California Bar Moral Character Application

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Fri May 24, 2019 2:36 am

jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Interalia has been doing the dance with the California bar for a long, long time. I think he generally comes from a good place, and doesn't want to see anyone fall into some of the traps he has.

Things happen, but for future applicants you may want to keep a scanned copy of your application (redact your SSN if you'd like) and email the attachment to yourself so you can always have it if you need it.

jman77

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jman77 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:06 am

rcharter1978 wrote:
jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Interalia has been doing the dance with the California bar for a long, long time. I think he generally comes from a good place, and doesn't want to see anyone fall into some of the traps he has.

Things happen, but for future applicants you may want to keep a scanned copy of your application (redact your SSN if you'd like) and email the attachment to yourself so you can always have it if you need it.


"Coming from a good place" is never an excuse for being an a$$ to others. Did you read his posts? He basically called me a liar and kept insisting that I was obfuscating facts in spite of my repeated posts stating I fully disclosed what I believed needed to be disclosed and/or there was a good reason I did not disclose the traffic infraction (I just needed to see the questions to remind myself what that reason was). He even called me a liar for saying I could not access my online application. Instead of asking questions or clarifying, he jumped to his own conclusions and proceeded to post things that put me in a bad light.

Anyway, I do agree that it is a great idea to scan and email a copy of one's paper application for situations such as the one in which I've found myself. At the very least, hopefully my experience helps others be more prepared and keep their application always handy and accessible.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jptx » Fri May 24, 2019 9:52 am

jman77 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Interalia has been doing the dance with the California bar for a long, long time. I think he generally comes from a good place, and doesn't want to see anyone fall into some of the traps he has.

Things happen, but for future applicants you may want to keep a scanned copy of your application (redact your SSN if you'd like) and email the attachment to yourself so you can always have it if you need it.


"Coming from a good place" is never an excuse for being an a$$ to others. Did you read his posts? He basically called me a liar and kept insisting that I was obfuscating facts in spite of my repeated posts stating I fully disclosed what I believed needed to be disclosed and/or there was a good reason I did not disclose the traffic infraction (I just needed to see the questions to remind myself what that reason was). He even called me a liar for saying I could not access my online application. Instead of asking questions or clarifying, he jumped to his own conclusions and proceeded to post things that put me in a bad light.

Anyway, I do agree that it is a great idea to scan and email a copy of one's paper application for situations such as the one in which I've found myself. At the very least, hopefully my experience helps others be more prepared and keep their application always handy and accessible.

While I suspect better words could have been chosen, I also did not read interalia's posts to paint you in a bad light. His past posts have been useful for those going through the process, and they indicate that he has had tremendous issues with his application. Some states do not have "infractions," and all traffic offenses are considered class c misdemeanors so the question itself is at best ambiguous. I am not sure why the bar asked you about this, but I agree with you it's very very very minor.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jman77 » Fri May 24, 2019 10:04 pm

I thought I'd update this thread based on my response to the analyst's follow-up inquiry (in another one of my posts, I described how I was going to respond) and his response to my response (I submitted my response yesterday Asia time and got his response today -- I'm 15 hours ahead of Pacific Time). I'm doing so because I think it would be beneficial for other applicants and also to dispel some false information being propagated in this thread, including the information in Interalia's quote below.

Here is the response I got verbatim:

"During the review of your file we became aware of the arrest (jman77 note: this was a mischaracterization, probably inadvertent, as it was not an arrest, just a citation) in 2006. There was no information provided regarding the incident. In order to fully review your file we would need confirmation that the fine/citation was paid in full. A simple print out of the court docket, showing the fine as being paid would suffice. In the event you cannot obtain that information, a letter or certificate from the issuing agency or adjudicating agency stating no records are available would suffice. I greatly appreciate your explanation and narrative regarding the infraction. You currently have until June 21, 2019 to reply with documentation, should you require an extension to produce the information, please let me know when you will be back in the United States."

