2018 July California Bar Forum

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estefanchanning

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by estefanchanning » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:45 am

bacillusanthracis wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
AspiringAspirant wrote:
estefanchanning wrote:
bacillusanthracis wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:I had the same issue. The essays were my downfall. But taking a LOT of time to look through real examples that scored 55, 65, 75 and comparing them to my own was instrumental in figuring out what I was doing right and wrong and what the graders were looking for. Eventually I just got it. A 6k tutor wouldn't have done that for me.
One should never spend that much money on a tutor. It''s highway robbery. I even ran into someone who wanted NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS for her course. Sure, I guess the market will bear whatever someone is willing to pay, but taking advantage of desperate students is just wrong.

Anyway, some people will not "just get it." I didn't, and I'm a published writer and have edited unpublishable material into material that got published. I also write damn good trial briefs/P&A's for attorneys that are instrumental in winning at trial. However, my writing background may have worked against me because the bar exam is it's own little universe, applicable to little else. IOW, I think I thought more or less that since I've been successful writing in A, B, and C ways, I should be successful here too. But nope.

So I did need someone who could look at my essays and effectively communicate to me what it was I needed to do. Fortunately, I got that for considerably less than 6K.

For 6K, someone better be offering the entire course as many times as one needs to take it in order to pass. Hell, with Barbri you get a free re-do and they're what, about $3500-$4000?
Idk if the 9k tutor is taking advantage of anyone. Her rate is her rate. The market has other options--if someone doesn't want to pay 9k they can go to a hundred other tutors.

By that logic, that's like saying a burger with gold flakes on it selling for 2k is "taking advantage of desperately hungry people"
It's definitely taking advantage of students. Her rate is her rate precisely because she knows there are desperate law students willing to spend way more than they should.

It's like predatory law schools charging absurd rates for attendance when they know the service provided isn't nearly worth the cost. Did the students who attend these law schools have other options? Sure. Does the market demand allow for those law schools to charge those prices? Sure. Does any of that make those law schools blameless for preying on desperate folks who don't know any better? Hell no
I think you're both right. People become very desperate when it comes to the CBX, so is she taking advantage charging 9k for her program? Probably.

But at the same time, everyone is an adult, and I assume people have done some reasonable level of research before hiring her for 9k. If they haven't, they really should. She should have a sterling success rate. Though I wouldn't even pay 9k for someone to clone a smarter version of me to take the exam.

Honestly though, I still find it hard to believe that anyone is getting someone to nearly pay them 10k. That's bananas.
Considering the many thousands people who fail the California bar exam every year, all she has to do is find 20 people who attach value to a price tag, and she's making pretty damn good money. That is, some people will think a thing is more valuable if it's expensive.

It's the story of Tag Heuer watches. When the watch was first put on the market, the company was trying to compete in the lower end range of watches, but they weren't selling. So they hired a marketing firm that told them to leave the product as is, but charge three or four times as much. That's when Tag Heuer really took off. People weren't willing to buy it for $200, but at $600-$800, they were.

So that's what this lady does. I don't know what her success rate is, but if it's higher than average, some of that may come from confidence alone. "If I'm paying this much for this service, it must be good!" But there's also the factor of perception. If you think you got a good deal, then you got a good deal.

To each their own I guess, but I felt like I got sleaze on me just talking to her over the phone.
I still don't understand how she is taking advantage of anyone. Sure, maybe she is sleazy. But not rapacious.

Let's assume she will guarantee that you pass. If I had a disposable 9k, I would happily fork it over. If I didn't, I'm not going to mortgage my house so I can get a loan and pay her. I will just pay less for a different tutor.

I don't think you are giving law students enough credit. They're smart enough to make reasonable choices. They not gullible. This situation is unlike an HIV/AIDS pharma company that gouges it's customers fully knowing there are no other alternatives.

mathandthelaw

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by mathandthelaw » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:38 pm

I really think that bar tutors that are over-priced should honestly be a last resort. Don't pay more than you have to, in my opinion.

I think it's all about having the right tools. The Barbri Mini Conviser (and making your own outlines which is what I did), commercial outlines, doing all the past Bar essays which are all free online, Emmanuals S&Ts and Adaptibar for multiple choice. PTs that are 90 minute other than Calbar are available from other jxs. I cannot emphasize enough doing at least one simulated MBE and essay/PT day was instrumental for my success.

