Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Discussions related to the bar exam are found in this forum
TheJuryMustDie

New
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:03 pm

JoeSeperac wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:But it's incredibly baffling, worrying even, to have the NCBE make any sort of statistical mistakes in a high stakes exam like this! Logic dictates that there shouldn't be any difference in candidates' overall percentile and when individual subjects percentiles are averaged.It should be the same unless there are some unknown, and may I add, bizarre statistical justifications.


Unless the bar examiners are more transparent in their procedures, you will never know. For example, in Feb 2012, there was a rounding error on NY score reports if the scaled MBE score was either a whole integer (e.g. 126.0) or had a decimal place of .5 (e.g. 134.5). In such instances, the Common Scaled Score was incorrectly rounded up to the nearest .5. For example, if someone had a scaled MBE score of 126.0, the Common Scaled Score should have been 630 (126.0 x 5), but the Common Scaled Score on F12 Score Reports was 630.5. Luckily this was a mistake that favored examinees. One has to wonder how many mistakes occur that no one knows about. Unfortunately, NCBE tells jurisdictions to release as little information as possible. For example, D.C. does not provide failing examinees with a copy of their essays (they can only attend a 2-hour review session to review their essays but can’t copy them) which makes zero sense. Arguably, examsoft could have a feature that lets you see your essays six months after the exam. So if a jurisdiction is unwilling to release examinee essays when it could be done fairly easily, what does that tell you about the grading process?


Thanks for the insight Joe! We can only hope the force (whichever direction it moves) favours us!

staygolden

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:07 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby staygolden » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:13 pm

JoeSeperac wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:But it's incredibly baffling, worrying even, to have the NCBE make any sort of statistical mistakes in a high stakes exam like this! Logic dictates that there shouldn't be any difference in candidates' overall percentile and when individual subjects percentiles are averaged.It should be the same unless there are some unknown, and may I add, bizarre statistical justifications.


Unless the bar examiners are more transparent in their procedures, you will never know. For example, in Feb 2012, there was a rounding error on NY score reports if the scaled MBE score was either a whole integer (e.g. 126.0) or had a decimal place of .5 (e.g. 134.5). In such instances, the Common Scaled Score was incorrectly rounded up to the nearest .5. For example, if someone had a scaled MBE score of 126.0, the Common Scaled Score should have been 630 (126.0 x 5), but the Common Scaled Score on F12 Score Reports was 630.5. Luckily this was a mistake that favored examinees. One has to wonder how many mistakes occur that no one knows about. Unfortunately, NCBE tells jurisdictions to release as little information as possible. For example, D.C. does not provide failing examinees with a copy of their essays (they can only attend a 2-hour review session to review their essays but can’t copy them) which makes zero sense. Arguably, examsoft could have a feature that lets you see your essays six months after the exam. So if a jurisdiction is unwilling to release examinee essays when it could be done fairly easily, what does that tell you about the grading process?



Hopefully we get good signs from J18 numbers. Florida releases their results on Monday!

cashman_11

New
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby cashman_11 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:51 pm

I took the Missouri Bar and passed.

Final Practice MBE Score (Barbri): 134
Actual MBE Scaled Score: 158.1

I'm not sure what my other scores were, I don't recall off the top of my head and I can't figure out how to look it up. Good luck everyone!

TheJuryMustDie

New
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:54 pm

cashman_11 wrote:I took the Missouri Bar and passed.

Final Practice MBE Score (Barbri): 134
Actual MBE Scaled Score: 158.1

I'm not sure what my other scores were, I don't recall off the top of my head and I can't figure out how to look it up. Good luck everyone!


Many congratulations Cashman! Your MBE score is very impressive!

Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?

al_decisis731

New
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:24 am

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby al_decisis731 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:42 pm

For Missouri, it seems that the 2018 average MBE score was 139.5 and in 2017 it was 143.8. So a big drop in averages and overall pass rate.

JoeSeperac

Bronze
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby JoeSeperac » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:37 pm

TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?

Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php

Nightcrawler

Bronze
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Nightcrawler » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:12 pm

JoeSeperac wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?

Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php


If you collect enough Missouri scores, would you also be able to calculate the national mean score? I don't know whether Missouri includes it, like CA.

JoeSeperac

Bronze
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby JoeSeperac » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:46 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
JoeSeperac wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?

Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php


If you collect enough Missouri scores, would you also be able to calculate the national mean score? I don't know whether Missouri includes it, like CA.


