Thanks for the insight Joe! We can only hope the force (whichever direction it moves) favours us!JoeSeperac wrote:Unless the bar examiners are more transparent in their procedures, you will never know. For example, in Feb 2012, there was a rounding error on NY score reports if the scaled MBE score was either a whole integer (e.g. 126.0) or had a decimal place of .5 (e.g. 134.5). In such instances, the Common Scaled Score was incorrectly rounded up to the nearest .5. For example, if someone had a scaled MBE score of 126.0, the Common Scaled Score should have been 630 (126.0 x 5), but the Common Scaled Score on F12 Score Reports was 630.5. Luckily this was a mistake that favored examinees. One has to wonder how many mistakes occur that no one knows about. Unfortunately, NCBE tells jurisdictions to release as little information as possible. For example, D.C. does not provide failing examinees with a copy of their essays (they can only attend a 2-hour review session to review their essays but can’t copy them) which makes zero sense. Arguably, examsoft could have a feature that lets you see your essays six months after the exam. So if a jurisdiction is unwilling to release examinee essays when it could be done fairly easily, what does that tell you about the grading process?TheJuryMustDie wrote:But it's incredibly baffling, worrying even, to have the NCBE make any sort of statistical mistakes in a high stakes exam like this! Logic dictates that there shouldn't be any difference in candidates' overall percentile and when individual subjects percentiles are averaged.It should be the same unless there are some unknown, and may I add, bizarre statistical justifications.
Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released) Forum
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
JoeSeperac wrote:Unless the bar examiners are more transparent in their procedures, you will never know. For example, in Feb 2012, there was a rounding error on NY score reports if the scaled MBE score was either a whole integer (e.g. 126.0) or had a decimal place of .5 (e.g. 134.5). In such instances, the Common Scaled Score was incorrectly rounded up to the nearest .5. For example, if someone had a scaled MBE score of 126.0, the Common Scaled Score should have been 630 (126.0 x 5), but the Common Scaled Score on F12 Score Reports was 630.5. Luckily this was a mistake that favored examinees. One has to wonder how many mistakes occur that no one knows about. Unfortunately, NCBE tells jurisdictions to release as little information as possible. For example, D.C. does not provide failing examinees with a copy of their essays (they can only attend a 2-hour review session to review their essays but can’t copy them) which makes zero sense. Arguably, examsoft could have a feature that lets you see your essays six months after the exam. So if a jurisdiction is unwilling to release examinee essays when it could be done fairly easily, what does that tell you about the grading process?TheJuryMustDie wrote:But it's incredibly baffling, worrying even, to have the NCBE make any sort of statistical mistakes in a high stakes exam like this! Logic dictates that there shouldn't be any difference in candidates' overall percentile and when individual subjects percentiles are averaged.It should be the same unless there are some unknown, and may I add, bizarre statistical justifications.
Hopefully we get good signs from J18 numbers. Florida releases their results on Monday!
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
I took the Missouri Bar and passed.
Final Practice MBE Score (Barbri): 134
Actual MBE Scaled Score: 158.1
I'm not sure what my other scores were, I don't recall off the top of my head and I can't figure out how to look it up. Good luck everyone!
Final Practice MBE Score (Barbri): 134
Actual MBE Scaled Score: 158.1
I'm not sure what my other scores were, I don't recall off the top of my head and I can't figure out how to look it up. Good luck everyone!
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Many congratulations Cashman! Your MBE score is very impressive!cashman_11 wrote:I took the Missouri Bar and passed.
Final Practice MBE Score (Barbri): 134
Actual MBE Scaled Score: 158.1
I'm not sure what my other scores were, I don't recall off the top of my head and I can't figure out how to look it up. Good luck everyone!
Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
For Missouri, it seems that the 2018 average MBE score was 139.5 and in 2017 it was 143.8. So a big drop in averages and overall pass rate.
