Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

michelle3908
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Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby michelle3908 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:49 pm

Hi All,

(I'm going to be a little sappy and give a motivational speech here)

I know this has been a very stressful few months for all of us and I truly felt like I had been hit by a Mack Truck after I was finished with the exam yesterday. From what I saw/heard the past two days, there was no one walking around thinking they knocked it out the ballpark in my state, (even attorneys who had been practicing for years in other states). Most people are unsure of how they did and are anxious about the results. But worrying about it between now and October is not going to do anything to change the results. Instead, we should all take a moment and think about all we have accomplished so far in life: graduating from college, surviving three years of law school, and taking one of the most difficult exams ever. Many people don't even get those opportunities in life. So, even though it will be stressful waiting for the results, I think we should all take a moment to be proud of what all we have accomplished so far in our lives and realize that if we have to retake it that it isn't the end of the world.

L_William_W
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby L_William_W » Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:55 pm

This sounds nice and I applaud you for your enthusiasm, but there are no moral victories. You either win or lose. Of course everyone busted their asses preparing for the bar. At the end of the day, however, the only thing that matters is the result. Moral victories won't get you jobs or enable you to feed your family or go on vacations.

I'm licensed in NJ. On Tuesday and Wednesday, I took NY. If it doesn't work out then I'll fight again in February.

bluewin888
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby bluewin888 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:30 pm

it is better to review the material from time to time during the waiting.. in case a retake in feb is needed.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:48 pm

bluewin888 wrote:it is better to review the material from time to time during the waiting.. in case a retake in feb is needed.

No it's not. Don't do this. Don't think about it until the results come out.

jdk
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby jdk » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:04 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Don't think about it until the results come out.


So much easier said than done! You must have taken the bar a long time ago; I still think about last February's even though I passed. :lol:

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:06 pm

jdk wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Don't think about it until the results come out.


So much easier said than done! You must have taken the bar a long time ago; I still think about last February's even though I passed. :lol:

I know it's easier said than done, but I still gotta say it.

sgd19
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby sgd19 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:54 pm

it is better to review the material time to time, at least superficially, so you don't forget it. in case you find out later you need to retake the exam in feb, you won't have forgotten it all by then

S0M21L
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby S0M21L » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:08 am

michelle3908 wrote:Hi All,

(I'm going to be a little sappy and give a motivational speech here)

I know this has been a very stressful few months for all of us and I truly felt like I had been hit by a Mack Truck after I was finished with the exam yesterday. From what I saw/heard the past two days, there was no one walking around thinking they knocked it out the ballpark in my state, (even attorneys who had been practicing for years in other states). Most people are unsure of how they did and are anxious about the results. But worrying about it between now and October is not going to do anything to change the results. Instead, we should all take a moment and think about all we have accomplished so far in life: graduating from college, surviving three years of law school, and taking one of the most difficult exams ever. Many people don't even get those opportunities in life. So, even though it will be stressful waiting for the results, I think we should all take a moment to be proud of what all we have accomplished so far in our lives and realize that if we have to retake it that it isn't the end of the world.


+1

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:21 am

sgd19 wrote:it is better to review the material time to time, at least superficially, so you don't forget it. in case you find out later you need to retake the exam in feb, you won't have forgotten it all by then

No. This is a waste of time.

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dans1006
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby dans1006 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:24 am

bluewin888 wrote:it is better to review the material from time to time during the waiting.. in case a retake in feb is needed.


I'm with ^^ this guy. I'm not saying extend the misery and go HAM for the 2 months in between but, particularly if you felt like you were having a problem integrating and applying the information, take this time to sort through the material that you felt was most confusing and try to UNDERSTAND it instead of just trying to memorize it. If I failed, it will be because I tried to stuff a bunch of unintegrated outline points into my head, without understanding their interplay and rationale. Instead, what I needed to do was understand a little bit more about the WHY instead of just knowing how it was applied in the example given in the outline. That next level of understanding is not harder to do (it might be easier in fact) but it requires slowing down. I'm going to downshift over the next couple of months while I wait and start trying to understand WHY the rules are the way they are. There are exceptions, of course. But for the most part, there is an overarching logic to this stuff, and that is what I was missing.

Those people who you saw who crushed the MBE and were walking out before the 2 hour mark... they didn't necessarily jam MORE info into their head than we did. They just had the stuff sorted into logical little brain-binders with tabs and a table of contents, whereas most of us were frantically sorting through our unorganized brain-notes trying to find that one piece of scratch paper where we scribbled down what the exception to that exception was.

