Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

pfunkera

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Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby pfunkera » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:34 pm

I know some people do not put much value into the lectures, but I viewed all the Barbri lectures for the MBE subjects. The lecturers stated on numerous occasions that what they covered would be generally enough information to pass the bar. However, the Barbri MPQ (MBE) questions seem to cover a bunch of minor or nuanced topics not covered in the lectures. I am sure these are in the Barbri outlines, but I am not sure how much time to really devote to these topics if they truly are not regularly covered on the actual MBE.

For example, one question hinged on knowing about title theory and the potential impacts on title during foreclosure proceedings if a jurisdiction followed title theory. I saw one reference to Title Theory in my Property notes and it didn't even mention the impacts on title during foreclosure.

It seems like a bunch of the questions like to draw you to minor points and exceptions in the law rather than testing you on the big topics covered in the lectures. Am I delusional in my thinking? I have Adaptibar too but haven't noticed this as much with those questions.

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RCinDNA

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:11 pm

You are not delusional. There is not enough information just in the lectures to pass the bar. You need to work with the outlines and drill down on the exceptions and nuances. This is why people recommend re-reviewing all of the outlines and going through actual MBE questions - the nuances get drilled in as you see them applied, whereas the lectures tend to reinforce the basics.

BarBri is not totally useless - the questions should build your knowledge of these nuances and you end up re-reviewing the outline a few times. But for the MEE, I do not think the lecture notes will give you a broad enough base in the MBE topics to write a good answer. Maybe they can for some of the minor subjects that are pretty easy to grasp, though.

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RCinDNA

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:41 pm

Hopefully I did not misunderstand your question but I found the opposite to be true - I am using Adaptibar and other released questions and it is quite surprising how many test those random nuances.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby supa_mitsu » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:13 am

Agree with what just said by RCinDNA.

Also, Barbri is definitely helpful but I found it extremely inefficient. They teach too much stuff (although all that fluff is useful if you are still in the "understanding the law" phase), they don't include some information tested, they kind of mix it all together and you have to figure out how to apply that knowledge to write actual rule statements, and, last but not least, the lecturers have no idea of how the bar exam works and how the subjects will be tested. They are law school professors and they are great lecturers for a law school class but not for a bar preparation. If I could go back I would save those 2k and directly go with something like Adaptibar + SmartBarPrep outlines + Critical Pass Flashcards tweaked with what learned from Adaptibar questions without wasting time with Barbri handouts/outlines. At least that's what I'm doing now...

pfunkera

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby pfunkera » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:13 am

thanks for the responses. I generally share your views about Barbri at this point. I think it is more designed for people that may not understand the law and need to learn it before the bar exam. I just need the darn rules and elements in a quick and easy package so I can memorize them. Since its somewhat too late to branch out and try something new, I am taking the conviser mini reviews and creating my own shortened outlines that I supplement with rules or exceptions found in the explanations that go along with the questions on both Barbri and Adapti bar. Even the conviser "mini" reviews have WAY too much explanation and the rules and elements are often buried in the text. Re-wording the mini reviews has really helped me because I can make my outline look the way that I like it. I am a visual learner and remember things by remembering the look of my outlines during exams (colors, etc)

Barbri has the study keys, but it looks like you need to match up the rule with the elements? Waste of time. I do like the videos they do that review the 25 workshop questions for each subject. They actually give you what you need.

I am so glad I came to this forum and discovered Adaptibar, so worth the extra money!

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RCinDNA

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:09 am

yes, BarBri is pretty inefficient. If you have the time, you can hone in on the rules you need by looking up the bar exam outlines under their tested materials page. If you take that, find a source that will tell you the proportion of questions tested in each group (I actually think the examiners tell you this, too), and then you can hone in on what you absolutely need to master for the MBE and what the MEE will test at least for the 7 major subjects.

I found it helpful when someone sat me down and literally pointed to the outline and a bar exam note that around half the Torts MBE questions come from negligence, for example. I think even BarBri says this but they dump so much on you that it gets lost. I do re-review the outlines and do practice questions but I think the more helpful bar tutors will start by looking at the time you have, focus on what you absolutely need to know, gradually expand from there to include more likely to be tested topics, and then including rare topics that may show up within another essay. Unfortunately, my experience with BarBri has been horrendous so I am biased but you can see their attempt to include this overall arc in their material - you spend the first month on the MBE topics, random topics start creeping in towards the second, and you get easily mastered topics, like Equity, right before the course finishes but a LOT of that first month is wasted time so I know of no one that ever felt prepared for the bar before the midterm but many of these people went on to pass because of the sheer amount of time they spent eith these subjects.

