Feb. 2018 Themis

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Neilt001

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Neilt001 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:00 pm

macgirl wrote:hope everyone's surviving!

Looking for some feedback on Exam 4... what was the average? what score were the reps saying we should be shooting for? Is there a "okay I can kinda breath if I fall within this percentage?" LOL


The avrg appears to have been 61, and I think if you're hitting the avrg you'll be fine. My rep said you'll be ok if you're in that range. I fell below 61 so hoping I'm not fucked for this exam...

JoLaw824

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:15 am

Anyone here have an Performance Test they have to answer during essay day? I'm taking PA... have only done 1 MPT (will do another tonight once I've sufficiently fried myself of all other practice), but I was hoping for a little last minute advice here. They tend to be worth a fair amount of points and in my last run at the bar (failed by 4 points), I never even bothered looking at one (obviously dumb).

Thank you all and good luck this week!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby PSK_246 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:54 am

JoLaw824 wrote:Anyone here have an Performance Test they have to answer during essay day? I'm taking PA... have only done 1 MPT (will do another tonight once I've sufficiently fried myself of all other practice), but I was hoping for a little last minute advice here. They tend to be worth a fair amount of points and in my last run at the bar (failed by 4 points), I never even bothered looking at one (obviously dumb).

Thank you all and good luck this week!


Themis has a good system here too. Read your assignment memo and note whether you will be writing predicatively or persuasively, and whether your audience is a layperson or someone with legal training. Then go to the library and read the statute and the cases. You'll be able to build the general framework of your answer from that. Then read the case file or whatever, and plug the information from that into your framework from the library. Remember your goal, approach, and audience the whole time. Themis recommends 90 min for this and in my practice runs I almost always use all of the time.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:47 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:Anyone here have an Performance Test they have to answer during essay day? I'm taking PA... have only done 1 MPT (will do another tonight once I've sufficiently fried myself of all other practice), but I was hoping for a little last minute advice here. They tend to be worth a fair amount of points and in my last run at the bar (failed by 4 points), I never even bothered looking at one (obviously dumb).

Thank you all and good luck this week!


http://www.ncbex.org/study-aids/

Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's a list of previously MPTS from each exam for the past few years along w/ a memo that outlines the important portions. Hope that helps!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:00 pm

PSK_246 wrote:Themis has a good system here too. Read your assignment memo and note whether you will be writing predicatively or persuasively, and whether your audience is a layperson or someone with legal training. Then go to the library and read the statute and the cases. You'll be able to build the general framework of your answer from that. Then read the case file or whatever, and plug the information from that into your framework from the library. Remember your goal, approach, and audience the whole time. Themis recommends 90 min for this and in my practice runs I almost always use all of the time.


Thank you!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:33 pm

kc128 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/study-aids/

Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's a list of previously MPTS from each exam for the past few years along w/ a memo that outlines the important portions. Hope that helps!


You are awesome!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:32 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:
kc128 wrote:http://www.ncbex.org/study-aids/

Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's a list of previously MPTS from each exam for the past few years along w/ a memo that outlines the important portions. Hope that helps!


You are awesome!


Good luck!! I need to do another one of these tonight too gah

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby phillywc » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:48 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:Anyone here have an Performance Test they have to answer during essay day? I'm taking PA... have only done 1 MPT (will do another tonight once I've sufficiently fried myself of all other practice), but I was hoping for a little last minute advice here. They tend to be worth a fair amount of points and in my last run at the bar (failed by 4 points), I never even bothered looking at one (obviously dumb).

Thank you all and good luck this week!

PA as well here, good luck to you pal.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:10 pm

I'm so damn frustrated by the MBEs. I was hitting 70-74% consistently on sets all last week and in these last few days I am hovering about 60%, sometimes more sometimes less. Just did the last 100 set (not the practice exam, the set of 100 at the very end of the MBE MPQ page) and got 58%. I am just so worried and feeling like I've regressed. I can't take this stupid exam again, I just can't.

I just emailed my poor Themis rep asking if he thinks i'll fail.

UGH.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Respondeat_Inferior » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 pm

PSK_246 wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:Anyone here have an Performance Test they have to answer during essay day? I'm taking PA... have only done 1 MPT (will do another tonight once I've sufficiently fried myself of all other practice), but I was hoping for a little last minute advice here. They tend to be worth a fair amount of points and in my last run at the bar (failed by 4 points), I never even bothered looking at one (obviously dumb).