From there, it takes discipline and practice. Admittedly, getting feedback is super important. I liked having that feedback from Barbri so I had peace of mind that I was generally passing my essays and PTs. The feedback for me wasn't even what helped me as much as just feeling like I can pass actual bar essays and hoping Barbri was right. I learned best from studying and repetition and reviewing enough sample essays. The Barbri lectures were nice but you honestly don't need to pay for a course if it's cheaper to just get all the resources and do it yourself.

To ensure passing, quality 8 hour study days every day (remember quality over quantity, some people can do a vigorous 6 hours and be more effective than a person doing 10 hours). I also had a study group and that was helpful for my success too. I didn't feel alone and everyone was accountable for one another, not to mention asking questions and resolving ambiguities.

In real life, that's exactly what I have to do. You are expected to conduct research and look at examples and then draft documents for clients. You probably won't get feedback on every document you draft as a new attorney. If they ask you to draft a document then you just have to draft it, the supervisor makes his/her edits, and then you file it or send to the client. So, if you really need a personalized tutor to review for 20+ essays you write, I really think you should put more effort and research into learning how you can write a passing essay. Because you need to have that skill of being able to learn from examples as a lawyer. And instead of paying for a private tutor, you can pay for a personalized graded essay from what I understand from Barsecrets and others.

So just keep in mind that while it may seem as an investment, don't waste your money if you don't have to. Really push yourself and learn. And buy the right resources. I made a few mistakes on my essays and I still passed the CalBX on my first try, and this isn't to brag, it's simply to point out you are NOT striving for perfection.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:28 pm

^^ while I generally agree with the above, I will say, that for my peace of mind having my essays reviewed and critiqued by a former cbx grader was key for me. Barbri graders were kind of all over the place, and while they had a cut sheet, I just felt so much better with someone who had been in the trenches and had a good idea of what a bar grader would focus on.

When I took the exam, I understood that there was a "holistic" approach to essay grading so it while the issues were important it was also important to know what the average bar grader was going to look for that wasn't in a cut sheet. Like you're probably going to miss an issue or two, but what is it that is going to get you a passing score in spite of the fact that you missed an issue or two. They get so little time to grade each essay, so I needed to know all the tricks and how to correctly put them into practice.

My only point would be that not all graders or grading services are equal. And before you fork over any money, you should think about what you want to get out of a service.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by mathandthelaw » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:48 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:^^ while I generally agree with the above, I will say, that for my peace of mind having my essays reviewed and critiqued by a former cbx grader was key for me. Barbri graders were kind of all over the place, and while they had a cut sheet, I just felt so much better with someone who had been in the trenches and had a good idea of what a bar grader would focus on.

When I took the exam, I understood that there was a "holistic" approach to essay grading so it while the issues were important it was also important to know what the average bar grader was going to look for that wasn't in a cut sheet. Like you're probably going to miss an issue or two, but what is it that is going to get you a passing score in spite of the fact that you missed an issue or two. They get so little time to grade each essay, so I needed to know all the tricks and how to correctly put them into practice.

My only point would be that not all graders or grading services are equal. And before you fork over any money, you should think about what you want to get out of a service.
I hear ya. I'm glad it was helpful for you, and that is what matters most. We're all different in our learning styles, but we all have to pass the same test. I don't have experience with private tutors, nor paying for a graded essay(s) from different vendors. I just used Barbri (with a very good school discount) and my experience was that it was cookie-cutter. Luckily, their feedback and reviewing enough past bar exam essays seemed to work for me.

I suppose it just depends on the person. Not everyone needs to pay $$ for a private tutor who will grade essays. But some will find it helpful and worth the investment. By all means, if you are doing well enough financially, then I think the right grading service (like you said) may be worth the money. Unfortunately, some of us are really strapped for cash. I'm very poor and I have outstanding debt due to current and past medical treatment. I was able to pass with only spending a whopping total of $700 in preparation. But results are not always the same for each person.

I also recommend making friends with people from school or from here and getting study groups together and splitting costs for some resources too if you can. I actually borrowed a few things from some fellow bar passers from my school as well.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:13 pm

mathandthelaw wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:^^ while I generally agree with the above, I will say, that for my peace of mind having my essays reviewed and critiqued by a former cbx grader was key for me. Barbri graders were kind of all over the place, and while they had a cut sheet, I just felt so much better with someone who had been in the trenches and had a good idea of what a bar grader would focus on.

