2018 July California Bar

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mrro

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby mrro » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:25 pm

Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?

JohnnieSockran

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby JohnnieSockran » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:35 pm

mrro wrote:Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?


I thought about it, but decided not to. There's also a bit of a mental win leaving it for last, because then right before you get to the PT you've knocked out essays 4 and 5 and can feel done with needing to have substantive law rules memorized.

estefanchanning

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby estefanchanning » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:44 pm

JohnnieSockran wrote:
mrro wrote:Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?


I thought about it, but decided not to. There's also a bit of a mental win leaving it for last, because then right before you get to the PT you've knocked out essays 4 and 5 and can feel done with needing to have substantive law rules memorized.


Yeah I wouldn't want to exhaust my brain in any way by doing CPT first.

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chicoalto0649

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby chicoalto0649 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:40 pm

estefanchanning wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
mrro wrote:Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?


I thought about it, but decided not to. There's also a bit of a mental win leaving it for last, because then right before you get to the PT you've knocked out essays 4 and 5 and can feel done with needing to have substantive law rules memorized.


Yeah I wouldn't want to exhaust my brain in any way by doing CPT first.


I will tell you, it is far better to be pressed for time on an essay than a PT. My strategy going into it was I knew I would need more than 1hr30mins hours to put together a coherent PT. On a good day 1hr40mins to, at worst, 1hr50 mins. On game day I saw that there was an essay that was well within my wheel house and I knew I could power through it. It saved me about 5 minutes. Not much, but better than nothing. After I took about an hour and forty five on the PT, I had about 45-50 mins for a final essay. Was that ideal? No...but I can tell you the sense of dread you'll feel if you're crunched for time on the PT can really affect your ability to analyze the material, not to mention typing a coherent essay. (I know this from experience :oops:)

TL;DR: Play around with the CA Bar simulators. Your odds of passing are much improved with a 60/65 on a PT and a 55 on an essay, rather than the other way around (this assumes solid MBE performance), so try at all costs to put together a solid PT.

https://ubeessays.com/california-july-2 ... alculator/

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a male human

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:44 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:
estefanchanning wrote:
JohnnieSockran wrote:
mrro wrote:Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?


I thought about it, but decided not to. There's also a bit of a mental win leaving it for last, because then right before you get to the PT you've knocked out essays 4 and 5 and can feel done with needing to have substantive law rules memorized.


Yeah I wouldn't want to exhaust my brain in any way by doing CPT first.


I will tell you, it is far better to be pressed for time on an essay than a PT. My strategy going into it was I knew I would need more than 1hr30mins hours to put together a coherent PT. On a good day 1hr40mins to, at worst, 1hr50 mins. On game day I saw that there was an essay that was well within my wheel house and I knew I could power through it. It saved me about 5 minutes. Not much, but better than nothing. After I took about an hour and forty five on the PT, I had about 45-50 mins for a final essay. Was that ideal? No...but I can tell you the sense of dread you'll feel if you're crunched for time on the PT can really affect your ability to analyze the material, not to mention typing a coherent essay. (I know this from experience :oops:)

TL;DR: Play around with the CA Bar simulators. Your odds of passing are much improved with a 60/65 on a PT and a 55 on an essay, rather than the other way around (this assumes solid MBE performance), so try at all costs to put together a solid PT.

https://ubeessays.com/california-july-2 ... alculator/

Reasonable. It's just personal preference in the end.

Also just realized the afternoon is worth more points (4/7) than morning (3/7).

Angel66

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Angel66 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:05 pm

No one seeing a UCC essay question coming up in this July?

Angel66

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Angel66 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:07 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:
ADR wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:Sorry guys, I do not have any sort of scientific basis for my predictions. I was just thinking of the worst possible combination of topics the bar could could drop on examinees. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Naughty, I know. :oops: :oops:




There has been a lot of cross over the last few bar cycles. My predictions are similar:
CA Evidence/crimes (Trial Context)
Corporations (shareholders/director/officers, duty of Loyalty, duty of Care)
Trust/Remedies (maybe some kind of constructive trust and equitable lien)
Professional Responsibility/Con Law (Commercial Advertisement/solicitation/Free Speech)
Ca Civil Procedure (Discovery/ Res Judicata/Collateral Estoppel )

Hope we have done enough!


