2018 July California Bar

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a male human

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:40 pm

LockBox wrote:
a male human wrote:I've been noticing a lot of people wanting predictions. I don't want to tell people what to do, as it is their bar exam and their future they're gambling. It's just one approach to preparing.

I personally don't recommend putting in much stock in predictions. They're fun to ruminate over and useful to an extent but not something to obsess over (unless you're desperate for time). I've been burned before. Plus, whose predictions are you supposed to listen to? If you overlap everyone's predictions, you just get the list of tested subjects.

One way to focus down your essay subjects is to see which ones appeared Tuesday morning and review the remaining subjects for the afternoon session.


Although on the bar that I passed, we had contracts on tuesday and on thursday another contracts Q showed up...

Truly, no one is safe from the tyranny of the bar.

psg190

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby psg190 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:23 pm

Any tips if you're essentially failing every closed book essay at this point? Missing major issues, not having rule statements down, etc. This is in addition to feeling entirely uncomfortable on the MBE.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:16 pm

psg190 wrote:Any tips if you're essentially failing every closed book essay at this point? Missing major issues, not having rule statements down, etc. This is in addition to feeling entirely uncomfortable on the MBE.


I was in that same exact position last summer, I’ll try and offer some insight. I was scheduled to take the TBX last July when I was hit with massive complications (major family illness plus financial hardship). It was bad and I knew despite some preparation there was no way I could take the test because all my mental energy was drained and I barely could focus. I didn’t have the confidence or the requisite knowledge, so I ended up deferring until Feb...

That being said, it was a very long wait until Feb. I worked and studied up until the exam but it was exhausting. Ultimately, I passed by good margin and improved a lot of my weaknesses but I nonetheless had a lot of regret as to whether I made the right call.

I’d suggest doing some serious self-assessment. Is it just nerves or do you truly not understand the material? Only you know all the details. A lot of people will say that since you paid for the exam you should therefore attend, but if you know there’s no way you’re going to pass I’m not sure if there’s really any value in attendance.

That being said, there is still 18 days left. If there’s any remote possibility you can get yourself on track and where you need to be then I’d highly reccomend staying the course. I’d only commit to deferral if you know there’s just no way.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby maiden42 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:31 pm

psg190 wrote:Any tips if you're essentially failing every closed book essay at this point? Missing major issues, not having rule statements down, etc. This is in addition to feeling entirely uncomfortable on the MBE.


This. Although for me, I am crushing MBE but when it comes to CA essays..... totally blank on non-MBE topics. I cannot name a single difference in CA Civ Pro, CA Evidence.... no idea what to do.

Read Essays on Bar Essays? Flashcard Rules? Review Lean/Magic Sheets? Halp.

I have all the rules from various supplements, just not sure how to proceed.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby dabigchina » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:00 pm

maiden42 wrote:
psg190 wrote:Any tips if you're essentially failing every closed book essay at this point? Missing major issues, not having rule statements down, etc. This is in addition to feeling entirely uncomfortable on the MBE.


This. Although for me, I am crushing MBE but when it comes to CA essays..... totally blank on non-MBE topics. I cannot name a single difference in CA Civ Pro, CA Evidence.... no idea what to do.

Read Essays on Bar Essays? Flashcard Rules? Review Lean/Magic Sheets? Halp.

I have all the rules from various supplements, just not sure how to proceed.

Same. I think it's pretty normal at this point tbh, because most of the memorization is going to happen in these last couple of weeks.

Regarding deferring July: IDK if deferring would be a good idea TBH. You've already paid the money, so you might as well take the exam and see where the chips fall. Worse comes to worst, you just take it again in Feb anyway.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby psg190 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:22 pm

MBernard wrote: I’d suggest doing some serious self-assessment. Is it just nerves or do you truly not understand the material? Only you know all the details. A lot of people will say that since you paid for the exam you should therefore attend, but if you know there’s no way you’re going to pass I’m not sure if there’s really any value in attendance.

That being said, there is still 18 days left. If there’s any remote possibility you can get yourself on track and where you need to be then I’d highly reccomend staying the course. I’d only commit to deferral if you know there’s just no way.

Appreciate the feedback and sorry for the difficulties you went through last year.

For me it's a matter of not knowing the materials. I've completed 95%+ of the Barbri assignments, but it's basically all been in one ear and out the other to date. I'm several years removed from law school and never practiced law - I actually hated law school. However, my employer requires me to have bar passage at some point down the line to keep moving up the promotion chain.

dabigchina wrote:Regarding deferring July: IDK if deferring would be a good idea TBH. You've already paid the money, so you might as well take the exam and see where the chips fall. Worse comes to worst, you just take it again in Feb anyway.