When I took the exam, I understood that there was a "holistic" approach to essay grading so it while the issues were important it was also important to know what the average bar grader was going to look for that wasn't in a cut sheet. Like you're probably going to miss an issue or two, but what is it that is going to get you a passing score in spite of the fact that you missed an issue or two. They get so little time to grade each essay, so I needed to know all the tricks and how to correctly put them into practice.

My only point would be that not all graders or grading services are equal. And before you fork over any money, you should think about what you want to get out of a service.
I hear ya. I'm glad it was helpful for you, and that is what matters most. We're all different in our learning styles, but we all have to pass the same test. I don't have experience with private tutors, nor paying for a graded essay(s) from different vendors. I just used Barbri (with a very good school discount) and my experience was that it was cookie-cutter. Luckily, their feedback and reviewing enough past bar exam essays seemed to work for me.

I suppose it just depends on the person. Not everyone needs to pay $$ for a private tutor who will grade essays. But some will find it helpful and worth the investment. By all means, if you are doing well enough financially, then I think the right grading service (like you said) may be worth the money. Unfortunately, some of us are really strapped for cash. I'm very poor and I have outstanding debt due to current and past medical treatment. I was able to pass with only spending a whopping total of $700 in preparation. But results are not always the same for each person.

I also recommend making friends with people from school or from here and getting study groups together and splitting costs for some resources too if you can. I actually borrowed a few things from some fellow bar passers from my school as well.
Totally agree, and when I took the exam writing was like 65% of the score. If I took it now, I may not have worried as much about the writing.

That's amazing that you passed with limited resources and you own moxie and smarts. That is to be congratulated and admired.

But 9k? Nope, not even if I had it handy. It's just the principal of the thing. Same reason I refuse to pay 10 cents for a plastic bag. It's only 10 cents but I can't do it. I mean 9k is a decent used late, base model Nissan Versa. You're paying this woman as much as you'd pay for a car! Bananas!

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mathandthelaw

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by mathandthelaw » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:^^ while I generally agree with the above, I will say, that for my peace of mind having my essays reviewed and critiqued by a former cbx grader was key for me. Barbri graders were kind of all over the place, and while they had a cut sheet, I just felt so much better with someone who had been in the trenches and had a good idea of what a bar grader would focus on.

When I took the exam, I understood that there was a "holistic" approach to essay grading so it while the issues were important it was also important to know what the average bar grader was going to look for that wasn't in a cut sheet. Like you're probably going to miss an issue or two, but what is it that is going to get you a passing score in spite of the fact that you missed an issue or two. They get so little time to grade each essay, so I needed to know all the tricks and how to correctly put them into practice.

My only point would be that not all graders or grading services are equal. And before you fork over any money, you should think about what you want to get out of a service.
I hear ya. I'm glad it was helpful for you, and that is what matters most. We're all different in our learning styles, but we all have to pass the same test. I don't have experience with private tutors, nor paying for a graded essay(s) from different vendors. I just used Barbri (with a very good school discount) and my experience was that it was cookie-cutter. Luckily, their feedback and reviewing enough past bar exam essays seemed to work for me.

I suppose it just depends on the person. Not everyone needs to pay $$ for a private tutor who will grade essays. But some will find it helpful and worth the investment. By all means, if you are doing well enough financially, then I think the right grading service (like you said) may be worth the money. Unfortunately, some of us are really strapped for cash. I'm very poor and I have outstanding debt due to current and past medical treatment. I was able to pass with only spending a whopping total of $700 in preparation. But results are not always the same for each person.

I also recommend making friends with people from school or from here and getting study groups together and splitting costs for some resources too if you can. I actually borrowed a few things from some fellow bar passers from my school as well.
Totally agree, and when I took the exam writing was like 65% of the score. If I took it now, I may not have worried as much about the writing.

That's amazing that you passed with limited resources and you own moxie and smarts. That is to be congratulated and admired.

But 9k? Nope, not even if I had it handy. It's just the principal of the thing. Same reason I refuse to pay 10 cents for a plastic bag. It's only 10 cents but I can't do it. I mean 9k is a decent used late, base model Nissan Versa. You're paying this woman as much as you'd pay for a car! Bananas!
I can see the even more heightened need for essay feedback when it was worth 2/3 of the exam. I personally agree, I would never spend $9k. And I have nothing against the woman who has the program. That is just far above the FMV.