So you see, it's simply not true that if an applicant receives a follow-up inquiry from their assigned analyst, that means that the analyst found something that should have been disclosed that the applicant did not disclose. Sometimes, the analyst truly just needs additional explanation because they are only able to obtain limited information. I'll provide the requested printout or certificate when I get back to the United States and I have no doubt that will be the end of that (I've consistently maintained in my previous posts that I wasn't worried about this matter because I know there was a good reason I did not disclose the traffic infraction).

Thanks again to those who took the time to reproduce the questions per my request (special shoutout to Reasonable). You've helped me save at least a week of additional delay in the processing of my application.

I reiterate my previous request that moving forward, when someone asks for help in this thread, if one does not have anything helpful to say or cannot be responsive to the request for help, they should just refrain from posting, particularly if such posts would be based on conjecture and/or incomplete information. The process is already a stressful one, and there's no need to pile on additional stress. Also, having been through the process several times does not make one a subject matter expert and one should not project their own experience onto others' experience... each applicant's experience is unique.



InterAlia1961 wrote:
Moabit wrote:I think there is no need to induce anxiety in Jman77. (S)he stated that the follow-up question was "'asking why I didn't disclose a minor traffic infraction (turning left onto a no-left turn street from the university center) that happened 13 years ago." Jman77 was not asked why he Failed to Appear, so that's just making things up.

The instructions are pretty clear (see the earlier quote). Only those traffic violations must be reported that are 1) Failure to Appear, 2) Driving Without a License, 3) Driving with a Suspended License, 4) Reckless Driving, 5) any other traffic violations that resulted in at least a misdemeanor conviction.
An "improper turn" infraction is none of them, and thus Jman77 did not have to disclose it. It looks to me that "because the application did not ask me to disclose it" is the proper response to the curious investigator.


They found it. Jman77 didn't disclose it. The investigator thought it should've been disclosed or they wouldn't have questioned him/her about it. I've been dealing with the State Bar for five years now. I know a red flag when I see it. Jman77 has to get back to the US to check his application. Why? It's 2019. You can check the application online from anywhere. Jman77 applied online, unless he/she was previously denied. Then, and only then, did he/she have to file a paper application. Something's off here.

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat May 25, 2019 1:05 am

Well, I'm glad it's all figured out and you can enjoy your time overseas! Good luck!

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Moabit » Sat May 25, 2019 1:54 am

Thanks for posting the details of your communications with the investigator, which make for a rather instructive anecdote. Also glad it worked out well for you.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Moabit » Sat May 25, 2019 10:45 am

What was particularly interesting to me about Jman77's case is that apparently analysts do not have online access to the court records (every defense firm does!) and rely on the applicants to provide details.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby ReasonablePersonSSC » Sat May 25, 2019 11:06 am

[quote="jman77"]I thought I'd update this thread based on my response to the analyst's follow-up inquiry (in another one of my posts, I described how I was going to respond) and his response to my response (I submitted my response yesterday Asia time and got his response today -- I'm 15 hours ahead of Pacific Time). I'm doing so because I think it would be beneficial for other applicants and also to dispel some false information being propagated in this thread, including the information in Interalia's quote below.

Here is the response I got verbatim:

"During the review of your file we became aware of the arrest (jman77 note: this was a mischaracterization, probably inadvertent, as it was not an arrest, just a citation) in 2006. There was no information provided regarding the incident. In order to fully review your file we would need confirmation that the fine/citation was paid in full. A simple print out of the court docket, showing the fine as being paid would suffice. In the event you cannot obtain that information, a letter or certificate from the issuing agency or adjudicating agency stating no records are available would suffice. I greatly appreciate your explanation and narrative regarding the infraction. You currently have until June 21, 2019 to reply with documentation, should you require an extension to produce the information, please let me know when you will be back in the United States."

So you see, it's simply not true that if an applicant receives a follow-up inquiry from their assigned analyst, that means that the analyst found something that should have been disclosed that the applicant did not disclose. Sometimes, the analyst truly just needs additional explanation because they are only able to obtain limited information. I'll provide the requested printout or certificate when I get back to the United States and I have no doubt that will be the end of that (I've consistently maintained in my previous posts that I wasn't worried about this matter because I know there was a good reason I did not disclose the traffic infraction).