Not enough MBE topics. Last one had 3 pure MBE subjects with a crossover mixed in: crimanal law (technically a cross over with crim pro), con law, contracts (mixed with PR), and real property. Not that I have any investment in this, but I'l offer my ironclad predictions

1. Corporations. Pure unadulterated corporations.
2. Prof Responsibility mixed with an MBE subject. Maybe crimes or Fed Evidence (think duty of prosecutors etc)
3. Fed/CA Civ Pro(for CA Civ Pro, please, at the minimum learn some of the lingo so you don't get flustered. they could easily throw in a "demurrer" AKA motion to dismiss. easy to grasp, but could make people go bonkers)
4. Contracts and 1 of community property or truts
5. Con Law (commerce clause. they def can and will test 2 subjects in a row)


I'm not sure how likely duty of prosecutors will be tested again given (1) it's rarely tested; (2) there was a recent full PR essay on this topic.

I think PR in the corporation/partnership/agency setting is more possible.

Angel66

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Angel66 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:08 pm

ADR wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:Sorry guys, I do not have any sort of scientific basis for my predictions. I was just thinking of the worst possible combination of topics the bar could could drop on examinees. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Naughty, I know. :oops: :oops:




There has been a lot of cross over the last few bar cycles. My predictions are similar:
CA Evidence/crimes (Trial Context)
Corporations (shareholders/director/officers, duty of Loyalty, duty of Care)
Trust/Remedies (maybe some kind of constructive trust and equitable lien)
Professional Responsibility/Con Law (Commercial Advertisement/solicitation/Free Speech)
Ca Civil Procedure (Discovery/ Res Judicata/Collateral Estoppel )

Hope we have done enough!


Constructive trust usually wouldn't be combined with Trust though. It most likely will be combined with Torts.

arose928

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby arose928 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:59 pm

Angel66 wrote:
ADR wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:Sorry guys, I do not have any sort of scientific basis for my predictions. I was just thinking of the worst possible combination of topics the bar could could drop on examinees. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Naughty, I know. :oops: :oops:




There has been a lot of cross over the last few bar cycles. My predictions are similar:
CA Evidence/crimes (Trial Context)
Corporations (shareholders/director/officers, duty of Loyalty, duty of Care)
Trust/Remedies (maybe some kind of constructive trust and equitable lien)
Professional Responsibility/Con Law (Commercial Advertisement/solicitation/Free Speech)
Ca Civil Procedure (Discovery/ Res Judicata/Collateral Estoppel )

Hope we have done enough!


Constructive trust usually wouldn't be combined with Trust though. It most likely will be combined with Torts.


LOL I read this and thought to myself "wtf is a constructive trust"

I remember now but I guess I should go re-read my remedies outline..

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politibro44

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby politibro44 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:39 am

arose928 wrote:
Angel66 wrote:
ADR wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:Sorry guys, I do not have any sort of scientific basis for my predictions. I was just thinking of the worst possible combination of topics the bar could could drop on examinees. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Naughty, I know. :oops: :oops:




There has been a lot of cross over the last few bar cycles. My predictions are similar:
CA Evidence/crimes (Trial Context)
Corporations (shareholders/director/officers, duty of Loyalty, duty of Care)
Trust/Remedies (maybe some kind of constructive trust and equitable lien)
Professional Responsibility/Con Law (Commercial Advertisement/solicitation/Free Speech)
Ca Civil Procedure (Discovery/ Res Judicata/Collateral Estoppel )

Hope we have done enough!


Constructive trust usually wouldn't be combined with Trust though. It most likely will be combined with Torts.


LOL I read this and thought to myself "wtf is a constructive trust"

I remember now but I guess I should go re-read my remedies outline..


Feb 2013, Essay 3 (torts/remedies) tests this. It's lame.

justanotheruser

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:03 am

I failed 7/17 CA bar with a 1410 score. I got a 50 on the PT. I ran out of time on the PT. If I got a 60 on the PT, I very well could have passed the bar.

I ended up passing the 2/18 bar. This time around I must have done like 7-8 full practice PTs focusing on time management. Part of my strategy was also doing the PT before the two essays. I think for me it came down to the fact that I felt I could deal with having 48-50 minutes per essay AND that the PT counts more than an individual essay. On test day, I ended up taking 1 hr 45 mins, which left me with about ~52/53 minutes per essay. I did feel a little pressed on the essays that day (especially the Wills), but obviously things ended up working out for me.

mrro wrote:Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?

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goldenflash19

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby goldenflash19 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:20 am

Several friends and I who passed in July 17 allotted 1:50 for the PT, and I’d recommend it. We all thought having an extra 20% plus time over the average test taker was worth it given it is worth twice as much. A 75 on the PT lets you “pass”/average out at 65 in the afternoon session with two 55 essays. I felt confident my PT at least had to be an 85- I incorporated every relevant fact I found and nailed every issue discussed in the model answer.