So I know it's not for everybody, but I'm going to start sorting through those scraps and making my binders. If it's all for naught and I find out I passed this go round, great. If not, so be it. I will have a plan of attack ready for February.

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cron1834
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby cron1834 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:32 am

I can't see a reason to study until you get scores back, particularly when you consider that most people pass and it would be 2-3 months of wasted effort if you were in the majority. Hell, even if the bar graded my exam today, and told me I failed this evening, I wouldn't study for a couple months anyway. October - February should be sufficient.

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CAnow
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby CAnow » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:42 am

I'm going to Disneyland!

sgd19
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby sgd19 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:45 am

cron1834 wrote:I can't see a reason to study until you get scores back, particularly when you consider that most people pass and it would be 2-3 months of wasted effort if you were in the majority. Hell, even if the bar graded my exam today, and told me I failed this evening, I wouldn't study for a couple months anyway. October - February should be sufficient.


passage rate in my state is close to 50% so it's a majority by a hairline. the trend seems to be that passage rates are going down nationally. law is oversaturated and rather than regulate entry into the field at the law school admissions level, it's depressingly done after someone sacrifices 3 years of their life and tacks on debt. not having a bar licenses heavily restricts your options in finding work. so if you failed, you need to be more prepared to pass the next time around. taking a few months off can be nice but you'd be surprised at how much information leaks from your brain. yes it will be easier the next time around to study, but it will still take time to re-learn the material and you might as well keep learning while it's still fresh in your head, albeit not so intensely.

Samarcan
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby Samarcan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:49 am

dans1006 wrote:
bluewin888 wrote:it is better to review the material from time to time during the waiting.. in case a retake in feb is needed.


I'm with ^^ this guy. I'm not saying extend the misery and go HAM for the 2 months in between but, particularly if you felt like you were having a problem integrating and applying the information, take this time to sort through the material that you felt was most confusing and try to UNDERSTAND it instead of just trying to memorize it. If I failed, it will be because I tried to stuff a bunch of unintegrated outline points into my head, without understanding their interplay and rationale. Instead, what I needed to do was understand a little bit more about the WHY instead of just knowing how it was applied in the example given in the outline. That next level of understanding is not harder to do (it might be easier in fact) but it requires slowing down. I'm going to downshift over the next couple of months while I wait and start trying to understand WHY the rules are the way they are. There are exceptions, of course. But for the most part, there is an overarching logic to this stuff, and that is what I was missing.

Those people who you saw who crushed the MBE and were walking out before the 2 hour mark... they didn't necessarily jam MORE info into their head than we did. They just had the stuff sorted into logical little brain-binders with tabs and a table of contents, whereas most of us were frantically sorting through our unorganized brain-notes trying to find that one piece of scratch paper where we scribbled down what the exception to that exception was.

So I know it's not for everybody, but I'm going to start sorting through those scraps and making my binders. If it's all for naught and I find out I passed this go round, great. If not, so be it. I will have a plan of attack ready for February.


I kind of agree with this, too. Here's the main reason why: my biggest problem during the exam was that I was so taken aback by the types of questions being asked. I didn't understand the wording, the approach, why some answer choices were saying what they were saying as the basis for being a correct answer. I suspect other people had this problem too: the test prep company I used (Themis) did not have questions like these, or stress the concepts tested.

So the lesson is to learn the actual content, not the manner in which it is tested. That way, for the bar itself, I won't be so thrown by the way the questions are being asked -- that will matter less because (hopefully) I'll know the underlying law, rather than just know how Themis tests it. On my Themis practice sets and practice exams, I was consistently hitting in the mid-60% correct. On the actual exam, as I recall more and more of the questions, I think I could easily have gotten in the mid-50%s, which I believe means I'd fail. So the lesson is to really know the material, and not just rely on the test prep company's way of testing it, which can become a crutch that undermines you when the questions on the actual exam are different.

(And yes, I know some old timers on this board would rather we just move on and not think about it. Not so easy to do that!! I appreciate that at least a few others also feel as I do. After all, of the 100% of test-takers who feel like shit and think they failed, some ~30% of us actually do fail. So at least ~30% of us feeling this way will end up having our worst fears realized!!)

