2018 February CA Bar

Snowflake1
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Snowflake1 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:37 pm

a male human wrote:There's a misconception that 65 is a passing score. You don't pass an essay or PT. You pass the exam.

It varies slightly depending on the exam, but in general, getting about a 62.5 or so put you on track to pass (1440 scaled written score). A raw score of 65 is a good indication that you're on the right track. You want to aim to get your essays to a 65 or higher. You could also say that an average raw score of 65 would most likely put your scaled score above 1440.

With the two-day exam where (i) the written portion is now worth 50% instead of 65% and (ii) essays are worth 5/7 of that half instead of 3/5, this "passing" score might be a tad lower. Maybe higher. In any case, yes, a 65 is a good benchmark to hit.


Thanks.

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RoccoPan
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby RoccoPan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:07 am

misterX wrote:
krispymenudo wrote:
Doobydoobydoo wrote:1382 essay score, 1387 mbe score... I thought I killed the essays but evidently not, but what really surprised me is the range of successes/failures in my results, 68th percentile for contracts mbe questions, 9th percentile for torts...and I got an A in torts, I thought I knew torts... I need to figure out this test is really about, Just thinking out loud, trying to crack this thing because I don’t think I fully get this beast yet



I was in 78th percentile in Con Law and 8.8th percentile for torts. I felt the same, that torts was my strongest. And ever since law school Con Law, I always thought the subject was a convoluted mess. No clue how that worked out

My essays got a second read. On both, my PT got a 65, and I was sure that I bombed since my section on why the evidence would be inadmissible was literally 3 sentences.

Not sure what to do with this information either. Thinking out loud here as well. What even is this test


Same thing here, you guys. 2 reads, upper 1300s on both, 82% on Con Law but only 18% on Torts (and Torts did not feel difficult at all during the exam). I don't get it.


FWIW: I thought I was doing fine in Torts too during practice, but my Adaptibar stats told me I was getting almost every negligence question wrong. I read the Strategies & Tactics section on how to approach negligence questions and it made an immediate difference. I’m sure it helped on the exam too. Highly recommend both of those resources.

Snowflake1
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Snowflake1 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:30 pm

RoccoPan wrote:
misterX wrote:
krispymenudo wrote:
Doobydoobydoo wrote:1382 essay score, 1387 mbe score... I thought I killed the essays but evidently not, but what really surprised me is the range of successes/failures in my results, 68th percentile for contracts mbe questions, 9th percentile for torts...and I got an A in torts, I thought I knew torts... I need to figure out this test is really about, Just thinking out loud, trying to crack this thing because I don’t think I fully get this beast yet



I was in 78th percentile in Con Law and 8.8th percentile for torts. I felt the same, that torts was my strongest. And ever since law school Con Law, I always thought the subject was a convoluted mess. No clue how that worked out

My essays got a second read. On both, my PT got a 65, and I was sure that I bombed since my section on why the evidence would be inadmissible was literally 3 sentences.

Not sure what to do with this information either. Thinking out loud here as well. What even is this test


Same thing here, you guys. 2 reads, upper 1300s on both, 82% on Con Law but only 18% on Torts (and Torts did not feel difficult at all during the exam). I don't get it.


FWIW: I thought I was doing fine in Torts too during practice, but my Adaptibar stats told me I was getting almost every negligence question wrong. I read the Strategies & Tactics section on how to approach negligence questions and it made an immediate difference. I’m sure it helped on the exam too. Highly recommend both of those resources.


I can recommend that Strategies & Tactics book as well combined with adaptibar. I scored really high on the MBE last July and attribute a lot of that to these resources. Unfortunately my essays were not up to par, but repeat practicing using BarEssays.com seems to be helping this time.

Pema
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Pema » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:09 pm

a male human wrote:getting about a 62.5 or so put you on track to pass


Is the exam 50% written and 50% mbe? If so, any raw configuration (written v MBE) that totals 62.5% is passing regardless of scaling? Thanks.

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a male human
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby a male human » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Pema wrote:
a male human wrote:getting about a 62.5 or so put you on track to pass


Is the exam 50% written and 50% mbe? If so, any raw configuration (written v MBE) that totals 62.5% is passing regardless of scaling? Thanks.

Yes, the exam is weighted 50% written and 50% MBE.

Any scaled configuration that totals 1440 is passing. As a simple example, 1440 scaled written and 1440 scaled MBE scores would get you 1440 total.
[+] Spoiler
0.50 x 1440 + 0.50 x 1440 = 1440.


