THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

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Ohnt

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Ohnt » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:19 pm

yuppy wrote:
Ohnt wrote:
lawbug123 wrote:Is it me or does it feel like the outlines that are provided by themis are hard to read? I feel like they've re-written things such that they're so confusing and sometimes when I'm trying to review it, I read it, and then it just blanks out from my mind. I'm done with or at only 12% so then again, I'm also super behind :/



How do you guys not doze off? Reading a final review outline of torts and I'm dozing off so bad. Help on how to stay awake and motivated :roll: ...

Try caffeine, occasional cigar maybe...

Also, I found it easier to read from a screen, but the outline is difficult to read on the website. So I copied all the text and pasted in a word doc. Easier for me to read with my laptop on my lap. Also, sent as a kindle file to my kindle account, so I can easily read on my phone's kindle app.


Ok. Thanks )

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BlueLaw11

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby BlueLaw11 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:35 pm

This is broad, but has anyone come across a cheat sheet/compilation of when a deed/mortgage/etc. must be recorded? I feel like the half the MBE PQs hinge upon whether the deed was recorded, but the underlying subject matter (profit à prendres, for example) of these questions was not covered in Kramer's lectures

sproutz

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby sproutz » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Hey, longtime lurker on this thread, but finally broke down and made an account because of how damn isolating this whole experience is without people to commiserate with. I just hit 25% complete today, but I'm taking CA so I don't think any amount of prep will fully make me feel confident...

Also, fun fact about the Themis Community Property lecturer; he was found responsible for 12 or 15 allegations of sexual harassment and fired from UCLA: http://projects.dailycal.org/misconduct ... s-holm-37/

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby MRSP » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 pm

Ohnt wrote:
barprep2018 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:Above poster what bar exam? And have you gotten thru all the lectures?

I'm taking TX. I cannot read the outlines, I don't have the time for that.
Federal job, kids, husband, house and bar. I'm dying.


same hustle: hubs, toddler, pregnant and throwing up like crazy, moving to a new house in two weeks plus so much more going on. I feel you. We have thrice the struggle.


Same here @ husband, toddler & pregnant and sick! having a hard time staying up late to get this stuff done and am behind. how is your progress?

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BlueLaw11

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby BlueLaw11 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 am

sproutz wrote:Hey, longtime lurker on this thread, but finally broke down and made an account because of how damn isolating this whole experience is without people to commiserate with. I just hit 25% complete today, but I'm taking CA so I don't think any amount of prep will fully make me feel confident...

Also, fun fact about the Themis Community Property lecturer; he was found responsible for 12 or 15 allegations of sexual harassment and fired from UCLA: http://projects.dailycal.org/misconduct ... s-holm-37/


Hahaha oh man, not surprising at all. He comes across as so creepy and cringe-inducing in those lectures. Excellent find

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby abogado2018 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:26 am

BlueLaw11 wrote:
sproutz wrote:Hey, longtime lurker on this thread, but finally broke down and made an account because of how damn isolating this whole experience is without people to commiserate with. I just hit 25% complete today, but I'm taking CA so I don't think any amount of prep will fully make me feel confident...

Also, fun fact about the Themis Community Property lecturer; he was found responsible for 12 or 15 allegations of sexual harassment and fired from UCLA: http://projects.dailycal.org/misconduct ... s-holm-37/


Hahaha oh man, not surprising at all. He comes across as so creepy and cringe-inducing in those lectures. Excellent find


Just watching those videos made me borderline uncomfortable and I'm a guy

Ohnt

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Ohnt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:49 am

sproutz wrote:Hey, longtime lurker on this thread, but finally broke down and made an account because of how damn isolating this whole experience is without people to commiserate with. I just hit 25% complete today, but I'm taking CA so I don't think any amount of prep will fully make me feel confident...

Also, fun fact about the Themis Community Property lecturer; he was found responsible for 12 or 15 allegations of sexual harassment and fired from UCLA: http://projects.dailycal.org/misconduct ... s-holm-37/



Omg!!! Nearly had a heart attack! Thought it was my beloved Kramer!! Thank goodness it’s not him. Love him.

