Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

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changing_names

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby changing_names » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:22 pm

Puffman1234 and foundingfather, you're both fantastic, thank you so much for the thoughtful responses, both of your answers have definitely helped reformulate my approach to Evidence questions.
yeslekkkk I am going to give that video a watch now.
Thanks everyone for being so supportive!

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby bmmccb223 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:20 pm

So are the Themis MBE PQ's not real bar questions?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby changing_names » Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:25 pm

Themis rep told me they're a a mix. There are some real MBE questions and there are some which were written by their attorneys.

bmmccb223 wrote:So are the Themis MBE PQ's not real bar questions?

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby michelle3908 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:15 pm

Just doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to satisfy Themis...

Well back to studying! 29 days and change to go!

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:38 am

michelle3908 wrote:Just doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to satisfy Themis...

Well back to studying! 29 days and change to go!


I know. I just checked my week, and Themis has some very optimistic projections for certain days. One day, Themis expects me to do 29 lectures, plus a practice essay, and multiple other PQ sets. On another day, Themis expects me to do 20 lectures plus four 34-question PQ sets. All I have to say to Themis is:
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby star fox » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:52 am

Yeah they base everything off finishing 100 %

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:30 am

star fox wrote:Yeah they base everything off finishing 100 %


Yea. I wish I could set my goal to 85%. The gunner in me hates not getting work done that is assigned to me. The rational part of me isn't interested in spending more than 5-7 hours a day doing bar prep.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby bmmccb223 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:58 am

changing_names wrote:Themis rep told me they're a a mix. There are some real MBE questions and there are some which were written by their attorneys.

bmmccb223 wrote:So are the Themis MBE PQ's not real bar questions?


Interesting. I'd be curious to know if at least the MBE Practice Exams contain real bar questions.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Slytherpuff » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:56 am

I was under the impression that the simulated MBEs are all real questions other than Civ Pro, but I'd be interested to know if someone has heard differently!

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby LSSS » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:46 pm

It doesn't seem like Themis uses real MBE questions. I supplement the course with Emmanuel's Strategies & Tactics, which includes real MBE questions for every MBE topic but Civ Pro. I think the Themis questions are much harder and longer than the ones in the book.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby foundingfather » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:05 pm

LSSS wrote:It doesn't seem like Themis uses real MBE questions. I supplement the course with Emmanuel's Strategies & Tactics, which includes real MBE questions for every MBE topic but Civ Pro. I think the Themis questions are much harder and longer than the ones in the book.


how do you use both? I have the Emanuel's and want to start using it, but I feel like I'm always behind with Themis

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby robin600 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:33 pm

saywhat88 wrote:to crim pro experts,

i never took the course, but the themis lecture suggests that for automobile warrantless searches police can search if (1) arrestee is within reach of passenger compartment (or an area where there could be concealment of something that could endanger the cop) or (2) if the police have probably cause that the automobile contains contraband. it also states that the police can search the care after its been impounded.

my critical pass flashcards state that if a cop has probable cause, then the police can search the entire vehicle. does probable cause = contraband?

which is correct for mbe purposes?
thanks.


Crim Pro is my MF jam! Are your flashcards pre or post Arizona v. Gant? That could explain some of the difference since Gant changed things up a bit.
As for probable cause to search a car, the scope of the search depends on the scope of the PC. Aka - If the cop pulls you over for a traffic stop and then smells weed (because all cops just happen to smell weed! :roll: ) the cop will have PC to search in all compartments of the car where it would be reasonable to find evidence of the crime. If they had PC that you had a dead body in your car (maybe from some informant or something) then they wouldn't have PC to search the tiny little sunglasses compartment by your review mirror where you keep your rolled up Devil's lettuce.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby LSSS » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:01 pm

foundingfather wrote:
LSSS wrote:It doesn't seem like Themis uses real MBE questions. I supplement the course with Emmanuel's Strategies & Tactics, which includes real MBE questions for every MBE topic but Civ Pro. I think the Themis questions are much harder and longer than the ones in the book.


how do you use both? I have the Emanuel's and want to start using it, but I feel like I'm always behind with Themis


I am behind with Themis as well, but I always do some questions (10-15) from the book at night before I go to bed or when I take a lunch break. I intend to complete all of Themis's MBE PQ's.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MelaPela » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:02 pm

Themis discourages me more and more everyday.

I just did Practice Test #2 and scored a measly 46%. I guess I probably should've waited until I did more of the PQ sets, but at least now I know it's time to go back and review these subjects.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Puffman1234 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:22 pm

I've tried googling stuff about Themis and the MBE PQs and whether they're real, how representative they are, etc. But Themis is such a new company that it seems like if the discussion is more than 2 or so years old it's not representative of what Themis is like now. I do have a nagging feeling that the questions Themis asks are not necessarily representative of the real MBE in terms of proportion of questions from each section of the law. For example...it seems like 60%+ of Themis Property MBE PQs are mortgages...is that really how many of the real MBE questions are on mortgages?