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
If you collect enough Missouri scores, would you also be able to calculate the national mean score? I don't know whether Missouri includes it, like CA.JoeSeperac wrote:Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Yes. Missouri provides the total percentile (see below) so I can interpolate the mean if I get enough scores. It won't be exact, but it will be close. I can then tell you whether J18 is a better scale than J17.Nightcrawler wrote:If you collect enough Missouri scores, would you also be able to calculate the national mean score? I don't know whether Missouri includes it, like CA.JoeSeperac wrote:Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Well, I really hope you'll get enough scores then because in CA we have to wait until Thanksgiving and I'm already going crazy.JoeSeperac wrote:Yes. Missouri provides the total percentile (see below) so I can interpolate the mean if I get enough scores. It won't be exact, but it will be close. I can then tell you whether J18 is a better scale than J17.Nightcrawler wrote:If you collect enough Missouri scores, would you also be able to calculate the national mean score? I don't know whether Missouri includes it, like CA.JoeSeperac wrote:Missouri is providing the National Scaled Score percentile to both passing and failing examinees, so if enough J18 Missouri candidates let me know what they got, I can figure it out. Once I collect enough scores, I can also tell you your % correct for each MBE subject. If you are interested, the form to submit this information is here:TheJuryMustDie wrote:Does anyone know what the MBE mean is yet?
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Any themis takers on here?
How did your themis practice tests go compared to the real deal?
How did your themis practice tests go compared to the real deal?
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Missouri:
Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1
Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Congrats! This is roughly what my Barbri score was (145) so I’m hoping I see the same results. Although I didn’t do it in one sitting; I did the questions 25-50 at a time over 4-5 days.oshberg28 wrote:Missouri:
Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1
I’m paranoid about my essays so I’m hoping I didn’t drop the ball on the MBE.
Did you feel you did well on the mbe when you walked out? A day or two after the test how many questions did you know you got wrong?
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
I felt pretty darn bad about the afternoon session of the MBE when I walked out. I felt "ok" about the morning session, and not good about the afternoon session. It felt like I guessed on half of the questions in the afternoon. I didn't review any materials after taking the test to see how many questions I knew I got wrong. After talking to several people, though, the consensus was that the Barbri test prep generally did not represent the questions on the test (in both form and substance). However, after receiving the result, Barbri was on the money - Barbri said that the average score on the actual MBE is about 20 points higher than your Barbri practice score.Cop2lawyerNYC wrote:Congrats! This is roughly what my Barbri score was (145) so I’m hoping I see the same results. Although I didn’t do it in one sitting; I did the questions 25-50 at a time over 4-5 days.oshberg28 wrote:Missouri:
Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1
I’m paranoid about my essays so I’m hoping I didn’t drop the ball on the MBE.
Did you feel you did well on the mbe when you walked out? A day or two after the test how many questions did you know you got wrong?
I worried for a while that I legitimately might not have passed (like most people). If you did well on the Barbri practice test, that "should" translate to success on the exam.
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Thanks! I’ve been looking at the NCBE stats and with your MBE score even an incoherent MEE would have gotten you over the finish line. You could have written nothing on the MPT and did 2 out of 6 essays and you would have still passed. Congratulations!oshberg28 wrote:I felt pretty darn bad about the afternoon session of the MBE when I walked out. I felt "ok" about the morning session, and not good about the afternoon session. It felt like I guessed on half of the questions in the afternoon. I didn't review any materials after taking the test to see how many questions I knew I got wrong. After talking to several people, though, the consensus was that the Barbri test prep generally did not represent the questions on the test (in both form and substance). However, after receiving the result, Barbri was on the money - Barbri said that the average score on the actual MBE is about 20 points higher than your Barbri practice score.Cop2lawyerNYC wrote:Congrats! This is roughly what my Barbri score was (145) so I’m hoping I see the same results. Although I didn’t do it in one sitting; I did the questions 25-50 at a time over 4-5 days.oshberg28 wrote:Missouri:
Barbri practice score: 143
Scaled MBE: 164.1
I’m paranoid about my essays so I’m hoping I didn’t drop the ball on the MBE.
Did you feel you did well on the mbe when you walked out? A day or two after the test how many questions did you know you got wrong?
I worried for a while that I legitimately might not have passed (like most people). If you did well on the Barbri practice test, that "should" translate to success on the exam.
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Consistently got 69 or 70% on MBE practice.
Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9
Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
thethirdbaseman wrote:Consistently got 69 or 70% on MBE practice.
Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9
Did you use Adaptibar? I was averaging 65-72% on practice sets of 50 and the questions seemed similar. Hoping for similar results on Monday!