The conversion from raw to scaled is different each exam to adjust for difficulty. This is based on various statistical considerations, the exact mechanisms for which are beyond my level of understanding. We can assume that a 1440 in any given exam is equivalent to a 1440 on another.

In any case, based on my observations of past exams (the 3-day version), an average raw score of about 62.5 across each essay and PT approximated 1440 on the written portion.

So, generally speaking, it was safe to say that shooting for a 65 on each essay would have put you on track to pass, assuming your MBE performance also looked good. Most likely, it's even safer to say the same now since the written portion is weighted less than before (down from 65%).

scard
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby scard » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:12 pm

Snowflake1 wrote:Second time taker here. I did pretty well on the MBE (over 1500) but failed every essay. Not a huge surprise being that I focused way too much on MBE this last time around and ignored essay practice. Any recommendations for an essay tutor? I also subscribed to BarEssays.com.


I really like bar exam toolbox with lee burgess

Snowflake1
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Snowflake1 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:57 pm

scard wrote:
Snowflake1 wrote:Second time taker here. I did pretty well on the MBE (over 1500) but failed every essay. Not a huge surprise being that I focused way too much on MBE this last time around and ignored essay practice. Any recommendations for an essay tutor? I also subscribed to BarEssays.com.


I really like bar exam toolbox with lee burgess


Thanks I will look into them.

Pema
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Pema » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:04 pm

Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.

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horriblegb
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby horriblegb » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:44 pm

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Last edited by horriblegb on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

PorscheFanatic
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby PorscheFanatic » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:53 pm

Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


I'd be interested to hear opinions on this as well. I have been using Adaptibar because it came so highly recommended by everyone. I was under the impression that Adaptibar uses actual questions from past exams.

InterAlia1961
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:24 pm

Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


I passed this time. I'm checking the forum to see if I can help someone else pass. Paying it forward, so to speak. I found several discussions here to be helpful while I was studying.

I've used Kaplan, Barbri, and Adaptibar. Barbri's were by far the most difficult and most closely simulated the MBE. The trick on the MBE is to read critically and not immediately accept your first, gut-instinct answer as correct. Take time to check all the answers, just to be sure. Always, always ask this about each answer option: What would have to occur for this choice to be correct? Then ask if that is what has in fact happened. On the MBE, they're testing your knowledge of black letter law as well as your ability to think. Sure, one of the answers says something about equitable interest, but be so jumbled that it doesn't quite fit, but it uses the right words. Stop. That's the wrong answer. Go through each of the other ones to see which one fits the facts. What has to be true for each answer to be correct?

Whatever MBE prep you're using, practice. Always write out the rule statement for each answer, even the ones you get correct. Hand-write it. You're more likely to remember it. Buy a stack of legal pads and package of pens.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby a male human » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:25 pm

PorscheFanatic wrote:
Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


I'd be interested to hear opinions on this as well. I have been using Adaptibar because it came so highly recommended by everyone. I was under the impression that Adaptibar uses actual questions from past exams.

AdaptiBar does use real questions (except the 200 Civ Pro and 15 new Real Property questions they have).

My thought is that examiners are aware of the popular supplements, and they design around them. They have to. Otherwise, how will they separate applicants?

This is why the quality of learning is important. It's not a contest to see how many questions you did.

Like don't worry if you see someone else bragging about doing 2,000-3,000 questions (keeping up with the Joneses). I'd rather you redo the same questions to make sure you get it (you should get the same question right later if you truly understood the concept). I'd rather you take several minutes to review and understand each answer explanation (for each answer choice, for each question you do, right or wrong) and look into it if you don't, than speed through a bunch of questions and retain nothing.

I like Emanuel's S&T 6th ed for its helpful explanations and coverage of many issues across its 700 or so questions. AdaptiBar is good for automatically figuring out your weak spots and having a whole universe of questions to work on. People have passed with either one.

