MBE & Tutor suggestions

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JDlaw17

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MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby JDlaw17 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:07 pm

Hello everyone!

I'm new to the forum. Sadly, I just received my results from Feb 2018 Mississippi exam and failed AGAIN! It's the MBE that is destroying my grade. I failed the July 2017 by 6.7 points and the Feb 2018 by 9.3. My MBE fell from 119 to 116.7. Time management is killing me,also. Both exams I ran out of time, so I bubbled in 10-15 MC questions without even reading the questions. 1.8 minutes to answer lengthy questions is eating up my time. By the time I read these questions and answers (halfway comprehend them) I have wasted 4-5 minutes. I have GOT to come up with "Plan B" for the July 2018 exam.

For the July 2017 exam I used Barbri. I was not happy with Barbri. I felt like they did not prepare me for the MBE.

For the Feb 2018 exam I used Adaptibar, Strategies & Tactics, & JD Advising MBE Guide.

I want the July 2018 exam to be my LAST bar exam. WHAT should I do to pass this exam & improve my MBE grade? I'm contemplating a tutor now. I'm so upset I've failed this exam 2 times. Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, etc will be GREATLY appreciated!!! Thanks!

UKATTORNEYUSA

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby UKATTORNEYUSA » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:56 pm

What was your score for Barbri simulated exam? and how many bar Barbri MBE practice questions did you do?

JDlaw17

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby JDlaw17 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:15 pm

The Barbri simulated exam grade was an 85! Aweful!

I struggle with one of two things: (1) I have to race through the questions and answers where I comprehend nothing, hence the reason I made an 85 (Barbri); or (2) I attempt to do well and wind up wasting valuable time "slowing down" to comprehend what the question is asking, etc. I'm truly concerned I might not get this bar exam / MBE behind me.

My Mississippi essays have been strong (140-150) or passable, as well as my MEE & MPT (130-140) which leads me to believe I have the knowledge of the law, but I can't put this knowledge with questions in 1.8 minutes. :(

I don't remember the actual number of Barbri MC, but I completed over 75% of the course. I didn't finish some of their essays.

I completed 100% of Adaptibar.

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SilvermanBarPrep

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:44 pm

One of the main difficulties of the MBE is the amount of material tested. When studying, it's a really good idea to try and spot patterns within any given subject as to the questions you're answering incorrectly. In other words, note the topic that each question was testing. When you notice yourself getting multiple questions wrong on the Parol Evidence Rule (for example) go back to the outline to further study the concept. You've got to study smart and not just study hard; one trap people sometimes fall into is that they have a set number of questions they intend to get through prior to the exam, and the goal becomes getting through them rather than understanding them.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:29 am

What were your Adaptibar stats?

Anything below 70% correct at 2000+ questions (75% to 80% correct for your last 350 questions) is danger zone for failing IMHO.

b290

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby b290 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:11 am

JDlaw17 wrote:The Barbri simulated exam grade was an 85! Aweful!

I struggle with one of two things: (1) I have to race through the questions and answers where I comprehend nothing, hence the reason I made an 85 (Barbri); or (2) I attempt to do well and wind up wasting valuable time "slowing down" to comprehend what the question is asking, etc. I'm truly concerned I might not get this bar exam / MBE behind me.

My Mississippi essays have been strong (140-150) or passable, as well as my MEE & MPT (130-140) which leads me to believe I have the knowledge of the law, but I can't put this knowledge with questions in 1.8 minutes. :(

I don't remember the actual number of Barbri MC, but I completed over 75% of the course. I didn't finish some of their essays.

I completed 100% of Adaptibar.

Sounds like you have fundamental MBE time management issues. 120 means you're just above 50% right raw. You need really good essay score (I'm talking near top answer for your state) to pass with that. Also, I suspect that past performance, combined with normal bar exam stress and time management issues are combining to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. You could do Adaptibar again (especially since it's really cheap for retakers), except you want to look a lot more at your stats. Whatever you program you decide on using, get one that uses real questions and keeps track of your time per question.