While the compliment is appreciated sincerely, I wouldn't even necessarily attribute passing to my intelligence for me. I have some really smart friends who did not pass because of lack of proper preparation. I know a few people who are of average intelligence who passed this exam. Which is why you are right that the right preparation is so important. I should add that I took 2 months off and no work which was also why I was financially strapped for cash to prepare. And spent a minimum of 8 hours each day preparing. It was the dedication and the thought that I cannot afford to take this again that helped me pass, I think. Also being around smart and dedicated study buddies. I really can't emphasize personally how important it was to get advice from others on here on the options available for preparation, and the ability to study around people who were really smart. It was valuable expertise.

Remember friends, CBX does not define your intelligence. Preparation for the CBX does. For anyone who ever feels down on themselves that they didn't pass, or that you spent a lot on preparation while others didn't have to, or just purely lack the confidence in yourself due to anxiety, don't be that person. Don't let anyone scare you or make you feel any less than your cohorts. Just figure out early what will work for you to pass. Practice, practice, practice. Memorization with mnemonics, verbal communication, and repeated writing. Organized outlines. And mastery of the main subjects of each subject.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by Ramonlivliv » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:18 pm

:P
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:
Ramonlivliv wrote:I failed July 2017, got a 1313, took Kaplan. Took the UBE with Kaplan and passed in all jurisdictions. Took July 2018 California Bar and passed with Kaplan again. Only difference between the first two bar exams and the last one is that I used AdaptiBar. I would do real MBE questions. It just gets you in the right mode. Also, the last time, I just used Kaplan for some materials and grading essays. One difference between the MBE and California is that California wants your essays to be like law school essays. I feel like it’s a knowledge dump. California wants you to touch on everything, even if it’s just for a second and say why it does or doesn’t
Apply. For the MBe, if it doesn’t apply don’t talk about it. Anyways, I took the sample Kaplan essays and copy and pasted their ways to describe everything and just memorized everything. I had my girlfriend ask me for hours shit like “tell me everything you can about X remedy” etc. Talking it out really helped. I’m as obtuse and crass as they come, you can definitely pass! You even have time to look at your cellphone and text. Just be wise about it.

Wait what?

:shock:
While you study, not during the exam lol

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by Baghira » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:12 pm

Hi, I am depressed by really a very low scores for my essays this time and I've prepared a lot for the essays. I dont know what they want from me. Did anybody get 65 or higher on any essay on this bar exam? My score for the essays has never been more than 60 for this exam, and this is despite the fact that I am a good writer. Thanks!

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:02 pm

Hi everyone,

Sorry to be that girl, but I'm looking to gift someone a new set of critical pass flash cards for the holidays. I've seen a 10% off code but does anyone have a code for a deeper discount? If not that's cool. Thanks.

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barjamie8

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by barjamie8 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:06 pm

Baghira wrote:Hi, I am depressed by really a very low scores for my essays this time and I've prepared a lot for the essays. I dont know what they want from me. Did anybody get 65 or higher on any essay on this bar exam? My score for the essays has never been more than 60 for this exam, and this is despite the fact that I am a good writer. Thanks!
How did you study for the essays?

RAMSRAMS1

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by RAMSRAMS1 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:46 pm

I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by barjamie8 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:56 pm

RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
How did you prepare? I had the same issue the first time I took the exam.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by Nightcrawler » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:09 pm

RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
The bar exam has very little to do with law school. I went to a foreign law school, never cared about getting unnecessary high grades and passed the written part last February. This July I passed the whole damn thing, finally.

You just need to focus on how to beat the test. Forget that it's about the law. Your knowledge/understanding of the law is a very small piece of the puzzle.

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a male human

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by a male human » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:14 pm

RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
Yeah, I see people getting caught off guard because they got As in law school or went to HYS etc. (which sort of indicates that they know how to adapt to what's being tested (which helps them do well on exams and get the marks in the first place)).

That all helps, and it would help even more if they recognized what the bar tests also. How did you prepare for the essays this time?