Thanks again to those who took the time to reproduce the questions per my request (special shoutout to Reasonable). You've helped me save at least a week of additional delay in the processing of my application.

I reiterate my previous request that moving forward, when someone asks for help in this thread, if one does not have anything helpful to say or cannot be responsive to the request for help, they should just refrain from posting, particularly if such posts would be based on conjecture and/or incomplete information. The process is already a stressful one, and there's no need to pile on additional stress. Also, having been through the process several times does not make one a subject matter expert and one should not project their own experience onto others' experience... each applicant's experience is unique.


Thanks for the shoutout and for posting the verbatim response from the analyst. I have been impressed with the quick and comprehensive responses I have received to my few inquiries about my application, and the response you posted is another example that confirms my experience.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jman77 » Sat May 25, 2019 8:04 pm

My experience with my analyst so far has been the same as Reasonable's: he's been very responsive and comprehensive (less than a day's time responding). I think the reason my application has gone beyond the prescribed 180-day period (9 months and counting) is a combination of them being understaffed and me having a fairly lengthy work experience both internationally and in the US prior to going to law school. I don't think anyone really looked at my file or even started investigating until after the transition to the new system. When I called to check on status right after 180 days had passed, all they could tell me was to wait until after the transition occurred as I would then be getting the name of the analyst assigned to my application and I could then contact them directly with any inquiries.

It is also clear to me that they have sent people (or at least hired local people) to look into my non-US employment and non-US records. There was a separate follow-up inquiry regarding civil litigation I may have been involved with in my home country (another person with the same name). CA truly is very thorough. When I was licensed in NY, it took about 5 weeks or so from the time I submitted my application to the time I went through the 2-minute interview and got approved. No follow-up inquiries at all.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jman77 » Sat May 25, 2019 8:37 pm

I should also mention that I had received an initial inquiry about 6 weeks ago, a couple of weeks after the 180-day period had passed. They asked me to provide copies of my business card and email signature, and asked me to describe how my work at my firm was being supervised, whether I was supervising CA attorneys, etc. The clear intent was to confirm I wasn't engaged in the unauthorized practice of law in CA while my application was pending.

What that told me, though, was at the time of the initial follow-up inquiry, they had not yet received reports related to their investigation (even though 6 months had already passed). Otherwise, they would have asked those other questions at that time as well.

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Sat May 25, 2019 9:48 pm

It sucks, but it makes sense to be so thorough. After you're admitted they can only disbar you once you've messed up and caused some damage. And then there is due process and you can go through a number of suspensions before you ever get disbarred

So I get it, but it still really sucks if you're generally a good person with no I'll intent who gets stuck in this moral character purgatory. It took me nearly a year to get out of it, and the issue I had was pretty basic. I'm still so glad I got an attorney to help me.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Sun May 26, 2019 2:21 pm

jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Dude, tell me about it. If you can't handle a little questioning from an anonymous online commentator, you're in for a rough time in front of the Committee. Answer the questions, all of them, honestly. As for the "new" system the state bar has in place, it's not functioning right. You're supposed to be able to see your documents. On mine, it says no appeal was filed. Had a hearing a couple of weeks ago. Don't depend on the bar's website. Ever.

They go back waaaaaay more than 10 years. In my case, they went back 24. Another applicant I know who's battling through this process had his record from 27 years ago scrutinized before being denied for filing one too many lawsuits. So, here's the truth. Anyone who is worried the bar might find something that's older than 10-years, they will.

If you didn't print out a copy of your online application, don't wait until you get back to the country. Call the Office of Admissions and tell them you need a copy. If there are any other mistakes or omissions, fix them IMMEDIATELY and be prepared to be questioned about them. There's case in California about not filling out the application properly. If you have to amend it too many times, they can deny you because it shows that you don't take the process seriously. Actually happened to someone.