I could tell by an initial read on of the afternoon questions that I would not do well on it. I ended up going 1:50 for PT, 1:05 for essay I felt good about, and 0:35 for the other and did not even outline it. I felt comfortable enough with PT and other essay that I knew I left the afternoon session with a strong point surplus, even with a probable 55 on the final essay.

I think the bar can be gamed to a large degree. If you focus on MBE, PT, and PR, you’ve accounted for roughly 2/3 of the points if PR is a crossover, and over 70% if PR is its own question.

Good luck!

ContingentRemainder

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby ContingentRemainder » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:11 pm

I like the idea of focusing on what we know will be important on the exam! I have trouble finishing PTs on time, so I might just do mine first.

That being said, does anyone have any advice re: PR essays? Been a while since I took the MPRE, and the essays seem so open to subjectivity. Plus, the materials I have don't particularly make it all easy to memorize. Do we want to just spit out every possible issue? If so, it seems like the limited time we have will be a problem.

What's a good approach, just outline as many as possible?

Happy88

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Happy88 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:37 pm

Hey everyone,

I’m absolutely bombing AdaptiBar! I’m also getting questions wrong that are were %70 answered correctly on a nationwide scale. Is that normal?? Frankly, this is just completely demotivating me and just making me feel if it’s even worth reviewing any material till the final exam date.

As for the PT, I will also start with it first before the essays, since it’s a completely new topic to my brain, no matter how quick I am, it will still take me a while to wrap my head around the issues and apply the rules based on what’s given. Unlike the essays, I can immediately form in my head at least an issue or two while reading the question and can quickly expand on it as the topic is familiar.

On another note with respect to the essays, I found Critical Pass to be a fantastic source to remember the rules to easily jot them down, or Barbri Essay Testing (CAT) “outlines” before each subject. Also, I’m constantly reminding myself that I don’t need to point out all of the issues and it’s absolutely ok as I tend to freak out when I compare my answers with the model answers and see that I missed few issues. I have set a goal of pointing out at least 4 issues on each essay (of course the more the merrier) and found that was sufficient enough to get a good score.

Happy88

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Happy88 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Hey guys,

I’m absolutely bombing Adavtibar! I’m even getting questions wrong that have a 70% nationawide scale. This is really discouraging me to do any further review. Is this normal??

As for the essays, I found Critical Pass a great source to jot down the rules for the MBE topics, my goal was to extract at least 4 four issues for each essay (of course the more the merrier) and found it to be fine as a passing score.

I also constantly reminded myself that I don’t need to get all of the issues as the model answers (whether the CA bar posted answers or Barbri). My issue was that I wanted to point out all of the issues in which stressed me out because of course, I could never get every single issue.

As for PT, I’ll my strategy is to start with it as it’s a completely new “topic” that your mind is unfamiliar with. So you will take more time in trying to form a good essay around the topic. Unlike the essays, you are familiar with the topic and can easily point out at least few issues and draft few lines on them. Plus, PT is worth more (the score of two esssays combined).

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MBernard

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:41 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:Several friends and I who passed in July 17 allotted 1:50 for the PT, and I’d recommend it. We all thought having an extra 20% plus time over the average test taker was worth it given it is worth twice as much. A 75 on the PT lets you “pass”/average out at 65 in the afternoon session with two 55 essays. I felt confident my PT at least had to be an 85- I incorporated every relevant fact I found and nailed every issue discussed in the model answer.

I could tell by an initial read on of the afternoon questions that I would not do well on it. I ended up going 1:50 for PT, 1:05 for essay I felt good about, and 0:35 for the other and did not even outline it. I felt comfortable enough with PT and other essay that I knew I left the afternoon session with a strong point surplus, even with a probable 55 on the final essay.

I think the bar can be gamed to a large degree. If you focus on MBE, PT, and PR, you’ve accounted for roughly 2/3 of the points if PR is a crossover, and over 70% if PR is its own question.

Good luck!


Also agree, 1:50 seems to be the way to go. A friend of mine who passed Ca this Feb also allotted 1:50 for the PT and said it greatly helped.

From my own past experience in another state, 1 hr and 30 gives you enough time to get the PT correct but if I had a little extra time I think I could’ve earned more points on the thing. If you have extra time after the PT you can always go back and spend it with an essay. Those are just my thoughts.

