2018 July California Bar

Discussions related to the bar exam are found in this forum
diatribe

New
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:04 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby diatribe » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:35 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:I keep getting anxious about results. I graduated in the top 5% of my class and I studied really hard. I feel like there’s always a few students every year at my school who don’t pass even though they did well in law school. I finished the written sessions probably 15 min early. I know I missed some stuff in evidence but I couldn’t think of anything else to write for the other essays. Anyone else finish early? I know a lot of people ran out of time so that is why I’m nervous.

I also screwed up the pension analysis for CP. anyone know of a good bar score calculator to ease my mind? I was scoring 75-80% accuracy on MBEs so hoping that I can get a few 60s or 55s on my essays and still pass.

Hoping we can overcome the statistics this year.


For what it's worth, law school grades have historically been the best predictor of bar exam success. LSAT scores, the ranking of your law school or your undergrad GPA doesn't usually correlate with passing the bar, but law school grades have been a good predictor of bar exam success. So, since you have top grades and you studied hard, you probably passed.

https://abovethelaw.com/2013/09/whats-t ... -the-lsat/

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/g ... tudy-finds


Not much solace when you struggled to get to a top 50% GPA like I did. Aside from that I reject the GPA=success notion considering Stanford has a 98% pass rate. Although they don't have a GPA system like most other schools, that wouldn't have an impact on bar success (under the GPA=success assumption). Whether or not they imposed a curve system, the students they have would still be the students they have. And 98/100 of those students are passing the CA bar. Likewise, USC, UCLA, Berkeley have high pass rates but their students can't all have high GPAs

88% of UCLA law graduates are passing the bar, 2.0 and all.

I am a lowly T100, I stand no chance. Feel free to have my plant when I pack up my office November 17th

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:07 pm

diatribe wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:I keep getting anxious about results. I graduated in the top 5% of my class and I studied really hard. I feel like there’s always a few students every year at my school who don’t pass even though they did well in law school. I finished the written sessions probably 15 min early. I know I missed some stuff in evidence but I couldn’t think of anything else to write for the other essays. Anyone else finish early? I know a lot of people ran out of time so that is why I’m nervous.

I also screwed up the pension analysis for CP. anyone know of a good bar score calculator to ease my mind? I was scoring 75-80% accuracy on MBEs so hoping that I can get a few 60s or 55s on my essays and still pass.

Hoping we can overcome the statistics this year.


For what it's worth, law school grades have historically been the best predictor of bar exam success. LSAT scores, the ranking of your law school or your undergrad GPA doesn't usually correlate with passing the bar, but law school grades have been a good predictor of bar exam success. So, since you have top grades and you studied hard, you probably passed.

https://abovethelaw.com/2013/09/whats-t ... -the-lsat/

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/g ... tudy-finds


Not much solace when you struggled to get to a top 50% GPA like I did. Aside from that I reject the GPA=success notion considering Stanford has a 98% pass rate. Although they don't have a GPA system like most other schools, that wouldn't have an impact on bar success (under the GPA=success assumption). Whether or not they imposed a curve system, the students they have would still be the students they have. And 98/100 of those students are passing the CA bar. Likewise, USC, UCLA, Berkeley have high pass rates but their students can't all have high GPAs

88% of UCLA law graduates are passing the bar, 2.0 and all.

I am a lowly T100, I stand no chance. Feel free to have my plant when I pack up my office November 17th


You make a good point, especially with the top 25 law schools because the middle/top GPA of those schools is very hard to achieve. But I don't agree with your analysis of YOU. If you studied really hard for the bar and prepared efficiently, you have a chance of passing just like the rest of us. GPA helps (even in top tier schools) only for the fact that that person was consistently above the curve means a likelihood that they could also be above the curve in the bar. But what is MOST important in my judgment, is a person's preparation for the bar exam.

lnu1992

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby lnu1992 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:58 pm

A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:14 pm

lnu1992 wrote:A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.


That's also a good point. Some people get really bad test anxiety and blank out or don't perform when it matters most. I know a girl who was on our school's Law Review and she didn't pass because she stressed herself out too much.

My best law school exam was the one I knew I did decently on, but there was a part of an analysis that I forgot to discuss that I knew was important. That thought of omitting it ate me alive. But, I got the highest grade in that class, even though I was thinking I'd get like an A-. Moral of that story is that sometimes when you really know your stuff you focus on the parts you knew you can do better on. But even CalBar understands the pressure of time and the test implications means that most people will make a mistake or two or leave something out.