I'm not questioning your integrity. I'm simply pointing out where your argument is weak. Hang in there. If all you have to answer for is the one glitch, you're fine. If there's any chance that you're worried about anything else, get out in front of it. Hire counsel if you can.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jman77 » Sun May 26, 2019 5:05 pm

I really suggest you just stop posting because the more you post, the more stupid you look. At least try to understand what's truly going on before you post. Let me try to put it in the simplest terms I can for you to enhance the chance that you understand it.

1) I am not going to go in front of the Committee.
2) I already provided my response to the analyst and it's been sorted out. He was more than satisfied with my response.
3) The reason he asked a follow up question is the report that came back to him noted that there was a citation, but did not provide any details or other information.
4) So, he just needed me to provide the details.
5) I provided the details.
6) He just needs documentation (a screenshot of the court docket will suffice) that I paid the fine.
7) If it's not possible to provide no. 6, a certification from the court that there are no longer any records of the infraction will suffice.

Got it? Here's a dose of your own medicine. I'm frankly surprised you got into law school, completed law school and passed the bar with the level of reading comprehension (more like lack thereof) you have displayed.

Again, just stop. You're starting to look more and more like a tool. Other people have already confirmed that the online system doesn't allow an applicant to access the application once it has been submitted, and yet you still keep insisting that the application can be accessed. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Stop acting like you know all there is to know about the process because it's apparent how little you know. Again, you're just making yourself look dumb.

This is my last response to you. If you still don't get it at this point, you never will and it'll just be a complete waste of time trying to explain things further to you.

InterAlia1961 wrote:
jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Dude, tell me about it. If you can't handle a little questioning from an anonymous online commentator, you're in for a rough time in front of the Committee. Answer the questions, all of them, honestly. As for the "new" system the state bar has in place, it's not functioning right. You're supposed to be able to see your documents. On mine, it says no appeal was filed. Had a hearing a couple of weeks ago. Don't depend on the bar's website. Ever.

They go back waaaaaay more than 10 years. In my case, they went back 24. Another applicant I know who's battling through this process had his record from 27 years ago scrutinized before being denied for filing one too many lawsuits. So, here's the truth. Anyone who is worried the bar might find something that's older than 10-years, they will.

If you didn't print out a copy of your online application, don't wait until you get back to the country. Call the Office of Admissions and tell them you need a copy. If there are any other mistakes or omissions, fix them IMMEDIATELY and be prepared to be questioned about them. There's case in California about not filling out the application properly. If you have to amend it too many times, they can deny you because it shows that you don't take the process seriously. Actually happened to someone.

I'm not questioning your integrity. I'm simply pointing out where your argument is weak. Hang in there. If all you have to answer for is the one glitch, you're fine. If there's any chance that you're worried about anything else, get out in front of it. Hire counsel if you can.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby apprentice2020 » Sun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm

I get that you're frustrated but I think you should avoiding venting/attacking other members on the thread.

You situation was sorted with the analyst, who is the only person that matters w.r.t. moral character determination.

If you don't agree with certain viewpoints expressed by members, then ignore it and do what you need to do, which is what you did.

Enjoy the remainder of your trip and cross your fingers for a positive determination in the near future.


jman77 wrote:I really suggest you just stop posting because the more you post, the more stupid you look. At least try to understand what's truly going on before you post. Let me try to put it in the simplest terms I can for you to enhance the chance that you understand it.

1) I am not going to go in front of the Committee.
2) I already provided my response to the analyst and it's been sorted out. He was more than satisfied with my response.
3) The reason he asked a follow up question is the report that came back to him noted that there was a citation, but did not provide any details or other information.
4) So, he just needed me to provide the details.
5) I provided the details.
6) He just needs documentation (a screenshot of the court docket will suffice) that I paid the fine.
7) If it's not possible to provide no. 6, a certification from the court that there are no longer any records of the infraction will suffice.

Got it? Here's a dose of your own medicine. I'm frankly surprised you got into law school, completed law school and passed the bar with the level of reading comprehension (more like lack thereof) you have displayed.

Again, just stop. You're starting to look more and more like a tool. Other people have already confirmed that the online system doesn't allow an applicant to access the application once it has been submitted, and yet you still keep insisting that the application can be accessed. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Stop acting like you know all there is to know about the process because it's apparent how little you know. Again, you're just making yourself look dumb.