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by JakeTappers » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:35 pm

RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
About the Same. And I booked several of my 1L classes, all of which were essay. Yet I got 65 on evidence and either 60 or 55 on the rest.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:45 pm

RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
I totally agree that it's about gaming the essays. It's why I got a writing tutor that was a former bar grader. Bar graders have even less time to read through your essays. I wanted feedback from someone who had been in those trenches.

No tea, no shade but I didn't trust Barbri essay graders either.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by scard » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:09 am

Folks, I hope this helps. I will post in the Feb 2019 thread as well.

Sign up for Barmax bar prep program and get the full course. do every MBE available (one subject per day in their main course and 50 subject specific questions per day. Write down one sentence rule statements that had you known before reading the question, you would've selected the right answer. Do the Last OPE exams last in one sitting each without explanations and tests.

Doing so, will also prepare you how to write for the essay portion for example, here is an answer explanation copied from Barmax:
Correct. Conspiracy requires (1) an agreement to commit a crime between two or more people, (2) an intent to enter into an agreement, (3) an intent to pursue an unlawful objective (i.e. meeting of the minds) and (4) an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Here, Jackson called Crowley to see if Crowley wanted to buy "hot" food stamps. Crowley knew "hot" meant stolen, and he agreed to buy them. However, Jackson did not mention that Jackson and Brannick still had to go out and steal the food stamps. Crowley had neither the intent to enter into an agreement to steal the food stamps nor the intent to steal the food stamps. Crowley may be guilty of receiving stolen food stamps but he is not guilty of conspiring to steal the food stamps. Therefore, Crowley should be found not guilty, because, although Crowley knew the stamps were stolen, he neither helped to plan nor participated or assisted in the theft.
This question was obviously about Conspiracy. So when your reading the bar exam question and you notice Conspiracy is an issue that needs discussing your answer should look very similar to the answer explanation above. Something like this:
Conspiracy

Correct.Conspiracy requires (1) an agreement to commit a crime between two or more people, (2) an intent to enter into an agreement, (3) an intent to pursue an unlawful objective (i.e. meeting of the minds) and (4) an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

[a]Here,[/s][REPLACE GREEN TEXT WITH YOUR FACT PATTERN]Jackson called Crowley to see if Crowley wanted to buy "hot" food stamps. Crowley knew "hot" meant stolen, and he agreed to buy them. However, Jackson did not mention that Jackson and Brannick still had to go out and steal the food stamps. Crowley had neither the intent to enter into an agreement to steal the food stamps nor the intent to steal the food stamps. Crowley may be guilty of receiving stolen food stamps but he is not guilty of conspiring to steal the food stamps. Therefore, [STRIKEOUT ONLY IF STARTING A NEW PARAGRAPH FOR CONCLUSION, OTHERWISE LEAVE IT IN]

Crowley should be found not guilty, because, although Crowley knew the stamps were stolen, he neither helped to plan nor participated or assisted in the theft.
So essentially the format should look exactly like this:
Conspiracy

Conspiracy requires (1) an agreement to commit a crime between two or more people, (2) an intent to enter into an agreement, (3) an intent to pursue an unlawful objective (i.e. meeting of the minds) and (4) an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Jackson called Crowley to see if Crowley wanted to buy "hot" food stamps. Crowley knew "hot" meant stolen, and he agreed to buy them. However, Jackson did not mention that Jackson and Brannick still had to go out and steal the food stamps. Crowley had neither the intent to enter into an agreement to steal the food stamps nor the intent to steal the food stamps. Crowley may be guilty of receiving stolen food stamps but he is not guilty of conspiring to steal the food stamps.

Crowley should be found not guilty, because, although Crowley knew the stamps were stolen, he neither helped to plan nor participated or assisted in the theft.
Essentially it is

Rule

Facts

Fact is rule because and/or it is not defeated by fact because analysis

Conclusion

THATS IT, THATS ALL IS NEEDED TO ADEQUATELY ANALYZE ONE ISSUE ON THE BAR EXAM. JUST REPEAT FOR EACH ISSUE AND SUB-ISSUE.

It's ok to break up paragraphs if it gets too long.You just don't want to start every other paragraph with "Here" or "in this case" or "however" or "Thus" or Therefore" Remember if you have to assume a fact to reach a conclusion or the fact is unknown keeping you from reaching a conclusion, chances are its not an issue worth discussing.

Hope this helps, this is what finally helped me pass so just do those MBE's and you will naturally start looking at every issue like a Barmax question/explanation.