Regarding essays, I am pretty sure most bartakers missed at least one important issue out of all of the essays they wrote. It rarely occurs that a bartaker got all the important issues for every single essay correct. For example, I made two big mistakes: completely fucked up my Pension analysis in CP, called Adequate Assurances further assurances and did not discuss that it needed a writing in contracts, didn't discuss sovereign immunity although I think it wasn't a big issue in Con law but would likely get you some points.

lnu1992

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby lnu1992 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:48 pm

mathandthelaw wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.


That's also a good point. Some people get really bad test anxiety and blank out or don't perform when it matters most. I know a girl who was on our school's Law Review and she didn't pass because she stressed herself out too much.

My best law school exam was the one I knew I did decently on, but there was a part of an analysis that I forgot to discuss that I knew was important. That thought of omitting it ate me alive. But, I got the highest grade in that class, even though I was thinking I'd get like an A-. Moral of that story is that sometimes when you really know your stuff you focus on the parts you knew you can do better on. But even CalBar understands the pressure of time and the test implications means that most people will make a mistake or two or leave something out.

Regarding essays, I am pretty sure most bartakers missed at least one important issue out of all of the essays they wrote. It rarely occurs that a bartaker got all the important issues for every single essay correct. For example, I made two big mistakes: completely fucked up my Pension analysis in CP, called Adequate Assurances further assurances and did not discuss that it needed a writing in contracts, didn't discuss sovereign immunity although I think it wasn't a big issue in Con law but would likely get you some points.


I made all the same mistakes as you except I did not call adequate assurances "further assurances." I do not think you would get docked for that. I also missed a few issues on the Evidence essay (assuming Bar Secrets was correct). I think I passed Contracts, PR, and maybe the PT. The PT I was so tired by the time I took it. I felt like I was repeating myself a bit in the different sections of the PT. Trying to stay positive. Hopefully I performed better than I think I did. :D

User avatar
MBernard

New
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:44 pm

lnu1992 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.


That's also a good point. Some people get really bad test anxiety and blank out or don't perform when it matters most. I know a girl who was on our school's Law Review and she didn't pass because she stressed herself out too much.

My best law school exam was the one I knew I did decently on, but there was a part of an analysis that I forgot to discuss that I knew was important. That thought of omitting it ate me alive. But, I got the highest grade in that class, even though I was thinking I'd get like an A-. Moral of that story is that sometimes when you really know your stuff you focus on the parts you knew you can do better on. But even CalBar understands the pressure of time and the test implications means that most people will make a mistake or two or leave something out.

Regarding essays, I am pretty sure most bartakers missed at least one important issue out of all of the essays they wrote. It rarely occurs that a bartaker got all the important issues for every single essay correct. For example, I made two big mistakes: completely fucked up my Pension analysis in CP, called Adequate Assurances further assurances and did not discuss that it needed a writing in contracts, didn't discuss sovereign immunity although I think it wasn't a big issue in Con law but would likely get you some points.


I made all the same mistakes as you except I did not call adequate assurances "further assurances." I do not think you would get docked for that. I also missed a few issues on the Evidence essay (assuming Bar Secrets was correct). I think I passed Contracts, PR, and maybe the PT. The PT I was so tired by the time I took it. I felt like I was repeating myself a bit in the different sections of the PT. Trying to stay positive. Hopefully I performed better than I think I did. :D


One thing to take into account is that it's way easier to focus on mistakes as opposed to the essays or issues you completely nailed. Like if you go back and look at some of the older CBX threads you'll see examinees mention they botched two essays but still end up passing either because made up the point deficit via other essays or the MBE. I completely screwed up the CP analysis for the Motorboat and I'm pretty sure Evidence is going to be bad (so maybe like a 55 and a 60 or hopefully two 60s) but I think the higher scores I'll get in PR, Contracts and Con Law will balance things out for the essays. As for the PT, I'm pretty sure I did what I needed to but I included an intro and a closing. The intro was just like "here is the argument for your brief"; no idea if I'll get hit hard for that. Probably the MBE will be a make or break for me.

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:17 pm

MBernard wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.


That's also a good point. Some people get really bad test anxiety and blank out or don't perform when it matters most. I know a girl who was on our school's Law Review and she didn't pass because she stressed herself out too much.

My best law school exam was the one I knew I did decently on, but there was a part of an analysis that I forgot to discuss that I knew was important. That thought of omitting it ate me alive. But, I got the highest grade in that class, even though I was thinking I'd get like an A-. Moral of that story is that sometimes when you really know your stuff you focus on the parts you knew you can do better on. But even CalBar understands the pressure of time and the test implications means that most people will make a mistake or two or leave something out.