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Final Practice MBE Score: can't remember exact, but around 140
Actual MBE Scaled: 165
side note: seperac's calculator predicted I would score a 166
Actual MBE Scaled: 165
side note: seperac's calculator predicted I would score a 166
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
staygolden wrote:thethirdbaseman wrote:Consistently got 69 or 70% on MBE practice.
Actual MBE Scaled (released this morning in WA): 158.9
Did you use Adaptibar? I was averaging 65-72% on practice sets of 50 and the questions seemed similar. Hoping for similar results on Monday!
No, it wasn't really on my radar. I tried to notice trends and I drilled with flashcards when things felt discrete and memorizable--like crime elements. But other than that, just went through the motions of Themis
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
BarBri - 100% completion + Critical Pass
Simulated MBE: 148
Actual MBE (WA): 170.6
MEE: 172.6
Simulated MBE: 148
Actual MBE (WA): 170.6
MEE: 172.6
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Great job. Based on your scaled MBE score of 170.6, your estimated raw MBE score was about 157/175 correct. This is based on my estimate of the July 2017 MBE raw/scaled conversion. This means you answered about 90% of the graded MBE questions correctly. Based on the national statistics on the MBE, this places you in the 97.4% percentile for the MBE (based on July exams from 2011-present). This means that over the last 8 July exams, only about 2.6% of examinees nationwide did better than you on the MBE based on your scaled MBE score of 170.6.Bulldog99 wrote:BarBri - 100% completion + Critical Pass
Simulated MBE: 148
Actual MBE (WA): 170.6
MEE: 172.6
Based on a total score of 343.2, this means your written score was 172.6. Assuming that the MEE/MPT percentiles follow the national MBE statistics, scoring a 172.6 Scaled MEE/MPT score would have placed you in the 98.2% percentile among examinees nationwide (meaning that 1.8% of examinees nationwide would have scored better than you on the MEE/MPT).
Do you mind letting letting me know your MBE subscores? It helps me figure other things out:
https://seperac.com/subscoreform.php
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-ave ... -decrease/
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-ave ... -decrease/
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Apparently sadly so. Pass rates will correspondingly reduce too.Nightcrawler wrote:Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-ave ... -decrease/
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
This way the pass rates will always be lower and lower because of their method. The pool of repeaters will grow larger and larger in number, which will make the scale lower and lower, unless the number of quitters will be higher than the number of repeaters. Candidates now have to be better than ever to pass this exam. Good job NCBE and State Bars, you were able to succeed in your gatekeeping mission. I'm glad that law graduates will be kept away from practicing for reasons not related in any way to their fitness or ability to practice law. It would have been easier to make an even more arbitrary selection. Let's say, only blonde people with blue eyes will be allowed to practice law. We could call them "barian" people, and leave all the ones who don't qualify in some camps where they will be prisoners of their student loans.TheJuryMustDie wrote:Apparently sadly so. Pass rates will correspondingly reduce too.Nightcrawler wrote:Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-ave ... -decrease/
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Re: Final Practice MBE Score VS Actual MBE Scaled Score (if released)
Lol! I feel you man! I'm just scared as sh*t now. This doesn't feel a good time to take the bar now.Nightcrawler wrote:This way the pass rates will always be lower and lower because of their method. The pool of repeaters will grow larger and larger in number, which will make the scale lower and lower, unless the number of quitters will be higher than the number of repeaters. Candidates now have to be better than ever to pass this exam. Good job NCBE and State Bars, you were able to succeed in your gatekeeping mission. I'm glad that law graduates will be kept away from practicing for reasons not related in any way to their fitness or ability to practice law. It would have been easier to make an even more arbitrary selection. Let's say, only blonde people with blue eyes will be allowed to practice law. We could call them "barian" people, and leave all the ones who don't qualify in some camps where they will be prisoners of their student loans.TheJuryMustDie wrote:Apparently sadly so. Pass rates will correspondingly reduce too.Nightcrawler wrote:Oh great, the average score decreased by 2.2 points compared to last July. Does that mean that the scale will decrease by 2 points too?TheJuryMustDie wrote:Here's the link to the NCBE's report. It doesn't exactly make one jump for joy though:http://www.ncbex.org/news/july-2018-ave ... -decrease/
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