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RAMSRAMS1

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by RAMSRAMS1 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:05 am

rcharter1978 wrote:
RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
I totally agree that it's about gaming the essays. It's why I got a writing tutor that was a former bar grader. Bar graders have even less time to read through your essays. I wanted feedback from someone who had been in those trenches.

No tea, no shade but I didn't trust Barbri essay graders either.
THIS, wrt to Barbi. I pretty much just trusted Barbi- i followed their essay instructions all the way and submitted all their essays for grading. I didn't find the feedback or fake grades helpful at all but just assumed I was on target to pass because "I went to a prestigious T14 and graduated with honors so people like me don't fail the bar."

This time around I'm finding baressays.com and other sites significantly more useful. I wish I would have gone outside of Barbri before...

mathandthelaw

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by mathandthelaw » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:53 pm

I did not go to a T14 law school, although I did graduate with honors. I knew that my honors meant nothing as far as the bar is concerned (it means a lot for resumes and jobs of course). The bar is a beast. You have to prepare and practice in time-testing conditions. Barbri is helpful for the resources it provides but it also requires you to know how you study most effectively. Do not do every assignment Barbri asks, only the ones that are helpful. For the essays, make sure you've written out/issue spotted every Calbar essay in the last like 15 years. Barbri takes essays from all over and they are very helpful, but know the Cal bar essays are the best to learn from (Barbri does not provide, free online). Have a shell outline memorized for each essay subject, especially the MBE subjects. Essays tend to appear over and over again. Contracts and con law were re-tests with different fact patterns, for example.

Anyone with a Juris Doctor education is capable of passing the bar. Don't think you can't, and don't think you will based on your past track record. It's all about discipline and excellent preparation.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by barjamie8 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:27 am

mathandthelaw wrote:I did not go to a T14 law school, although I did graduate with honors. I knew that my honors meant nothing as far as the bar is concerned (it means a lot for resumes and jobs of course). The bar is a beast. You have to prepare and practice in time-testing conditions. Barbri is helpful for the resources it provides but it also requires you to know how you study most effectively. Do not do every assignment Barbri asks, only the ones that are helpful. For the essays, make sure you've written out/issue spotted every Calbar essay in the last like 15 years. Barbri takes essays from all over and they are very helpful, but know the Cal bar essays are the best to learn from (Barbri does not provide, free online). Have a shell outline memorized for each essay subject, especially the MBE subjects. Essays tend to appear over and over again. Contracts and con law were re-tests with different fact patterns, for example.

Anyone with a Juris Doctor education is capable of passing the bar. Don't think you can't, and don't think you will based on your past track record. It's all about discipline and excellent preparation.
I wouldn't trust the ones on the cal bar website. They don't show you what it takes to get a 65, 70, 75. In fact the former head of the cal bar who was in charge of selecting those examples testified in front of a committee that they are a "terrible terrible disservice for people studying for the bar." You can see the video here - https://youtu.be/Z0c4cWCXZEA

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by barjamie8 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:35 am

RAMSRAMS1 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
RAMSRAMS1 wrote:I just need to vent about the essays. I went to a T14 and graduated with honors, always thought my law school exams were really damn good- NONE of my essays scored above a 60. I don't get it.
I totally agree that it's about gaming the essays. It's why I got a writing tutor that was a former bar grader. Bar graders have even less time to read through your essays. I wanted feedback from someone who had been in those trenches.

No tea, no shade but I didn't trust Barbri essay graders either.
THIS, wrt to Barbi. I pretty much just trusted Barbi- i followed their essay instructions all the way and submitted all their essays for grading. I didn't find the feedback or fake grades helpful at all but just assumed I was on target to pass because "I went to a prestigious T14 and graduated with honors so people like me don't fail the bar."

This time around I'm finding baressays.com and other sites significantly more useful. I wish I would have gone outside of Barbri before...
If it makes you feel any better, almost all people in your category (T14 good student) pass the second time. This is what I've heard from many tutors.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:11 am

barjamie8 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:I did not go to a T14 law school, although I did graduate with honors. I knew that my honors meant nothing as far as the bar is concerned (it means a lot for resumes and jobs of course). The bar is a beast. You have to prepare and practice in time-testing conditions. Barbri is helpful for the resources it provides but it also requires you to know how you study most effectively. Do not do every assignment Barbri asks, only the ones that are helpful. For the essays, make sure you've written out/issue spotted every Calbar essay in the last like 15 years. Barbri takes essays from all over and they are very helpful, but know the Cal bar essays are the best to learn from (Barbri does not provide, free online). Have a shell outline memorized for each essay subject, especially the MBE subjects. Essays tend to appear over and over again. Contracts and con law were re-tests with different fact patterns, for example.