Regarding essays, I am pretty sure most bartakers missed at least one important issue out of all of the essays they wrote. It rarely occurs that a bartaker got all the important issues for every single essay correct. For example, I made two big mistakes: completely fucked up my Pension analysis in CP, called Adequate Assurances further assurances and did not discuss that it needed a writing in contracts, didn't discuss sovereign immunity although I think it wasn't a big issue in Con law but would likely get you some points.


I made all the same mistakes as you except I did not call adequate assurances "further assurances." I do not think you would get docked for that. I also missed a few issues on the Evidence essay (assuming Bar Secrets was correct). I think I passed Contracts, PR, and maybe the PT. The PT I was so tired by the time I took it. I felt like I was repeating myself a bit in the different sections of the PT. Trying to stay positive. Hopefully I performed better than I think I did. :D


One thing to take into account is that it's way easier to focus on mistakes as opposed to the essays or issues you completely nailed. Like if you go back and look at some of the older CBX threads you'll see examinees mention they botched two essays but still end up passing either because made up the point deficit via other essays or the MBE. I completely screwed up the CP analysis for the Motorboat and I'm pretty sure Evidence is going to be bad (so maybe like a 55 and a 60 or hopefully two 60s) but I think the higher scores I'll get in PR, Contracts and Con Law will balance things out for the essays. As for the PT, I'm pretty sure I did what I needed to but I included an intro and a closing. The intro was just like "here is the argument for your brief"; no idea if I'll get hit hard for that. Probably the MBE will be a make or break for me.


Yeah, I think it's simply selective memory. We are focusing on what we know we could have improved upon because of how hard we studied and what we know. Based upon what others have said, and based upon review of some past essay answers, I think CBX grades essays reasonably hard, but if the grader can tell you understand the material overall (despite maybe a mistake or two), you will probably still pass the essay or be close to passing. We just need to average a 62.5 on each essay/PT and average around 130 multiple choice questions correct. That does leave room for mental errors/omissions, in my opinion. I also think a really strong essay can put you at a 70 (or above), which even increases your margin of error. And anyone who is a strong multiple choice testtaker (I would say averaging 140 and above questions correct), then you can definitely pass with a 55/60 or two or maybe even three.

Regarding the PT, I was generally making the same arguments for both prongs. I tried my best to distinguish the facts that related to the guilty plea and the hearing, but it sort of overlapped I feel like. Many classmates I spoke too found themselves doing the same. I didn't have time to conclude, although I did have an introduction.

scard

New
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:34 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby scard » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:41 pm

mathandthelaw wrote:
MBernard wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.


That's also a good point. Some people get really bad test anxiety and blank out or don't perform when it matters most. I know a girl who was on our school's Law Review and she didn't pass because she stressed herself out too much.

My best law school exam was the one I knew I did decently on, but there was a part of an analysis that I forgot to discuss that I knew was important. That thought of omitting it ate me alive. But, I got the highest grade in that class, even though I was thinking I'd get like an A-. Moral of that story is that sometimes when you really know your stuff you focus on the parts you knew you can do better on. But even CalBar understands the pressure of time and the test implications means that most people will make a mistake or two or leave something out.

Regarding essays, I am pretty sure most bartakers missed at least one important issue out of all of the essays they wrote. It rarely occurs that a bartaker got all the important issues for every single essay correct. For example, I made two big mistakes: completely fucked up my Pension analysis in CP, called Adequate Assurances further assurances and did not discuss that it needed a writing in contracts, didn't discuss sovereign immunity although I think it wasn't a big issue in Con law but would likely get you some points.


I made all the same mistakes as you except I did not call adequate assurances "further assurances." I do not think you would get docked for that. I also missed a few issues on the Evidence essay (assuming Bar Secrets was correct). I think I passed Contracts, PR, and maybe the PT. The PT I was so tired by the time I took it. I felt like I was repeating myself a bit in the different sections of the PT. Trying to stay positive. Hopefully I performed better than I think I did. :D


One thing to take into account is that it's way easier to focus on mistakes as opposed to the essays or issues you completely nailed. Like if you go back and look at some of the older CBX threads you'll see examinees mention they botched two essays but still end up passing either because made up the point deficit via other essays or the MBE. I completely screwed up the CP analysis for the Motorboat and I'm pretty sure Evidence is going to be bad (so maybe like a 55 and a 60 or hopefully two 60s) but I think the higher scores I'll get in PR, Contracts and Con Law will balance things out for the essays. As for the PT, I'm pretty sure I did what I needed to but I included an intro and a closing. The intro was just like "here is the argument for your brief"; no idea if I'll get hit hard for that. Probably the MBE will be a make or break for me.


