California Bar Moral Character Application

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brb009

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby brb009 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:19 pm

My status said "Paper Application Received - Moral Character Application Under Review." Now it just says "Moral Character Application Under Review." Does that mean progress at all? Submitted about 3-4 months ago

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:39 pm

brb009 wrote:My status said "Paper Application Received - Moral Character Application Under Review." Now it just says "Moral Character Application Under Review." Does that mean progress at all? Submitted about 3-4 months ago


Mine never said anything until it said "under review," which it has said for 4.5 months.

siriuslysaucy422

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby siriuslysaucy422 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:13 pm

BrainToast wrote:
MandyNC wrote:What is the nature of the the thing they say you failed to disclose?


Academic probation for one semester 15 years ago in undergrad. Seriously.

It was stated twice in my app. This is cronyism. 27% pass rate and lazy incompetant analysts to keep people out of the bar.


I didn't realize that we were required to include instances of academic probation.

Scholastic Discipline
15.5 Have you ever BEEN FOUND TO HAVE VIOLATED A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY HONOR CODE OR been informally or formally been dropped, suspended, warned, placed on disciplinary probation, expelled, or requested to resign or allowed to resign in lieu of discipline from any college or university (including law school), or otherwise subjected to discipline by any such institution or requested or advised by any such institution to discontinue your studies therein?

Would academic probation all under "warned"?

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:43 am

siriuslysaucy422 wrote:
BrainToast wrote:
MandyNC wrote:What is the nature of the the thing they say you failed to disclose?


Academic probation for one semester 15 years ago in undergrad. Seriously.

It was stated twice in my app. This is cronyism. 27% pass rate and lazy incompetant analysts to keep people out of the bar.


I didn't realize that we were required to include instances of academic probation.

Scholastic Discipline
15.5 Have you ever BEEN FOUND TO HAVE VIOLATED A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY HONOR CODE OR been informally or formally been dropped, suspended, warned, placed on disciplinary probation, expelled, or requested to resign or allowed to resign in lieu of discipline from any college or university (including law school), or otherwise subjected to discipline by any such institution or requested or advised by any such institution to discontinue your studies therein?

Would academic probation all under "warned"?



"[...]or otherwise subjected to discipline by any such institution [....]" There it is, in black and white. Academic probation is disciplinary in nature. If you have ever been disciplined for anything in an educational setting, you have to disclose. Also, what exactly is the poster referring to when they state "academic" probation? What are the facts here? Did they fail a class or get caught cheating? I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that whatever it was, it was far more nefarious than merely failing a finger-painting class.

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:48 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
siriuslysaucy422 wrote:
BrainToast wrote:
MandyNC wrote:What is the nature of the the thing they say you failed to disclose?


Academic probation for one semester 15 years ago in undergrad. Seriously.

It was stated twice in my app. This is cronyism. 27% pass rate and lazy incompetant analysts to keep people out of the bar.


I didn't realize that we were required to include instances of academic probation.

Scholastic Discipline
15.5 Have you ever BEEN FOUND TO HAVE VIOLATED A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY HONOR CODE OR been informally or formally been dropped, suspended, warned, placed on disciplinary probation, expelled, or requested to resign or allowed to resign in lieu of discipline from any college or university (including law school), or otherwise subjected to discipline by any such institution or requested or advised by any such institution to discontinue your studies therein?

Would academic probation all under "warned"?



"[...]or otherwise subjected to discipline by any such institution [....]" There it is, in black and white. Academic probation is disciplinary in nature. If you have ever been disciplined for anything in an educational setting, you have to disclose. Also, what exactly is the poster referring to when they state "academic" probation? What are the facts here? Did they fail a class or get caught cheating? I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that whatever it was, it was far more nefarious than merely failing a finger-painting class.



Academic probation is not discipline. It's a notification from the school that grades must increase within a certain amount of time. Discipline is a school's response to a student's wrongful act. Failing classes are not wrongful acts.

The fact that the the application specifically inquires about "disciplinary" probation, and not academic probation, is further proof that the bar is not asking about instances where the school simply notified the student to increase his/her grades.

siriuslysaucy422

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby siriuslysaucy422 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:03 pm

That's how I read it as well. If I wanted to confirm, who would I contact?

ADM1985

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby ADM1985 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:24 pm

You are not required to disclose academic probation unless it results in academic dismissal (per my analyst).

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:59 pm

ADM1985 wrote:You are not required to disclose academic probation unless it results in academic dismissal (per my analyst).