A problem with the proscribed 1.8 minutes/question is that is only possible if you don't get up at all ( i.e. doing it in one sitting). Even if you factor a break or two, you maximum is really 1.75 minutes (1:45) per question. Encountering longer questions means you're easily going over 2 minutes, taking away from questions you should be getting right. Your goal really is to minimize the amount of time spent on easier questions, and saving that time for harder questions. That could be done in a variety of ways, reading faster, reading the call of the question first, etc.

First, take a set of questions untimed. See how long it takes to finish them - even though it's untimed, try to finish as soon as possible. Also note how many you got right. Then you'll know how much you'll need to improve on. You'll want to review your weaker areas as well.

A recommendation (especially once you've started your prep) I know because it helped with me - try to get into the mindset of doing a certain number of questions at a time (I chose 20). It could give you a real target to shoot for and will come in handy for test day. According to the proscribed rate, 20 questions must be completed in 36 minutes. even if you can complete those in 35 minutes, that's 5 extra minutes during the exam for a 100 question session (34 minutes = 10 extra minutes, etc.). You can use for going over questions, getting up, doing what ever during the exam. That can also combat against fatigue (another thing that costs you points).

Over time, you'll improve. Just keep at it.

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:One of the main difficulties of the MBE is the amount of material tested. When studying, it's a really good idea to try and spot patterns within any given subject as to the questions you're answering incorrectly. In other words, note the topic that each question was testing. When you notice yourself getting multiple questions wrong on the Parol Evidence Rule (for example) go back to the outline to further study the concept. You've got to study smart and not just study hard; one trap people sometimes fall into is that they have a set number of questions they intend to get through prior to the exam, and the goal becomes getting through them rather than understanding them.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

True, although you do have a set number you'll want to complete - 200 :lol:

But you also need good time management with essays and the MPT. If you're getting good/decent written scores (which would require much of the same information) but bad MBE scores, the problem may lie in how one is taking the MBE.

Your point with patterns is also a good one, and can save time. Once one does enough questions, the patterns become apparent, and less time will be spent on those types.

My $.02

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:35 am

I agree with b290. Focus on your timing. And forget that 1.8 minute crap. If you stick to that rule, you will finish with no time left. I remember in the AM session for the MBE, I finished with maybe 5 seconds left. It stressed me out. Strangely, I finished the PM session with 45+ minutes left. That made me nervous as hell too.

Anyhow, my study strategy was to do the questions as quickly as possible, and then compare my time to the national average listed on Adaptibar. There are numerous "easy" and "semi-difficult" questions that can be answered in under 1 minute. You need to make sure to answer those questions quickly. Do not give yourself the luxury of using up all 1.8 minutes for those types of questions. You'll need to save the extra time for the harder questions, bathroom breaks, etc.

b290

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby b290 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:05 am

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:... Focus on your timing. And forget that 1.8 minute crap. If you stick to that rule, you will finish with no time left. I remember in the AM session for the MBE, I finished with maybe 5 seconds left. It stressed me out. Strangely, I finished the PM session with 45+ minutes left. That made me nervous as hell too.

Anyhow, my study strategy was to do the questions as quickly as possible, and then compare my time to the national average listed on Adaptibar. There are numerous "easy" and "semi-difficult" questions that can be answered in under 1 minute. You need to make sure to answer those questions quickly. Do not give yourself the luxury of using up all 1.8 minutes for those types of questions. You'll need to save the extra time for the harder questions, bathroom breaks, etc.

That's a good idea. If you do enough easy and semi-difficult ones, you'll also see the patterns. I think Con Law (minus 1A Qs) I was averaging at about 1:04 min/question on Adaptibar, and I only got near the 1.8 mins for Civ Pro and the hard ones. On exam day, it didn't matter anyway, as I had several minutes for each of those :lol:

Adaptibar also has graphs & stats showing your optimal time, and how much you get right/wrong for as per similar times.