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RoccoPan
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby RoccoPan » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:25 am

Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


This is a question I really struggled with after the last exam. I only used Adaptibar and Strategies & Tactics in practice, and felt like the actual MBE was much more difficult. After the exam I was concerned I made a mistake by relying so heavily on Adaptibar. But from the comments I saw, people that took other approaches (Kaplan, etc), also thought the MBE portion was hard. In the end I passed so I have no idea what my actual MBE score was. But I don’t really think post-exam feelings on the MBE are a good reflection of performance (getting 40% wrong and 20% wrong both feel bad at the time and it’s hard to tell which end of this spectrum your at).

sk1130
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby sk1130 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:47 pm

Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


The first time I took the bar was this Feb and I only used Barbri. I walked out thinking the MBE was extremely difficult and feeling like I did horribly. Turns out, I was right. Didn't pass and I got a 125 on the MBE. This summer, I almost exclusively relied on Adaptibar for my MBE prep--didn't bother with Barbri questions because I felt they were not representative at all. I say almost because I also ordered Emmanuel's 6th Edition book that everyone raves about on here. I read all the intro sections to the subjects and did some practice questions from the book (maybe around 200). Those helped too but I definitely did Adaptibar the most (I completed all their questions). Walked out of the MBE still feeling like it was very difficult, but I was MUCH more prepared. It didn't feel like a massacre and I felt like I had studied enough questions to help me answer the ones on the actual day. I passed this July, and while I don't know my actual score, I know I got between 154-159 MBE because I ordered the score reports and I can waive into DC (133) and Minnesota (154), but not North Dakota (160).

For what it's worth, I think Adaptibar was worth the investment and I would do it again if I had to! Best of luck.
Last edited by sk1130 on Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:53 pm

sk1130 wrote:
Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


The first time I took the bar was this Feb and I only used Barbri. I walked out thinking the MBE was extremely difficult and feeling like I did horribly. Turns out, I was right. Didn't pass and I got a 125 on the MBE. This summer, I almost exclusively relied on Adaptibar for my MBE prep--didn't bother with Barbri questions because I felt they were not representative at all. I say almost because I also ordered Emmanuel's 6th Edition book that everyone raves about on here. I read all the intro sections to the subjects and did some practice questions from the book (maybe around 200). Those helped too but I definitely did Adaptibar the most (I completed all their questions). Walked out of the MBE still feeling like it was very difficult, but I was MUCH more prepared. It didn't feel like a massacre and I felt like I had studied enough questions to help me answer the ones on the actual day. I passed this July, and while I don't know my actual score, I know I got between 133-159 MBE because I ordered the score reports and I can waive into DC (133) and Minnesota (154), but not North Dakota (160).

For what it's worth, I think Adaptibar was worth the investment and I would do it again if I had to! Best of luck.

This is awesome, man!

sk1130
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby sk1130 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:55 pm

a male human wrote:
sk1130 wrote:
Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


The first time I took the bar was this Feb and I only used Barbri. I walked out thinking the MBE was extremely difficult and feeling like I did horribly. Turns out, I was right. Didn't pass and I got a 125 on the MBE. This summer, I almost exclusively relied on Adaptibar for my MBE prep--didn't bother with Barbri questions because I felt they were not representative at all. I say almost because I also ordered Emmanuel's 6th Edition book that everyone raves about on here. I read all the intro sections to the subjects and did some practice questions from the book (maybe around 200). Those helped too but I definitely did Adaptibar the most (I completed all their questions). Walked out of the MBE still feeling like it was very difficult, but I was MUCH more prepared. It didn't feel like a massacre and I felt like I had studied enough questions to help me answer the ones on the actual day. I passed this July, and while I don't know my actual score, I know I got between 133-159 MBE because I ordered the score reports and I can waive into DC (133) and Minnesota (154), but not North Dakota (160).

For what it's worth, I think Adaptibar was worth the investment and I would do it again if I had to! Best of luck.

This is awesome, man!


Thank you very much, a male human! :)

PorscheFanatic
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby PorscheFanatic » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:34 pm

sk1130 wrote:
Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


The first time I took the bar was this Feb and I only used Barbri. I walked out thinking the MBE was extremely difficult and feeling like I did horribly. Turns out, I was right. Didn't pass and I got a 125 on the MBE. This summer, I almost exclusively relied on Adaptibar for my MBE prep--didn't bother with Barbri questions because I felt they were not representative at all. I say almost because I also ordered Emmanuel's 6th Edition book that everyone raves about on here. I read all the intro sections to the subjects and did some practice questions from the book (maybe around 200). Those helped too but I definitely did Adaptibar the most (I completed all their questions). Walked out of the MBE still feeling like it was very difficult, but I was MUCH more prepared. It didn't feel like a massacre and I felt like I had studied enough questions to help me answer the ones on the actual day. I passed this July, and while I don't know my actual score, I know I got between 154-159 MBE because I ordered the score reports and I can waive into DC (133) and Minnesota (154), but not North Dakota (160).

For what it's worth, I think Adaptibar was worth the investment and I would do it again if I had to! Best of luck.