Yeah, I think it's simply selective memory. We are focusing on what we know we could have improved upon because of how hard we studied and what we know. Based upon what others have said, and based upon review of some past essay answers, I think CBX grades essays reasonably hard, but if the grader can tell you understand the material overall (despite maybe a mistake or two), you will probably still pass the essay or be close to passing. We just need to average a 62.5 on each essay/PT and average around 130 multiple choice questions correct. That does leave room for mental errors/omissions, in my opinion. I also think a really strong essay can put you at a 70 (or above), which even increases your margin of error. And anyone who is a strong multiple choice testtaker (I would say averaging 140 and above questions correct), then you can definitely pass with a 55/60 or two or maybe even three.

Regarding the PT, I was generally making the same arguments for both prongs. I tried my best to distinguish the facts that related to the guilty plea and the hearing, but it sort of overlapped I feel like. Many classmates I spoke too found themselves doing the same. I didn't have time to conclude, although I did have an introduction.


Sorry but I have to disagree with two points you made. First, they grade UNREASONABLY hard. Iv posted my scores from last July and you can see a large discrepancy on one of the essays. What would make one grader think the essay is a 50, and the other and the supervisor a 65? I’m lucky I got the bad grader on the reread as if I had gotten them on the I itial read, it may never have resulted in a reread. What percentage of greasers is like the second reader and how many people get those graders initially?

Next as you can see from my scores below, it takes quite a bit of passing scores with a 1440 mbe score. Strong essays get you a 65, it’s very rare you get anything higher than that, atleast it’s very rare for anyone to ever get their scores back to ever get one or two essays with a higher grade than 65.

first read. /. second read. /. operant
essay 1: 65 60 62.5
essay 2: 55 55 55
essay 3: 65 65 65
essay 4: 65 50 65
essay 5: 60 55 57.5
PT: 55 60 57.5

raw written: 420.0
scaled written: 1387.0307
scaled MBE: 1434.0000

Total scaled score: 1410.5154

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:25 pm

scard wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
MBernard wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:A person's ability to handle the anxiety and stress of the exam is also huge. Even though I was a top student, I blanked during parts of the exam. Like I am 99% sure I did not write about the market participant exception in the Con Law essay even though I am sure it was triggered. There are so many factors that play into whether a person passes. I felt absolutely awful after the proctor called time on that Wednesday. However, I ended up doing the best on final exams that I felt awful about. Who knows...maybe feeling bad about it is a good thing? I know a lot of people who felt confident after taking the bar but ended up not passing.


That's also a good point. Some people get really bad test anxiety and blank out or don't perform when it matters most. I know a girl who was on our school's Law Review and she didn't pass because she stressed herself out too much.

My best law school exam was the one I knew I did decently on, but there was a part of an analysis that I forgot to discuss that I knew was important. That thought of omitting it ate me alive. But, I got the highest grade in that class, even though I was thinking I'd get like an A-. Moral of that story is that sometimes when you really know your stuff you focus on the parts you knew you can do better on. But even CalBar understands the pressure of time and the test implications means that most people will make a mistake or two or leave something out.

Regarding essays, I am pretty sure most bartakers missed at least one important issue out of all of the essays they wrote. It rarely occurs that a bartaker got all the important issues for every single essay correct. For example, I made two big mistakes: completely fucked up my Pension analysis in CP, called Adequate Assurances further assurances and did not discuss that it needed a writing in contracts, didn't discuss sovereign immunity although I think it wasn't a big issue in Con law but would likely get you some points.


I made all the same mistakes as you except I did not call adequate assurances "further assurances." I do not think you would get docked for that. I also missed a few issues on the Evidence essay (assuming Bar Secrets was correct). I think I passed Contracts, PR, and maybe the PT. The PT I was so tired by the time I took it. I felt like I was repeating myself a bit in the different sections of the PT. Trying to stay positive. Hopefully I performed better than I think I did. :D


One thing to take into account is that it's way easier to focus on mistakes as opposed to the essays or issues you completely nailed. Like if you go back and look at some of the older CBX threads you'll see examinees mention they botched two essays but still end up passing either because made up the point deficit via other essays or the MBE. I completely screwed up the CP analysis for the Motorboat and I'm pretty sure Evidence is going to be bad (so maybe like a 55 and a 60 or hopefully two 60s) but I think the higher scores I'll get in PR, Contracts and Con Law will balance things out for the essays. As for the PT, I'm pretty sure I did what I needed to but I included an intro and a closing. The intro was just like "here is the argument for your brief"; no idea if I'll get hit hard for that. Probably the MBE will be a make or break for me.


