California Bar Moral Character Application

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Blueplanet

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Blueplanet » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:25 am

Please disregard the above. I've sorted it.

Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Bla Bla Bla Blah » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:23 pm

FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:
Underoath wrote:
Bla Bla Bla Blah wrote:Got a call today from the CA Bar. It wasn't my analyst, but it was whoever they pass the file onto for further review. She asked a couple of questions about my debt. I told her that it was a choice between feeding my kids or paying, so it wasn't much of a choice at all. Discussed my plans to settle the debt once I can find employment with a CA firm and get some steady money in the bank again.

And she approved me. Done with the determination! She said I will be on motion this week, and recieve my swear in packet the following week. I've never totally broken down and cried tears of happiness, but today I was close. Holy shit man! The struggle is real when you're looking for new legal positions and don't have a license.


I remember we spoke about this before in regards to can’t find a legal position with a JD but no license. I’m very happy for you. If I may ask how much debt do you have that isn’t student loans? I’m asking because I owe a substantial amount of money through loans. However, my other debt is less than $20,000, and a good portion of that is my car. So I’m hoping I will get someone to clear me as well. Congrats again!


I have over $200K in student loans. Some of my loans defaulted years ago. But I rehabbed them and all my loans are now in the income based repayment program. I disclosed it all in the moral character application. It wasn't an issue, they did not ask any further questions about it. I think as long as your loans are current in some sort of plan, then you are good to go. But if the loans are officially delinquent or in default, then the bar might make further inquiry.


Hi All,

I should update this because I spoke with the person who was just above my analyst about everything last Tuesday, and was given the thumbs up on my Moral Responsibility. She said that I should take care of my debt as soon as possible, but that she would go ahead and approve me in spite of my current state with credit card debt. When she asked the questions about why I chose not to pay, I let her know that it came down to feeding my kids or continuing paying for the debt that I racked up to secure their custody. So it wasn't really a choice... of course you feed your kids in that situation. I let her know that I plan to settle it as soon as I am in a position to do so, and she seemed satisfied with those responses. By Thursday, everything on my Bar profile had updated to complete (aka, positive moral determination [was indicated on Wed], and the court motion had gone through by Thurs). Just waiting on my swear in documents and then I can start applying to CA firms with some real weight.

To answer questions about this debt, it was at about $36,000 when I finally won custody. Not long after, the payments and debt began to balloon. I would assume I am somewhere north of $40,000 in debt with all penalties included at this point.

barprepforca

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby barprepforca » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:25 pm

Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.

JakeTappers

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby JakeTappers » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:12 pm

barprepforca wrote:Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.


Thanks. Do we get an email after we are “under review” or anything? I’ve only got the “initial processing” complete or whatever around the 180 day mark.

dabigchina

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby dabigchina » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:13 pm

So when should I start calling to check in on my app? I'm slightly under the 180 day make but I haven't heard anything except the initial review email.

Neveragain

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Neveragain » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:56 pm

barprepforca wrote:Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.


Does your admissions page show the expiration date for the positive determination?

Rounder74

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Rounder74 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:14 pm

barprepforca wrote:Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.



This is almost verbatim the same timeline I had. My only difference was that at the 90 day mark I got the email saying that initial review was complete. Then mid October I got a letter asking for additional information which I overnighted to them the day after I received the letter. Then I got approved on the same day as you did.

To answer another post, yes mine has an expiration date.

To the OP of this post, please let me know if you pass or not, I have a theory about a correlation between the speed of getting moral character apps completed in a certain time frame and bar passage. Thanks!

Rounder74

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Rounder74 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:20 pm

Neveragain wrote:
barprepforca wrote:Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.


Does your admissions page show the expiration date for the positive determination?


Mine does. What does it mean if you don't have an expiration date? If you have one does that mean you failed and that its good for that long until you pass? If you don't have one does that mean you passed and an expiration date is moot? God now Im worried! I thought because my moral character went through so quick that maybe I passed but now seeing this i am not so sure now.

Neveragain

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Neveragain » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:23 pm

Rounder74 wrote:
barprepforca wrote:Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.



This is almost verbatim the same timeline I had. My only difference was that at the 90 day mark I got the email saying that initial review was complete. Then mid October I got a letter asking for additional information which I overnighted to them the day after I received the letter. Then I got approved on the same day as you did.

To answer another post, yes mine has an expiration date.

