MBE February 2018 Reactions..

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LSATobsessed

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby LSATobsessed » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:20 am

I'm still just trying to understand whether the low passing rates in those states means the curve will be more generous in other states like Florida. Is there any way to tell?

rkreymer

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby rkreymer » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:56 am

LSATobsessed wrote:I'm still just trying to understand whether the low passing rates in those states means the curve will be more generous in other states like Florida. Is there any way to tell?



I thought the curve is based on individual jurisdictions. I might be wrong....

Youtalkingtome

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby Youtalkingtome » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:15 pm

LSATobsessed wrote:I'm still just trying to understand whether the low passing rates in those states means the curve will be more generous in other states like Florida. Is there any way to tell?


My understanding is the MBE scores are scaled by NCBE, and at least in Florida, the MBE scaled score is not further modified by the state (Florida). My further understanding is Florida applies a similar, but not exact, scaling to the Florida portion of the exam.

The two states I mentioned in yesterday's post that have already reported Feb 2018 BEX passing rates (Oklahoma and West Virginia) did not break down the scores for the MBE and state portions. It looks like Oklahoma and West Virginia count the MBE score as half of their overall BEX scores. It is too early to tell if the MBE scores had a correlation to the unusually low pass rates in those two states. As more states begin releasing scores, the effect of the MBE on the overall pass rates will become clearer.

At this point, I am only speculating that passing rates will be at an all time low and that the MBE scores will have had a large impact on those low pass rates. I am also basing my speculation on the prior posts on this forum indicating that many exam takers felt this (Feb 2018) MBE was quite difficult as compared to practice questions that many of us had in various bar prep courses, including Adaptibar, Barbri and Themis. I felt the same way. I used Barbri and did some Adaptibar as well. I did well in practice questions and scored well in the practice exams. I felt confident going into MBE. But after the morning session of MBE, I felt somewhat blown away (as did others who posted in this forum). There were a few people who posted that the MBE was not difficult, but those were certainly not reflective of the majority of posts that I read.

All that said, my belief today is that the Feb 2018 MBE was more difficult than prior MBE administrations and that "scaling" will not be enough to overcome the the extra-high difficulty. From my research, scaling has never varied far outside of a traditional range. It is no secret that the ABA and others have expressed concern over what they believe law schools have been doing in recent years to keep seats full and tuition dollars flowing: Accepting students with lower LSAT scores. Could it be that a dramatic drop in passing rates is designed to shock the system?

pfunkera

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:30 am

Youtalkingtome wrote:
LSATobsessed wrote:I'm still just trying to understand whether the low passing rates in those states means the curve will be more generous in other states like Florida. Is there any way to tell?


My understanding is the MBE scores are scaled by NCBE, and at least in Florida, the MBE scaled score is not further modified by the state (Florida). My further understanding is Florida applies a similar, but not exact, scaling to the Florida portion of the exam.

The two states I mentioned in yesterday's post that have already reported Feb 2018 BEX passing rates (Oklahoma and West Virginia) did not break down the scores for the MBE and state portions. It looks like Oklahoma and West Virginia count the MBE score as half of their overall BEX scores. It is too early to tell if the MBE scores had a correlation to the unusually low pass rates in those two states. As more states begin releasing scores, the effect of the MBE on the overall pass rates will become clearer.

At this point, I am only speculating that passing rates will be at an all time low and that the MBE scores will have had a large impact on those low pass rates. I am also basing my speculation on the prior posts on this forum indicating that many exam takers felt this (Feb 2018) MBE was quite difficult as compared to practice questions that many of us had in various bar prep courses, including Adaptibar, Barbri and Themis. I felt the same way. I used Barbri and did some Adaptibar as well. I did well in practice questions and scored well in the practice exams. I felt confident going into MBE. But after the morning session of MBE, I felt somewhat blown away (as did others who posted in this forum). There were a few people who posted that the MBE was not difficult, but those were certainly not reflective of the majority of posts that I read.

All that said, my belief today is that the Feb 2018 MBE was more difficult than prior MBE administrations and that "scaling" will not be enough to overcome the the extra-high difficulty. From my research, scaling has never varied far outside of a traditional range. It is no secret that the ABA and others have expressed concern over what they believe law schools have been doing in recent years to keep seats full and tuition dollars flowing: Accepting students with lower LSAT scores. Could it be that a dramatic drop in passing rates is designed to shock the system?