Yeah, I think it's simply selective memory. We are focusing on what we know we could have improved upon because of how hard we studied and what we know. Based upon what others have said, and based upon review of some past essay answers, I think CBX grades essays reasonably hard, but if the grader can tell you understand the material overall (despite maybe a mistake or two), you will probably still pass the essay or be close to passing. We just need to average a 62.5 on each essay/PT and average around 130 multiple choice questions correct. That does leave room for mental errors/omissions, in my opinion. I also think a really strong essay can put you at a 70 (or above), which even increases your margin of error. And anyone who is a strong multiple choice testtaker (I would say averaging 140 and above questions correct), then you can definitely pass with a 55/60 or two or maybe even three.

Regarding the PT, I was generally making the same arguments for both prongs. I tried my best to distinguish the facts that related to the guilty plea and the hearing, but it sort of overlapped I feel like. Many classmates I spoke too found themselves doing the same. I didn't have time to conclude, although I did have an introduction.


Sorry but I have to disagree with two points you made. First, they grade UNREASONABLY hard. Iv posted my scores from last July and you can see a large discrepancy on one of the essays. What would make one grader think the essay is a 50, and the other and the supervisor a 65? I’m lucky I got the bad grader on the reread as if I had gotten them on the I itial read, it may never have resulted in a reread. What percentage of greasers is like the second reader and how many people get those graders initially?

Next as you can see from my scores below, it takes quite a bit of passing scores with a 1440 mbe score. Strong essays get you a 65, it’s very rare you get anything higher than that, atleast it’s very rare for anyone to ever get their scores back to ever get one or two essays with a higher grade than 65.

first read. /. second read. /. operant
essay 1: 65 60 62.5
essay 2: 55 55 55
essay 3: 65 65 65
essay 4: 65 50 65
essay 5: 60 55 57.5
PT: 55 60 57.5

raw written: 420.0
scaled written: 1387.0307
scaled MBE: 1434.0000

Total scaled score: 1410.5154


I didn't read your essays so I can't evaluate whether the grades are fair or not. I do think a discrepancy between 65 and 50 is ridiculous, but they gave you the 65, so I don't think there is too much to gripe about in the end. Also, the people who get their scores back are people who didn't pass, so the likelihood of people who failed obtaining 70s or above on any graded essay or PT is very slim. I am aware that essay graders rarely ever go above a 70.

What I talked about with grading was based upon what Barbri had explained, and research I have conducted online. I've actually read past essays that were graded. I didn''t think they graded unreasonably hard overall. There may be a few graders here and there who grade extremely hard, but the totality of graders grade "reasonably hard."

Like I said, you can probably get away with one or two 55/60 essays if the other essays are really good and the PT is good. Your analytics don't change my view, I find them to substantiate.

Nevertheless, you were very close to passing and you should be proud of that. I hope for the best this time around for you!

What'sUP?

New
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby What'sUP? » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:16 pm

I did not discuss the contracts clause in the Con Law essay either. Completely forgot -- oh well. On the PT I did not include a INTRO. I had a conclusion but am wondering how essential it was to have an INTRODUCTION. Ugh!!!!

User avatar
MBernard

New
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:19 pm

Alright, Q-3 on Professional Responsibility is now available on BarSecrets. Not an extremely detailed discussion but they gave the skeleton of the main points that should’ve been discussed. Namely, Problems w/Fee Arragement, Competency, Loyalty, Personal Conflict, Concurrent Client Conflict, etc. This on by far felt like the easiest question. Trick I guess was discussing things according to both ABA and CA authorities. Definitely counting on a 70 here. So far I’m thinking: Contracts -65; Evidence - 55-60; PR -70-75.

What'sUP?

New
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:59 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby What'sUP? » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:30 pm

I haven't watched the breakdown yet for PR, but all of that sounds familiar.

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:44 pm

MBernard wrote:Alright, Q-3 on Professional Responsibility is now available on BarSecrets. Not an extremely detailed discussion but they gave the skeleton of the main points that should’ve been discussed. Namely, Problems w/Fee Arragement, Competency, Loyalty, Personal Conflict, Concurrent Client Conflict, etc. This on by far felt like the easiest question. Trick I guess was discussing things according to both ABA and CA authorities. Definitely counting on a 70 here. So far I’m thinking: Contracts -65; Evidence - 55-60; PR -70-75.