Ohnt

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Ohnt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:51 am

MRSP wrote:
Ohnt wrote:
barprep2018 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:Above poster what bar exam? And have you gotten thru all the lectures?

I'm taking TX. I cannot read the outlines, I don't have the time for that.
Federal job, kids, husband, house and bar. I'm dying.


same hustle: hubs, toddler, pregnant and throwing up like crazy, moving to a new house in two weeks plus so much more going on. I feel you. We have thrice the struggle.


Same here @ husband, toddler & pregnant and sick! having a hard time staying up late to get this stuff done and am behind. how is your progress?


Hmm crazy, still have loads to cover. Overwhelming!

Ohnt

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Ohnt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:56 am

Ohnt wrote:
MRSP wrote:
Ohnt wrote:
barprep2018 wrote:
Lawworld19 wrote:Above poster what bar exam? And have you gotten thru all the lectures?

I'm taking TX. I cannot read the outlines, I don't have the time for that.
Federal job, kids, husband, house and bar. I'm dying.


same hustle: hubs, toddler, pregnant and throwing up like crazy, moving to a new house in two weeks plus so much more going on. I feel you. We have thrice the struggle.


Same here @ husband, toddler & pregnant and sick! having a hard time staying up late to get this stuff done and am behind. how is your progress?


Hmm crazy, still have loads to cover. Overwhelming!


I work so hard just to understand some concepts only to see a 0.2% increase in my course progress. That thing never seems to go up. :cry:

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Neilt001

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Neilt001 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:18 am

yuppy wrote:
NotSkadden wrote:
Neilt001 wrote:
yuppy wrote:Hey. I'm taking the MBE, using Themis. I'm also working in the morning and have a family, so I try to cram in as much as I can in the limited time I have. I'm doing well on all of the practice tests (usually in the 80% range) and essays, but i feel like the reading takes way too long, and contains lots of unclear cut and pastes of the Restatement or statutory language, which is difficult to read and frustrating.

Due to my time constraints, I feel like skipping the reading and just doing lectures and tests. Any opinions on this? Will I get the info I need this way?


Hey, congrats on your strong results!

Yes, I think you can afford to skip the readings. I didn't once do the readings, and only did the lectures and tests, and I did well on the bar. I made my own notes from the lectures and studied those. The readings are just too much text, too thorough, and just too much info to bother memorizing.

Themis recommends doing the readings before the lectures so that you basically familiarize yourself with the subject matter and can hit the ground running for the lectures. it helps with memory and reinforces the lectures or whatever. Personally, I just didn't have time.

Anyway, you'll be fine!


I don’t see how you could skip the full outlines for each subject. I’m noticing that a significant amount of questions are coming from more nuanced rules that the lectures and lecture handouts just don’t cover, or gloss over.

It's true that there is more in the text than the lectures. But I often pick up more information from the practice questions than i originally picked up from the reading. I'll probably try without reading at least for torts, civ pro and con law which I more or less remember from school.


I think it definitely varies per person, but I learned better by skipping the readings, doing the lectures, making notes, and drilling questions. Obviously I got questions wrong but I would always make sure to understand why I got it wrong and write down the rule that I missed. There's no way I would remember everything from the readings, they took way too long and they overwhelmed me with info. I found I learned best by doing lots of practice. But everyone's different: some people like reading all the details from the beginning and memorizing them (though this is pretty foreign to me).

Oh and remember: it's minimum competency. There's nothing to be gained by knowing every nuance, and in my case, learning them all up front would have been detrimental to my overall study because they would overwhelm me. I just wanted to keep it simple. This isn't law school.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby ubebarstudying » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:59 am

BlueLaw11 wrote:
Ohnt wrote:Are we supposed to do the essays without looking anywhere? I did my first one on contracts yesterday under exam conditions: timed and no reference but was wondering. Please help!


