How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

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SowhatsNU

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How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby SowhatsNU » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:26 pm

Wallowing in misery here.

esther0123

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby esther0123 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:30 pm

I was asking this exact same question. My state has 80+% passrate for first time takers and I have no idea how I'm gonna do this. It's gonna look even worse if I fail the bar with this high of a pass rate.

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cnk1220

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby cnk1220 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:22 am

esther0123 wrote:I was asking this exact same question. My state has 80+% passrate for first time takers and I have no idea how I'm gonna do this. It's gonna look even worse if I fail the bar with this high of a pass rate.



For several reasons- a bare boned answer on the essays is often considered "passing", and you don't need to know 100% of the mbe questions to pass either- around the mid 60% will suffice, also everything is scaled and set to a curve as well, giving you more of a buffer room to pass. Lastly, you are compared to your peer test takers on the scale, all of whom are for the most part overwhelmed, having had the same amount of time to study as you, so nobody is doing perfect on the mbe, or writing perfect essay answers.

MoeS99

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby MoeS99 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:31 am

Right!? I've been a good test taker my whole life, but I'm getting absolutely crushed by this exam. I'm forgetting information I learned the day before, I'm still confused about major concepts, and I haven't even gotten started on 90% of the MEE subjects.

The high pass rate is both a blessing (confidence booster) and a curse (more embarrassing if I fail).

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Alt123

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby Alt123 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:46 am

34% last sitting in my state.

:))))))))))))))))

Southpaw89

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby Southpaw89 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:58 am

Can you get a 3-4 on the essays for simply applying the facts well, even if the law isn't accurate?

soonerfreak

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby soonerfreak » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:11 am

Remember yall, this is a minimum competency exam. The lowest bar a state has set to practice law. Don't study to get the barebones passing score but also don't let yourself get stressed thinking you need to have a perfect test to pass. This isn't law school, there are no grades, no rankings, just pass or not pass.

Samarcan

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby Samarcan » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:22 pm

In contrast to part of what someone said above, the bar exam (at least NY) is NOT curved.

soonerfreak

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby soonerfreak » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:12 pm

Samarcan wrote:In contrast to part of what someone said above, the bar exam (at least NY) is NOT curved.


Is that in regards to the essays or they don't even scale the MBE either?

RaceJudicata

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:19 pm

soonerfreak wrote:
Samarcan wrote:In contrast to part of what someone said above, the bar exam (at least NY) is NOT curved.


Is that in regards to the essays or they don't even scale the MBE either?


Maybe I'm wading into semantics (and statistics that I don't fully understand)...

But I agree that the bar is not "curved" -- I take 'curve' to imply that a certain number of people must pass. However, the exam is definitely scaled in a way that makes it comparable to past exams.

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Toubro

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby Toubro » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:27 am

RaceJudicata wrote:
soonerfreak wrote:
Samarcan wrote:In contrast to part of what someone said above, the bar exam (at least NY) is NOT curved.


Is that in regards to the essays or they don't even scale the MBE either?


Maybe I'm wading into semantics (and statistics that I don't fully understand)...

But I agree that the bar is not "curved" -- I take 'curve' to imply that a certain number of people must pass. However, the exam is definitely scaled in a way that makes it comparable to past exams.


Yes, there's no curve, just like the LSAT. It just happens to be that you get neat little bells each time but you can see below that they're not identical each time (something you'd expect with a strictly-enforced curve).

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ChangeGoinCome

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby ChangeGoinCome » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:11 am

Thinking about this every single day man

Moabit

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby Moabit » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:14 pm

Good question in the thread title. The answer is that the test prep businesses do a great job in instilling anxiety in the candidates and ripping financial benefits of that anxiety. Those who fail promote the same misconception that the exam is hard because it soothes their bruised egos. Those who passed and grossly overstudied don't want to accept that they wasted a lot of time.
:lol:
So good luck to everyone who is still trying to conquer the bar. (But don't worry, the time is not completely wasted. Much of what you learn you need to know to be a competent attorney.)

acr

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby acr » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:45 pm

The Bar is easy and it doesn't take much (raw score wise) to pass.

I passed easily (UBE) without studying, and I was a lazy law student (during school).

The "rigor" of the Bar is hilariously trumped up by test-prep companies who make a fortune off law students' stress and neurosis, and by lawyers who like to inflate the public's perception of their accomplishments.

You'll be fine.

JoeSeperac

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby JoeSeperac » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:06 am

acr wrote:The Bar is easy and it doesn't take much (raw score wise) to pass.

I passed easily (UBE) without studying, and I was a lazy law student (during school).

The "rigor" of the Bar is hilariously trumped up by test-prep companies who make a fortune off law students' stress and neurosis, and by lawyers who like to inflate the public's perception of their accomplishments.

You'll be fine.

The national pass rate for First-Time examinees in July is 78% (based on NCBE data from 1995-2017). To determine whether you are at-risk of failing, enter your information into my UBE Score Estimator:

http://www.seperac.com/zcalc-passcalc.php

The calculator does a good job of estimating the scores of First Time Domestic examinees because there a lot of solid data available. The calculator is much more unreliable with repeaters and foreign examinees because there is much less data for these demographics. As I collect more data from examinees, the calculator should get more reliable, but currently only 3% of examinees who use the calculator follow up with me with their results so it will be a while. However, if the calculator estimates you to pass by 20+ points and you are at 60-65% correct or better in overall MBE practice, I would expect you to pass comfortably.

Bottom line, the best predictor of MBE success are your MBE practice scores. While there are always outliers, examinees usually score close to their MBE practice scores. For example, for the examinees who failed J18 and filled out my Retaker form, their average in MBE practice was 56% correct while their actual MBE score was about 54% correct. Keep in mind this is an average. For example, one examinee reported answering 40% in practice but scored 59% on the MBE exam. Another examinee reported answering 65% in practice but scored 54% on the MBE exam. However, in general, these scores correlate pretty closely. I find the same is generally true with passers.

So take the UBE Score estimate with a grain of salt, but look at your current MBE practice scores as the final arbiter. If the calculator has you passing by 20 points and you are at 70% correct or better overall in MBE practice, you are in very good territory and the results will likely be on point. However, if you are only 60% correct overall in MBE practice, you need to focus more because your results will likely shade down (making it possibly too close to call).

ChangeGoinCome

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby ChangeGoinCome » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:13 pm

Thanks for information guys. Makes me feel somewhat better.

sleeplessindc

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby sleeplessindc » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:28 am

acr wrote:The Bar is easy and it doesn't take much (raw score wise) to pass.

I passed easily (UBE) without studying, and I was a lazy law student (during school).

The "rigor" of the Bar is hilariously trumped up by test-prep companies who make a fortune off law students' stress and neurosis, and by lawyers who like to inflate the public's perception of their accomplishments.

You'll be fine.


Didn't you write last November that you "Took the July UBE and got a high enough score for some states, but not the state I took the bar in." viewtopic.php?f=41&t=276805&p=10363476#p10360022 That means you failed the bar in the state where you took it.

The bar exam is a test that requires a lot of quality studying to pass. It's still beatable by a wide range of applicants, although in the aggregate different subgroups have different pass rates (that overall produce a high %).

letsplayball

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Re: How is Bar Passage Rate SOOO high, when the test seems SOOO hard?

Postby letsplayball » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:39 am

completely agree! This test seems impossible!! How bar passage is in the 80%'s is insane to me lol



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