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RCinDNA

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:47 am

I meant tge national bar examiners page - that is where the outlines of tested material is stored.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby supa_mitsu » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:09 pm

Not to mention the fact that Barbri tells you not to memorize anything until the last two weeks. So in the meanwhile you will get like 20% on their questions (and won't understand why because you followed their method to the letter), and then in the last two weeks you will realize you fucked up. Start to memorize asap!

pfunkera

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby pfunkera » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:02 pm

supa_mitsu wrote:Not to mention the fact that Barbri tells you not to memorize anything until the last two weeks. So in the meanwhile you will get like 20% on their questions (and won't understand why because you followed their method to the letter), and then in the last two weeks you will realize you fucked up. Start to memorize asap!


yep, very true. Luckily, I figured this out already. They want you to do essay questions without doing much prep for them. What is the point if you don't even know the rules. The longer the bar prep goes on the more jaded I become about all of it :)

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby msummer » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:01 am

supa_mitsu wrote:Not to mention the fact that Barbri tells you not to memorize anything until the last two weeks. So in the meanwhile you will get like 20% on their questions (and won't understand why because you followed their method to the letter), and then in the last two weeks you will realize you fucked up. Start to memorize asap!


What do you guys memorize? There are tons of rules and nuances, I obviously won’t be able to memorize every one of them.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:59 am

That’s why you start early. You don’t memorize all of them - you start with the basics (elements and si gle statements of law) and then add more as the original set becomes stuck in your head. Mnemonics help. And some of these concepts are stuck in your head after 3-4 years of law school.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby msummer » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:38 pm

RCinDNA wrote:That’s why you start early. You don’t memorize all of them - you start with the basics (elements and si gle statements of law) and then add more as the original set becomes stuck in your head. Mnemonics help. And some of these concepts are stuck in your head after 3-4 years of law school.



Thanks. I remember by drilling, reading all about he answers and reviewing the rules and concepts I didn’t remember/know from a sheet I made. I hope it will be enough.

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RCinDNA

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:02 pm

msummer wrote:
RCinDNA wrote:That’s why you start early. You don’t memorize all of them - you start with the basics (elements and si gle statements of law) and then add more as the original set becomes stuck in your head. Mnemonics help. And some of these concepts are stuck in your head after 3-4 years of law school.



Thanks. I remember by drilling, reading all about he answers and reviewing the rules and concepts I didn’t remember/know from a sheet I made. I hope it will be enough.


I hope so, too. The test is passable but I am also just hoping I put in the right amount of time in the right areas. MBE gains come so slowly!

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby bretby » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:24 pm

msummer wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:Not to mention the fact that Barbri tells you not to memorize anything until the last two weeks. So in the meanwhile you will get like 20% on their questions (and won't understand why because you followed their method to the letter), and then in the last two weeks you will realize you fucked up. Start to memorize asap!


What do you guys memorize? There are tons of rules and nuances, I obviously won’t be able to memorize every one of them.


But BARBRI does tell you to memorize - at least, the lecturers do. I only started memorizing because I was specifically told to do so in a lecture in the first two weeks of the course......

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RCinDNA

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:47 pm

bretby wrote:
msummer wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:Not to mention the fact that Barbri tells you not to memorize anything until the last two weeks. So in the meanwhile you will get like 20% on their questions (and won't understand why because you followed their method to the letter), and then in the last two weeks you will realize you fucked up. Start to memorize asap!


What do you guys memorize? There are tons of rules and nuances, I obviously won’t be able to memorize every one of them.


But BARBRI does tell you to memorize - at least, the lecturers do. I only started memorizing because I was specifically told to do so in a lecture in the first two weeks of the course......


Not all lecturers guve useful advice.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby bretby » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:45 pm

Candy Wrappers wrote:Barbri is honestly a piece of shit. I'm still bitter I paid for that shitty program when I could have gone with cheaper options or make my own combo and still come out cheaper. The emotional draining process they make you go through is SO NOT WORTH it. GAHHH


Genuinely curious what is so draining about the process? It seems pretty straightforward. Just do the work they assign and you learn the material. What am I missing? I am really surprised by all the BARBRI angst around here.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby pfunkera » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:56 pm

I actually like the conviser mini outlines now. There is a bit of repetition with the charts, but still solid info although they could be more precise with rule blocks. I am working off of them and the lecture notes. I think I am actually beginning to remember things! I am combining the mini outlines with my lecture notes and doing my best to condense it further. After the MBE practice test today, I plan to do the rest of the non-MBE lectures next. Next, I plan to start hammering away at adaptibar questions and barbri essay questions.

I may do 1-2 MPTs but I feel really comfortable with those. Seems like a waste of time but I am in a UBE state.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby pfunkera » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:58 pm

bretby wrote:
Candy Wrappers wrote:Barbri is honestly a piece of shit. I'm still bitter I paid for that shitty program when I could have gone with cheaper options or make my own combo and still come out cheaper. The emotional draining process they make you go through is SO NOT WORTH it. GAHHH


Genuinely curious what is so draining about the process? It seems pretty straightforward. Just do the work they assign and you learn the material. What am I missing? I am really surprised by all the BARBRI angst around here.