Are you comparing February results to February results? For WV, the passing rate was higher this year than the two previous winter exams. The February exam passing rate in all jurisdictions will be considerably lower than the July exam because more retakers and non-traditional students are taking it. It was my first time to take the WV exam this past February (part-time student), and I saw many people that had taken the July exam (that was uncomfortable). The one guy near my seat took it 4 time previously and two other people were barred in other states, but their firms wanted them to pass a UBE state to get into more jurisdictions. At least one of the people barred in another state failed based on the seat number results.

I doubt the MBE was any harder than previous years, but I will receive my actual scores this week to see how my actual MBE score compares to the practice scores. I had a 128 Barbri midterm, 74 Barbri refresher, and >70% Adaptibar. My goal was to be over 140 but I figured those scores will translate to around 145-155 actual MBE score. I will post my actual score when I get it. I stressed about all the "hard" MBE questions the last few weeks, but there are going to be a bunch of "hard" questions with 200 total questions. We are likely forgetting all the easy ones that required little to no thought. I know those Barbri question sets rarely had a no brainer questions whereas the actual MBE had a bunch of them.

I stressed hard the last week waiting for results, but wish I hadn't. There is nothing you can do at this point so do whatever you can to take your mind off thinking about the results. :D

Youtalkingtome

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby Youtalkingtome » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:39 am

As to WV score pass rate ranges i mentioned, they were from exams administered over the the last few years and did include Feb and July scores. Presumably, the Feb pass rates were the ones in the low 60s and July were in the low 70s. But the just-released Feb 32018 scores indicate a pass rate of 57%, which is well below the low end of the normal range over the last few year, at least in my comparison analysis. But I certainly could be wrong. Just my observation.

verejacob

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby verejacob » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:50 am

I'm not quite sure why many Feb bar exam takers are saying the MBE was a nightmare. I took July 2017 NY bar exam and failed by 10 points. At that time, I found myself struggling against time during the MBE portion (both AM and PM). I ended up scoring 135 in MBE. This Feb, I finished both AM and PM MBE with 10-15 mins remaining. I'll get to know after about a couple of weeks if I scored better in MBE this time, but overall I didn't feel that MBE was any way more difficult than last time.

pfunkera

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:13 am

Youtalkingtome wrote:As to WV score pass rate ranges i mentioned, they were from exams administered over the the last few years and did include Feb and July scores. Presumably, the Feb pass rates were the ones in the low 60s and July were in the low 70s. But the just-released Feb 32018 scores indicate a pass rate of 57%, which is well below the low end of the normal range over the last few year, at least in my comparison analysis. But I certainly could be wrong. Just my observation.


Here are the Feb pass rate for WV for the last three years.

2018 - 57%
http://www.courtswv.gov/legal-community/Bd-of-Law/bar-results.html

2017 - 51%
https://web.archive.org/web/20170401051136/http://www.courtswv.gov/legal-community/Bd-of-Law/bar-results.html

2016 - 51%
https://web.archive.org/web/20160408042426/http://www.courtswv.gov/legal-community/Bd-of-Law/bar-results.html

pech71

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby pech71 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:58 am

I took the exam for first time in February as I was an evening student who graduated a semester early after taking summer classes every year. I don't know if the MBE was difficult or easy. I also finished with 15 to spare on each AM and PM. I felt the AM section was more difficult with what seemed like stranger fact patterns and more con law / crim pro fact patterns based on cases (some of which I remembered).

Honestly, the questions felt more straight forward than Barbri but more difficult than the OPE 1-4 sets. As many have mentioned, you probably only remember the difficult questions and stress over them. I know I am still thinking about 3-4 questions that even after looking them up I am 50/50! lol

I don't find out until May 4 and am pretty nervous. I studied my butt off and did my best. You just can't know how you did! I will say that the MPT and 6 essays were realllly mentally draining. I remember being legit mentally fatigued at the end. The MPT was very very very long with multiple multi-part rules. And, the civ pro question out of left field sucked as I had every single rule memorized including ESI discovery / sanctions but not attorney misconduct since I believed that was covered on the MPRE (oops) as well as the property question was a little tough to grasp whereas the other 4 topics were very straight forward rules. At the end of the MBE day I felt more relaxed. This is probably because I did about 3000 MBE questions and only memorized black letter law for essays.

