Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

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RLowry23

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby RLowry23 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:46 am

champloo wrote:not sure if you understood my explanation but you can check for yourself. it's question 4998. this question seems like one of those "we're gonna artificially lower scores by being dicks" types of questions.


Feels like I've been getting more and more those types..

villanovajew

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby villanovajew » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:00 am

Checking in at 65%. What are other people at? Also, what percent do people think they'll finish?

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Slytherpuff

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Slytherpuff » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:26 am

I think I'll probably end at around 85%. I'd be surprised if I hit 90.

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whats an updog

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby whats an updog » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:34 am

Slytherpuff wrote:I think I'll probably end at around 85%. I'd be surprised if I hit 90.


Currently at 55% here, I think I will also end around 85%

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MT Cicero

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:11 pm

whats an updog wrote:
Slytherpuff wrote:I think I'll probably end at around 85%. I'd be surprised if I hit 90.


Currently at 55% here, I think I will also end around 85%


45% here. About to step on the gas a little more though. Counting today, there are 22 days remaining. So 1.5% per day yields a 78% and 2.0% is 89%. So even though I'm on the low side, I'm not really sweating it as long as I hover around 2% a day, with occasional variances.

(Please someone tell me if my math is wrong and I should be more worried!)

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Slytherpuff

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Slytherpuff » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:18 pm

MT Cicero wrote:
whats an updog wrote:
Slytherpuff wrote:I think I'll probably end at around 85%. I'd be surprised if I hit 90.


Currently at 55% here, I think I will also end around 85%


45% here. About to step on the gas a little more though. Counting today, there are 22 days remaining. So 1.5% per day yields a 78% and 2.0% is 89%. So even though I'm on the low side, I'm not really sweating it as long as I hover around 2% a day, with occasional variances.

(Please someone tell me if my math is wrong and I should be more worried!)

Your math is right :D I'm in the same boat and banking on this too. I'll finally be hitting 50% today after a really slow/frustrating week. I'm hoping that once I get a little more of the law under my belt MBE-wise, I can start blowing through the question sets.
Last edited by Slytherpuff on Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Puffman1234

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Puffman1234 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:44 pm

At 52% here and it would be nice to get 1.5-2% a day, but I'm not gonna sweat the progress bar anymore. I think it may even hurt me because it was more like some psychological need to up the % rather than actually getting a good grasp of what I was doing that drove me...like a rat hitting the button for food pellets.

I think that mass practice (which moves the bar) is good for the MBE but it won't really matter for the state subjects, which is where I need to focus now. Watching the MBE lectures and then diving into the MBE questions seemed to have worked ok, but it doesn't work that way for the state subjects and writing essays. So if I spend a day and really get a few state subjects under my belt in terms of understanding and making an attack outline, I think I'd still call that a productive day regardless of whether I move the % bar.

My assignment for today is the MBE Exam #2 (I'll do that) and NINE essays (I won't do those...I don't even know the subjects yet, although I watched the lectures).

Also about that civ pro residency thing--it's stupid because it combines pleading requirements with determination of smj. But I do recall Jeffries saying during the lecture "an individual can have many residences but only one domicile."

lavarman84

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:05 pm

I'll be around 56% at the end of today. I'm aiming for 80%.

Puffman1234 wrote:At 52% here and it would be nice to get 1.5-2% a day, but I'm not gonna sweat the progress bar anymore. I think it may even hurt me because it was more like some psychological need to up the % rather than actually getting a good grasp of what I was doing that drove me...like a rat hitting the button for food pellets.

I think that mass practice (which moves the bar) is good for the MBE but it won't really matter for the state subjects, which is where I need to focus now. Watching the MBE lectures and then diving into the MBE questions seemed to have worked ok, but it doesn't work that way for the state subjects and writing essays. So if I spend a day and really get a few state subjects under my belt in terms of understanding and making an attack outline, I think I'd still call that a productive day regardless of whether I move the % bar.

My assignment for today is the MBE Exam #2 (I'll do that) and NINE essays (I won't do those...I don't even know the subjects yet, although I watched the lectures).

Also about that civ pro residency thing--it's stupid because it combines pleading requirements with determination of smj. But I do recall Jeffries saying during the lecture "an individual can have many residences but only one domicile."


I'm with you there. I'm going to take some days off to focus on learning the state materials for essays. Themis isn't ideal for that. I'm aiming for 80%. I think I can hit that, but if I don't, it's whatever. I'm going to make sure I hit 75% just because that's the goal I set.