Interested to hear others' thoughts on this too. It feels like a waste to do it closed book when we haven't had time to memorize the rules yet, but at the same time using notes defeats the purpose of simulating testing conditions.


Chapter 2 of the first essay writing workshop said this:
CHAPTER 2: ESSAY WRITING STRATEGIES A. Preparing for the Essay Exam • Practice! • Open book, untimed → open book, timed → closed book, timed • Read, outline and/or issue spot as many questions as possible to learn how the bar examiners like to test issues.

So if it was your first essay, I would not be too worried. I agree that since they are assigned after we have done the topic that it's probably more helpful to do them in exam conditions but you also need time to absorb the material and work with it/study it in the way that suits you best. I don't think there is a problem doing a few practice essays open book, but would do closed book/30 min for all graded ones and practice exams, but regular essay PQ's? I think you'll be fine doing the first one or two of a topic open book or open notes.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby ubebarstudying » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:03 pm

BlueLaw11 wrote:This is broad, but has anyone come across a cheat sheet/compilation of when a deed/mortgage/etc. must be recorded? I feel like the half the MBE PQs hinge upon whether the deed was recorded, but the underlying subject matter (profit à prendres, for example) of these questions was not covered in Kramer's lectures


Yeah I am not surprised to hear this because they have tested those increasingly over past years but unfortunately I do not have such a sheet :(

Ohnt

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Ohnt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:16 pm

ubebarstudying wrote:
BlueLaw11 wrote:
Ohnt wrote:Are we supposed to do the essays without looking anywhere? I did my first one on contracts yesterday under exam conditions: timed and no reference but was wondering. Please help!


Interested to hear others' thoughts on this too. It feels like a waste to do it closed book when we haven't had time to memorize the rules yet, but at the same time using notes defeats the purpose of simulating testing conditions.


Chapter 2 of the first essay writing workshop said this:
CHAPTER 2: ESSAY WRITING STRATEGIES A. Preparing for the Essay Exam • Practice! • Open book, untimed → open book, timed → closed book, timed • Read, outline and/or issue spot as many questions as possible to learn how the bar examiners like to test issues.

So if it was your first essay, I would not be too worried. I agree that since they are assigned after we have done the topic that it's probably more helpful to do them in exam conditions but you also need time to absorb the material and work with it/study it in the way that suits you best. I don't think there is a problem doing a few practice essays open book, but would do closed book/30 min for all graded ones and practice exams, but regular essay PQ's? I think you'll be fine doing the first one or two of a topic open book or open notes.



Doing all graded essays closed book.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby studying4bar » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:28 pm

So...I think I need to cut something out of the program or I am focusing on far too much detail which is resulting in wasted time. I'm at 25% as of right now, should be 26 by the end of the day. I am at 1.6% a day which is manageable but that is if I rely solely on themis for prep. I have been trying to make my own mini outlines and or visual aids but I find I spend so much time on Themis stuff that I am pretty shot by the time I get around to making my own materials/reviewing/doing extra practice (because property destroyed me). Any suggestions?

sproutz

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby sproutz » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:07 pm

studying4bar wrote:So...I think I need to cut something out of the program or I am focusing on far too much detail which is resulting in wasted time. I'm at 25% as of right now, should be 26 by the end of the day. I am at 1.6% a day which is manageable but that is if I rely solely on themis for prep. I have been trying to make my own mini outlines and or visual aids but I find I spend so much time on Themis stuff that I am pretty shot by the time I get around to making my own materials/reviewing/doing extra practice (because property destroyed me). Any suggestions?


In addition to not reading the big outline sections (I just skim them to get a sense of the key concepts), I have started saving time by outlining rather than writing out the practice essays. At first, I was spending about 2 hours on each one: one hour to write out the whole thing, and then one hour to review it and pick out the helpful rule statements. Now, I am spending max one hour on each one: 30 minutes to read and outline, 30 minutes to review the model answer and make a couple of notes.