The low pass rates / MBE scores are making me very nervous though. Still about 25 days left until I find out and just praying. I envy all of you who passed!! big congrats.

Youtalkingtome

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby Youtalkingtome » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:25 pm

Thank you pfunkera for providing the specific information! I stand corrected!

pfunkera

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:02 pm

Youtalkingtome wrote:Thank you pfunkera for providing the specific information! I stand corrected!


no problem, I know how stressful waiting for results can be and if another state comes back bad it adds to the fear :)

overthebar

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby overthebar » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:29 pm

Fellow lawyers,

I wanted to share this thought to those out there who are feeling the same way as me.

I took the FL bar exam this February. I studied very hard but I am not sure how well “I think” I did—I did not pass the July 2017 FL bar so yes, I am a “Retaker”. Like many of you, I’ve been reading posts about the February 2018 bar exams from several threads. Honestly, after reading peoples thoughts and worries about whether they passed or not, it has caused me more anxiety and depression than I already have.
I am currently waiting for the Florida bar results to come out on Monday, April 16th.

We have to remind ourselves that obsessing over trying to figure out the numbers and what the MBE national average is, is NOT going to change our individual scores. What’s DONE is DONE!

One more thing that I recently realized . . . NOTHING on these threads, Google, YouTube etc. could have helped me cope with the emotionally draining news I received last year after finding out that I didn't pass.

A few things to remember:
1) The bar exam tests us on our ability to take tests, not on our ability to practice law.
2) We are so much more than our careers and we should not give this test so much power over our entire lives.
3) Life keeps going whether we pass or fall short from passing this stupid test.

-OVERTHEBAR

pfunkera

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:51 pm

I got my scores today for WV (UBE). 161 MBE and 160 MEE/MPT(WV did not break the essays down). Just to repeat in case it helps anyone else; I had 128 Barbri midterm, 74 refresher, and >70% AdaptiBar. I did not feel like I failed the MBE but I was not as confident as I had hoped I would be walking out. I had to make an educated guess on a bunch of the MBE questions, and I had a horrible time concentrating in the morning session. So all my worrying and nervousness about possibly failing last week was completely unjustified. :D Relax, and let the scores come to you!

Also, that 140 MBE/Autopass thread on here basically streamlined my study process to concentrate on the MBE (UBE state). I worked full time other than a week off before the bar exam plus I started late because I took the patent bar exam 2 months before the regular bar exam. That 140 MBE/Autopass thread plus Adaptibar gave me the confidence and means to create a study plan to pass this thing. However, for those that are taking the July exam do what is best for you. I know what works for me so I skipped most of the MEE and MPT essay prep in the Barbri PSP and concentrated on the MBE portion.

TheJuryMustDie

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:53 pm

pfunkera wrote:I got my scores today for WV (UBE). 161 MBE and 160 MEE/MPT(WV did not break the essays down). Just to repeat in case it helps anyone else; I had 128 Barbri midterm, 74 refresher, and >70% AdaptiBar. I did not feel like I failed the MBE but I was not as confident as I had hoped I would be walking out. I had to make an educated guess on a bunch of the MBE questions, and I had a horrible time concentrating in the morning session. So all my worrying and nervousness about possibly failing last week was completely unjustified. :D Relax, and let the scores come to you!

Also, that 140 MBE/Autopass thread on here basically streamlined my study process to concentrate on the MBE (UBE state). I worked full time other than a week off before the bar exam plus I started late because I took the patent bar exam 2 months before the regular bar exam. That 140 MBE/Autopass thread plus Adaptibar gave me the confidence and means to create a study plan to pass this thing. However, for those that are taking the July exam do what is best for you. I know what works for me so I skipped most of the MEE and MPT essay prep in the Barbri PSP and concentrated on the MBE portion.


Wow! That's a decent MBE score there! Many congratulations!

iplaw4me2

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby iplaw4me2 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:12 pm

Kansas released results were this morning. 50% pass rate (or 50% failure if you're feeling negative).

I'm very happy to have passed, but don't get the MBE / writing breakdown until a few days from now. I REALLY thought I failed the MBE because it seemed much harder than the Themis practice questions where I was scoring 60-65% depending on the subject.

http://www.kscourts.org/appellate-clerk ... esults.pdf

pfunkera

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby pfunkera » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:47 pm

iplaw4me2 wrote:Kansas released results were this morning. 50% pass rate (or 50% failure if you're feeling negative).