Thank you all and good luck this week!


Themis has a good system here too. Read your assignment memo and note whether you will be writing predicatively or persuasively, and whether your audience is a layperson or someone with legal training. Then go to the library and read the statute and the cases. You'll be able to build the general framework of your answer from that. Then read the case file or whatever, and plug the information from that into your framework from the library. Remember your goal, approach, and audience the whole time. Themis recommends 90 min for this and in my practice runs I almost always use all of the time.


FWIW, this method was a fucking mess for me and I absolutely hate it. It caused me to absolutely waste a shit ton of time flipping back and forth because I didn't know what I could rule out as irrelevant until after I had analyzed all of the law.

Once I abandoned it entirely I ended up finding the MPTs much more manageable. For me, I find the order that information is presented is the most manageable method. I read the case file, find out what kind of document it is and type up the basic skeleton of my document. Then I list the things the client is looking for in the note, then I pull out the case law, then I finish writing.

I'm not saying Themis' method isn't great for some people but don't try something untested on the bar exam. There's still plenty of time do practice an MPT or two.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby kc128 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:44 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:I'm so damn frustrated by the MBEs. I was hitting 70-74% consistently on sets all last week and in these last few days I am hovering about 60%, sometimes more sometimes less. Just did the last 100 set (not the practice exam, the set of 100 at the very end of the MBE MPQ page) and got 58%. I am just so worried and feeling like I've regressed. I can't take this stupid exam again, I just can't.

I just emailed my poor Themis rep asking if he thinks i'll fail.

UGH.


I'm SO sorry you're feeling this way; it's the absolute worst. Think about how much you know and how far you've come. Maybe look over a MEE topic you feel okay with for a bit and then revisit some of the MBE. You're probably just in your head and know way more than you think that you do.

I read somewhere to review MBE ?s that you've already completed tomorrow and Tuesday morning to keep your brain working and your confidence up. I'm personally going to try that I know. YOU'VE GOT THIS!!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:21 pm

kc128 wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:I'm so damn frustrated by the MBEs. I was hitting 70-74% consistently on sets all last week and in these last few days I am hovering about 60%, sometimes more sometimes less. Just did the last 100 set (not the practice exam, the set of 100 at the very end of the MBE MPQ page) and got 58%. I am just so worried and feeling like I've regressed. I can't take this stupid exam again, I just can't.

I just emailed my poor Themis rep asking if he thinks i'll fail.

UGH.


I'm SO sorry you're feeling this way; it's the absolute worst. Think about how much you know and how far you've come. Maybe look over a MEE topic you feel okay with for a bit and then revisit some of the MBE. You're probably just in your head and know way more than you think that you do.

I read somewhere to review MBE ?s that you've already completed tomorrow and Tuesday morning to keep your brain working and your confidence up. I'm personally going to try that I know. YOU'VE GOT THIS!!


Thank you.

I've done like 2,000 questions so that might be a hard approach. I think I'm overwhelming myself and need to breathe.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby greyacre » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:42 pm

The issue is whether JoLaw824 has regressed. In general, if someone started with a higher score, and went down upon doing a statistically significant amount of questions, then the person is fcked. In this case, JoLaw824 was consistently hitting 70-74% of the questions correctly, but after having done roughly 2000 questions, the test-taker is hitting 58% correct. In conclusion, the examiners will likely find that JoLaw824 is fcked.

But seriously, if you've been looking over the reasoning for the answers you've gotten wrong, then you have this. Stone cold. I ran into a similar issue, although I wasn't fortunate enough to be hitting 70-74% before I "regressed." Think about it as if you're going to the gym... if you keep working the same muscles again and again, at some point your muscles will get fatigued and you'll soon be able to lift less and less until you give them a break. The rules and information is there, you haven't forgotten it. You just need to give them a rest.

I know you probably don't want to stop studying yet; I know I don't. So, mix things up a bit. What worked for me, although your mileage might vary, is study in a way that you haven't done so yet. Maybe go read some blog posts about a specific area of law, pick up a new MBE book you haven't read yet and read the discussions there, or do anything else you haven't already been doing so far. This will still provide you practice/studying you crave, but it introduces it in a fresh way.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Respondeat_Inferior » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:53 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:
kc128 wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:I'm so damn frustrated by the MBEs. I was hitting 70-74% consistently on sets all last week and in these last few days I am hovering about 60%, sometimes more sometimes less. Just did the last 100 set (not the practice exam, the set of 100 at the very end of the MBE MPQ page) and got 58%. I am just so worried and feeling like I've regressed. I can't take this stupid exam again, I just can't.

