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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:56 am
by existentcomp
So four months after submitting my MC application I got a request for info minor stuff that I responded to the next day. A month later I got a letter stating the app was complete and in filed status. The letter stated that they will now conduct the background investigation. So nothing was pulled on background such as credit or lawsuits etc until filed status? Just frustrated as I feel they sat on it four five months and are starting now? IS that how it works or did they request anything since submitting? I dont have anything in my background but the wait will throw me off for a position IM a front runner for.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:43 pm
by WhatsUP?
existentcomp wrote:So four months after submitting my MC application I got a request for info minor stuff that I responded to the next day. A month later I got a letter stating the app was complete and in filed status. The letter stated that they will now conduct the background investigation. So nothing was pulled on background such as credit or lawsuits etc until filed status? Just frustrated as I feel they sat on it four five months and are starting now? IS that how it works or did they request anything since submitting? I dont have anything in my background but the wait will throw me off for a position IM a front runner for.


My exact experience so far. So you are not alone. Five months after submitting, I got a request for some minor information (name of spouse). And then, like you, one month later, I got a letter stating the application was considered complete but to not contact them for 90 days from the date of the letter as the investigation can take 6 months! So, hang in there my friend!!!!! (I will do the same) Fingers crossed for you and good luck!!!!

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:43 pm
by existentcomp
I guess that means nothing was done until the completed status and it starts now. You would think with what they make in fees for the bar and this application they would have a better stream lined system. What this tells me is the ca bar isn't this enigma that is so protective over the legal profession in that they scrutinize ever application line for line if it takes them four months to get it to completed status. Lets face it once they get finger prints for the criminal background the rest of it is a stream lined online system, checking court records for judgements credit etc. They are probably under manned, I can deal with that its just frustrating that's all. The analyst I spoke to last month was very nice and indicated they were behind. Ive spoken to two people in the office and all were pretty cool about talking to you, and I think they get it also and do their best on a customer service level.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:31 pm
by Moabit
existentcomp wrote:I guess that means nothing was done until the completed status and it starts now.

If you only read a number of people's stories posted in this very thread over the last 3-4 months, including mine, you will see that your statement is not accurate.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:19 am
by existentcomp
Well apologies if I’m wrong but it feels like it when they tell you after five months we begin the investigation now. Personally not concerned with the app itself never been arrested never been drunk no drugs etc . Have a few late payments in a few credit cards from a business that’s it . No red flags whatsoever. So from reading the thread and going back I do see some people were hit with issues right after submission, but overall I do see they sit on them for sometime. Nevertheless wrong or not they are under manned to say the least it’s a big state although I think Law school applications are down in general and see this balancing out in the future coupled with everything being online nowadays.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:37 am
by yespasscbx
existentcomp wrote:Well apologies if I’m wrong but it feels like it when they tell you after five months we begin the investigation now. Personally not concerned with the app itself never been arrested never been drunk no drugs etc . Have a few late payments in a few credit cards from a business that’s it . No red flags whatsoever. So from reading the thread and going back I do see some people were hit with issues right after submission, but overall I do see they sit on them for sometime. Nevertheless wrong or not they are under manned to say the least it’s a big state although I think Law school applications are down in general and see this balancing out in the future coupled with everything being online nowadays.


Based on the feedback in this thread, they mainly do 'procedural review' of your materials. They decide if everything needed is in the box; for example, if you have red flags, you're requested to submit addendum; or if you submitted your app before this new AIMS system, you're requested to provide your spouse name (because it was not asked in the app before the new system).
When you receive an email stating that your app is completed and filed, it's the start of 'substantive review' of the contents of your materials, and they don't want to be contacted within 90 days from the date of this email.
It's not that they sit on YOUR materials for months before you receive the email of completion. It's that you wait in the line of thousands of APPLICANTS to go through these two stages.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:05 am
by Sobriquet44
Yeah the bar is apparently seriously understaffed and it's getting really frustrating because they are taking longer and longer to get anything done. At this point, they need to either split, hire more staff or actually implement a maximum deadline because the 180 days minimun means nothing at all.