I'm very happy to have passed, but don't get the MBE / writing breakdown until a few days from now. I REALLY thought I failed the MBE because it seemed much harder than the Themis practice questions where I was scoring 60-65% depending on the subject.

http://www.kscourts.org/appellate-clerk ... esults.pdf


congrats!

b290

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby b290 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:55 pm

pfunkera wrote:I got my scores today for WV (UBE). 161 MBE and 160 MEE/MPT(WV did not break the essays down). Just to repeat in case it helps anyone else; I had 128 Barbri midterm, 74 refresher, and >70% AdaptiBar. I did not feel like I failed the MBE but I was not as confident as I had hoped I would be walking out. I had to make an educated guess on a bunch of the MBE questions, and I had a horrible time concentrating in the morning session. So all my worrying and nervousness about possibly failing last week was completely unjustified. :D Relax, and let the scores come to you!

Also, that 140 MBE/Autopass thread on here basically streamlined my study process to concentrate on the MBE (UBE state). I worked full time other than a week off before the bar exam plus I started late because I took the patent bar exam 2 months before the regular bar exam. That 140 MBE/Autopass thread plus Adaptibar gave me the confidence and means to create a study plan to pass this thing. However, for those that are taking the July exam do what is best for you. I know what works for me so I skipped most of the MEE and MPT essay prep in the Barbri PSP and concentrated on the MBE portion.
+1

Here's the thread:

viewtopic.php?t=210339

and its successor (it was that good):

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=260115

Huge confidence boost. For those that have to take it over - it's a doable exam. Overthebar nailed it:

overthebar wrote::
1) The bar exam tests us on our ability to take tests, not on our ability to practice law.


Congrats pfunkera, iplaw4me2, and all others who've passed. To all others, your time will come :D

My $.02

b290

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby b290 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:24 pm

Thanks to PA, we know what Feb 2018’s MBE mean was - 132.775 :shock:

http://www.pabarexam.org/pdf/statistics ... /f2018.pdf

For perspective, Feb 2017 was the record low (at 134.060). Idk what they’re doing at the NCBE, but this is NOT looking good. :(

With lower pass rates so far (even for Feb), and 26 different bar exams (25 + UBE), the common denominator is the MBE. It’s now apparent that if you bomb it, your chances of passing go with it. That’s definitely the case if you’re in a UBE state (50% MBE). Even if your state’s exam is 40% MBE you’re not safe. At this rate, 145 is the new “150+” :shock:

This is especially relevant for those retaking/studying for the 1st time. Plan you’re study time accordingly.

My $.02

b290

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby b290 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 pm

plan your*

Ugh, can we bring back the post editing function please?

My $.02

WG2C

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby WG2C » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:21 pm

b290 wrote:Thanks to PA, we know what Feb 2018’s MBE mean was - 132.775 :shock:

http://www.pabarexam.org/pdf/statistics ... /f2018.pdf

For perspective, Feb 2017 was the record low (at 134.060). Idk what they’re doing at the NCBE, but this is NOT looking good. :(

With lower pass rates so far (even for Feb), and 26 different bar exams (25 + UBE), the common denominator is the MBE. It’s now apparent that if you bomb it, your chances of passing go with it. That’s definitely the case if you’re in a UBE state (50% MBE). Even if your state’s exam is 40% MBE you’re not safe. At this rate, 145 is the new “150+” :shock:

This is especially relevant for those retaking/studying for the 1st time. Plan you’re study time accordingly.

My $.02


TN had a 131 MBE mean. The essays are scaled to this mean, so an average score for essays would put you at a 131 which is 4 points below the cut score. I scored a 140 MBE and it wasn't enough. To put in perspective my essays raw scores were 6 points higher than July but when scaled to that 131 the scaled essay score was 4 points lower.

MissT

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby MissT » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:49 pm

b290 wrote:Thanks to PA, we know what Feb 2018’s MBE mean was - 132.775 :shock:

http://www.pabarexam.org/pdf/statistics ... /f2018.pdf

For perspective, Feb 2017 was the record low (at 134.060). Idk what they’re doing at the NCBE, but this is NOT looking good. :(

With lower pass rates so far (even for Feb), and 26 different bar exams (25 + UBE), the common denominator is the MBE. It’s now apparent that if you bomb it, your chances of passing go with it. That’s definitely the case if you’re in a UBE state (50% MBE). Even if your state’s exam is 40% MBE you’re not safe. At this rate, 145 is the new “150+” :shock:

This is especially relevant for those retaking/studying for the 1st time. Plan you’re study time accordingly.