FinallyPassedTheBar, congrats on passing! 8)

My $.02

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anandamide

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby anandamide » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:35 pm

My heart is with you. That sucks. I, too, have failed 2x....along with my husband. We actually decided to take a different approach this time.

We used David Goldman, https://www.passyourbarexam.com/, he actually helped my hubby pass VIRGINIA. I am waiting on DC results.

In the past, we used Drew Novins for the MBE, he, too, was also very good. Good luck~ :D

JDlaw17

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby JDlaw17 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:20 pm

Thank you ALL so much for the replies.

Knowing all of the time, effort and money I have invested into this . . . then seeing two FAIL's by my exam number has been very frustrating, to say the least. I'm not a quitter, by no means, but it has really upset me that I keep struggling with this MBE.

It sounds like one of the first things i need to do, at this point, is to get Adaptibar (again) and start working on my timing.

As far as a tutor, does anyone recommend this? Any particular company? Just looking at what's out there...some are ranging from $500-$2,500. :shock:

JDlaw17

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby JDlaw17 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:28 pm

anandamide wrote:My heart is with you. That sucks. I, too, have failed 2x....along with my husband. We actually decided to take a different approach this time.

We used David Goldman, https://www.passyourbarexam.com/, he actually helped my hubby pass VIRGINIA. I am waiting on DC results.


In the past, we used Drew Novins for the MBE, he, too, was also very good. Good luck~ :D


It does suck! I changed my first approach--I completely dropped Barbri. I felt better on the second exam (Feb 2018) than the first, but actually scored lower. The MBE is what I can't pass--I'm now considering a tutor.

JDlaw17

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby JDlaw17 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:35 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:What were your Adaptibar stats?

Anything below 70% correct at 2000+ questions (75% to 80% correct for your last 350 questions) is danger zone for failing IMHO.




Before the exam, a majority of my subjects were between 65-69%. Yes, some were 70+%, but K was always my lowest grade--it was closer to 60%. Maybe I've been going about the entire study plan the wrong way. So frustrating!

takeonbarexam

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby takeonbarexam » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:00 pm

You're already pretty self aware. It sounds like you know you need to boost your knowledge and application of the rules. If you know your rules well and worked through 100% of Adaptibar, then you should be able to complete the MBEs with time to spare. That you're struggling with timing may mean that you need to sit with the law more and strengthen your memory and ability to quickly apply and reason through to the correct answer. It sounds silly, but you may need to learn how to learn. You can't just listen to outlines, read and re-read outlines.

Michele
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15+year Bar Exam Coach and 10-year Legal Writing Law Prof

L_William_W

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby L_William_W » Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:16 pm

JDlaw17 wrote:Hello everyone!

I'm new to the forum. Sadly, I just received my results from Feb 2018 Mississippi exam and failed AGAIN! It's the MBE that is destroying my grade. I failed the July 2017 by 6.7 points and the Feb 2018 by 9.3. My MBE fell from 119 to 116.7. Time management is killing me,also. Both exams I ran out of time, so I bubbled in 10-15 MC questions without even reading the questions. 1.8 minutes to answer lengthy questions is eating up my time. By the time I read these questions and answers (halfway comprehend them) I have wasted 4-5 minutes. I have GOT to come up with "Plan B" for the July 2018 exam.

For the July 2017 exam I used Barbri. I was not happy with Barbri. I felt like they did not prepare me for the MBE.

For the Feb 2018 exam I used Adaptibar, Strategies & Tactics, & JD Advising MBE Guide.

I want the July 2018 exam to be my LAST bar exam. WHAT should I do to pass this exam & improve my MBE grade? I'm contemplating a tutor now. I'm so upset I've failed this exam 2 times. Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions, etc will be GREATLY appreciated!!! Thanks!