As for the Civ Pro question, I agree, but it's stupid to me because the question said "domiciled" for both parties. It's just testing semantics to trip people up. That always makes me mad. If you're going to make me learn all these subjects, you can at least test the law in a fairly straightforward manner. :lol:

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MelaPela

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MelaPela » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:50 pm

At 62%, and just aiming for 75%-80%. At this point I'm mostly going to do a lot of MBE questions (and going to alternate between Themis and Adaptibar), and some of the practice essays for topics I don't know very well. Not going to worry about the progress bar so long as I feel like I'm learning (despite sometimes failing to hit the target, I feel like I'm learning new nuances everytime I do the MBE question sets, which is somewhat comforting).

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby jmt » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:34 pm

My MBE practice scores still range between 45%-56%. Im trying my best to follow Themis sched but there are just days when the tasks are too much that there's no time left for some memorization. Plus I feel that Themis questions are so hard, so complicated, and with soooo many facts. Any tips on how to improve MBE and beat those Themis MBEs. And by the way, I only have a couple of PQs that I achieved or exceeded the goal, so I don't know where this will lead me. :cry:

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby star fox » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:18 pm

jmt wrote:My MBE practice scores still range between 45%-56%. Im trying my best to follow Themis sched but there are just days when the tasks are too much that there's no time left for some memorization. Plus I feel that Themis questions are so hard, so complicated, and with soooo many facts. Any tips on how to improve MBE and beat those Themis MBEs. And by the way, I only have a couple of PQs that I achieved or exceeded the goal, so I don't know where this will lead me. :cry:

If at the end of a set, the review shows that question ends up being way far on the "Hard" end and like 30 % of people actually guessed the right answer, I basically tell myself not to worry about it too much. It's usually just some really narrow exception that applies in a weird circumstance, so it's like "hey, I'll try and remember it but I'm not going to stress over it and confound the main focus of the rule." If a question is Easy/Middle and I get it wrong those are the ones I try to commit to understanding and hone in on. And if it's just some timing based CivPro based question, I'm like "well fuck you buddy for making me learn which of the hundred different days limit corresponds with this particular situation."

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby mimi2255 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:37 pm

Anyone taking the VA bar exam? I am really struggling trying to get through all the topics for the essay portion of the exam. I feel like I am wasting my time watching lectures and should really focus more on rule memorization. HELP! :(

Also for everyone else, particularly those doing Adapitbar--I am doing SO much better on the Adapitbar MBE questions than I am on the Themis questions. Averaging about 67% on Adaptibar but always barely hitting the goals for Themis problem sets. Anyone else having this issue?

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star fox

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby star fox » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:43 pm

mimi2255 wrote:Anyone taking the VA bar exam? I am really struggling trying to get through all the topics for the essay portion of the exam. I feel like I am wasting my time watching lectures and should really focus more on rule memorization. HELP! :(

Also for everyone else, particularly those doing Adapitbar--I am doing SO much better on the Adapitbar MBE questions than I am on the Themis questions. Averaging about 67% on Adaptibar but always barely hitting the goals for Themis problem sets. Anyone else having this issue?

Not on Adaptibar but hopefully that just means Themis is ramping up the difficulty to over-prepare as a way to keep their pass rate high. Adaptibar uses real MBE questions, right?

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the_pakalypse

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby the_pakalypse » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:13 pm

Anyone else notice that the essay model answers typically follow IRCA, and not IRAC? I've been doing issue, rule, facts/application and then conclusion, but it does seem cleaner to just do issue, rule, conclusion, and then follow up with facts and info.

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Bass

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Bass » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:04 pm

mimi2255 wrote:Anyone taking the VA bar exam? I am really struggling trying to get through all the topics for the essay portion of the exam. I feel like I am wasting my time watching lectures and should really focus more on rule memorization. HELP! :(

Also for everyone else, particularly those doing Adapitbar--I am doing SO much better on the Adapitbar MBE questions than I am on the Themis questions. Averaging about 67% on Adaptibar but always barely hitting the goals for Themis problem sets. Anyone else having this issue?


Everyone's learning style is different, do what worked for you back in law school...as for me, I stopped watching the lectures right after real property when I realised they weren't helping my memorisation, my strategy now is to repetitively review and mark up the outlines or the final review outlines plus drilling through as many practice questions as time allows.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby droit » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:10 pm

When/how have people been going about reviewing earlier subjects? There isn't an assignment telling me to review lecture topics from MBE #1, and I know I that should, but I'm just trying to figure out how to fit it into my schedule and what to work on.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby michelle3908 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:22 pm

Hi, is anyone getting study tips from their state representative, particularly about condensing the outline/notes into smaller rule pages (3-4 pages) during the "review" tasks, etc.? I guess my state rep is wanting me to make my own "lean sheets", which makes sense, I guess you learn more by doing it yourself. I keep trying to condense down my notes, but it seems like I cannot reach 3-4 pages (unless I dropped to like 6pt font). If you are condensing and making rule sheets, are you just writing down the rules that you keep forgetting/missing?