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BlueLaw11

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby BlueLaw11 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:14 pm

How are people here approaching the CA distinctions for the essay topics (in particular, Evidence)? I'm trying to learn them and I'm concerned it will cause me to get confused with the FRE for the MBE portion... wondering if I should just assume we won't get any CA distinctions on Civ Pro/Evidence/PR and wing it need be?

psg190

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby psg190 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:21 pm

BlueLaw11 wrote:How are people here approaching the CA distinctions for the essay topics (in particular, Evidence)? I'm trying to learn them and I'm concerned it will cause me to get confused with the FRE for the MBE portion... wondering if I should just assume we won't get any CA distinctions on Civ Pro/Evidence/PR and wing it need be?

I highly doubt we'd be so lucky.

zr3sg

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby zr3sg » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:01 pm

BlueLaw11 wrote:How are people here approaching the CA distinctions for the essay topics (in particular, Evidence)? I'm trying to learn them and I'm concerned it will cause me to get confused with the FRE for the MBE portion... wondering if I should just assume we won't get any CA distinctions on Civ Pro/Evidence/PR and wing it need be?


We're basically guaranteed that PR will be on the exam so those distinctions you probably need to know cold. CA civ pro was last tested July 2016 (after a very long time of not being tested) and I'm not sure when CA evidence was last tested... so both of those are probably fair game as well. One thing that may help is in your notes (typed or written) put the CA distinctions in one color and the federal rule as another- that has helped me keep them straight!

Nightcrawler

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Nightcrawler » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:34 pm

mrro wrote:Strongly considering doing the CPT first before the essays.

Reasons:
Brain will be fresher and process faster.
CPT is worth more points per time allotted. (2.2 pts/min v. 1.7 pts/min)

Thoughts? Pros? Cons?


I did the PT first last time and ended up finishing it in 2 hours. Too much, I know but the 65 I got on it made me pass the written portion. The essay I did in 30 minutes though got a 55. Will definitely do this again because it's better to have a 65 on the PT and a 55 on one essay than the other way around. This time though I'll definitely try to finish it in less than 2 hours.

In my opinion this is a no brainer. You will get a good score on the PT if you have time to read and reread the material and your answer. On the other hand, an essay in a weak subject is more likely to be bombed even with all the time in the world. Also, reading 20+ pages of the library/file after 2 essays and the time constraint is unbelievably draining for me. I tried also doing the PT for last and the result was that I rushed the essays (which both sucked) and rushed the PT too. Terrible. But I was also less prepared. Anyway, there are many subjective variables in considering this, so ultimately you need to think what would work best for you.

Nightcrawler

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Nightcrawler » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:33 pm

Speaking of predictions: I wonder if last time they mislabeled the Torts x Con Law (takings and trespass) as "Real Property" to confuse the prediction game. I wouldn't be surprised if this time Torts and/or Real Property will come up again, just to send everybody in a wtf state.

justanotheruser

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:50 am

Passed the 2/18 exam after multiple tries. There were so many moments where I could never believe I'd ever get the CA distinctions down. But what worked for me was outlining/issue spotting as many essays as possible and comparing answers on BarEssays. The biggest thing you realize is that there's only a finite number of distinctions that are tested (if at all) and they pop up over and over again. Honestly, the last two weeks were when I solidified the distinctions in my mind by ripping through tons of essays every day.

BlueLaw11 wrote:How are people here approaching the CA distinctions for the essay topics (in particular, Evidence)? I'm trying to learn them and I'm concerned it will cause me to get confused with the FRE for the MBE portion... wondering if I should just assume we won't get any CA distinctions on Civ Pro/Evidence/PR and wing it need be?

Angel66

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Angel66 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:34 am

Nightcrawler wrote:Speaking of predictions: I wonder if last time they mislabeled the Torts x Con Law (takings and trespass) as "Real Property" to confuse the prediction game. I wouldn't be surprised if this time Torts and/or Real Property will come up again, just to send everybody in a wtf state.


Completely agreed. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw them label that essay as “Property”. Seriously? It almost has nothing to do with Property.

barprepforca

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby barprepforca » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:01 pm

Hey all... so one of my greatest fears during this thing is that I get to the testing center, ready to go, only to freeze up and totally forget all the law I learned up until that point. Did that happen to anyone on their first go around, and if so, what did you do to counter it in subsequent tests you took?

xonimi

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby xonimi » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being very prepared, how ready do you guys feel at this point? I still feel really unprepared and there's only a week left. :cry:



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