The MBE isn't about knowing the material. It's about knowing how to play the game. I took the bar six times in two states:

February 2014 (NY)- got sick during exam, didn't finish

July 2014 (NY,NJ)- failed, 118.6 MBE

February 2015 (NJ)- failed, 123.2 MBE

July 2015 (NJ)- passed, 130.2 MBE

July 2017 (NY)- passed, 149.3 MBE

You're probably wondering how the hell my MBE increased that much. During my first few attempts, I simply did a shitload of questions. I also wasted money on Adaptibar. I then realized that the MBE is like a chess game and it can be beaten. With that in mind, I decided to get books that helped me to break down each type of question that will appear on the MBE

https://www.amazon.com/MBE-Bootcamp-Torts-Mbe/dp/0735597375/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524589692&sr=1-2&keywords=emanuel+mbe+bootcamp

https://www.amazon.com/MBE-Bootcamp-Evidence-Mbe/dp/0735597405/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524589692&sr=1-4&keywords=emanuel+mbe+bootcamp

https://www.amazon.com/MBE-Bootcamp-Criminal-Law-Procedure/dp/0735597340/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524589692&sr=1-6&keywords=emanuel+mbe+bootcamp

https://www.amazon.com/MBE-Bootcamp-Contracts-Mbe/dp/0735597367/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524589692&sr=1-8&keywords=emanuel+mbe+bootcamp

https://www.amazon.com/MBE-Bootcamp-Property-Mbe/dp/0735597391/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524589692&sr=1-10&keywords=emanuel+mbe+bootcamp

https://www.amazon.com/MBE-Bootcamp-Constitutional-Law-Mbe/dp/0735597383/ref=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524589692&sr=1-11&keywords=emanuel+mbe+bootcamp

After mastering the strategies in these books, I practiced them on two books with MBE's that are as difficult as the actual exam:

https://www.amazon.com/Strategies-Tactics-Multistate-Emmanuel-Emanuel/dp/1454873140/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

https://www.amazon.com/Kaplan-Practice-Questions-Answers-PMBR5090G/dp/1506211496/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1524590030&sr=1-1&keywords=kaplan+mbe

Strategies and Tactics isn't as hard as the bar exam MBE's, but it's a nice warmup:

https://www.amazon.com/Kaplan-Practice-Questions-Answers-PMBR5090G/dp/1506211496/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Forget that Barbri and Adaptibar shit. Use the materials that I posted and I can all but guarantee that your MBE will increase by at least 10 points.

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Re: MBE & Tutor suggestions

Postby verejacob » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:38 pm

Foreign educated. Graduated law school 15 years back. Passed Feb 2018 NY bar exam by 13 points. Failed Feb 2017 (took exam on a whim) by 36 points and July 2017 by 10 points. Alisa Geller (www.hitthehighbar.com) was my bar tutor and she's instrumental for my success. She helped me learn how to approach and answer the MPTs and essays the proper way, as well as helped me gain confidence with MBE. I had very limited time to study (due to hectic work schedule and family responsibilities). Alisa helped me create my own study schedule, and not only helped clarify complex legal rules, such as RAP, but also helped me get into the habit of answering MBE questions correctly and on time.

What I really liked about Alisa is that not only she's knowledgeable but also she has a keen understanding of what my weaknesses were and helped turn them into my strengths. She was very patient with me and never kicked up a fuss or charged me overtime even though several of my one-on-one one hour study sessions with her often went beyond one hour. When I had signed up with Barbri, Barbri also threw in 5 hours session with a Barbri tutor. However, I was very disappointed with the Barbri tutor, who was more interested in bragging about his experience in the law profession and was constantly checking (and letting me know) the time, and would abruptly stop tutoring as soon as the time was up. With Alisa, that was never the case - she always gave priority to my interest and made sure that I had understood the subject well and encouraged me to ask questions, even when the time was up.

If you're foreign educated and/or a retaker like me, I would strongly suggest that you give her a try. She tutored me in person but I think she tutors via Skype too, if you're not residing in NY/NJ.

I also took Barbri but never could keep pace with the program. What worked for me well was making own outlines (from Barbri lectures and Conviser), practising MBE midterm and refresher and going through Barbri MEE and MPT practice books to get a good understanding of issue spotting. Bought S&T as well as Critical Pass but never found time to use them.



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