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MelaPela

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MelaPela » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:18 pm

Can any property enthusiasts explain this question/answer to me?

A buyer purchased a residence and financed the purchase with a loan of $500,000 from a bank. As a condition of the loan, the buyer granted the bank a mortgage on the residence. Through an oversight by one of its employees, the bank failed to record the mortgage. Subsequently, the buyer, who ran a business, borrowed $75,000 from her uncle to enable the buyer to meet the financial needs of the business. Several months later, when the buyer had not repaid her uncle, the uncle demanded and the buyer granted the uncle a mortgage on the buyer’s residence after telling the uncle about the bank’s mortgage. The uncle promptly and properly recorded the mortgage.

The recording act of the applicable jurisdiction provides, “No conveyance or mortgage of real property shall be good against subsequent purchasers for value unless the same be first recorded according to law.”

Which of the following is the bank’s best argument that its mortgage has priority over the uncle’s mortgage?
A The uncle had notice of the bank’s mortgage before obtaining his mortgage.
B The bank’s mortgage is a purchase-money mortgage.
C The value of the bank’s mortgage is greater than the uncle’s mortgage.
D The bank obtained its mortgage from the buyer before the uncle obtained his mortgage.

Correct Answer is D.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Puffman1234 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:27 pm

MelaPela wrote:Can any property enthusiasts explain this question/answer to me?

A buyer purchased a residence and financed the purchase with a loan of $500,000 from a bank. As a condition of the loan, the buyer granted the bank a mortgage on the residence. Through an oversight by one of its employees, the bank failed to record the mortgage. Subsequently, the buyer, who ran a business, borrowed $75,000 from her uncle to enable the buyer to meet the financial needs of the business. Several months later, when the buyer had not repaid her uncle, the uncle demanded and the buyer granted the uncle a mortgage on the buyer’s residence after telling the uncle about the bank’s mortgage. The uncle promptly and properly recorded the mortgage.

The recording act of the applicable jurisdiction provides, “No conveyance or mortgage of real property shall be good against subsequent purchasers for value unless the same be first recorded according to law.”

Which of the following is the bank’s best argument that its mortgage has priority over the uncle’s mortgage?
A The uncle had notice of the bank’s mortgage before obtaining his mortgage.
B The bank’s mortgage is a purchase-money mortgage.
C The value of the bank’s mortgage is greater than the uncle’s mortgage.
D The bank obtained its mortgage from the buyer before the uncle obtained his mortgage.

Correct Answer is D.



I may be wrong because I haven't done property in awhile, but this is my take. A doesn't work because it's irrelevant in a race jurisdiction. B doesn't matter because PMM only gives you priority over earlier mortgages (and subsequent interests due to a prior after-acquired property agreement). C doesn't matter just because it doesn't matter, value of the loan secured by the mortgage doesn't matter afaik. D doesn't matter for the same reason A doesn't matter: it's a race jurisdiction. But I guess D is the "least shit" of the arguments because it at least tracks the common law first in time idea. Is that why D is supposed to be right?

P.S. if you didn't tell us D was right I'm pretty sure I would have had at least a 50/50 chance of getting it wrong because I'd be looking at all the answers and being like "they're all shit! none of them work!" and then just guessing.
Last edited by Puffman1234 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bass

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Bass » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:30 pm

MelaPela wrote:Can any property enthusiasts explain this question/answer to me?

A buyer purchased a residence and financed the purchase with a loan of $500,000 from a bank. As a condition of the loan, the buyer granted the bank a mortgage on the residence. Through an oversight by one of its employees, the bank failed to record the mortgage. Subsequently, the buyer, who ran a business, borrowed $75,000 from her uncle to enable the buyer to meet the financial needs of the business. Several months later, when the buyer had not repaid her uncle, the uncle demanded and the buyer granted the uncle a mortgage on the buyer’s residence after telling the uncle about the bank’s mortgage. The uncle promptly and properly recorded the mortgage.

The recording act of the applicable jurisdiction provides, “No conveyance or mortgage of real property shall be good against subsequent purchasers for value unless the same be first recorded according to law.”

Which of the following is the bank’s best argument that its mortgage has priority over the uncle’s mortgage?
A The uncle had notice of the bank’s mortgage before obtaining his mortgage.
B The bank’s mortgage is a purchase-money mortgage.
C The value of the bank’s mortgage is greater than the uncle’s mortgage.
D The bank obtained its mortgage from the buyer before the uncle obtained his mortgage.

Correct Answer is D.



I would have picked B myself, but then again the statute in the question talks about "subsequent purchaser for value". So since the uncle isn't a purchaser for value, perhaps the statute doesn't apply. In that case, first in time, first in right?