Anyone with a Juris Doctor education is capable of passing the bar. Don't think you can't, and don't think you will based on your past track record. It's all about discipline and excellent preparation.
I wouldn't trust the ones on the cal bar website. They don't show you what it takes to get a 65, 70, 75. In fact the former head of the cal bar who was in charge of selecting those examples testified in front of a committee that they are a "terrible terrible disservice for people studying for the bar." You can see the video here - https://youtu.be/Z0c4cWCXZEA
Thanks for the video. He has a point.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by mathandthelaw » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:26 am

barjamie8 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:I did not go to a T14 law school, although I did graduate with honors. I knew that my honors meant nothing as far as the bar is concerned (it means a lot for resumes and jobs of course). The bar is a beast. You have to prepare and practice in time-testing conditions. Barbri is helpful for the resources it provides but it also requires you to know how you study most effectively. Do not do every assignment Barbri asks, only the ones that are helpful. For the essays, make sure you've written out/issue spotted every Calbar essay in the last like 15 years. Barbri takes essays from all over and they are very helpful, but know the Cal bar essays are the best to learn from (Barbri does not provide, free online). Have a shell outline memorized for each essay subject, especially the MBE subjects. Essays tend to appear over and over again. Contracts and con law were re-tests with different fact patterns, for example.

Anyone with a Juris Doctor education is capable of passing the bar. Don't think you can't, and don't think you will based on your past track record. It's all about discipline and excellent preparation.
I wouldn't trust the ones on the cal bar website. They don't show you what it takes to get a 65, 70, 75. In fact the former head of the cal bar who was in charge of selecting those examples testified in front of a committee that they are a "terrible terrible disservice for people studying for the bar." You can see the video here - https://youtu.be/Z0c4cWCXZEA
I think you misunderstood me, I meant that you should supplement taking those with Babri essays (or another course). I did past Calbar essays and I know I killed Contracts and Con Law for the simple reason that I had seen similar fact patterns before and knew exactly what they were looking for. Comm property was also rather similar to the past few years of comm prop essays. So that was also helpful. Certainly, you have to know what a passing essay versus a model answer essay looks like.
All I'm saying is, I passed and I did Babri + Calbar essays.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by barjamie8 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:29 pm

mathandthelaw wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:I did not go to a T14 law school, although I did graduate with honors. I knew that my honors meant nothing as far as the bar is concerned (it means a lot for resumes and jobs of course). The bar is a beast. You have to prepare and practice in time-testing conditions. Barbri is helpful for the resources it provides but it also requires you to know how you study most effectively. Do not do every assignment Barbri asks, only the ones that are helpful. For the essays, make sure you've written out/issue spotted every Calbar essay in the last like 15 years. Barbri takes essays from all over and they are very helpful, but know the Cal bar essays are the best to learn from (Barbri does not provide, free online). Have a shell outline memorized for each essay subject, especially the MBE subjects. Essays tend to appear over and over again. Contracts and con law were re-tests with different fact patterns, for example.

Anyone with a Juris Doctor education is capable of passing the bar. Don't think you can't, and don't think you will based on your past track record. It's all about discipline and excellent preparation.
I wouldn't trust the ones on the cal bar website. They don't show you what it takes to get a 65, 70, 75. In fact the former head of the cal bar who was in charge of selecting those examples testified in front of a committee that they are a "terrible terrible disservice for people studying for the bar." You can see the video here - https://youtu.be/Z0c4cWCXZEA
I think you misunderstood me, I meant that you should supplement taking those with Babri essays (or another course). I did past Calbar essays and I know I killed Contracts and Con Law for the simple reason that I had seen similar fact patterns before and knew exactly what they were looking for. Comm property was also rather similar to the past few years of comm prop essays. So that was also helpful. Certainly, you have to know what a passing essay versus a model answer essay looks like.
All I'm saying is, I passed and I did Babri + Calbar essays.
Congrats on passing! The big box review course essay prep did not work for me (and a majority of people) however.

