Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

supa_mitsu
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Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:27 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby supa_mitsu » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 pm

maxmartin wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.


The issue is not entirely settled. You probably are fine to open a solo shop (I don't think you can) and practice administrative immigration matters. But once a disgruntled client or your competitors in the market complained to the bar, that would be a big headache for you.


Interesting. I've seen around immigration lawyers that opened a firm and are not licensed in CA. I wonder if they know what they are doing or are just risking it. I'm thinking about a popular lawyer in particular in Southern California... Oh well, let's hope to pass next time just to avoid an entirely new universe of headaches.

maxmartin
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby maxmartin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:07 pm

supa_mitsu wrote:
maxmartin wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.


The issue is not entirely settled. You probably are fine to open a solo shop (I don't think you can) and practice administrative immigration matters. But once a disgruntled client or your competitors in the market complained to the bar, that would be a big headache for you.


Interesting. I've seen around immigration lawyers that opened a firm and are not licensed in CA. I wonder if they know what they are doing or are just risking it. I'm thinking about a popular lawyer in particular in Southern California... Oh well, let's hope to pass next time just to avoid an entirely new universe of headaches.


Are u sure that popular lawyer does not have any associates with CA licenses? If he is popular, he probably has associates.

supa_mitsu
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:27 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby supa_mitsu » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:17 pm

maxmartin wrote:Are u sure that popular lawyer does not have any associates with CA licenses? If he is popular, he probably has associates.


He doesn't have any partner but yes, he has associates licensed in CA. So that's all you need? An associate that passed the CA bar? I thought at least a partner... Sounds better already.

maxmartin
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby maxmartin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:21 pm

supa_mitsu wrote:
maxmartin wrote:Are u sure that popular lawyer does not have any associates with CA licenses? If he is popular, he probably has associates.


He doesn't have any partner but yes, he has associates licensed in CA. So that's all you need? An associate that passed the CA bar? I thought at least a partner... Sounds better already.


Yep, that is all you need from my limited understanding. He probably has that associate specifically for this purpose. LOL

maxmartin
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby maxmartin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:32 pm

supa_mitsu wrote:After many attempts, I'm planning on passing the Bar Exam in an easier state (like Wisconsin) and then practice Federal Law (like immigration) in California. What do you think?


Don't be fooled by those arbitrary cut score! It really depends on how individual states grade the essay portion of the UBE. The passing rate of Oregon 79% overall (274 cut score) is higher than any 266 states. And you can practice on the border of CA and OR. :mrgreen:

supa_mitsu
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby supa_mitsu » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:11 pm

maxmartin wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:After many attempts, I'm planning on passing the Bar Exam in an easier state (like Wisconsin) and then practice Federal Law (like immigration) in California. What do you think?


Don't be fooled by those arbitrary cut score! It really depends on how individual states grade the essay portion of the UBE. The passing rate of Oregon 79% overall (274 cut score) is higher than any 266 states. And you can practice on the border of CA and OR. :mrgreen:


Oh interesting! Too bad I’m a foreign law student so Oregon won’t let me sit for the bar just with an LLM. At least since last time I checked. Good insight though, thank you!

FascinatedWanderer
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:50 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:06 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.

Dude, that is entirely unnecessary.

supa_mitsu
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:27 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby supa_mitsu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:15 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.


Luckily there is a standardized test that makes anybody who could beat it a good lawyer. That's why malpractice lawsuits, discipline, disbarmements, and lawyer jokes don't exist.

FascinatedWanderer
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:32 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.

Dude, that is entirely unnecessary.


You're not even mildly concerned that someone who can't pass the bar is trying to think of ways to get around requirements to represent actual clients who need real legal help?

Granted, the bar is a poor measure of lawyering skill. But it does show that someone can put in some work, in a high-pressure situation, with some minimal cognitive skill and come up with a decent result.

The notion that someone can't put together that minimal performance and is like, "nah I can still definitely successfully represent clients" is pretty galling.

maxmartin
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby maxmartin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:39 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.

Dude, that is entirely unnecessary.


You're not even mildly concerned that someone who can't pass the bar is trying to think of ways to get around requirements to represent actual clients who need real legal help?

Granted, the bar is a poor measure of lawyering skill. But it does show that someone can put in some work, in a high-pressure situation, with some minimal cognitive skill and come up with a decent result.

The notion that someone can't put together that minimal performance and is like, "nah I can still definitely successfully represent clients" is pretty galling.


Minimal performance and CA bar exam, LMAO. I guess in your mind half of the CA bar takers is retarded.

FascinatedWanderer
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:45 pm

maxmartin wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.

Dude, that is entirely unnecessary.


You're not even mildly concerned that someone who can't pass the bar is trying to think of ways to get around requirements to represent actual clients who need real legal help?

Granted, the bar is a poor measure of lawyering skill. But it does show that someone can put in some work, in a high-pressure situation, with some minimal cognitive skill and come up with a decent result.

The notion that someone can't put together that minimal performance and is like, "nah I can still definitely successfully represent clients" is pretty galling.


Minimal performance and CA bar exam, LMAO. I guess in your mind half of the CA bar takers is retarded.


No comment required.

supa_mitsu
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:27 pm

Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby supa_mitsu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:56 pm

Agree with maxmartin. The bar exam just limits the access to the profession. It has nothing to do with being a lawyer. The only thing that proves is that you are able to pass the bar exam.

Being so much in favor of this artificial limitation shows either that you are a bully, a troll, or somebody who is already an attorney and wants less competition (which could arguably be considered “bully”).

If there was a more efficient (and mostly cheaper) way to measure minimum competency, I’m sure they would use it and wipe their asses with your beloved bar exam.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Tired of (failing) the California Bar Exam: I'm going federal.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:08 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
supa_mitsu wrote:
horriblegb wrote:I dont really know anything about immigration, but yes I do work for the federal gov't


It sounds like the government is imposing some extra rules on its employees. From what I understand, this limit won't apply to indipendent lawyers. Not sure though, I haven't checked your source.

So if you go to the CD Cal website it looks like it’s not a government lawyer requirement but an everyone requirement - you can’t be admitted to appear in federal district court there without a California bar number. That probably doesn’t apply in immigration court (don’t know about bankruptcy) so whether this would work for will depend on whether you have to appear in federal district court as well as immigration court.


And thank heavens for that. The quality of the lawyering in federal court is low enough without a sudden influx of people who can't even pass the bar.

Dude, that is entirely unnecessary.


You're not even mildly concerned that someone who can't pass the bar is trying to think of ways to get around requirements to represent actual clients who need real legal help?

Granted, the bar is a poor measure of lawyering skill. But it does show that someone can put in some work, in a high-pressure situation, with some minimal cognitive skill and come up with a decent result.

The notion that someone can't put together that minimal performance and is like, "nah I can still definitely successfully represent clients" is pretty galling.

1) I don’t think the bar is an especially good measure of lawyering ability, no.

2) this thread isn’t the place to have to that debate. Waltzing in and insulting the OP isn’t accomplishing anything.




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