Very reassuring, thank you!

SFassociate
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby SFassociate » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:23 pm

sk1130 wrote:
Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


The first time I took the bar was this Feb and I only used Barbri. I walked out thinking the MBE was extremely difficult and feeling like I did horribly. Turns out, I was right. Didn't pass and I got a 125 on the MBE. This summer, I almost exclusively relied on Adaptibar for my MBE prep--didn't bother with Barbri questions because I felt they were not representative at all. I say almost because I also ordered Emmanuel's 6th Edition book that everyone raves about on here. I read all the intro sections to the subjects and did some practice questions from the book (maybe around 200). Those helped too but I definitely did Adaptibar the most (I completed all their questions). Walked out of the MBE still feeling like it was very difficult, but I was MUCH more prepared. It didn't feel like a massacre and I felt like I had studied enough questions to help me answer the ones on the actual day. I passed this July, and while I don't know my actual score, I know I got between 154-159 MBE because I ordered the score reports and I can waive into DC (133) and Minnesota (154), but not North Dakota (160).

For what it's worth, I think Adaptibar was worth the investment and I would do it again if I had to! Best of luck.


Can you share how to get those score reports? Thank you! Congrats!

sk1130
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby sk1130 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:25 pm

SFassociate wrote:
sk1130 wrote:
Pema wrote:Actual Mbe Q's. After reading the July 2017 posters on the day of/ after they took the MBE it appears the questions are nothing like Adaptibar. People who seemingly did well on Adaptibar practice Q's were shocked by the actual MBE Q's calling the MBE "a blood bath." I'm assuming they knew the law well enough, so the issues may have been more complicated/trickier wording and length of the modern MBE? Do they test mostly on exceptions? Thoughts on how the actual MBE differs from Adaptibar from those who've seen both? Thanks.


The first time I took the bar was this Feb and I only used Barbri. I walked out thinking the MBE was extremely difficult and feeling like I did horribly. Turns out, I was right. Didn't pass and I got a 125 on the MBE. This summer, I almost exclusively relied on Adaptibar for my MBE prep--didn't bother with Barbri questions because I felt they were not representative at all. I say almost because I also ordered Emmanuel's 6th Edition book that everyone raves about on here. I read all the intro sections to the subjects and did some practice questions from the book (maybe around 200). Those helped too but I definitely did Adaptibar the most (I completed all their questions). Walked out of the MBE still feeling like it was very difficult, but I was MUCH more prepared. It didn't feel like a massacre and I felt like I had studied enough questions to help me answer the ones on the actual day. I passed this July, and while I don't know my actual score, I know I got between 154-159 MBE because I ordered the score reports and I can waive into DC (133) and Minnesota (154), but not North Dakota (160).

For what it's worth, I think Adaptibar was worth the investment and I would do it again if I had to! Best of luck.


Can you share how to get those score reports? Thank you! Congrats!


You just sign into your NCBE account and on the far left, select "Score Services" and then MBE from the drop down! You have to pay $25 but you get all 3 states next day. And thank you!

lawiswhack
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby lawiswhack » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:32 pm

Beyond registering again to take the exam, is there anything else to do regarding materials or stuff from my school? (I have passed the moral character app already)

Call2222222
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Call2222222 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:29 pm

Are the statistics out between all the barprep courses for bar passage rates in California? It would be interesting to see the numbers.

Pema
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Pema » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:35 pm

Someone in the July 2017 thread listed predictions for July 2017 from an unmentioned source. It looks like the source predicted the essays perfectly. Does anyone know who that source was? Any other links to predictions for Feb 2018 or personal predictions based on pattern? Thanks.

onlythreemonths
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby onlythreemonths » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:52 pm

Pema wrote:Someone in the July 2017 thread listed predictions for July 2017 from an unmentioned source. It looks like the source predicted the essays perfectly. Does anyone know who that source was? Any other links to predictions for Feb 2018 or personal predictions based on pattern? Thanks.


I think it was Dr. Saccuzzo? Imagine my face when I heard about him and read his predictions after the exam...

Pema
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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby Pema » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:43 pm

If an essay Q states a valid contract exists, or valid will or trust exists, do you skip formation and go right to answering the call of the question?

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Re: 2018 February CA Bar

Postby a male human » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:45 pm

Pema wrote:If an essay Q states a valid contract exists, or valid will or trust exists, do you skip formation and go right to answering the call of the question?

Probably wouldn't hurt to throw in a quick slam-dunk paragraph setting the validity of the K or will.




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