I was thinking I could save myself the stress of the event and the $500 hotel charge. The CA bar doesn't like to let its chips fall to the grossly under-prepared.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:31 pm

In response to the recent posts about essays:

If you're not "getting" essays, try looking at the big picture. Model answers are good for checking that you can do this, but maybe not in the way you think. They are often overwhelming.

What you want to focus on (and are the starting points for racking up points) when you answer essays (or outline) are the issue and the rules. Of course the application and the conclusion are important also, but without getting the issues in the first place, you can't sprout any IRACs (points). Law schools and bar programs are rather adamant about analysis, which is indeed important for real life. I think it's a bit different here. Once you get down the issues and rules, the rest should hopefully flow out naturally, curing the feeling of "blank."

To do this, you have several options:

- Just start shifting your focus to hitting the I+R (maybe this change in approach was all you needed, awesome)
- Create a list of issues from subject-matter outlines from the state bar (the weakness of the bar is that it can only test you on a finite pool of issues; that's why hypos are called fact PATTERNS--because they repeat themselves in different flavors)

This is an example of fleshed-out testable if-then issue triggers and flowchart for Evidence: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8o0351agv5exv ... e.pdf?dl=0

Memorizing and reviewing are all well and good, but remember the exam tests you on how well you can remember and resolve the issues. It doesn't ask you to "please memorize these rules." Hence, I recommend that at least half of your focus at this point be practice (and feedback/self-critique), the other half being outline review and what not. In the last two weeks, slide that over to 2/3 practice.

Going back to the first thing I said above, model answers are great for checking that you got the issues and rules right. You're already halfway home if you can lay out a clean, solid I+R outline; it will also be evident to the graders in the final product. It will just be frustrating if you get lost in the weeds in the details of the facts (which can vary depending on who's answering the essay). It will also be frustrating if you choose the "safe" route of memorizing rules, reading outlines, watching lectures, etc. and hoping you will be able to use them when the time comes. Why not internalize the rules by using them in the context of the essays?

Sorry for the lengthy discussion. Not much else to do on a train with spotty Wi-Fi (first time riding the Amtrak Pacific Surfliner)!

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby santoki » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:57 am

Even if an arrest is invalid, police can conduct a search incident to the invalid arrest if it is constitutionally valid (reasonable suspicion + probable cause).

Why does this not violate the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine?

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:49 am

Passed the 2/18 bar here after multiple tries.

I relate so much to what everyone's been saying here. I can't tell you how much time I wasted agonizing over predictions and trying to eliminate as many essay topics to study as an easy out.

The thing easy, looking for the easy way out didn't get me far. So, when I finally passed, I ended up covering my bases. While I did more essays for subjects more likely to show up, I still did 4-5 essays for subjects that had shown up on the bar exam right before (July 2017).

Where I did incorporate predictions or simple process of elimination was sub-issues. In July 2017, there was a remedies question on equitable remedies (TRO/PI/etc.), so I didn't really practice them for the Feb 2018 exam.

Best of luck to everyone!

a male human wrote:I've been noticing a lot of people wanting predictions. I don't want to tell people what to do, as it is their bar exam and their future they're gambling. It's just one approach to preparing.

I personally don't recommend putting in much stock in predictions. They're fun to ruminate over and useful to an extent but not something to obsess over (unless you're desperate for time). I've been burned before. Plus, whose predictions are you supposed to listen to? If you overlap everyone's predictions, you just get the list of tested subjects.

One way to focus down your essay subjects is to see which ones appeared Tuesday morning and review the remaining subjects for the afternoon session.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby dabigchina » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:07 am

psg190 wrote:
MBernard wrote: I’d suggest doing some serious self-assessment. Is it just nerves or do you truly not understand the material? Only you know all the details. A lot of people will say that since you paid for the exam you should therefore attend, but if you know there’s no way you’re going to pass I’m not sure if there’s really any value in attendance.

That being said, there is still 18 days left. If there’s any remote possibility you can get yourself on track and where you need to be then I’d highly reccomend staying the course. I’d only commit to deferral if you know there’s just no way.

Appreciate the feedback and sorry for the difficulties you went through last year.

For me it's a matter of not knowing the materials. I've completed 95%+ of the Barbri assignments, but it's basically all been in one ear and out the other to date. I'm several years removed from law school and never practiced law - I actually hated law school. However, my employer requires me to have bar passage at some point down the line to keep moving up the promotion chain.

dabigchina wrote:Regarding deferring July: IDK if deferring would be a good idea TBH. You've already paid the money, so you might as well take the exam and see where the chips fall. Worse comes to worst, you just take it again in Feb anyway.