To the OP of this post, please let me know if you pass or not, I have a theory about a correlation between the speed of getting moral character apps completed in a certain time frame and bar passage. Thanks!


Here's what my Admissions page says under moral character:

Admission Requirement: Have an active positive moral character determination on file.

Applicant Status: Requirement Satisfied(in blue- this just changed sometime between Sunday, November 4 and Wednesday, November 7)

Application status: Moral Character Application under review.

Expiration Date: Left blank. (this line was not there before my applicant status changed).

I have not received a letter yet that I am "cleared" or whatever.

Rounder74

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Rounder74 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:20 pm

Neveragain wrote:
Rounder74 wrote:
barprepforca wrote:Just wanted to give my timeline for others out there:
Applied: May 27th
Went Under Review: Early October-ish
Cleared: November 2nd.

So it looks like I got very lucky in terms of the time it took to get my application through.



This is almost verbatim the same timeline I had. My only difference was that at the 90 day mark I got the email saying that initial review was complete. Then mid October I got a letter asking for additional information which I overnighted to them the day after I received the letter. Then I got approved on the same day as you did.

To answer another post, yes mine has an expiration date.

To the OP of this post, please let me know if you pass or not, I have a theory about a correlation between the speed of getting moral character apps completed in a certain time frame and bar passage. Thanks!


Here's what my Admissions page says under moral character:

Admission Requirement: Have an active positive moral character determination on file.

Applicant Status: Requirement Satisfied(in blue- this just changed sometime between Sunday, November 4 and Wednesday, November 7)

Application status: Moral Character Application under review.

Expiration Date: Left blank. (this line was not there before my applicant status changed).

I have not received a letter yet that I am "cleared" or whatever.


Really weird. To me, it almost sounds like either a computer glitch, you are approved and someone didnt update every portion of the section when inputing it in the system, or you are still under review, and the system is messing up. I say that if you dont get a letter by Monday confirming your approval, I would call and verify and tell them about the situation just to clarify.

Syl1001

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Syl1001 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:05 am

Application originally filed: Late February 2018
Bar Exam: July 2018
Rejected: September 2018
Resubmit: September 2018
Under Review: October 2018
Determination: November 5, 2018

I am an out of state attorney who took the one-day exam in July. I had everything submitted early, and to my surprise and shock, learned that my application was rejected because the police officer who took my fingerprints for my background check forgot to date the fingerprint card next to her name. I expected to get my moral character determination next year, but received a letter yesterday that I passed the moral character. Good luck everyone.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:50 pm

Hello all. Recovering nicely. Rescheduled the informal conference to tomorrow morning. I'm wondering if anyone knows why some people get sent to the meeting in Los Angeles and some get sent to San Francisco? I'll let you know how it goes.

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:12 pm

Interalia -- I wish you luck, but I can honestly say that the nanosecond I knew there was a whiff of trouble on my character application I hired the best firm I could afford, and happily paid them to respond the the information request from the bar.

That went so well that I never had to deal with an informal hearing. And I consider it money well spent since I got approved maybe a week after submitting the additional information to the bar.

People spend countless time and money going through law school. The ability to practice depends upon this, I was happy to put it into hands far more experienced than mine.

But I wish you luck and a speedy recovery.

LilLawShark

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby LilLawShark » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:25 pm

FYI to ALL -

MPRE exam dates never expire for CA BAR.

Verified today w/ personal call to CAL State Bar Officials.

Buena Suerta a todos!

Rounder74

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Rounder74 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:05 am

rcharter1978 wrote:Interalia -- I wish you luck, but I can honestly say that the nanosecond I knew there was a whiff of trouble on my character application I hired the best firm I could afford, and happily paid them to respond the the information request from the bar.

That went so well that I never had to deal with an informal hearing. And I consider it money well spent since I got approved maybe a week after submitting the additional information to the bar.

People spend countless time and money going through law school. The ability to practice depends upon this, I was happy to put it into hands far more experienced than mine.

But I wish you luck and a speedy recovery.


Just out of curiosity, did this process take place while you were awaiting your results? If so, how close was it to results and did you pass during that period?

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:07 am

Rounder74 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:Interalia -- I wish you luck, but I can honestly say that the nanosecond I knew there was a whiff of trouble on my character application I hired the best firm I could afford, and happily paid them to respond the the information request from the bar.

