UBE transfer- Really need advice

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FND

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Re: UBE transfer- Really need advice

Postby FND » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:48 pm

QContinuum wrote:

I must have missed that part. But on a reread I did pick up the following:

musername wrote:Is it worth trying to get admitted in any of those states if I have no current day intentions to work in any of them?


My quick answer is, no, there's no point in getting admitted in a state that you have no intention to work in.
However, my second answer is yes, it is important to get admitted in at least one state, because of the following:

1) most states allow you to work in-house for a company even if you're not barred in that state, as long as you're barred in at least one state.
1a) some states allow time working in-house to count toward the experience needed for admission on motion (i.e. admitted because you've been practicing for X years).
1b) some states even allow you to work in-house for a law firm, as long as your work is sufficiently insulated from the public.
Note that this varies significantly from state to state

2) some federal jobs only require you to be barred in any state, not necessarily the state where you'll be working

3) federal practice doesn't require you to be barred in the particular state you're practicing in, as long as you're barred in at least one state
3a) the classic example is immigration law, which can be practiced in any state, so long as you're admitted somewhere. Tax court is another example
3b) However, every federal court has its own admissions standards, most of which require you to be admitted locally.
3c) care must be taken to ONLY address federal issues. Immigration lawyers who are not barred locally must stick to immigration only, and cannot advise on e.g. estate planning or family law issues that come up. Likewise, tax controversies usually aren't just limited to federal tax, but also state tax issues - and it's a lot harder to tell a client you'll only do part of the work.

4) military / military spouse. JAG doesn't care where you're admitted as long as you're barred somewhere. Military spouses can get admitted in most states on a temporary basis provided they're barred in at least one State.

QContinuum

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Re: UBE transfer- Really need advice

Postby QContinuum » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:59 pm

FND wrote:I must have missed that part.

Sorry for being unclear - I was referring not to OP but to lady_gaga, who posted later in the thread:
lady_gaga wrote:Wondering if anyone knows off the top of their heads whether a foreign attorney can get called easily in any of the 260 states?


Also, many thanks for your comprehensive guide on why it may make sense to get barred somewhere. Very helpful reading for anyone considering whether to pursue admission in a 260 state (or, I suppose, a 266 state, if interested in practicing in a 270 state...). I'd only add two additional factors why it may make sense to get barred somewhere: 1) Psychologically, it can make a real difference. It's one thing to be a "failed" examinee retaking the bar in hopes of passing the second time around. It can feel totally different and much better to be a, say, MN-licensed attorney taking the bar again to gain admission to a second state. And 2) Being a licensed attorney looks good on the ol' CV, and is likely to help one obtain employment, even in a different state. Legal employers are often very concerned about hiring someone who's failed the bar. They tend to be much less concerned about hiring an attorney already licensed in another state.

Of course, there are also downsides, namely cost, and the time/energy it takes to go through C&F in another state. Down the road, ongoing CLE and registration requirements may also be a hassle. So there's definitely pros and cons... but on balance, I think the balance tilts in favor of seeking admission in a 260 state - preferably MN, and if not, then MO.

FND

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Re: UBE transfer- Really need advice

Postby FND » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:11 pm

QContinuum wrote: Legal employers are often very concerned about hiring someone who's failed the bar. They tend to be much less concerned about hiring an attorney already licensed in another state.

Totally forgot about this, and it's very true. I know of attorneys even in 260 states who are very worried about hiring someone who hasn't passed the bar yet. When I looked to lateral, the few times I was asked about taking the bar again, I confidently replied that I considered it a non-issue, I've passed a bar before, I can pass it again, and the matter was quickly put to rest. Not once did a passing score ever get mentioned, nor was there any discussion that the state I was applying to might have a higher passing score than where I was admitted. (nor did I volunteer that my score might not have been high enough to get admitted in said state)

QContinuum

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Re: UBE transfer- Really need advice

Postby QContinuum » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:46 am

FND wrote:Not once did a passing score ever get mentioned, nor was there any discussion that the state I was applying to might have a higher passing score than where I was admitted. (nor did I volunteer that my score might not have been high enough to get admitted in said state)

This is, I think, a very helpful artifact of the fact that the UBE really only took off starting ~2016, and most attorneys senior enough to be interviewers still remember the pre-UBE days, when every state had its own bar exam.

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