This is my last response to you. If you still don't get it at this point, you never will and it'll just be a complete waste of time trying to explain things further to you.

InterAlia1961 wrote:
jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Dude, tell me about it. If you can't handle a little questioning from an anonymous online commentator, you're in for a rough time in front of the Committee. Answer the questions, all of them, honestly. As for the "new" system the state bar has in place, it's not functioning right. You're supposed to be able to see your documents. On mine, it says no appeal was filed. Had a hearing a couple of weeks ago. Don't depend on the bar's website. Ever.

They go back waaaaaay more than 10 years. In my case, they went back 24. Another applicant I know who's battling through this process had his record from 27 years ago scrutinized before being denied for filing one too many lawsuits. So, here's the truth. Anyone who is worried the bar might find something that's older than 10-years, they will.

If you didn't print out a copy of your online application, don't wait until you get back to the country. Call the Office of Admissions and tell them you need a copy. If there are any other mistakes or omissions, fix them IMMEDIATELY and be prepared to be questioned about them. There's case in California about not filling out the application properly. If you have to amend it too many times, they can deny you because it shows that you don't take the process seriously. Actually happened to someone.

I'm not questioning your integrity. I'm simply pointing out where your argument is weak. Hang in there. If all you have to answer for is the one glitch, you're fine. If there's any chance that you're worried about anything else, get out in front of it. Hire counsel if you can.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jman77 » Sun May 26, 2019 8:13 pm

And where is your admonition to the other person asking him to stop posting BS information in this thread? I am just going to stop posting in this thread altogether. Just not worth it.

To those who will read the posts in this thread, take whatever Interalia says with a grain (or three of salt). He posts as though he is an authority who knows everything about the process, but he is just as clueless as the rest of us. I've gotten private messages from other members as well who've complained about him, but he will continue to do what he does. He just can't help himself.

Thanks again to those who were helpful. I truly appreciate your willingness to take time to be helpful and responsive to someone in need.

apprentice2020 wrote:I get that you're frustrated but I think you should avoiding venting/attacking other members on the thread.

You situation was sorted with the analyst, who is the only person that matters w.r.t. moral character determination.

If you don't agree with certain viewpoints expressed by members, then ignore it and do what you need to do, which is what you did.

Enjoy the remainder of your trip and cross your fingers for a positive determination in the near future.


jman77 wrote:I really suggest you just stop posting because the more you post, the more stupid you look. At least try to understand what's truly going on before you post. Let me try to put it in the simplest terms I can for you to enhance the chance that you understand it.

1) I am not going to go in front of the Committee.
2) I already provided my response to the analyst and it's been sorted out. He was more than satisfied with my response.
3) The reason he asked a follow up question is the report that came back to him noted that there was a citation, but did not provide any details or other information.
4) So, he just needed me to provide the details.
5) I provided the details.
6) He just needs documentation (a screenshot of the court docket will suffice) that I paid the fine.
7) If it's not possible to provide no. 6, a certification from the court that there are no longer any records of the infraction will suffice.

Got it? Here's a dose of your own medicine. I'm frankly surprised you got into law school, completed law school and passed the bar with the level of reading comprehension (more like lack thereof) you have displayed.

Again, just stop. You're starting to look more and more like a tool. Other people have already confirmed that the online system doesn't allow an applicant to access the application once it has been submitted, and yet you still keep insisting that the application can be accessed. Just stop embarrassing yourself. Stop acting like you know all there is to know about the process because it's apparent how little you know. Again, you're just making yourself look dumb.

This is my last response to you. If you still don't get it at this point, you never will and it'll just be a complete waste of time trying to explain things further to you.

InterAlia1961 wrote:
jman77 wrote:To people like Interalia, this is not the most pleasant process we have to go through. If you are not going to be helpful to someone asking for help, the least you can do is to just keep quiet and not cast aspersions on someone else's integrity and add more unpleasantness to the situation.