I was thinking I could save myself the stress of the event and the $500 hotel charge. The CA bar doesn't like to let its chips fall to the grossly under-prepared.


Still worth a shot, imo. Still, it's your money.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby xonimi » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:57 pm

How are you guys memorizing for the essays? I have Critical Pass flashcards and they've been ok for the most part but unfortunately they don't have CA specific cards so I'm not sure how to go about memorizing for CA subjects. I've started making flashcards but I don't know if that's a good use of my time.

Also, is anyone still in the process of learning the material? It seems like everyone is at the memorize and review stage and it makes me nervous. I still need to cover most of CP and Wills

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby dabigchina » Sat Jul 07, 2018 2:31 pm

xonimi wrote:How are you guys memorizing for the essays? I have Critical Pass flashcards and they've been ok for the most part but unfortunately they don't have CA specific cards so I'm not sure how to go about memorizing for CA subjects. I've started making flashcards but I don't know if that's a good use of my time.

Also, is anyone still in the process of learning the material? It seems like everyone is at the memorize and review stage and it makes me nervous. I still need to cover most of CP and Wills

CP and wills are surprisingly straightforward. I think you'll be fine.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby rudejudethedude » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:17 pm

xonimi wrote:How are you guys memorizing for the essays? I have Critical Pass flashcards and they've been ok for the most part but unfortunately they don't have CA specific cards so I'm not sure how to go about memorizing for CA subjects. I've started making flashcards but I don't know if that's a good use of my time.

Also, is anyone still in the process of learning the material? It seems like everyone is at the memorize and review stage and it makes me nervous. I still need to cover most of CP and Wills


Hello there!
I'm using CP flashcards as well and I've just incorporated the CA civ pro and CA evidence rules on the corresponding cards.
At this point in my studies, I'm comfortable with everything but CA specific rules. I feel like that's a pretty good place to be considering these subjects have a smaller variation in materials actually tested. Also, when you practice fed civ/evidence essays, just jot down the CA rules you remember that would fit into the response.

For the other subjects that wouldn't be in CP, (trusts/wills, agency/partnership, com prop, corps) I wouldn't focus on "learning" the material at this point. You should start moving into the mindset of trying to maximize points. My personal strategy has been to practice writing rule statements I find in the Barbri rubrics; I learn mostly from repetition either handwritten or typing.

Hope this helps! Good luck.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:43 pm

a male human wrote:One way to focus down your essay subjects is to see which ones appeared Tuesday morning and review the remaining subjects for the afternoon session.


I noticed a ton of people doing that and trying to strategize during the break at the last Bar Exam I took. Not sure about the value of that kind of last minute prep though. I definitely understand the desire as it’s mentally satisfying to conform to the surrounding environment and do what everyone else is doing. But it seems unnecessarily stressful. Probably you’re just going to end up falling back on whatever connections or mnemonic devices you’ve used.

Only reason why I brought this up is because I’ve been tempted to do this myself but I think it’s ultimately more beneficial to trust yourself and allow yourself the brief break to relax.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:01 pm

MBernard wrote:
a male human wrote:One way to focus down your essay subjects is to see which ones appeared Tuesday morning and review the remaining subjects for the afternoon session.


I noticed a ton of people doing that and trying to strategize during the break at the last Bar Exam I took. Not sure about the value of that kind of last minute prep though. I definitely understand the desire as it’s mentally satisfying to conform to the surrounding environment and do what everyone else is doing. But it seems unnecessarily stressful. Probably you’re just going to end up falling back on whatever connections or mnemonic devices you’ve used.

Only reason why I brought this up is because I’ve been tempted to do this myself but I think it’s ultimately more beneficial to trust yourself and allow yourself the brief break to relax.

Definitely, a rested brain is a productive brain. You're probably not learning anything new at that point, though one might also feel that anticipating expected subjects takes away some of the stress. Maybe mentally cross off the morning subjects and take a nap? Whatever works for you.

Worst case, you still have your ol' friends: adrenaline and bullshit.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby psg190 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:52 pm

Random aside: do all of the other testing center locations put takers at risk of a potential multi-minute walk to the restrooms like Oakland does? A bio break there could cost you a few MBE questions depending on where you're seated.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby siriuslysaucy422 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:41 am

santoki wrote:Even if an arrest is invalid, police can conduct a search incident to the invalid arrest if it is constitutionally valid (reasonable suspicion + probable cause).