I hope I discussed enough in depth the reasonableness of the fee. I feel like I sort of quickly analyzed it stating the fee was unreasonable under ABA and unconscionable in CA because of his lack of competence and the fact that the court relieved him rather than the clients terminating him. I don't remember if I mentioned the conflict with the niece or not (hope I did), but I analyzed the joint conflict and writing requirements. I discussed the problems with the contingency fee arrangement, the advancement being okay, and lack of competence rather thoroughly.

User avatar
MBernard

New
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:34 pm

mathandthelaw wrote: I hope I discussed enough in depth the reasonableness of the fee. I feel like I sort of quickly analyzed it stating the fee was unreasonable under ABA and unconscionable in CA because of his lack of competence and the fact that the court relieved him rather than the clients terminating him. I don't remember if I mentioned the conflict with the niece or not (hope I did), but I analyzed the joint conflict and writing requirements. I discussed the problems with the contingency fee arrangement, the advancement being okay, and lack of competence rather thoroughly.


I really wouldn’t worry about the issue with the niece. I’m sure there’s points attached to it but nothing that significant (likewise with the concurrent client conflict, there’s points attached but probably not a lot). Everyone sounds pretty solid on this one. The fee arrangement and Competency were the core issues.

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:52 pm

MBernard wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote: I hope I discussed enough in depth the reasonableness of the fee. I feel like I sort of quickly analyzed it stating the fee was unreasonable under ABA and unconscionable in CA because of his lack of competence and the fact that the court relieved him rather than the clients terminating him. I don't remember if I mentioned the conflict with the niece or not (hope I did), but I analyzed the joint conflict and writing requirements. I discussed the problems with the contingency fee arrangement, the advancement being okay, and lack of competence rather thoroughly.


I really wouldn’t worry about the issue with the niece. I’m sure there’s points attached to it but nothing that significant (likewise with the concurrent client conflict, there’s points attached but probably not a lot). Everyone sounds pretty solid on this one. The fee arrangement and Competency were the core issues.


I feel like the niece and joint representation conflicts of interest were major issues though. If I omitted talking about the niece, that's a big deal because it's the attorney's personal conflict and his contract required that he notify the clients, and the ABA/CA require written disclosure.

I think most people would have spotted all/most of these issues for PR. The key I think will be in the analysis and precision of rule statements.

User avatar
santoki

Silver
Posts: 894
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby santoki » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:33 pm

how is everyone dealing with the stress of waiting? personally I can't remember a thing from the exam and can't contribute to these discussions. all i'm doing is having intermittent panic attacks. :mrgreen:

do most firms allow a second chance at the bar exam? it hasn't been explicitly discussed for me but it feels as if i won't be afforded a second chance here.

lnu1992

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby lnu1992 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:34 pm

santoki wrote:how is everyone dealing with the stress of waiting? personally I can't remember a thing from the exam and can't contribute to these discussions. all i'm doing is having intermittent panic attacks. :mrgreen:

do most firms allow a second chance at the bar exam? it hasn't been explicitly discussed for me but it feels as if i won't be afforded a second chance here.


I am DYING. I feel worse every day. My firm allows for a second chance but I cannot go through the bar process again. I do not know if I have it in me.

User avatar
MBernard

New
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:49 pm

lnu1992 wrote:
santoki wrote:how is everyone dealing with the stress of waiting? personally I can't remember a thing from the exam and can't contribute to these discussions. all i'm doing is having intermittent panic attacks. :mrgreen:

do most firms allow a second chance at the bar exam? it hasn't been explicitly discussed for me but it feels as if i won't be afforded a second chance here.


I am DYING. I feel worse every day. My firm allows for a second chance but I cannot go through the bar process again. I do not know if I have it in me.


THIS. Even being an attorney applicant with some bar experience behind me this wait feels like crap. It's weird, I don't feel as though the subject matter for Ca was extremely tough compared to the last one I took but this one nonetheless seems worse. Mainly because the essay grading appears to be way tougher compounded with the fact it's easy to make mistakes or miss an issue when you're working w/limited time. Feels like there is little room for error which is scary. Assuming I pass it'll probably be more attributable to the MBE. There are two essays that are really iffy for me on this one.

I've heard of a lot of firms offering a second chance; that's probably especially true with Ca. There was a guy older than me I clerked with at a great firm in Dallas who flunked the bar exam twice. Nonetheless, he was hired. Probably your work ethic and relationship w/superiors play a big part in that calculus.