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cron1834
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby cron1834 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:58 am

I guess it depends on what you think about yourself as a test-taker. If I fail, it'll be because I didn't take it seriously enough and studied inefficiently. Giving myself 6 months instead of 4 is not going to change that, and in fact might make it LESS likely that I use my time wisely. If you struggled with law school exams, struggled with the LSAT, are not great at retention, etc., then your approach might make sense. But if that isn't true about you, then I'm not sure how studying 6 months in advance is helpful. I'll forget whatever I do in August by February anyway.

NB12017
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby NB12017 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:21 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
sgd19 wrote:it is better to review the material time to time, at least superficially, so you don't forget it. in case you find out later you need to retake the exam in feb, you won't have forgotten it all by then

No. This is a waste of time.


Under no circumstances should you be reviewing material right now. Your brain is still too wired to the exam for that to do any good. You'll review a subject, that'll create a prompt for some specific question, and you'll wonder if you answered it right. In other words, you'd be reviewing the exam, not the material. Nothing good can come from that.

There are good reasons to review material before your results are released -- especially if your results aren't due until November, and you're exceptionally weak on a particular subject and/or it's relevant to what you want to do. But not now.

You do need to take some time to distance yourself from the material and that specific application.

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Asroma
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby Asroma » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:41 am

cron1834 wrote:I guess it depends on what you think about yourself as a test-taker. If I fail, it'll be because I didn't take it seriously enough and studied inefficiently. Giving myself 6 months instead of 4 is not going to change that, and in fact might make it LESS likely that I use my time wisely. If you struggled with law school exams, struggled with the LSAT, are not great at retention, etc., then your approach might make sense. But if that isn't true about you, then I'm not sure how studying 6 months in advance is helpful. I'll forget whatever I do in August by February anyway.

I forgot what I studied the last 2 weeks of May.

annaedwards
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby annaedwards » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:48 am

As a foreign test taker, there are a lot of gaps in my knowledge base that would benefit from studying non-bar prep material. Which is what I'm going to do. Not full time, but an hour or two a day. Bar prep material is superficial and NCBEX needs to create an exam as dissimilar to bar prep simulation as possible, in order to keep pass rates low. The only way to push your odds to passing above 90%, regardless of the stomach flu, weird bathroom disturbances and weird experimental questions that throw you off is to know the foundational principles as well as possible.

Rhiannon17
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby Rhiannon17 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:48 am

Samarcan wrote:
dans1006 wrote:
bluewin888 wrote:it is better to review the material from time to time during the waiting.. in case a retake in feb is needed.


I'm with ^^ this guy. I'm not saying extend the misery and go HAM for the 2 months in between but, particularly if you felt like you were having a problem integrating and applying the information, take this time to sort through the material that you felt was most confusing and try to UNDERSTAND it instead of just trying to memorize it. If I failed, it will be because I tried to stuff a bunch of unintegrated outline points into my head, without understanding their interplay and rationale. Instead, what I needed to do was understand a little bit more about the WHY instead of just knowing how it was applied in the example given in the outline. That next level of understanding is not harder to do (it might be easier in fact) but it requires slowing down. I'm going to downshift over the next couple of months while I wait and start trying to understand WHY the rules are the way they are. There are exceptions, of course. But for the most part, there is an overarching logic to this stuff, and that is what I was missing.

Those people who you saw who crushed the MBE and were walking out before the 2 hour mark... they didn't necessarily jam MORE info into their head than we did. They just had the stuff sorted into logical little brain-binders with tabs and a table of contents, whereas most of us were frantically sorting through our unorganized brain-notes trying to find that one piece of scratch paper where we scribbled down what the exception to that exception was.

So I know it's not for everybody, but I'm going to start sorting through those scraps and making my binders. If it's all for naught and I find out I passed this go round, great. If not, so be it. I will have a plan of attack ready for February.


I kind of agree with this, too. Here's the main reason why: my biggest problem during the exam was that I was so taken aback by the types of questions being asked. I didn't understand the wording, the approach, why some answer choices were saying what they were saying as the basis for being a correct answer. I suspect other people had this problem too: the test prep company I used (Themis) did not have questions like these, or stress the concepts tested.

So the lesson is to learn the actual content, not the manner in which it is tested. That way, for the bar itself, I won't be so thrown by the way the questions are being asked -- that will matter less because (hopefully) I'll know the underlying law, rather than just know how Themis tests it. On my Themis practice sets and practice exams, I was consistently hitting in the mid-60% correct. On the actual exam, as I recall more and more of the questions, I think I could easily have gotten in the mid-50%s, which I believe means I'd fail. So the lesson is to really know the material, and not just rely on the test prep company's way of testing it, which can become a crutch that undermines you when the questions on the actual exam are different.