Dude, tell me about it. If you can't handle a little questioning from an anonymous online commentator, you're in for a rough time in front of the Committee. Answer the questions, all of them, honestly. As for the "new" system the state bar has in place, it's not functioning right. You're supposed to be able to see your documents. On mine, it says no appeal was filed. Had a hearing a couple of weeks ago. Don't depend on the bar's website. Ever.

They go back waaaaaay more than 10 years. In my case, they went back 24. Another applicant I know who's battling through this process had his record from 27 years ago scrutinized before being denied for filing one too many lawsuits. So, here's the truth. Anyone who is worried the bar might find something that's older than 10-years, they will.

If you didn't print out a copy of your online application, don't wait until you get back to the country. Call the Office of Admissions and tell them you need a copy. If there are any other mistakes or omissions, fix them IMMEDIATELY and be prepared to be questioned about them. There's case in California about not filling out the application properly. If you have to amend it too many times, they can deny you because it shows that you don't take the process seriously. Actually happened to someone.

I'm not questioning your integrity. I'm simply pointing out where your argument is weak. Hang in there. If all you have to answer for is the one glitch, you're fine. If there's any chance that you're worried about anything else, get out in front of it. Hire counsel if you can.

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jc9812 » Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 am

I got a no-seatbelt ticket over the weekend. Any idea on how I can disclose this given that my MC file has been marked 'complete' for about a month now, and is still pending a determination?

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Moabit » Mon May 27, 2019 2:23 pm

Can you go to your applications, and select (under your case number) your pending MC application? You will then be able to see (under Feed) the tab Post (Share an update). You should be able to use it to send a note to the CA Bar. (Hopefully, it works better than the rest of their new system.) Do not forget to copy your update (prior to clicking Share) into a separate file in your own records. Needless to say, after you submit an update, you won't be able to see it any longer.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Mon May 27, 2019 4:34 pm

jman77 wrote:
Thanks again to those who were helpful. I truly appreciate your willingness to take time to be helpful and responsive to someone in need.



In need of what? If, as you now claim, you have no worries, then what did you come here looking for? You screwed up on your MC application. You got called on it. Now you want to know if they go back more than ten years. They do. But why would you ask that if 1) you're not concerned and/or 2) you don't have anything that goes back that far? I'm a tad bit worried about your temper. Control it when you get in front of the Committee. Again, if you can't handle an anonymous online commentator pointing out where your argument is weak, and it's weak, the Committee will eat your lunch. And, please, jmann77 feel free to message me and tell me just who messaged you to complain. Doesn't seem credible. Credibility is key, dude.

jc9812

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby jc9812 » Mon May 27, 2019 5:39 pm

Moabit wrote:Can you go to your applications, and select (under your case number) your pending MC application? You will then be able to see (under Feed) the tab Post (Share an update). You should be able to use it to send a note to the CA Bar. (Hopefully, it works better than the rest of their new system.) Do not forget to copy your update (prior to clicking Share) into a separate file in your own records. Needless to say, after you submit an update, you won't be able to see it any longer.


Thank you

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Moabit » Mon May 27, 2019 6:10 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:In need of what? If, as you now claim, you have no worries, then what did you come here looking for? You screwed up on your MC application. You got called on it. Now you want to know if they go back more than ten years. They do. But why would you ask that if 1) you're not concerned and/or 2) you don't have anything that goes back that far? I'm a tad bit worried about your temper. Control it when you get in front of the Committee. Again, if you can't handle an anonymous online commentator pointing out where your argument is weak, and it's weak, the Committee will eat your lunch. And, please, jmann77 feel free to message me and tell me just who messaged you to complain. Doesn't seem credible. Credibility is key, dude.


C'mon, InterAlia, it was funny for sure. At the beginning.
Jman77 will be fine. The Committee only summons and chews on those whose fitness as a lawyer raises genuine questions. With as much experience in the process as you have, you surely know this. :wink:

bacillusanthracis

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby bacillusanthracis » Tue May 28, 2019 11:51 am

jman77 wrote:My experience with my analyst so far has been the same as Reasonable's: he's been very responsive and comprehensive (less than a day's time responding)...