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:22 pm

MBernard wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:
santoki wrote:how is everyone dealing with the stress of waiting? personally I can't remember a thing from the exam and can't contribute to these discussions. all i'm doing is having intermittent panic attacks. :mrgreen:

do most firms allow a second chance at the bar exam? it hasn't been explicitly discussed for me but it feels as if i won't be afforded a second chance here.


I am DYING. I feel worse every day. My firm allows for a second chance but I cannot go through the bar process again. I do not know if I have it in me.


THIS. Even being an attorney applicant with some bar experience behind me this wait feels like crap. It's weird, I don't feel as though the subject matter for Ca was extremely tough compared to the last one I took but this one nonetheless seems worse. Mainly because the essay grading appears to be way tougher compounded with the fact it's easy to make mistakes or miss an issue when you're working w/limited time. Feels like there is little room for error which is scary. Assuming I pass it'll probably be more attributable to the MBE. There are two essays that are really iffy for me on this one.

I've heard of a lot of firms offering a second chance; that's probably especially true with Ca. There was a guy older than me I clerked with at a great firm in Dallas who flunked the bar exam twice. Nonetheless, he was hired. Probably your work ethic and relationship w/superiors play a big part in that calculus.


I hope you are right. Although santoki, lnu1992, and Mbernard you all seem smart and on top of it so I have confidence in you all.

The wait is killing me because I really want to get out of the firm I'm at even though I have the job lined up. I'm waiting just in case I failed, because I don't want to go somewhere else having flunked especially if I need to study. I don't like the wait because it is stalling me from my ability to look for another job.

All I do is doc review and I don't like the founding partner, as he's not giving me the respect I deserve. He's been wrong about things before and I've tried to point that out and he shuts me down and is highly critical of my work. The law is black and white, or there is gray area. When there is gray area sometimes I choose one approach that I can, and he shuts me down for it even though it's open to interpretation anyway. I get that I need to have thick skin and remember that this can happen at any firm, but I work directly under this guy, and I'm getting really sick of it. He clearly needs to retire and I feel like he's taking out his career frustration on me.

bacillusanthracis

New
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:30 am

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby bacillusanthracis » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:23 pm

santoki wrote:how is everyone dealing with the stress of waiting? personally I can't remember a thing from the exam and can't contribute to these discussions.


On dealing with the stress, I've been studying for the bar again since two weeks after taking the bar. I've managed to be able to learn more and keep doing MBE questions, and even some essays on topics I'm anticipating will show up in February. Frankly, I'm pretty sure I could take the MBE and pass it right now. If I failed this time, I will absolutely pass it in February.

I've been down this road of dismal failure already, and some of the worst advice I ever received was, "Don't start studying again, you probably passed." Thanks a pant-load to everyone (and there were several) who told me that.

So I've kept up what I knew, and learned more along the way. If I did pass, and all this studying didn't need to be done, it doesn't bother me. It helps me deal with the stress of waiting, it mentally and emotionally prepares me to to have to take it again, and I'll be well ahead of the 10 week cram session. There's not going to be any re-learning, re-remembering, re-memorizing bullshit if I do have to do it again. Next time it's a foregone conclusion.

As for not remembering what you wrote, I don't either. I know I bombed the contracts essay because while I did remember there was a writing requirement, I ascribed it to the wrong party. That one fuckup undid the entirety of the rest of the essay. So there's a 50. The rest? I don't know and it doesn't matter because the same exact topics aren't going to be tested on the next exam... Okay, I'll admit I did look up the Consent to Fight rule just to make sure it was a thing (it is).

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:02 pm

bacillusanthracis wrote:
santoki wrote:how is everyone dealing with the stress of waiting? personally I can't remember a thing from the exam and can't contribute to these discussions.


On dealing with the stress, I've been studying for the bar again since two weeks after taking the bar. I've managed to be able to learn more and keep doing MBE questions, and even some essays on topics I'm anticipating will show up in February. Frankly, I'm pretty sure I could take the MBE and pass it right now. If I failed this time, I will absolutely pass it in February.

I've been down this road of dismal failure already, and some of the worst advice I ever received was, "Don't start studying again, you probably passed." Thanks a pant-load to everyone (and there were several) who told me that.

So I've kept up what I knew, and learned more along the way. If I did pass, and all this studying didn't need to be done, it doesn't bother me. It helps me deal with the stress of waiting, it mentally and emotionally prepares me to to have to take it again, and I'll be well ahead of the 10 week cram session. There's not going to be any re-learning, re-remembering, re-memorizing bullshit if I do have to do it again. Next time it's a foregone conclusion.