Why does this not violate the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine?


Evidence from an unconstitutional search is admissible if it's to (1) impeach the testimony of D, (2) independent source (a source unrelated to the search provides information about the seized evidence), (3) inevitable discovery (there was some action in motion that would have resulted in the police discovering the seized evidence), or (4) attenuation (too much time or intervening events have broken the chain between the unconstitutional search and the seized evidence).

I hope that helps.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby ContingentRemainder » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:36 am

maiden42 wrote:
psg190 wrote:Any tips if you're essentially failing every closed book essay at this point? Missing major issues, not having rule statements down, etc. This is in addition to feeling entirely uncomfortable on the MBE.


This. Although for me, I am crushing MBE but when it comes to CA essays..... totally blank on non-MBE topics. I cannot name a single difference in CA Civ Pro, CA Evidence.... no idea what to do.

Read Essays on Bar Essays? Flashcard Rules? Review Lean/Magic Sheets? Halp.

I have all the rules from various supplements, just not sure how to proceed.


THIS! I spent so much time on my MBE game, I am just starting to catch up with CA subjects. Thinking of mostly outlining at this point to teach myself quicker, any thoughts on this? I did this today with community property and remedies and it seems to have worked.

I think I'll learn more of the law quicker this way, but I'm worried that I'm going to have issues finishing essays in time if I don't get enough practice doing full essays (my timing with outlines for essays is pretty consistent, but then I often find myself rushing to finish answers when I write them out).

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Blueplanet » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:07 am

May be an silly question but not mentioned on the list of permitted items with laptops - are we permitted to bring our power adaptors into the exam? And does the same apply to travel adaptors (if you have a foreign socket). Thanks.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby MBernard » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:18 pm

Blueplanet wrote:May be an silly question but not mentioned on the list of permitted items with laptops - are we permitted to bring our power adaptors into the exam? And does the same apply to travel adaptors (if you have a foreign socket). Thanks.


Power cords are permitted (http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... ng-Laptops).

Travel adaptors aren’t specifically mentioned in the laptop FAQ page (maybe I missed it), I don’t think it’d be a big deal but idk. I’d bring it along and disclose it to security before entering the Secured zone to be on the safe side.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Underoath » Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:11 pm

The doubt and insecurity starts setting in for me around this time. Even with MBE...I'll get questions right, but then I still just don't TRUST myself when doing the questions. Multiple test taker here, if I don't pass this time I will have to go to a UBE state and pass there, come back and do Federal law or pick another field altogether. Going on over 3 years since I have graduated.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:39 am

Hey man, I passed the 2/18 CA bar after multiple failures.

I can totally relate to what you're saying. All I can say is if you've trusted the process and are daily putting in the smart/hard work, I think things will go your way. Best of luck!

Underoath wrote:The doubt and insecurity starts setting in for me around this time. Even with MBE...I'll get questions right, but then I still just don't TRUST myself when doing the questions. Multiple test taker here, if I don't pass this time I will have to go to a UBE state and pass there, come back and do Federal law or pick another field altogether. Going on over 3 years since I have graduated.

hearsay77

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby hearsay77 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:28 pm

I apologize if this has been asked before, but what score/percentage on practice tests (for Themis specifically, if that matters) should I be shooting for to be in "passing range"?

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:02 pm

Hey everyone,

Although you should strive for it, you shouldn't be "passing" all of your practice exams right now. In fact, I knew several people (myself included) that consistently scored 55's (with a few 65's and the occasional 80) leading up to exam day. My advice is to practice testing yourself (whether you are outlining or writing out full essays). Simulate test conditions and if you bomb, learn what you didn't know.

But you have to go through that "failure" a lot of times. Remember, the only time you need to pass is game day and past failures are not (necessarily) indicative of future performance.

Keep grinding and don't succumb to the mental struggle.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Postby Underoath » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:30 pm

justanotheruser wrote:Hey man, I passed the 2/18 CA bar after multiple failures.

I can totally relate to what you're saying. All I can say is if you've trusted the process and are daily putting in the smart/hard work, I think things will go your way. Best of luck!

Underoath wrote:The doubt and insecurity starts setting in for me around this time. Even with MBE...I'll get questions right, but then I still just don't TRUST myself when doing the questions. Multiple test taker here, if I don't pass this time I will have to go to a UBE state and pass there, come back and do Federal law or pick another field altogether. Going on over 3 years since I have graduated.


Thanks. I appreciate it and congrats on passing.



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