But in Texas the MBE is 40%, 12 essays are 40%, Texas civ pro/crim pro/evidence is 10%, and the MPT is 10%. I still have so much state specific stuff to do that if I'm getting 75% avg on Themis' MBE PQs without needing to do any other practice I'm not sure how practical it is to try to increase the score at the expense of other areas. The MPT is worth the equivalent of 50 MBE questions, and each state essay is worth the equivalent of 17 MBE questions.

At this point I guess I'll just go with what Themis wants me to do for at least another couple of weeks and then maybe start deviating if I feel like I need to.

edit:

Check out this post (scroll down to the big post) from just a few days ago by a guy who says he talked to a higher up at Themis about their distribution of MBE questions, which are supposedly 40/60 Themis/real. He says the real MBE questions don't show up until level 5+ of the PQs: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=231430&start=25

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby star fox » Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:52 pm

Idk just trust the process.

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Slytherpuff

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Slytherpuff » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:21 pm

MelaPela wrote:Themis discourages me more and more everyday.

I just did Practice Test #2 and scored a measly 46%. I guess I probably should've waited until I did more of the PQ sets, but at least now I know it's time to go back and review these subjects.

Ugh I'm so sorry to hear that! Yeah, I definitely need to do a bunch more PQ sets on those subjects before I'm ready to tackle the practice exam.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MelaPela » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:27 pm

Slytherpuff wrote:
MelaPela wrote:Themis discourages me more and more everyday.

I just did Practice Test #2 and scored a measly 46%. I guess I probably should've waited until I did more of the PQ sets, but at least now I know it's time to go back and review these subjects.

Ugh I'm so sorry to hear that! Yeah, I definitely need to do a bunch more PQ sets on those subjects before I'm ready to tackle the practice exam.


Definitely get through at least 4- 5 of each before doing the exam! I only did 3 and really struggled with some of the questions. Doesn't help that I didn't take Evidence & Crim Pro in law school.

For the first test I did 6 for each of Contracts/Prop/Torts and felt much better going in.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby villanovajew » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:36 pm

LSSS wrote:It doesn't seem like Themis uses real MBE questions. I supplement the course with Emmanuel's Strategies & Tactics, which includes real MBE questions for every MBE topic but Civ Pro. I think the Themis questions are much harder and longer than the ones in the book.


I'm doing the same thing-- just got my Strategies & Tactics book yesterday. I did half of the Con Law questions in it and got 72% correct, while my Themis Con Law percent is only at 65%. I definitely think Themis is harder and tests a lot more nuances than the real NCBE MBE questions.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:56 pm

MelaPela wrote:Themis discourages me more and more everyday.

I just did Practice Test #2 and scored a measly 46%. I guess I probably should've waited until I did more of the PQ sets, but at least now I know it's time to go back and review these subjects.


I wouldn't sweat it. You have a lot of time to drill PQs. What I've found has made it easier for me is figuring out the tricks to how they ask questions. It allows me to get questions right even when I don't know the answers because I can eliminate 2 or 3 of the answers.

Basically, you'll get comfortable with the tricks to it and see your score increase significantly. Give it a time. You'll do great! :D

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby just_me » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:18 pm

star fox wrote:Idk just trust the process.


In case it's helpful to anyone, just dropping in to say that this is exactly what I did last year. I was a foreigner who didn't know any better, so I pretty much had no other choice but to put my faith 100% in Themis. I tried to follow their schedule (I was often a little bit behind what they wanted, but I finished something like around 85% of the course eventually - towards the last few days, it's basically a ton of review tasks). I didn't supplement the program with any other resources or questions from elsewhere.

Anyway, I have no idea whether Themis uses real past questions or what, but in the exam, I felt like the questions were comparable in terms of length and style to the ones Themis gave me. There was one question about a civ pro time limit that basically relied on candidates either knowing the correct number of days for something or not knowing it, and Themis definitely did not provide that information, so I didn't know it - but that's the only instance I can recall like that, where black letter law simply hadn't been covered. Equally, though, I remember another question about the Fair Housing Act that, according to people around me, hadn't been covered at all in the BarBri course but was covered in the Themis one, so I think in terms of very minor points that could come up on the exam, it probably all comes out in the wash.

I definitely had days where i felt overwhelmed and dejected, and sometimes within the course of a single day could go from "this is actually manageable, things are going fine" to 'i'm definitely going to fail, this is a nightmare" multiple times. Genuinely. To the extent possible, try to just accept that you're going to have those feelings - remind yourself that everyone has them, and that you're doing all the stuff that has, according to Themis stats, helped most people before you pass.