existentcomp wrote:I guess that means nothing was done until the completed status and it starts now. You would think with what they make in fees for the bar and this application they would have a better stream lined system. What this tells me is the ca bar isn't this enigma that is so protective over the legal profession in that they scrutinize ever application line for line if it takes them four months to get it to completed status. Lets face it once they get finger prints for the criminal background the rest of it is a stream lined online system, checking court records for judgements credit etc. They are probably under manned, I can deal with that its just frustrating that's all. The analyst I spoke to last month was very nice and indicated they were behind. Ive spoken to two people in the office and all were pretty cool about talking to you, and I think they get it also and do their best on a customer service level.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:13 pm
by rcharter1978
existentcomp wrote:Well apologies if I’m wrong but it feels like it when they tell you after five months we begin the investigation now. Personally not concerned with the app itself never been arrested never been drunk no drugs etc . Have a few late payments in a few credit cards from a business that’s it . No red flags whatsoever. So from reading the thread and going back I do see some people were hit with issues right after submission, but overall I do see they sit on them for sometime. Nevertheless wrong or not they are under manned to say the least it’s a big state although I think Law school applications are down in general and see this balancing out in the future coupled with everything being online nowadays.


Expecting rational decision making from the CA bar in this matter is pointless.

The best you can do is what you're doing here and vent to people about it because the process is a bit silly and I don't think the depth of review really keeps out bad actors. Certainly not enough to be worth it.

However, it's not going to change and the California bar has no incentive to streamline or speed up the process. We're all going to keep paying our dues and sucking it up.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:33 pm
by CEReds
So frustrated by this wait.
And I try to be understanding but it’s not easy when your job is at stake. I hope it comes to an end soon

rcharter1978 wrote:
existentcomp wrote:Well apologies if I’m wrong but it feels like it when they tell you after five months we begin the investigation now. Personally not concerned with the app itself never been arrested never been drunk no drugs etc . Have a few late payments in a few credit cards from a business that’s it . No red flags whatsoever. So from reading the thread and going back I do see some people were hit with issues right after submission, but overall I do see they sit on them for sometime. Nevertheless wrong or not they are under manned to say the least it’s a big state although I think Law school applications are down in general and see this balancing out in the future coupled with everything being online nowadays.


Expecting rational decision making from the CA bar in this matter is pointless.

The best you can do is what you're doing here and vent to people about it because the process is a bit silly and I don't think the depth of review really keeps out bad actors. Certainly not enough to be worth it.

However, it's not going to change and the California bar has no incentive to streamline or speed up the process. We're all going to keep paying our dues and sucking it up.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:13 pm
by Sobriquet44
Speaking of the wait, do any of you know if the MPRE results expire in California?
I know Bar Examn results expire after 5 years if you have not been admitted but I can't find anything on the MPRE results.

CEReds wrote:So frustrated by this wait.
And I try to be understanding but it’s not easy when your job is at stake. I hope it comes to an end soon

rcharter1978 wrote:
existentcomp wrote:Well apologies if I’m wrong but it feels like it when they tell you after five months we begin the investigation now. Personally not concerned with the app itself never been arrested never been drunk no drugs etc . Have a few late payments in a few credit cards from a business that’s it . No red flags whatsoever. So from reading the thread and going back I do see some people were hit with issues right after submission, but overall I do see they sit on them for sometime. Nevertheless wrong or not they are under manned to say the least it’s a big state although I think Law school applications are down in general and see this balancing out in the future coupled with everything being online nowadays.


Expecting rational decision making from the CA bar in this matter is pointless.

The best you can do is what you're doing here and vent to people about it because the process is a bit silly and I don't think the depth of review really keeps out bad actors. Certainly not enough to be worth it.

However, it's not going to change and the California bar has no incentive to streamline or speed up the process. We're all going to keep paying our dues and sucking it up.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:23 pm
by QContinuum
Sobriquet44 wrote:Speaking of the wait, do any of you know if the MPRE results expire in California?
I know Bar Examn results expire after 5 years if you have not been admitted but I can't find anything on the MPRE results.