My $.02


Ouch. Perhaps the addition of Civ Pro to the MBE is responsible for the decline in scores? More material to study, less time to study the other subjects.

b290

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby b290 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:35 pm

WG2C wrote:TN had a 131 MBE mean. The essays are scaled to this mean, so an average score for essays would put you at a 131 which is 4 points below the cut score. I scored a 140 MBE and it wasn't enough. To put in perspective my essays raw scores were 6 points higher than July but when scaled to that 131 the scaled essay score was 4 points lower.

Not good. You’re almost getting punished for other people’s performance - like a negative curve :x

The national mean was 132.775 (PA’s was 136.393) That means almost half (if not 50%) were sub-133 (133 being “passing range” for most states), and possibly around 40 percent (if not more) were sub-130. :shock:

MissT wrote:Ouch. Perhaps the addition of Civ Pro to the MBE is responsible for the decline in scores? More material to study, less time to study the other subjects.

Yes. Also keep in mind that subject is the bane of most law school students, and foreign takers have virtually no exposure to it. Since foreign takers are between 40-50% in many of the bigger states, that’ll affect the national numbers. Also keep in mind that foreign takers aren’t as exposed to multiple-choice (outside of Canada, writing is get heavier - if not exclusI’ve emphasis).

I haven’t mentioned repeaters because, especially after the second attempt, the numbers are skewed. For most repeaters, the MBE format isn’t the reason for not passing, it’s the way they prepare

The NCBE also changed the format to 25 test questions in 2016. Those only accelerated the lower MBE numbers. Pass rates may’ve dropped even further if it wasn’t for the mass adopting of the UBE, or other states’ reworking how their exam was scored.

We also can’t rule out the Examplify debacle. Not only did many test takers know they were supposed to login before the exam (an email was sent out literally the night before), some couldn’t upload their answers for a while. As the 2014 ExamSoft debacle showed, getting spooked like that is enough to depress MBE scores nationwide.

My $.02

b290

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby b290 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:44 pm

b290 wrote:outside of Canada, writing gets heavier - if not exclusive - emphasis


Corrections in italics. Mods, please bring back edit capabilities. Thanks

My. $.02

Jdsquared87

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby Jdsquared87 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 pm

Well ive got 20 days until NJ is released and reading this just turns my stomach. I did my best...i assume i just need to hope for the best and pray that i dont need to slay that beast again.

stephcurry30

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby stephcurry30 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:45 am

Can someone educate those of us still waiting for our results to come out about whether this is the correct way to "calculate" your score? I'm constantly doing math with worst case scenario numbers as I wait for my score but I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly.

So I came out of my exam thinking I did decently well on the MBE (about how I was performing on Barbri and Adaptibar), finished and wrote decent MPTs, but screwed up a few of the essays.

MBE is 50%, MPT is 20% and MEE is 30% in UBE jurisdictions. So that would mean MBE = 200 points, MPT is 80 points, and MEE is 120 points, correct?
My jurisdiction (NY) requires a 266 to pass.

So if I got a 150 MBE + 60 MPT then I'd have 210 points. Then that would mean I'd need to have scored at least 56 points on my essays to have passed the NY exam if these numbers held true? That's like 46% on the essays...

If that's the case, how badly do you have to eff up on each essay to score a 46% on the MEE? Can you score that low on the MEE if you at least answered all of the questions and wrote something in IRAC to address each subquestion for the essay?

Guccifer91

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Re: MBE February 2018 Reactions..

Postby Guccifer91 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:47 pm

L_William_W wrote:1) Adaptibar is shit

2) I got a 149.3 MBE (albeit, on the 6th time I took the bar exam- three in NJ, three in NY. I passed each on the 3rd attempt). I finished at the bottom of my class and nearly got academically dismissed. I struggled through civ pro, though torts and con law were a breeze. The bar exam is curved. Unless you completely froze and fucked up, you'll be fine.


Not sure if this is an Adapibar advertisement or not



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