I work full time, have kids with sports commitments, and other adult things to do. If all I had to do was Barbri, then I would be fine :lol: There is no way I can do all that they assign.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby bretby » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:19 pm

pfunkera wrote:
bretby wrote:
Candy Wrappers wrote:Barbri is honestly a piece of shit. I'm still bitter I paid for that shitty program when I could have gone with cheaper options or make my own combo and still come out cheaper. The emotional draining process they make you go through is SO NOT WORTH it. GAHHH


Genuinely curious what is so draining about the process? It seems pretty straightforward. Just do the work they assign and you learn the material. What am I missing? I am really surprised by all the BARBRI angst around here.


I work full time, have kids with sports commitments, and other adult things to do. If all I had to do was Barbri, then I would be fine :lol: There is no way I can do all that they assign.


Ah, yes I can see how a full time job would make Barbri a bit much. Honestly, though, I can't imagine any study program working with a full time job. Don't know how you do it!

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:18 am

pfunkera wrote:I actually like the conviser mini outlines now. There is a bit of repetition with the charts, but still solid info although they could be more precise with rule blocks. I am working off of them and the lecture notes. I think I am actually beginning to remember things! I am combining the mini outlines with my lecture notes and doing my best to condense it further. After the MBE practice test today, I plan to do the rest of the non-MBE lectures next. Next, I plan to start hammering away at adaptibar questions and barbri essay questions.

I may do 1-2 MPTs but I feel really comfortable with those. Seems like a waste of time but I am in a UBE state.


Yeah, that is my love-hate relationship with BarBri. If they were more individualized, you could really get a lot from the program. As it is, there are nuggets of great info in the CMR but IMNSHO the orientation of it, as a narrative versus straightforward bulletpointed presentation, can be inefficient. One MEE released question involved active vs passive websites - that occupies two small paragraphs of the CivPro’s 45ish pages. And prepping for the MBE is a struggle with BarBri materials. I honestly would have paid more to sit down with a rep and customize a study plan versua their current mode where they offer 1-on-1 tutoring right before the simulated MBE.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby Tony48 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:12 pm

You're not crazy. Barbri likes to test very subtle nuances of the law to help you somewhat be prepared for curve balls during the real thing. You get the big picture, plus everything else. But I would worry about the big picture first and foremost. You're not trying to destroy the bar; you're trying to pass. And knowing a handful of subtle distinctions makes you that much more prepared.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby Thrive » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:41 pm

RCinDNA wrote:You are not delusional. There is not enough information just in the lectures to pass the bar. You need to work with the outlines and drill down on the exceptions and nuances. This is why people recommend re-reviewing all of the outlines and going through actual MBE questions - the nuances get drilled in as you see them applied, whereas the lectures tend to reinforce the basics.

BarBri is not totally useless - the questions should build your knowledge of these nuances and you end up re-reviewing the outline a few times. But for the MEE, I do not think the lecture notes will give you a broad enough base in the MBE topics to write a good answer. Maybe they can for some of the minor subjects that are pretty easy to grasp, though.


Goodness. Had a completely different experience. Hardly ever cracked open the outlines. The lectures were sufficient to pass.

You still need to take ownership of the materials, note the nuances that appear on the practice questions etc but the lectures are certainly sufficient to pass.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby RCinDNA » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:00 pm

Thrive wrote:
RCinDNA wrote:You are not delusional. There is not enough information just in the lectures to pass the bar. You need to work with the outlines and drill down on the exceptions and nuances. This is why people recommend re-reviewing all of the outlines and going through actual MBE questions - the nuances get drilled in as you see them applied, whereas the lectures tend to reinforce the basics.

BarBri is not totally useless - the questions should build your knowledge of these nuances and you end up re-reviewing the outline a few times. But for the MEE, I do not think the lecture notes will give you a broad enough base in the MBE topics to write a good answer. Maybe they can for some of the minor subjects that are pretty easy to grasp, though.


Goodness. Had a completely different experience. Hardly ever cracked open the outlines. The lectures were sufficient to pass.

You still need to take ownership of the materials, note the nuances that appear on the practice questions etc but the lectures are certainly sufficient to pass.


I think you need to expand on what you mean by “take ownership of the materials” because my impression was that the OP was asking if they could solely or substantially rely on lecture outlines. The lectures will get you nowhere on the MBE, for example, so I think you would end up having to do practice questions and BarBri practice questions to get to nuances since the lectures are so general. My first go-round, I relied on the lectures for an area of negligence and underperformed whereas I am now testing in the 95th percentile of that area after poring over the CMR.

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Re: Barbri lecture topics vs Barbri outlines?

Postby pfunkera » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:09 pm

almost game time! I think the lecture notes are pretty good but seems to help more for the essay questions. The MBE questions ask things not in the lecture notes so not sure you could pass relying only on the lecture notes. Personally, I think doing as many MBE questions as humanly possible is the way to go (UBE State) because the MPT does not require much advanced preparation (at least for me). I have not put much time into essay questions so hopefully that doesn't come back to bight me but I am pretty sure I can get 3/6 on just about any essay question with a combination of BS and MBE knowledge of the rules. I haven't completely ignored the essays, but I definitely cannot spit out every rule word for word.




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