MPRE results don't expire in CA. See https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Ex ... xamination

You will see CA even takes pre-1999 MPRE scores that NCBE refuses to release.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:58 pm
by Sobriquet44
Good to know! Thanks.
QContinuum wrote:
Sobriquet44 wrote:Speaking of the wait, do any of you know if the MPRE results expire in California?
I know Bar Examn results expire after 5 years if you have not been admitted but I can't find anything on the MPRE results.

MPRE results don't expire in CA. See https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Ex ... xamination

You will see CA even takes pre-1999 MPRE scores that NCBE refuses to release.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:53 am
by Tommytop
I’m wondering if someone who has recently (or even not so recently) gotten a positive moral character determination who had already passed the Bar could tell me how long it took to receive the oath card (I know the official wait time estimate is 3-4 weeks) and is there anyway to get it quicker (by going to the CA Bar offices In LA or SF in person for example)? Thank You.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:45 am
by Anonymous User
Hi just wondering if anyone can share their recent timelines to understand what the current processing times are as we head into 2020. I am almost at the 180 day mark post submission of the MCA, but still stuck in completed/filed status for the past 3 weeks. This could help me understand where I am in the queue.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Just another data point:

Submitted 11/11/19
Received "completed/filed" email 1/16/2020 (application status is "Pending Internal Review")

I was expecting 4-5 months or so between submission and completion, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:48 pm
by kmbrenn2
Tommytop wrote:I’m wondering if someone who has recently (or even not so recently) gotten a positive moral character determination who had already passed the Bar could tell me how long it took to receive the oath card (I know the official wait time estimate is 3-4 weeks) and is there anyway to get it quicker (by going to the CA Bar offices In LA or SF in person for example)? Thank You.


Happened to me! Got my positive determination on 12/11/19, was told by the bar that my name would be on the motion submitted 12/18/19. Got my oath card in the mail on 1/3/20. So it took the full 3 weeks from positive determination to get the oath card. I’m unsure if there is any way to expedite the process by visiting an office in person. I’m thinking not, but maybe someone else knows better than me.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:47 pm
by CEReds
Congrats Kmbrenn2!!

I was wondering if you can share a timeline as to when you submitted your application; when you received notice that it was filed/submitted and then finally when you received the news that the wait is over?

kmbrenn2 wrote:
Tommytop wrote:I’m wondering if someone who has recently (or even not so recently) gotten a positive moral character determination who had already passed the Bar could tell me how long it took to receive the oath card (I know the official wait time estimate is 3-4 weeks) and is there anyway to get it quicker (by going to the CA Bar offices In LA or SF in person for example)? Thank You.


Happened to me! Got my positive determination on 12/11/19, was told by the bar that my name would be on the motion submitted 12/18/19. Got my oath card in the mail on 1/3/20. So it took the full 3 weeks from positive determination to get the oath card. I’m unsure if there is any way to expedite the process by visiting an office in person. I’m thinking not, but maybe someone else knows better than me.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:01 pm
by WhatsUP?
Anonymous User wrote:Just another data point:

Submitted 11/11/19
Received "completed/filed" email 1/16/2020 (application status is "Pending Internal Review")

I was expecting 4-5 months or so between submission and completion, so I'm pleasantly surprised.


That is fast - Congrats!! Hopefully, that is a good sign for a fast approval.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:15 pm
by Anonymous User
Another (less positive) data point:
- Took 170 days from submitting application to receiving "Notice: Completed/Filed Application for Determination of Moral Character" email and moving to "Pending Internal Review" status.
- At day 216, no movement yet, have not even been assigned an investigator at this stage.
- Nothing complex or problematic about my MC application, except longish work history (law is second career, did not go to law school straight after undergrad).

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:39 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:Another (less positive) data point:
- Took 170 days from submitting application to receiving "Notice: Completed/Filed Application for Determination of Moral Character" email and moving to "Pending Internal Review" status.
- At day 216, no movement yet, have not even been assigned an investigator at this stage.
- Nothing complex or problematic about my MC application, except longish work history (law is second career, did not go to law school straight after undergrad).