Yeah, see, who your analyst is can make a big difference. Mine has, without any bases, accused me of fraud, threatened to give me a negative determination on the spot (I'm 20 months in now), voices doubts I want to be a lawyer, and all other manner of rude and outrageous things. In short, this person is abusive.

I called last week as I was told to. I have yet to hear back. So I'm going to call again today.

Edited to add: yes, I've passed the California bar exam.

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Tue May 28, 2019 1:12 pm

Moabit wrote:
InterAlia1961 wrote:In need of what? If, as you now claim, you have no worries, then what did you come here looking for? You screwed up on your MC application. You got called on it. Now you want to know if they go back more than ten years. They do. But why would you ask that if 1) you're not concerned and/or 2) you don't have anything that goes back that far? I'm a tad bit worried about your temper. Control it when you get in front of the Committee. Again, if you can't handle an anonymous online commentator pointing out where your argument is weak, and it's weak, the Committee will eat your lunch. And, please, jmann77 feel free to message me and tell me just who messaged you to complain. Doesn't seem credible. Credibility is key, dude.


C'mon, InterAlia, it was funny for sure. At the beginning.
Jman77 will be fine. The Committee only summons and chews on those whose fitness as a lawyer raises genuine questions. With as much experience in the process as you have, you surely know this. :wink:


I agree, even though I love everyone's passion on what can be a fairly dry subject, I feel like we are maybe getting precariously close to trolling.

However, if I were in interalias shoes I might be pretty pissy in general, so I think he mostly takes it in stride.

Once piece of advice from interalia that I totally cosign is getting an attorney if something seems to be going sideways. My issue wasn't that complex but I am so glad I had help drafting my response to the bar, and it helped cut things off before I had to go to a hearing or provide additional clarification.

AttorneyExam

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby AttorneyExam » Fri May 31, 2019 10:59 pm

I am licensed to practice law outside of California. I practiced federal law in California for 3 years before taking and passing the bar. I included that info in my moral character application and stressed that I solely appeared before federal judges for federal matters. My analyst informed me that my file needs to be reviewed by another attorney to ensure that I was not engaged in the unauthorized practice of law (Rule 9.40/pro hac vice). I never appeared in state court so I don't understand how/why it would apply to me. On the State Bar website it states that the state bar does not have jurisdiction over federal matters/courts.

Does anyone have any info about this? Any and all input appreciated.

Thanks!

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:18 pm

Moabit wrote:C'mon, InterAlia, it was funny for sure. At the beginning.
Jman77 will be fine. The Committee only summons and chews on those whose fitness as a lawyer raises genuine questions. With as much experience in the process as you have, you surely know this. :wink:


Funny? What exactly about this process is funny? Clue me in. You have no idea what raises a question for the Committee. I'm in contact with a number of individuals who have been questioned and/or denied for reasons that don't come anywhere near moral turpitude. Lack of candor over the smallest of detail is enough to do it.

If you're reading this thread, it's because you've already been denied or are worried you will be. If you have anything in your past that you think is going to show up, no matter how distant in time it is, at least consult someone with a license before you fill out the application. If you want to know what happens to people who have to update their application more than once, Google Zachary Coughlin + California State Bar. The hearing judge said it showed a lack of candor, inexcusable negligence, and lack of respect for the process. If you did make a mistake, correct it immediately. Don't wait until you're back in country, return from vacation, or whatever other excuse you have. Fix it fast.

If you get called for an informal conference, contact someone with a license if you can afford it. It's a minefield.

Your credibility is an issue as is your character. If you can't handle someone on an anonymous forum pointing out the weaknesses in your argument, you won't do well in front of the Committee. They'll challenge everything.

caitlin1016

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby caitlin1016 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:36 pm

How can you tell if they're going through your character and fitness application? My status currently says "submitted" (I submitted in February) and I've heard from some of my reviewers that they've been contacted. Does the status change to "processing" or anything like that when it's being reviewed? Also, any thoughts on how being licensed in another jurisdiction in good standing (Illinois) for about two years affects the speed of processing? Thanks!



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