Hope this might be helpful to someone having a bad day! Good luck :)

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby changing_names » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:38 pm

just_me wrote:
star fox wrote:Idk just trust the process.


In case it's helpful to anyone, just dropping in to say that this is exactly what I did last year. I was a foreigner who didn't know any better, so I pretty much had no other choice but to put my faith 100% in Themis. I tried to follow their schedule (I was often a little bit behind what they wanted, but I finished something like around 85% of the course eventually - towards the last few days, it's basically a ton of review tasks). I didn't supplement the program with any other resources or questions from elsewhere.

Anyway, I have no idea whether Themis uses real past questions or what, but in the exam, I felt like the questions were comparable in terms of length and style to the ones Themis gave me. There was one question about a civ pro time limit that basically relied on candidates either knowing the correct number of days for something or not knowing it, and Themis definitely did not provide that information, so I didn't know it - but that's the only instance I can recall like that, where black letter law simply hadn't been covered. Equally, though, I remember another question about the Fair Housing Act that, according to people around me, hadn't been covered at all in the BarBri course but was covered in the Themis one, so I think in terms of very minor points that could come up on the exam, it probably all comes out in the wash.

I definitely had days where i felt overwhelmed and dejected, and sometimes within the course of a single day could go from "this is actually manageable, things are going fine" to 'i'm definitely going to fail, this is a nightmare" multiple times. Genuinely. To the extent possible, try to just accept that you're going to have those feelings - remind yourself that everyone has them, and that you're doing all the stuff that has, according to Themis stats, helped most people before you pass.

Hope this might be helpful to someone having a bad day! Good luck :)


This "this is actually manageable, things are going fine" to 'i'm definitely going to fail, this is a nightmare." Most of my days feel like that now (as of a week ago or so. I will do one PQ and it will go great then I'll get an essay that I have no idea where to start with and I'll feel way down in the hole. My emotions these days swing from one extreme to the next. :(

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby michelle3908 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:33 pm

villanovajew wrote:
LSSS wrote:It doesn't seem like Themis uses real MBE questions. I supplement the course with Emmanuel's Strategies & Tactics, which includes real MBE questions for every MBE topic but Civ Pro. I think the Themis questions are much harder and longer than the ones in the book.


I'm doing the same thing-- just got my Strategies & Tactics book yesterday. I did half of the Con Law questions in it and got 72% correct, while my Themis Con Law percent is only at 65%. I definitely think Themis is harder and tests a lot more nuances than the real NCBE MBE questions.


Think I'm ordering this book, since its real questions it may give me a better idea of what to expect.

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby mds79 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:44 pm

robin600 wrote:
saywhat88 wrote:to crim pro experts,

i never took the course, but the themis lecture suggests that for automobile warrantless searches police can search if (1) arrestee is within reach of passenger compartment (or an area where there could be concealment of something that could endanger the cop) or (2) if the police have probably cause that the automobile contains contraband. it also states that the police can search the care after its been impounded.

my critical pass flashcards state that if a cop has probable cause, then the police can search the entire vehicle. does probable cause = contraband?

which is correct for mbe purposes?
thanks.


Crim Pro is my MF jam! Are your flashcards pre or post Arizona v. Gant? That could explain some of the difference since Gant changed things up a bit.
As for probable cause to search a car, the scope of the search depends on the scope of the PC. Aka - If the cop pulls you over for a traffic stop and then smells weed (because all cops just happen to smell weed! :roll: ) the cop will have PC to search in all compartments of the car where it would be reasonable to find evidence of the crime. If they had PC that you had a dead body in your car (maybe from some informant or something) then they wouldn't have PC to search the tiny little sunglasses compartment by your review mirror where you keep your rolled up Devil's lettuce.


This is correct. I don't specifically remember this from the lecture when I took Themis last year, but I think the flashcards are basically saying the same thing as the lecture, just shorter. A warrantless search always has to relate to the PC of the suspected crime, but the officer safety search is an exception.

Here's a sad but useful tip for crim pro: 9 times out of 10, the correct answer is the one that screws the defendant the hardest and benefits the police the most. :roll:

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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby MelaPela » Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:35 am

lavarman84 wrote:
MelaPela wrote:Themis discourages me more and more everyday.

I just did Practice Test #2 and scored a measly 46%. I guess I probably should've waited until I did more of the PQ sets, but at least now I know it's time to go back and review these subjects.


I wouldn't sweat it. You have a lot of time to drill PQs. What I've found has made it easier for me is figuring out the tricks to how they ask questions. It allows me to get questions right even when I don't know the answers because I can eliminate 2 or 3 of the answers.

Basically, you'll get comfortable with the tricks to it and see your score increase significantly. Give it a time. You'll do great! :D


Thank you for making me feel better!! :D



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