So, in regards to the poster who claims that they are being held up over academic probation that they did disclose, the logical inference is that there is something more than just failing a class. Academic probation can be disciplinary in nature, and it's up to the bar to decide, not the applicant. If it can result in dismissal, it is most certainly disciplinary in nature. Err on the side of caution.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:04 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:

Academic probation is not discipline. It's a notification from the school that grades must increase within a certain amount of time. Discipline is a school's response to a student's wrongful act. Failing classes are not wrongful acts.

The fact that the the application specifically inquires about "disciplinary" probation, and not academic probation, is further proof that the bar is not asking about instances where the school simply notified the student to increase his/her grades.


If it can or does result in dismissal, it's disciplinary in nature. It's not for the applicant to decide. It's for the bar to determine. Failing grades aren't the only grounds for academic probation. Poor attendance, poor cooperation, poor effort, all can get someone on academic probation, and raise red flags for the analyst. Disclosure is always the best policy. Always. If all an applicant has to worry about is a failed basket-weaving class in their undergrad years, there's nothing to worry about.

estefanchanning

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby estefanchanning » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:17 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
ADM1985 wrote:You are not required to disclose academic probation unless it results in academic dismissal (per my analyst).


So, in regards to the poster who claims that they are being held up over academic probation that they did disclose, the logical inference is that there is something more than just failing a class. Academic probation can be disciplinary in nature, and it's up to the bar to decide, not the applicant. If it can result in dismissal, it is most certainly disciplinary in nature. Err on the side of caution.


you reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yX_1gJ_51M

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:56 pm

estefanchanning wrote:
InterAlia1961 wrote:
ADM1985 wrote:You are not required to disclose academic probation unless it results in academic dismissal (per my analyst).


So, in regards to the poster who claims that they are being held up over academic probation that they did disclose, the logical inference is that there is something more than just failing a class. Academic probation can be disciplinary in nature, and it's up to the bar to decide, not the applicant. If it can result in dismissal, it is most certainly disciplinary in nature. Err on the side of caution.


you reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yX_1gJ_51M


You remind me of many things as well. A lawyer isn't one of them. Your analyst told you something, but you didn't get it in writing and can't point to anywhere that it exists in writing. And when challenged, you don't have any other argument except a cartoon? I'm not buying it. If your analyst gave you that information, then it's in writing somewhere. But it's not, soooooo......

The fact are this: the poster stated that they disclosed the mere academic probation, but the committee is holding up the application for failure to disclose the same probation.

Now, are we going to infer that the committee is corrupt, as the poster encouraged us to do, or are we, as trained lawyers, going to ask why the committee would tag a mere instance of academic probation that occurred decades ago, since according to your very special analyst, the poster wasn't required to disclose the academic probation in the first place? It's a flaw in your logic called a non-sequitur. One thing can't possibly follow the other. If the poster wasn't required to declare the academic probation, then why would the committee tag it for further investigation? Huh?

(And that's how a real lawyer argues, baby.)

estefanchanning

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby estefanchanning » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:15 pm

You must not have many friends. Also, you're misquoting--I'm not the one who said that my analyst confirmed that academic probation needn't be disclosed. Your "lawyerly" argument is kind of shitty if you can't keep your facts straight.

ADM1985

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby ADM1985 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:45 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:

Academic probation is not discipline. It's a notification from the school that grades must increase within a certain amount of time. Discipline is a school's response to a student's wrongful act. Failing classes are not wrongful acts.

The fact that the the application specifically inquires about "disciplinary" probation, and not academic probation, is further proof that the bar is not asking about instances where the school simply notified the student to increase his/her grades.


If it can or does result in dismissal, it's disciplinary in nature. It's not for the applicant to decide. It's for the bar to determine. Failing grades aren't the only grounds for academic probation. Poor attendance, poor cooperation, poor effort, all can get someone on academic probation, and raise red flags for the analyst. Disclosure is always the best policy. Always. If all an applicant has to worry about is a failed basket-weaving class in their undergrad years, there's nothing to worry about.


Actually, I was told that their previous application until around the end of 2016 specifically asked for academic probation to be listed but they took out that verbage because it was no longer required to be disclosed.

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:38 pm

I just got my written notice that I passed the moral character determination application. :)

Still 3 to 4 weeks before I get my admission packet though :(

So it took a bit over 6 months for the bar to finalize it in my situation. And my background was not spotless (two misdemeanors).

justanotheruser

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby justanotheruser » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:06 am

So I just submitted my extension of moral character application last week. Expiration date was yesterday. Does the fact that my previous application has expired and the extension is pending affect my overall status in any way negatively?