I'm in a very similar spot as you. Submitted my application later in June, but everything else matches closely. Been in "pending internal review" since November.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:43 am
by Anonymous User
Does anybody have any recent Positive data points? Most of the replies here are all at 200 + days.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:31 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another (less positive) data point:
- Took 170 days from submitting application to receiving "Notice: Completed/Filed Application for Determination of Moral Character" email and moving to "Pending Internal Review" status.
- At day 216, no movement yet, have not even been assigned an investigator at this stage.
- Nothing complex or problematic about my MC application, except longish work history (law is second career, did not go to law school straight after undergrad).

I'm in a very similar spot as you. Submitted my application later in June, but everything else matches closely. Been in "pending internal review" since November.


Similar to mine.
Submitted - June 22, 2019
Notice of Completion/Filed & 'Pending Internal Review' Status - Nov 15, 2019
No more movement since then. No 'Intro to Investigator'. My App has simple work experience and no red flags.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:29 pm
by Sobriquet44
BTW does anyone know what those statuses mean? Mine went from filed status to pending internal review then pending applicant and pending internal review again. I'm way over the 180 days and I don't know what any of these statuses mean.

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another (less positive) data point:
- Took 170 days from submitting application to receiving "Notice: Completed/Filed Application for Determination of Moral Character" email and moving to "Pending Internal Review" status.
- At day 216, no movement yet, have not even been assigned an investigator at this stage.
- Nothing complex or problematic about my MC application, except longish work history (law is second career, did not go to law school straight after undergrad).

I'm in a very similar spot as you. Submitted my application later in June, but everything else matches closely. Been in "pending internal review" since November.


Similar to mine.
Submitted - June 22, 2019
Notice of Completion/Filed & 'Pending Internal Review' Status - Nov 15, 2019
No more movement since then. No 'Intro to Investigator'. My App has simple work experience and no red flags.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:03 pm
by WhatsUP?
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Another (less positive) data point:
- Took 170 days from submitting application to receiving "Notice: Completed/Filed Application for Determination of Moral Character" email and moving to "Pending Internal Review" status.
- At day 216, no movement yet, have not even been assigned an investigator at this stage.
- Nothing complex or problematic about my MC application, except longish work history (law is second career, did not go to law school straight after undergrad).

I'm in a very similar spot as you. Submitted my application later in June, but everything else matches closely. Been in "pending internal review" since November.


Similar to mine.
Submitted - June 22, 2019
Notice of Completion/Filed & 'Pending Internal Review' Status - Nov 15, 2019
No more movement since then. No 'Intro to Investigator'. My App has simple work experience and no red flags.


Wow. My situation is very similar to both of yours. My status is "pending internal review" as I graduated from law school a while ago. Other than a long work history, I do not foresee anything complex or problematic. Does anybody know how long the "pending internal review" stage lasts?

Timeline:
-190 days (6 months + some days) from submitting to receiving "Notice: Completed/Filed."
-240 (7 months + some days) to present.
I took and passed the February 2019 bar so its obviously been a while since then as well and am really excited about an opportunity that I want to apply to. Fingers crossed for everyone.

Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:16 pm
by WhatsUP?
Anonymous User wrote:LOVE this! Congratulations Counselor!!!! Hoping mine moves quickly.

Anonymous User wrote:
kmbrenn2 wrote:Just got my clearance this morning. Here’s a timeline for anyone who may be in a similar position:

App submitted - May 13, 2019
Notice of Completion/Filed App - Oct 23, 2019
Intro to Investigator - Dec 2, 2019
Request for More Info - Dec 9, 2019
Submitted Additional Info - Dec 10, 2019
Approved - Dec 11, 2019

The request for more info was for something pretty insignificant from 9 years ago, but they needed to follow up on it. I called my investigator, who was very kind, and asked exactly what she wanted from me. Was approved very shortly after that.

Now for more waiting to get my card so I can take the oath!


Re: Anonymous = Ditto, Congratulations to kmbrenn2!

And man, kmbrenn2's application got approved in 6 months and 28 days! Maybe it since it has been the holiday season, its taking time to gain traction.