As for not remembering what you wrote, I don't either. I know I bombed the contracts essay because while I did remember there was a writing requirement, I ascribed it to the wrong party. That one fuckup undid the entirety of the rest of the essay. So there's a 50. The rest? I don't know and it doesn't matter because the same exact topics aren't going to be tested on the next exam... Okay, I'll admit I did look up the Consent to Fight rule just to make sure it was a thing (it is).


I respect your persistence. I'm just burn out. I wish I had it in me to study but I just don't right now. Are you working full time by chance? If you are, I commend you for continuing to study after 2.5+ months of brutal studying for J18. I guess I'll cross the bridge when I get there if I fail.

Regarding contracts, my adequate assurances analysis was short and I didn't even discuss the writing requirement because I totally forgot about it, and I forgot about the 30 days reasonableness time (I just said a reasonable time). I think and hope the rest of my essay made up for that omission and that I still passed it or at least got a 60. I don't know if ascribing the writing requirement to the wrong party would cause you to get a 50 (I assume you mean Stan had to provide writing instead of Best, and Best only called to seek adequate assurances). It just depends on how the rest of your essay was.

lnu1992

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby lnu1992 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:37 am

I just realized I never discussed Confrontation Clause for the Evidence essay....Hopefully I discussed it and just blocked it out of my mind. I did not even realize it was triggered until I saw something online about it today. What is happeninggggg.... haha. 23 days...

User avatar
MBernard

New
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:59 am

lnu1992 wrote:I just realized I never discussed Confrontation Clause for the Evidence essay....Hopefully I discussed it and just blocked it out of my mind. I did not even realize it was triggered until I saw something online about it today. What is happeninggggg.... haha. 23 days...


I didn’t discuss commingling for the motorboat on the CP question. Extreme oversight on my part but mistakes happen. I’m being conservative with my expectations but there’s always hope lol.

lnu1992

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby lnu1992 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:15 am

MBernard wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:I just realized I never discussed Confrontation Clause for the Evidence essay....Hopefully I discussed it and just blocked it out of my mind. I did not even realize it was triggered until I saw something online about it today. What is happeninggggg.... haha. 23 days...


I didn’t discuss commingling for the motorboat on the CP question. Extreme oversight on my part but mistakes happen. I’m being conservative with my expectations but there’s always hope lol.


I cannot even remember the CP question. All I know is the pension thing messed me up. So Confrontation Clause was triggered? I feel like I am going insane haha. What is keeping me slightly positive is I heard some guy say he wrote civ pro for the con law question. I also heard someone say they liked the con crim pro question....haha comments like that make me feel slightly better.

mathandthelaw

New
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:23 pm

Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mathandthelaw » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:00 pm

lnu1992 wrote:
MBernard wrote:
lnu1992 wrote:I just realized I never discussed Confrontation Clause for the Evidence essay....Hopefully I discussed it and just blocked it out of my mind. I did not even realize it was triggered until I saw something online about it today. What is happeninggggg.... haha. 23 days...


I didn’t discuss commingling for the motorboat on the CP question. Extreme oversight on my part but mistakes happen. I’m being conservative with my expectations but there’s always hope lol.


I cannot even remember the CP question. All I know is the pension thing messed me up. So Confrontation Clause was triggered? I feel like I am going insane haha. What is keeping me slightly positive is I heard some guy say he wrote civ pro for the con law question. I also heard someone say they liked the con crim pro question....haha comments like that make me feel slightly better.


I think you guys are fine. I've changed my tune and I'm thinking real positive now because that's all we can do. Frankly, if you studied hard and understand the material, you have a very strong chance of passing. It is actually more likely that you passed then failed if you prepared well.

The commingling with the motorboat matters only slightly, but I think what was most important is that they both used it, so it wasn't necessarily clear it was a gift to Wendy despite title being in her name. Not something to be concerned of.

Re the confrontation clause, I think all I said for that is that the two witnesses discussed must be available for cross as it was prosecution's case in chief and that the call was an on-going emergency so not testimonial. I don't think it was a major issue at all. With evidence, there is always so much to talk about, that you have to pick and choose. I missed the identification issue when he refused to identify her in court when there was a prior identification. Didn't talk about that at all. I just mentioned it could be a prior inconsistent statement as an assertion that he wasn't willing to identify her. So I missed issues too. And I don't even remember if I discussed character for the third part, think I did, but can't recall. Oh well!

I know my pension analysis was wrong on CP but guess what, I know many people who passed who missed issues and whatnot. Heck I know someone who passed the bar who didn't finish her PT.



Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Civengrpe, Got'eem and 22 guests