Thanks

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:38 am

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:I just got my written notice that I passed the moral character determination application. :)

Still 3 to 4 weeks before I get my admission packet though :(

So it took a bit over 6 months for the bar to finalize it in my situation. And my background was not spotless (two misdemeanors).


Congratulations! Thank you for posting. Even with misdemeanors, an applicant is likely to be approved as long they disclose the information and can show they have rehabilitated themselves. Nicely done.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:17 pm

I found this SDC Bar Association's page. I thought it might prove helpful for some posters:

https://www.sdcba.org/index.cfm?pg=Ethics-in-Brief--5-27-2014-2

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:12 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:I just got my written notice that I passed the moral character determination application. :)

Still 3 to 4 weeks before I get my admission packet though :(

So it took a bit over 6 months for the bar to finalize it in my situation. And my background was not spotless (two misdemeanors).


Congratulations! Thank you for posting. Even with misdemeanors, an applicant is likely to be approved as long they disclose the information and can show they have rehabilitated themselves. Nicely done.


Thank you.


Still anxiously waiting for the admissions materials though. This is the start of the 3rd week.

stillwaiting2018

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby stillwaiting2018 » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:28 pm

Read through the thread and seeing a lot of differing experiences. They received my application on 3/19. I received an e-mail stating the initial review was complete on 4/9. I passed the Feb Exam and waiting until the 91st day to call. An analyst has been assigned. She said all was good with my references and background check. I asked her what else there was left to do and she said, "I don't know." She wouldn't give me any information beyond that. Will I really be waiting the full 180 days?? This is torture!

lawlurk

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby lawlurk » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:28 am

Here's my timeline for what it may be worth to anyone. I submitted on the late side, and thought I would be waiting on this for much much longer. I don't have anything in my past that would be cause for concern, no academic disciplinary anything, no criminal record. When I asked if they would be a reference, I also urged my references to do their best to mail back their requested info as soon as they could since I applied a bit late. Looks like everyone was rather organized and timely. Never contacted anyone at the bar, just waited.

March 13: Application Received. (I mailed it out about a week prior from SD)

June 27: Received email stating "This will confirm that the initial processing of the Application for Determination of Moral Character you filed with this office has been completed" This email did not include who I was assigned to.

July 9: Received letter of positive moral character determination. (letter postmarked and dated July 6)

stillwaiting2018

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby stillwaiting2018 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:10 pm

lawlurk wrote:Here's my timeline for what it may be worth to anyone. I submitted on the late side, and thought I would be waiting on this for much much longer. I don't have anything in my past that would be cause for concern, no academic disciplinary anything, no criminal record. When I asked if they would be a reference, I also urged my references to do their best to mail back their requested info as soon as they could since I applied a bit late. Looks like everyone was rather organized and timely. Never contacted anyone at the bar, just waited.

March 13: Application Received. (I mailed it out about a week prior from SD)

June 27: Received email stating "This will confirm that the initial processing of the Application for Determination of Moral Character you filed with this office has been completed" This email did not include who I was assigned to.

July 9: Received letter of positive moral character determination. (letter postmarked and dated July 6)


Was yours the initial application or an extension?

lawlurk

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby lawlurk » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:24 pm

stillwaiting2018 wrote:
lawlurk wrote:Here's my timeline for what it may be worth to anyone. I submitted on the late side, and thought I would be waiting on this for much much longer. I don't have anything in my past that would be cause for concern, no academic disciplinary anything, no criminal record. When I asked if they would be a reference, I also urged my references to do their best to mail back their requested info as soon as they could since I applied a bit late. Looks like everyone was rather organized and timely. Never contacted anyone at the bar, just waited.

March 13: Application Received. (I mailed it out about a week prior from SD)

June 27: Received email stating "This will confirm that the initial processing of the Application for Determination of Moral Character you filed with this office has been completed" This email did not include who I was assigned to.

July 9: Received letter of positive moral character determination. (letter postmarked and dated July 6)


Was yours the initial application or an extension?


Should have specified, it was my initial application. First and only.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:39 am

Has anyone been denied and then re-applied? How is the process different the second time? How were your rehabilitative efforts analyzed by the committee?

justanotheruser

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby justanotheruser » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:21 pm

stillwaiting2018 wrote:Was yours the initial application or an extension?


Can anyone confirm if the extension takes as long as the application to process? Thanks.

Underoath

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Underoath » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:18 pm

Hi everyone, I submitted my moral character application in May 2018, but sent in my paper application with materials a few days ago. I am starting to panic because it says the file must be complete with your documentation within 60 days or your application is abandoned. What should I do? I don't have another $500+ to give them or even to file an extension. Am I screwed? I see other people on here not submitting things at once, but still being ok.



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