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Re: 2018 July California Bar

Post by mathandthelaw » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:13 pm

barjamie8 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
mathandthelaw wrote:I did not go to a T14 law school, although I did graduate with honors. I knew that my honors meant nothing as far as the bar is concerned (it means a lot for resumes and jobs of course). The bar is a beast. You have to prepare and practice in time-testing conditions. Barbri is helpful for the resources it provides but it also requires you to know how you study most effectively. Do not do every assignment Barbri asks, only the ones that are helpful. For the essays, make sure you've written out/issue spotted every Calbar essay in the last like 15 years. Barbri takes essays from all over and they are very helpful, but know the Cal bar essays are the best to learn from (Barbri does not provide, free online). Have a shell outline memorized for each essay subject, especially the MBE subjects. Essays tend to appear over and over again. Contracts and con law were re-tests with different fact patterns, for example.

Anyone with a Juris Doctor education is capable of passing the bar. Don't think you can't, and don't think you will based on your past track record. It's all about discipline and excellent preparation.
I wouldn't trust the ones on the cal bar website. They don't show you what it takes to get a 65, 70, 75. In fact the former head of the cal bar who was in charge of selecting those examples testified in front of a committee that they are a "terrible terrible disservice for people studying for the bar." You can see the video here - https://youtu.be/Z0c4cWCXZEA
I think you misunderstood me, I meant that you should supplement taking those with Babri essays (or another course). I did past Calbar essays and I know I killed Contracts and Con Law for the simple reason that I had seen similar fact patterns before and knew exactly what they were looking for. Comm property was also rather similar to the past few years of comm prop essays. So that was also helpful. Certainly, you have to know what a passing essay versus a model answer essay looks like.
All I'm saying is, I passed and I did Babri + Calbar essays.
Congrats on passing! The big box review course essay prep did not work for me (and a majority of people) however.
I appreciate it. I'm sorry that the big box review course wasn't helpful. In fact, I COMPLETELY agree with you that Barbri (and I'm sure other standard bar prep courses) if followed to the tea are not necessarily the most effective method of passing the bar. I noticed after a month in that Barbri overworks students and a lot of the work is unnecessary. That's why in my initial post I recommended students only do the assignments that are helpful. They have a lot of essays in their essay book, as well as 90 minute PTs that are also useful. The Conviser mini outline book is also fantastic. The lectures were okay, helpful in the sense that it provides you with an outline shell and to hear the subjects in an auditory fashion. The simulated essay and multiple choice days were helpful, too. I got a sense of where I stood through each simulation and the Bar Exam atmosphere/pressure was not as intimidating because I had already experienced a full day of each.

I highly recommend Adaptibar/Emmanuals Strategies and Tactics for multiple choice. Flashcard the multiple choice question rules you get wrong. Critical pass flashcards are helpful. Memorize a shell outline for each subject. And I do recommend the past California Bar essays as a supplement to see the format of the Cal bar tests, the topics they have tested, and their style. For example, if Contracts anticipatory repudiation/adequate assurances was just tested in J18, then F19 will likely not have it, so I would know it for MBE but not focus on memorizing a rule statement, for example. Community property was just tested on J18, and it probably won't be another full essay unless mixed with wills, but still know it. But maybe don't write out 10 full CP essays. Maybe do 10 for wills, and write out like 5 CP essays. Focus on federal evidence. Still know CA evidence, but realize that it was just tested. Maybe do 5 Cal evidence essays, but 10 Cal Civ Pro essays. Cal Civ Pro or Federal civ pro is highly likely to be tested. You can never guess the essay subjects, and you can be assured that everything is fair game. But did I spend as much time on agency and partnerships as I did Business associations and community property? No, I didn't.

For me it was just practice, practice, practice, and memorization. I liked the Barbri resources, but I sort of figured out I needed to use my own methods too that are effective for me. There is no one-size-fits-all approach. But there are certain resources that are helpful. I should also add that I studied for a minimum of 8 hours a day every day, and didn't take a day off until the day and a half before the bar. So I don't know other people's study routines, and you don't have to study as many hours as I did, but definitely be efficient and put in as many hours as your brain can handle.

*Disclaimer: this approach may not work for everyone, but it worked for me.

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