I wonder what other people think of saving time here to try and get caught up. I figure getting through more essays in less depth is better than simulating exam conditions, but not getting to as many? Once I'm caught up, I can probably slow down again, but I'm also currently just spending all my time trying to keep my head above water with Themis tasks.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby CBlaw » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:26 pm

sproutz wrote:
studying4bar wrote:So...I think I need to cut something out of the program or I am focusing on far too much detail which is resulting in wasted time. I'm at 25% as of right now, should be 26 by the end of the day. I am at 1.6% a day which is manageable but that is if I rely solely on themis for prep. I have been trying to make my own mini outlines and or visual aids but I find I spend so much time on Themis stuff that I am pretty shot by the time I get around to making my own materials/reviewing/doing extra practice (because property destroyed me). Any suggestions?


In addition to not reading the big outline sections (I just skim them to get a sense of the key concepts), I have started saving time by outlining rather than writing out the practice essays. At first, I was spending about 2 hours on each one: one hour to write out the whole thing, and then one hour to review it and pick out the helpful rule statements. Now, I am spending max one hour on each one: 30 minutes to read and outline, 30 minutes to review the model answer and make a couple of notes.

I wonder what other people think of saving time here to try and get caught up. I figure getting through more essays in less depth is better than simulating exam conditions, but not getting to as many? Once I'm caught up, I can probably slow down again, but I'm also currently just spending all my time trying to keep my head above water with Themis tasks.


to be honest i do not see the point of doing the MEE essays. I mean you should know how to write an essay by now with 3 years of law school under your belt. In my opinion it seems people just lose points on essays because they are not spotting the issues not b/c they dont know how to write essays. I have basically stopped writing essays (MEE) and instead just issue spot. Thats how i save a bunch of time.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby airylef » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:58 pm

Wow, how are so many people pregnant and studying for the bar?! You're like superheroes! I can barely even handle the studying alone.

Calcrastinator

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Calcrastinator » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:53 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Calcrastinator wrote:As a California bar exam taker, I am at about 20-21% done with the course and my MBE overall is around a 58% but my essays have been scored at 65 and 75, which I am guessing is just at the passing score. So for me, I feel like my grader might be too lenient and I am concerned that everyone in California is getting 60.

You're going to write all the model answers this year.

Are you writing the graded essays timed and closed books? That's legit impressive.


I am a little behind the course schedule though. I am at 23% and am about to take the torts graded essay today. But yeah I have been taking them timed and without looking at anything. However, now that I am juggling with torts, remedies, and community property, I doubt I have the ability to remember things by heart anymore. I am definitely going to do worse on the torts one. Don't feel prepared. My strategy is helpful but not time efficient. I am watching the lectures and rewriting an outline with almost all the info from the lecture handouts but organizing it by major headings and subheadings. If anyone suggests a better way of studying let me know. My pace is definitely not going to allow me to hit above 90% completion.

lawbug123

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby lawbug123 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:54 pm

Yeah I have the same issues. I'm reading Themis outlines, especially property outlines on the last section on easements, real covenants, licenses, profits, etc. and I cannot for the life of me memorize the rules and requirement. What are you guys using as strategies to have this imprinted in your brains?

Calcrastinator

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Calcrastinator » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:06 pm

Anyone want to compile data on most reoccurring issues from each subject and highlight the issues that have come up maybe once or not at all so we can know which issues to actually memorize next month? I feel like memorizing every rule, element, exception is not realistic so we need to choose what will be tested or needs explaining if an essay comes up on that issue.

adil91

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby adil91 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:29 pm

Calcrastinator wrote:Anyone want to compile data on most reoccurring issues from each subject and highlight the issues that have come up maybe once or not at all so we can know which issues to actually memorize next month? I feel like memorizing every rule, element, exception is not realistic so we need to choose what will be tested or needs explaining if an essay comes up on that issue.


I think it's actually quite possible to memorize almost every rule for the MBE topics...at least that's my plan.

