Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

uceoledinbdnrn
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby uceoledinbdnrn » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:25 pm

I guess another way to think of it is to ask yourself if it's possible to reach a verdict without knowing anything about a person's character if both parties stipulate as to everything else.

So, like, imagine there's a video of someone stealing. It wouldn't matter whether or not they're a good person- all the elements are visible in that video.

On the other hand, say there's a video of the State college president signing Sandusky's contract. That wouldn't be enough to show he was criminally negligent in hiring him- you'd still need to prove that Sandusky was someone who couldn't be trusted around children.

gotsomequestions
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby gotsomequestions » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Just did Criminal Procedure Essay 2275.

The model answer had the defendant committing both False Imprisonment and Kidnapping.

Wouldn't the false imprisonment merge into the kidnapping?

Blackberie
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Blackberie » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:15 pm

How are you guys doing on the practice questions? I find Themis questions to be much harder than Adaptibar. Themis questions are poorly worded and I find that they might intentionally do it that way to help us learn the law better. I get way more questions right on Adaptibar, and I bombed the practice exam with a 47%. Do I make sense? If I don't then I'm going to be even more nervous than I am now.

bmmccb223
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby bmmccb223 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:20 pm

gotsomequestions wrote:Just did Criminal Procedure Essay 2275.

The model answer had the defendant committing both False Imprisonment and Kidnapping.

Wouldn't the false imprisonment merge into the kidnapping?


Yes, false imprisonment is a lesser included offense. Are you sure that the two charges relate to the same event or to a crime against the same victim?

bmmccb223
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby bmmccb223 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:44 pm

Blackberie wrote:How are you guys doing on the practice questions? I find Themis questions to be much harder than Adaptibar. Themis questions are poorly worded and I find that they might intentionally do it that way to help us learn the law better. I get way more questions right on Adaptibar, and I bombed the practice exam with a 47%. Do I make sense? If I don't then I'm going to be even more nervous than I am now.


I just finished the mixed sets and was scoring in the 68-73% on the last 10 sets or so. I got a 73% on the 200 question practice test. Adaptibar has real MBE questions (while Themis has a mix of real/adapted), so if you are doing well on Adaptibar I wouldn't worry about it.

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twenty
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:45 pm

From what I understand, 100% of the adaptibar questions are actual former MBE questions, and <100% of the Themis MBE practice questions (I've seen estimates of between 50% to 80%) are from actual MBEs. I suspect Themis does this in part to give people more opportunity to practice certain types of questions that appear so infrequently on the MBE that there simply isn't enough existing content for them.

I think it's also worth noting that even the %correct on practice sets isn't entirely indicative of where you're actually at, with regards to Themis. Take, for instance, constitution MBE PQ set 4. Only 11 of the 34 questions were "Category 4 - Individual Rights" questions, although NCBE indicates that this section will be 1/2 of the questions asked on the actual. Let's say you got 50% correct, for the sake of using easy numbers, but on the MBE PQ set, you got all the individual rights questions wrong because you're really bad at these kinds of questions. That's scary, because on the actual, you'll have way more individual rights questions than you did in this set. Conversely, if your 50% correct came from all the 1/3rd individual rights questions, + a few other I, II, and III questions, you're in really good shape and might actually be looking at 70%+ on the actual. Same goes for a topic like Torts. If your MBE PQ set has less than 50% of the questions in Negligence, you should be either excited or afraid based on the percentage of those questions you got right/wrong.

RLowry23
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby RLowry23 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:01 pm

twenty wrote:From what I understand, 100% of the adaptibar questions are actual former MBE questions, and <100% of the Themis MBE practice questions (I've seen estimates of between 50% to 80%) are from actual MBEs. I suspect Themis does this in part to give people more opportunity to practice certain types of questions that appear so infrequently on the MBE that there simply isn't enough existing content for them.

I think it's also worth noting that even the %correct on practice sets isn't entirely indicative of where you're actually at, with regards to Themis. Take, for instance, constitution MBE PQ set 4. Only 11 of the 34 questions were "Category 4 - Individual Rights" questions, although NCBE indicates that this section will be 1/2 of the questions asked on the actual. Let's say you got 50% correct, for the sake of using easy numbers, but on the MBE PQ set, you got all the individual rights questions wrong because you're really bad at these kinds of questions. That's scary, because on the actual, you'll have way more individual rights questions than you did in this set. Conversely, if your 50% correct came from all the 1/3rd individual rights questions, + a few other I, II, and III questions, you're in really good shape and might actually be looking at 70%+ on the actual. Same goes for a topic like Torts. If your MBE PQ set has less than 50% of the questions in Negligence, you should be either excited or afraid based on the percentage of those questions you got right/wrong.