Yes. Missouri provides the total percentile (see below) so I can interpolate the mean if I get enough scores. It won't be exact, but it will be close. I can then tell you whether J18 is a better scale than J17.

Image

Nightcrawler

Bronze
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Nightcrawler » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:22 pm

JoeSeperac wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
JoeSeperac wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?

Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php


If you collect enough Missouri scores, would you also be able to calculate the national mean score? I don't know whether Missouri includes it, like CA.


Yes. Missouri provides the total percentile (see below) so I can interpolate the mean if I get enough scores. It won't be exact, but it will be close. I can then tell you whether J18 is a better scale than J17.

Image


Well, I really hope you'll get enough scores then because in CA we have to wait until Thanksgiving and I'm already going crazy.

Lawworld19

Bronze
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:16 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Lawworld19 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:33 am

Any themis takers on here?

How did your themis practice tests go compared to the real deal?

User avatar
oshberg28

Bronze
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby oshberg28 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:44 pm

Missouri:

Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1

Cop2lawyerNYC

New
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:51 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Cop2lawyerNYC » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:55 am

oshberg28 wrote:Missouri:

Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1


Congrats! This is roughly what my Barbri score was (145) so I’m hoping I see the same results. Although I didn’t do it in one sitting; I did the questions 25-50 at a time over 4-5 days.

I’m paranoid about my essays so I’m hoping I didn’t drop the ball on the MBE.
Did you feel you did well on the mbe when you walked out? A day or two after the test how many questions did you know you got wrong?

User avatar
oshberg28

Bronze
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:24 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby oshberg28 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:18 am

Cop2lawyerNYC wrote:
oshberg28 wrote:Missouri:

Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1


Congrats! This is roughly what my Barbri score was (145) so I’m hoping I see the same results. Although I didn’t do it in one sitting; I did the questions 25-50 at a time over 4-5 days.

I’m paranoid about my essays so I’m hoping I didn’t drop the ball on the MBE.
Did you feel you did well on the mbe when you walked out? A day or two after the test how many questions did you know you got wrong?


I felt pretty darn bad about the afternoon session of the MBE when I walked out. I felt "ok" about the morning session, and not good about the afternoon session. It felt like I guessed on half of the questions in the afternoon. I didn't review any materials after taking the test to see how many questions I knew I got wrong. After talking to several people, though, the consensus was that the Barbri test prep generally did not represent the questions on the test (in both form and substance). However, after receiving the result, Barbri was on the money - Barbri said that the average score on the actual MBE is about 20 points higher than your Barbri practice score.

I worried for a while that I legitimately might not have passed (like most people). If you did well on the Barbri practice test, that "should" translate to success on the exam.

Cop2lawyerNYC

New
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:51 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Cop2lawyerNYC » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:33 pm

oshberg28 wrote:
Cop2lawyerNYC wrote:
oshberg28 wrote:Missouri:

Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1


Congrats! This is roughly what my Barbri score was (145) so I’m hoping I see the same results. Although I didn’t do it in one sitting; I did the questions 25-50 at a time over 4-5 days.

I’m paranoid about my essays so I’m hoping I didn’t drop the ball on the MBE.
Did you feel you did well on the mbe when you walked out? A day or two after the test how many questions did you know you got wrong?


I felt pretty darn bad about the afternoon session of the MBE when I walked out. I felt "ok" about the morning session, and not good about the afternoon session. It felt like I guessed on half of the questions in the afternoon. I didn't review any materials after taking the test to see how many questions I knew I got wrong. After talking to several people, though, the consensus was that the Barbri test prep generally did not represent the questions on the test (in both form and substance). However, after receiving the result, Barbri was on the money - Barbri said that the average score on the actual MBE is about 20 points higher than your Barbri practice score.

I worried for a while that I legitimately might not have passed (like most people). If you did well on the Barbri practice test, that "should" translate to success on the exam.


Thanks! I’ve been looking at the NCBE stats and with your MBE score even an incoherent MEE would have gotten you over the finish line. You could have written nothing on the MPT and did 2 out of 6 essays and you would have still passed. Congratulations!

thethirdbaseman

New
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby thethirdbaseman » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:48 pm

Consistently got 69 or 70% on MBE practice.

Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9

staygolden

New
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:07 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby staygolden » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:32 pm

thethirdbaseman wrote:Consistently got 69 or 70% on MBE practice.

Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9



Did you use Adaptibar? I was averaging 65-72% on practice sets of 50 and the questions seemed similar. Hoping for similar results on Monday!

googlyeyes

New
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:42 am

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby googlyeyes » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:09 pm

Final Practice MBE Score: can't remember exact, but around 140
Actual MBE Scaled: 165

side note: seperac's calculator predicted I would score a 166 :mrgreen:

thethirdbaseman

New
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby thethirdbaseman » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:44 pm

staygolden wrote:
thethirdbaseman wrote:Consistently got 69 or 70% on MBE practice.

Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9



Did you use Adaptibar? I was averaging 65-72% on practice sets of 50 and the questions seemed similar. Hoping for similar results on Monday!



No, it wasn't really on my radar. I tried to notice trends and I drilled with flashcards when things felt discrete and memorizable--like crime elements. But other than that, just went through the motions of Themis

Bulldog99

New
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Bulldog99 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:45 pm

BarBri - 100% completion + Critical Pass

Simulated MBE: 148

Actual MBE (WA): 170.6

MEE: 172.6

JoeSeperac

Bronze
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby JoeSeperac » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:02 pm

Bulldog99 wrote:BarBri - 100% completion + Critical Pass

Simulated MBE: 148

Actual MBE (WA): 170.6

MEE: 172.6


Great job. Based on your scaled MBE score of 170.6, your estimated raw MBE score was about 157/175 correct. This is based on my estimate of the July 2017 MBE raw/scaled conversion. This means you answered about 90% of the graded MBE questions correctly. Based on the national statistics on the MBE, this places you in the 97.4% percentile for the MBE (based on July exams from 2011-present). This means that over the last 8 July exams, only about 2.6% of examinees nationwide did better than you on the MBE based on your scaled MBE score of 170.6.

Based on a total score of 343.2, this means your written score was 172.6. Assuming that the MEE/MPT percentiles follow the national MBE statistics, scoring a 172.6 Scaled MEE/MPT score would have placed you in the 98.2% percentile among examinees nationwide (meaning that 1.8% of examinees nationwide would have scored better than you on the MEE/MPT).

Do you mind letting letting me know your MBE subscores? It helps me figure other things out:
https://seperac.com/subscoreform.php

TheJuryMustDie

New
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:59 am

Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-average-mbe-scores-decrease/

Nightcrawler

Bronze
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Nightcrawler » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:22 pm

TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-average-mbe-scores-decrease/


Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?

TheJuryMustDie

New
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:24 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-average-mbe-scores-decrease/


Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?


Apparently sadly so. Pass rates will correspondingly reduce too.

Nightcrawler

Bronze
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby Nightcrawler » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:13 pm

TheJuryMustDie wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-average-mbe-scores-decrease/


Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?


Apparently sadly so. Pass rates will correspondingly reduce too.


This way the pass rates will always be lower and lower because of their method. The pool of repeaters will grow larger and larger in number, which will make the scale lower and lower, unless the number of quitters will be higher than the number of repeaters. Candidates now have to be better than ever to pass this exam. Good job NCBE and State Bars, you were able to succeed in your gatekeeping mission. I'm glad that law graduates will be kept away from practicing for reasons not related in any way to their fitness or ability to practice law. It would have been easier to make an even more arbitrary selection. Let's say, only blonde people with blue eyes will be allowed to practice law. We could call them "barian" people, and leave all the ones who don't qualify in some camps where they will be prisoners of their student loans.

TheJuryMustDie

New
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:27 pm

Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)

Postby TheJuryMustDie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:56 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:
TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-average-mbe-scores-decrease/


Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?


Apparently sadly so. Pass rates will correspondingly reduce too.


This way the pass rates will always be lower and lower because of their method. The pool of repeaters will grow larger and larger in number, which will make the scale lower and lower, unless the number of quitters will be higher than the number of repeaters. Candidates now have to be better than ever to pass this exam. Good job NCBE and State Bars, you were able to succeed in your gatekeeping mission. I'm glad that law graduates will be kept away from practicing for reasons not related in any way to their fitness or ability to practice law. It would have been easier to make an even more arbitrary selection. Let's say, only blonde people with blue eyes will be allowed to practice law. We could call them "barian" people, and leave all the ones who don't qualify in some camps where they will be prisoners of their student loans.


Lol! I feel you man! I'm just scared as sh*t now. This doesn't feel a good time to take the bar now.



Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 10 guests