Ohnt

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Ohnt » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:54 pm

Calcrastinator wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
Calcrastinator wrote:As a California bar exam taker, I am at about 20-21% done with the course and my MBE overall is around a 58% but my essays have been scored at 65 and 75, which I am guessing is just at the passing score. So for me, I feel like my grader might be too lenient and I am concerned that everyone in California is getting 60.

You're going to write all the model answers this year.

Are you writing the graded essays timed and closed books? That's legit impressive.


I am a little behind the course schedule though. I am at 23% and am about to take the torts graded essay today. But yeah I have been taking them timed and without looking at anything. However, now that I am juggling with torts, remedies, and community property, I doubt I have the ability to remember things by heart anymore. I am definitely going to do worse on the torts one. Don't feel prepared. My strategy is helpful but not time efficient. I am watching the lectures and rewriting an outline with almost all the info from the lecture handouts but organizing it by major headings and subheadings. If anyone suggests a better way of studying let me know. My pace is definitely not going to allow me to hit above 90% completion.


Why 90% completion? Thought goal was 75%? Please share the info so I can readjust my objective.

Calcrastinator

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby Calcrastinator » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:01 pm

Ohnt wrote:
Calcrastinator wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
Calcrastinator wrote:As a California bar exam taker, I am at about 20-21% done with the course and my MBE overall is around a 58% but my essays have been scored at 65 and 75, which I am guessing is just at the passing score. So for me, I feel like my grader might be too lenient and I am concerned that everyone in California is getting 60.

You're going to write all the model answers this year.

Are you writing the graded essays timed and closed books? That's legit impressive.


I am a little behind the course schedule though. I am at 23% and am about to take the torts graded essay today. But yeah I have been taking them timed and without looking at anything. However, now that I am juggling with torts, remedies, and community property, I doubt I have the ability to remember things by heart anymore. I am definitely going to do worse on the torts one. Don't feel prepared. My strategy is helpful but not time efficient. I am watching the lectures and rewriting an outline with almost all the info from the lecture handouts but organizing it by major headings and subheadings. If anyone suggests a better way of studying let me know. My pace is definitely not going to allow me to hit above 90% completion.


Why 90% completion? Thought goal was 75%? Please share the info so I can readjust my objective.


Well essentially you want to do at least 75% but your odds of passing go up even more than the average Themis California test taker if you can manage to do 80%, 85%, or even 100%. I thought it was doable at first, but I learned that I am not that sharp and need extra time to let things sink in. It depends on what works best for you and if you gain more value just going through the course or if going faster will harm you. Some people have failed after doing 100% of the course and some people have passed doing less than 75%. It just depends on the person and the ability to retain info and learn the material at the pace that works best for you.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby jetsetter2000 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:04 pm

adil91 wrote:
Calcrastinator wrote:Anyone want to compile data on most reoccurring issues from each subject and highlight the issues that have come up maybe once or not at all so we can know which issues to actually memorize next month? I feel like memorizing every rule, element, exception is not realistic so we need to choose what will be tested or needs explaining if an essay comes up on that issue.


I think it's actually quite possible to memorize almost every rule for the MBE topics...at least that's my plan.


They sometimes say this. For example, I found have sworn Tucker said 50% of the torts questions were negligence.

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Re: THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION

Postby CALTEX » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:53 am

Ohnt wrote:
sproutz wrote:Hey, longtime lurker on this thread, but finally broke down and made an account because of how damn isolating this whole experience is without people to commiserate with. I just hit 25% complete today, but I'm taking CA so I don't think any amount of prep will fully make me feel confident...

Also, fun fact about the Themis Community Property lecturer; he was found responsible for 12 or 15 allegations of sexual harassment and fired from UCLA: http://projects.dailycal.org/misconduct ... s-holm-37/



Omg!!! Nearly had a heart attack! Thought it was my beloved Kramer!! Thank goodness it’s not him. Love him.


Yikes. When I was in law school, my crazy Evidence professor married a 2L gal in his class. It was quite the scandal!



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