(And yes, I know some old timers on this board would rather we just move on and not think about it. Not so easy to do that!! I appreciate that at least a few others also feel as I do. After all, of the 100% of test-takers who feel like shit and think they failed, some ~30% of us actually do fail. So at least ~30% of us feeling this way will end up having our worst fears realized!!)


I used Themis, too and completed about 75% of the coursework. I did critical pass flashcards along with this. I feel this exact same way. Very taken aback about how the questions were asked and what was asked. I took Themis because they publish their pass rates, I liked the shorter lectures, and I loved how individualized you can make it. And also loved studying anywhere and from my iPad If need be. I know we shouldn't worry, but a lot of us feel like we bombed the bar and like you said, for 30% of us, that will be true. I know one person who failed 3 times with Kaplan after being on law review and being projected to pass with a cushion via Kaplan. I know another person who was Top 10% and failed in July 2016, passed Feb 2017. They were projected to pass with Barbi. Know another person who failed July 2016 and Feb 2017 with Themis. Knowing that many people who failed and failed more than once is what has me nervous. I really don't want to spend Christmas break having to study for this crap again. I truly did all I could do this summer. I've never studied so much or sacrificed so much of my life for something.

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lavarman84
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby lavarman84 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:36 am

Some of you come across as incredibly neurotic. You have to be cray-cray to want to study material while you wait for your scores.

OnTheRise
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby OnTheRise » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:51 am

There is absolutely no reason to study while you wait. Take the next couple months and enjoy life again, go to the movies, hang out with friends, and hope for the best. There's such a thing as studying too much and studying while you wait would be it

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Alt123
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby Alt123 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:04 am

I can't see how anyone would think that studying before you get results as a good idea and I say this as someone in a state that fails 2/3 of the applicants.

I would only understand that mindset if you didn't try hard at all the first time around.

Ssparker
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby Ssparker » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:18 pm

I don't feel "proud," to be stupid enough to fall for the many scams related to entering this profession (law school, bar prep, insane laptop fee that comes with ZERO TECH SUPPORT DURING THE EXAM, etc...). My spellchecker failed to work during the exam, so i'm sure this will cost me points (despite the fact that they claim spelling supposedly won't impact your score...which is yet another lie). I feel like a god dam worthless fool. If I had known how horrendous the certification process was in CA I would have NEVER have gone to law school in this state. Everyone please beware of CA, where they think it's cute to fail massive amounts of people for no justifiable reason, whilst failing to lift a finger to protect clients in this state from incompetent lawyers and corrupt prosecutors (who get ZERO sanctions even after pleading guilty to federal and state fraud charges). The guy behind "pizzagate" is even deemed by the CA bar association to be of suitable moral character to practice law in CA. God I was an idiot for not doing my research on this sooner. If suicide was covered by life insurance maybe i'd have one option for paying my parents back for helping me pay the obscene interest accumulating on my student loans while i sit here and wait until November for CA to send out the results, but alas it is not. If anyone knows how/where to sell a kidney to pay off all this debt, that'd be real helpful.

Ssparker
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby Ssparker » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:23 pm

lavarman84 wrote:Some of you come across as incredibly neurotic. You have to be cray-cray to want to study material while you wait for your scores.


Some of us ARE "cray-cray"...I know I am at this point. I failed twice, and each time wished i had kept studying so as not to lose all the garbage I memorized already. Hope I passed this time, cuz if not, i'm going to move to a tree fort in the forest where hopefully all the student loan companies can't find me.

sgd19
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Re: Be Proud for What You've Accomplished

Postby sgd19 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:33 pm

Ssparker wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:Some of you come across as incredibly neurotic. You have to be cray-cray to want to study material while you wait for your scores.


Some of us ARE "cray-cray"...I know I am at this point. I failed twice, and each time wished i had kept studying so as not to lose all the garbage I memorized already. Hope I passed this time, cuz if not, i'm going to move to a tree fort in the forest where hopefully all the student loan companies can't find me.


exactly my thoughts here. not everyone is a first time taker.

if you don't pass i'd also suggest going to an easier state for the time being. just become an attorney wherever for the time being and practice. then while you are working, take the bar exam of the difficult state and make the transition. otherwise, failing multiple times will mess with your psyche. no one state is worth your sanity and you should be wise to walk away from the nonsense.




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