Which question is this?

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Bass

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Bass » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:34 pm

michelle3908 wrote:Hi, is anyone getting study tips from their state representative, particularly about condensing the outline/notes into smaller rule pages (3-4 pages) during the "review" tasks, etc.? I guess my state rep is wanting me to make my own "lean sheets", which makes sense, I guess you learn more by doing it yourself. I keep trying to condense down my notes, but it seems like I cannot reach 3-4 pages (unless I dropped to like 6pt font). If you are condensing and making rule sheets, are you just writing down the rules that you keep forgetting/missing?


I abandoned that idea myself as it took just too much time. Then I thought about just using the final review outlines at the back of the Themis books, but when I compared them to the actual outlines, they actually left out quite a bit of the material. It's just not possible to condense say a 90 page constitutional law syllabus into 4 pages if you want to get into any depth.

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whats an updog

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby whats an updog » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:37 pm

MelaPela wrote:Can any property enthusiasts explain this question/answer to me?

A buyer purchased a residence and financed the purchase with a loan of $500,000 from a bank. As a condition of the loan, the buyer granted the bank a mortgage on the residence. Through an oversight by one of its employees, the bank failed to record the mortgage. Subsequently, the buyer, who ran a business, borrowed $75,000 from her uncle to enable the buyer to meet the financial needs of the business. Several months later, when the buyer had not repaid her uncle, the uncle demanded and the buyer granted the uncle a mortgage on the buyer’s residence after telling the uncle about the bank’s mortgage. The uncle promptly and properly recorded the mortgage.

The recording act of the applicable jurisdiction provides, “No conveyance or mortgage of real property shall be good against subsequent purchasers for value unless the same be first recorded according to law.”

Which of the following is the bank’s best argument that its mortgage has priority over the uncle’s mortgage?
A The uncle had notice of the bank’s mortgage before obtaining his mortgage.
B The bank’s mortgage is a purchase-money mortgage.
C The value of the bank’s mortgage is greater than the uncle’s mortgage.
D The bank obtained its mortgage from the buyer before the uncle obtained his mortgage.

Correct Answer is D.


The only thing I can think of is that the uncle was not a purchaser for value because the mortgage was separate from the loan and there aren't enough facts to conclude that she needed to give him the mortgage. Therefore, because the recording act applies to neither of them, the common law first-in-time rule applies.

Could be wrong though, that is a tricky question.

edit: scooped

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby kcjlo10 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:25 pm

Question about the crim law outline: it says that defenses to felony murder are "(1) a valid defense to the underlying felony; (2) the felony was not distinct from or independent of the killing itself (e.g., aggravated battery); (3) death was not a foreseeable result or a natural and probable consequence of the felony (no proximate cause); or (4) death occurred after the commission of the felony and the ensuing flight from the scene of the crime."

Can anyone explain (2) for me?

Also, what's the difference between aggravated battery leading to death vs. involuntary manslaughter?

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MelaPela

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MelaPela » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:33 pm

whats an updog wrote:
MelaPela wrote:Can any property enthusiasts explain this question/answer to me?

A buyer purchased a residence and financed the purchase with a loan of $500,000 from a bank. As a condition of the loan, the buyer granted the bank a mortgage on the residence. Through an oversight by one of its employees, the bank failed to record the mortgage. Subsequently, the buyer, who ran a business, borrowed $75,000 from her uncle to enable the buyer to meet the financial needs of the business. Several months later, when the buyer had not repaid her uncle, the uncle demanded and the buyer granted the uncle a mortgage on the buyer’s residence after telling the uncle about the bank’s mortgage. The uncle promptly and properly recorded the mortgage.

The recording act of the applicable jurisdiction provides, “No conveyance or mortgage of real property shall be good against subsequent purchasers for value unless the same be first recorded according to law.”

Which of the following is the bank’s best argument that its mortgage has priority over the uncle’s mortgage?
A The uncle had notice of the bank’s mortgage before obtaining his mortgage.
B The bank’s mortgage is a purchase-money mortgage.
C The value of the bank’s mortgage is greater than the uncle’s mortgage.
D The bank obtained its mortgage from the buyer before the uncle obtained his mortgage.

Correct Answer is D.


The only thing I can think of is that the uncle was not a purchaser for value because the mortgage was separate from the loan and there aren't enough facts to conclude that she needed to give him the mortgage. Therefore, because the recording act applies to neither of them, the common law first-in-time rule applies.

Could be wrong though, that is a tricky question.

edit: scooped


That was the explanation given by Themis (should've posted that), but in presented in a more convoluted way. Your explanation is MUCH clearer than Themis's! Thank you!

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby champloo » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:11 am

i would have chosen B in like 3 seconds and been like "shiet that one's easy". fuck this test



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