I just emailed my poor Themis rep asking if he thinks i'll fail.

UGH.


I'm SO sorry you're feeling this way; it's the absolute worst. Think about how much you know and how far you've come. Maybe look over a MEE topic you feel okay with for a bit and then revisit some of the MBE. You're probably just in your head and know way more than you think that you do.

I read somewhere to review MBE ?s that you've already completed tomorrow and Tuesday morning to keep your brain working and your confidence up. I'm personally going to try that I know. YOU'VE GOT THIS!!


Thank you.

I've done like 2,000 questions so that might be a hard approach. I think I'm overwhelming myself and need to breathe.


The practice exam questions aren't even totalled/included in the tracker, so you've probably done even more than that.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:49 pm

greyacre wrote:The issue is whether JoLaw824 has regressed. In general, if someone started with a higher score, and went down upon doing a statistically significant amount of questions, then the person is fcked. In this case, JoLaw824 was consistently hitting 70-74% of the questions correctly, but after having done roughly 2000 questions, the test-taker is hitting 58% correct. In conclusion, the examiners will likely find that JoLaw824 is fcked.

But seriously, if you've been looking over the reasoning for the answers you've gotten wrong, then you have this. Stone cold. I ran into a similar issue, although I wasn't fortunate enough to be hitting 70-74% before I "regressed." Think about it as if you're going to the gym... if you keep working the same muscles again and again, at some point your muscles will get fatigued and you'll soon be able to lift less and less until you give them a break. The rules and information is there, you haven't forgotten it. You just need to give them a rest.

I know you probably don't want to stop studying yet; I know I don't. So, mix things up a bit. What worked for me, although your mileage might vary, is study in a way that you haven't done so yet. Maybe go read some blog posts about a specific area of law, pick up a new MBE book you haven't read yet and read the discussions there, or do anything else you haven't already been doing so far. This will still provide you practice/studying you crave, but it introduces it in a fresh way.


This made me laugh. Thank you.

I cried, called a fellow colleague of mine, she talked me off the ledge, and have been doing essays. One final push tomorrow morning with mbe subjects then I’m just gonna give this f-in test hell.

Thank you all!!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby hijklmno » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:I'm so damn frustrated by the MBEs. I was hitting 70-74% consistently on sets all last week and in these last few days I am hovering about 60%, sometimes more sometimes less. Just did the last 100 set (not the practice exam, the set of 100 at the very end of the MBE MPQ page) and got 58%. I am just so worried and feeling like I've regressed. I can't take this stupid exam again, I just can't.

I just emailed my poor Themis rep asking if he thinks i'll fail.

UGH.


My theory is that they use the "normal" questions up in the first 1800 or so questions, and the remaining questions are oddballs that are likely to be very rare. I took another state's bar and remember this happening to me -- consistently scored in the 70s, then in the last week started tanking. I was fine on the test day itself. You will be okay. You will.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:02 pm

hijklmno wrote:
JoLaw824 wrote:I'm so damn frustrated by the MBEs. I was hitting 70-74% consistently on sets all last week and in these last few days I am hovering about 60%, sometimes more sometimes less. Just did the last 100 set (not the practice exam, the set of 100 at the very end of the MBE MPQ page) and got 58%. I am just so worried and feeling like I've regressed. I can't take this stupid exam again, I just can't.

I just emailed my poor Themis rep asking if he thinks i'll fail.

UGH.


My theory is that they use the "normal" questions up in the first 1800 or so questions, and the remaining questions are oddballs that are likely to be very rare. I took another state's bar and remember this happening to me -- consistently scored in the 70s, then in the last week started tanking. I was fine on the test day itself. You will be okay. You will.


Thank you!!!!!!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby NDOMUKONGGGG » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:56 pm

Y’all: 1. Are Themis questions more difficult than actual MbE questions?

2. How do Themis questions compare to Barbra questions? (Harder? Easier? Wash?)

I understand that I’m looking for generalizations here, just wondering if there was a consensus.