That went so well that I never had to deal with an informal hearing. And I consider it money well spent since I got approved maybe a week after submitting the additional information to the bar.

People spend countless time and money going through law school. The ability to practice depends upon this, I was happy to put it into hands far more experienced than mine.

But I wish you luck and a speedy recovery.


Just out of curiosity, did this process take place while you were awaiting your results? If so, how close was it to results and did you pass during that period?


I'm maybe the one person dumb enough to have procrastinates on sending in the moral app because I assumed I had failed. So basically I sent in my application after I found out I passed the bar. Honestly my application took a long time so I'm not sure they put people who passed at the front of the line.

InterAlia1961

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:33 am

Some info on the informal conference.

It was like a difficult interview for a job you're not quite sure you're qualified for. There were three people in the room with me. One of them was a man with the initials MTG, the program manager for Moral Character Determinations. If you receive the letter, you'll see his name on the bottom of the list of names on the left side of the letter. His signature was also on my letter.

I was invited to the San Francisco office. I know that some people in the past have gone to LA. I think if you get invited to San Francisco, they're leaning towards not admitting you. San Francisco is the home office of Moral Character Determinations program manager...the guy who signed my letter. If you go there, he's going to be one of the questioners.

He's leading the effort for better collection of evidence during the informal conference in order to make things easier in State Bar Court, also in San Francisco. He will ask pointed, hard, unexpected questions. And even though the whole thing is being recorded, he's taking copious notes. Further, he's trying to get the State Bar to grant him power to subpoena information from third-parties in moral character determinations, like records from boards applicants have served on and businesses the applicant has been a partner or shareholder in.

The room is a small conference room, barely larger than the average living room.There's a small conference table that seats 8 or so. The applicant sits at the head of the table closest the door. Someone will ask you if you want water, coffee, or tea. Take the water. I was glad I did. Having a sip before diving into a hard question helped me focus.

The whole thing lasted about 45 minutes. My only complaint is that I was asked questions about an incident that occurred 26 years ago. In the letter from MTG, it specifically stated they wanted to talk about the incident that occurred in the early 2000s. MTG asked me about something law enforcement wrote in a report that I haven't seen in over two decades. I denied it. I don't care what the officer said, her version never happened. I think it was unfair to hit me something that they didn't give me a chance to at least review, especially given how long ago it happened. But I answered as well as I could.

If you go to San Francisco, even if you're driving, stay by the Airport and get a taxi or an Uber. Parking is just as bad in San Francisco as it was the last time I was there 20 years ago. Maybe even a bit worse. If you're a smoker, there's a small courtyard near the entrance to the State Bar's offices where the local smokers go. (I'm not, but my companion is.)

When the meeting was over, one of the questioners told me they would decide (Read: take a vote) by the end of the month and I would know within 30 days. I'm not making any predictions. Just waiting. But I have to tell you, seeing the news about Michael Avenatti, sort of bends me out of shape. I have never, ever done or even been accused of doing anything close what he has actually done in his shady business practices and now his latest temper tantrum. How is it that they aren't calling him to San Francisco? Toss his ass in the elevator at 180 Howard St. for the ride to the 9th floor....right now.

For the poster who asked about timing, I was previously denied, but I failed the CBX, 2x, so I wasn't in too much of a hurry to reapply, until I passed it. It took them 8 months to call me for the informal meeting this time. Last time it took 22 months. I hope that helps.

I'm happy to answer any questions that I can. There's a book on Amazon about moral character issues, but it's for Michigan, and a little overpriced. The free preview was helpful, though.

I have a new email because someone thought it would be hysterical to use my BigMartha email all over the internet. That's the price of anonymity on the internet. You can email me questions at InterAlia1961@protonmail.com. I check it once a week or so. (And no, my name is not Martha. Old college joke. You had to be there, and in the same mental state as we were at the time.)

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rcharter1978

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby rcharter1978 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:19 pm

Well, glad you made it through. Sounds stressful, good luck!

Bla Bla Bla Blah

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Re: California Bar Moral Character Application

Postby Bla Bla Bla Blah » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:18 am

I'll tell you all, don't lose hope. I think everything, including my swear in, and finally official licensing, came together last week after they processed the oath that I had to get notarized. This week I am a federal litigation associate at a great new firm with the compensation I need if I'm going to do this kind of work. Somehow it all works out in the end, but it sucks when you're in the thick of it.

Good luck all!



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