(Also, thoughts on the last few sets of Themis questions? Scored around 50% of test #4, which seemed to me to test every small exception to everything).
Last edited by NDOMUKONGGGG on Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby Respondeat_Inferior » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:08 pm

NDOMUKONGGGG wrote:Y’all: 1. Are Themis questions more difficult than actual MbE questions?

2. How do Themis questions compare to Barbra questions? (Harder? Easier? Wash?)

I understand that I’m looking for generalizations here, just wondering if there was a consensus.


I find Themis about on par with actual MBE questions, though the wording is sometimes deliberately more confusing on the MBE, I've heard that barbri is designed to be way more convoluted but cannot personally confirm.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:49 am

Respondeat_Inferior wrote:
NDOMUKONGGGG wrote:Y’all: 1. Are Themis questions more difficult than actual MbE questions?

2. How do Themis questions compare to Barbra questions? (Harder? Easier? Wash?)

I understand that I’m looking for generalizations here, just wondering if there was a consensus.


I find Themis about on par with actual MBE questions, though the wording is sometimes deliberately more confusing on the MBE, I've heard that barbri is designed to be way more convoluted but cannot personally confirm.


I did barbri my first go-round and I will admit I didn't think most of the MBE questions were like barbri. I also feel like this go-around I've realized way more "exceptions to the rule" than I ever have before - could be on my own better studying this time or the fact that themis shoves them in your face more. I like themis better overall.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby MissT » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:51 am

JoLaw824 wrote:Anyone here have an Performance Test they have to answer during essay day? I'm taking PA... have only done 1 MPT (will do another tonight once I've sufficiently fried myself of all other practice), but I was hoping for a little last minute advice here. They tend to be worth a fair amount of points and in my last run at the bar (failed by 4 points), I never even bothered looking at one (obviously dumb).

Thank you all and good luck this week!


Fellow PA taker here. First time PA taker, but took and passed the bar in another state that uses a performance test so I have a little experience here. I recommend giving yourself a good amount of time (45 min) to read the instructions and “library” and sketch out your answer before you start. The materials are voluminous and you really need to have some kind of skeletal framework in place before you start to write, or else you will be inefficient and disorganized. And under no circumstances should you spend more than 90 minutes on the PT; you won’t have enough time for the essays and the essays are worth more points.

Question: are there clocks in the room?! I hate not being able to wear a watch, and I really need to keep track of time since I tend to run out of it when I practice...

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Best of luck tomorrow and on the bar, and may this time be your last!

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby PSK_246 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:44 pm

JoLaw824 wrote:
Respondeat_Inferior wrote:
NDOMUKONGGGG wrote:Y’all: 1. Are Themis questions more difficult than actual MbE questions?

2. How do Themis questions compare to Barbra questions? (Harder? Easier? Wash?)

I understand that I’m looking for generalizations here, just wondering if there was a consensus.


I find Themis about on par with actual MBE questions, though the wording is sometimes deliberately more confusing on the MBE, I've heard that barbri is designed to be way more convoluted but cannot personally confirm.


I did barbri my first go-round and I will admit I didn't think most of the MBE questions were like barbri. I also feel like this go-around I've realized way more "exceptions to the rule" than I ever have before - could be on my own better studying this time or the fact that themis shoves them in your face more. I like themis better overall.


I think Themis uses more in the weeds questions later on in the course so that you stay vigilant and keep working. Godspeed tomorrow everyone.

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby phillywc » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:45 pm

since there are at least two other PA takers... if you, like me, forgot say, your pencils and whatnot, there is a rite aid around the corner that sells what you need. i also have like... 120 bags now if anyone needs them

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby phillywc » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:45 pm

since there are at least two other PA takers... if you, like me, forgot say, your pencils and whatnot, there is a rite aid around the corner that sells what you need. i also have like... 120 bags now if anyone needs them

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Re: Feb. 2018 Themis

Postby JoLaw824 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:05 pm

phillywc wrote:since there are at least two other PA takers... if you, like me, forgot say, your pencils and whatnot, there is a rite aid around the corner that sells what you need. i also have like... 120 bags now if anyone needs them


LOL. I have a feeling you're in Philly.... wild guess.

I'm in Pittsburgh. I have 8 pencils, which I'm hoping is sufficient.



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