This is super insightful... could you link us to where you got that info?

ernie
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby ernie » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:45 pm

More great work from the crack team at Themis

Image

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cal.trask
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby cal.trask » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:53 pm

ernie wrote:More great work from the crack team at Themis

[img]

am i missing something here?

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twenty
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:54 pm

RLowry23 wrote:
twenty wrote:From what I understand, 100% of the adaptibar questions are actual former MBE questions, and <100% of the Themis MBE practice questions (I've seen estimates of between 50% to 80%) are from actual MBEs. I suspect Themis does this in part to give people more opportunity to practice certain types of questions that appear so infrequently on the MBE that there simply isn't enough existing content for them.

I think it's also worth noting that even the %correct on practice sets isn't entirely indicative of where you're actually at, with regards to Themis. Take, for instance, constitution MBE PQ set 4. Only 11 of the 34 questions were "Category 4 - Individual Rights" questions, although NCBE indicates that this section will be 1/2 of the questions asked on the actual. Let's say you got 50% correct, for the sake of using easy numbers, but on the MBE PQ set, you got all the individual rights questions wrong because you're really bad at these kinds of questions. That's scary, because on the actual, you'll have way more individual rights questions than you did in this set. Conversely, if your 50% correct came from all the 1/3rd individual rights questions, + a few other I, II, and III questions, you're in really good shape and might actually be looking at 70%+ on the actual. Same goes for a topic like Torts. If your MBE PQ set has less than 50% of the questions in Negligence, you should be either excited or afraid based on the percentage of those questions you got right/wrong.


This is super insightful... could you link us to where you got that info?


Yeah, it's on the NCBE website as an outline: http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2 ... ment%2F201

At the top of each category, it tells you what percentage of the questions come from what categories.

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star fox
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby star fox » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:25 pm

But over the course of the 1800 questions or whatever you answer it seems like it balances out pretty well frequency wise in each topic. Like I've had 117/241 questions in Torts be about negligence and 115/244 in Constitutional Law be about individual rights. Very close to 50 %. Overall % is messed up by over-frequency of Crim Law and Crim Pro in the Mixed Set problems though. They should be half the others since they combine to be 25 questions on the MBE but they are each much more than that.

Hahalollawl
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Hahalollawl » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:48 pm

Why couldn't the Supreme Court have just used the same language for intermediate scrutiny in commercial speech and equal protection...

redsox550
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:13 am

so whats the deal with themis's graded essays? is it even possible to score 50 and above? are they accurate scores?

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twenty
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby twenty » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:48 am

redsox550 wrote:so whats the deal with themis's graded essays? is it even possible to score 50 and above? are they accurate scores?


I've been pretty consistently scoring 60-65, but I think it's entirely up to the graders. Are you IRACing properly? Are you spotting all/almost all the issues?

Hahalollawl
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Hahalollawl » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:01 am

So "matter of public concern" in the context of public employees and the press is a pretty inclusive standard right? Like, most things that they would want to speak about are probably considered matters of public concern right?

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cal.trask
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby cal.trask » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:02 am

redsox550 wrote:so whats the deal with themis's graded essays? is it even possible to score 50 and above? are they accurate scores?

Might depend on your state. I think the average for my stage has consistently been between 50-60

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cal.trask
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby cal.trask » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:03 am

Hahalollawl wrote:So "matter of public concern" in the context of public employees and the press is a pretty inclusive standard right? Like, most things that they would want to speak about are probably considered matters of public concern right?

It's a pretty big catch-all that a court will now broadly interpret in favor of the declarant unless it's something pretty egregious (I.e. some rando's medical records)

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Miss-Bubbled
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Miss-Bubbled » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:12 am

Hey guys. I'm very late to this thread. Just hoping you all could help clarify something. What is the difference between joinder and impleader? Is impleader just a type of joinder with special rules relating to service of process and supplemental jurisdiction?

Hahalollawl
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Hahalollawl » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:38 am

Miss-Bubbled wrote:Hey guys. I'm very late to this thread. Just hoping you all could help clarify something. What is the difference between joinder and impleader? Is impleader just a type of joinder with special rules relating to service of process and supplemental jurisdiction?


I'm not entirely certain, but I think of joinder and impleader as being different things. My impression is that impleader is used for the specific situation when a defendant (maybe plaintiff if there's a counterclaim?) is trying to get someone else to indemnify the party for any liability if they lose. On the other hand, I think of joinder as when someone just wants to invite another party to the litigation for whatever reason. And then, depending on whether it's a necessary party it's compulsory or permissive, and if it's compulsory and the party is indispensable but can't be joined then the judge may dismiss the case. I'm not certain though, so maybe someone else can shed light on this.

Also, I just thought of something. If you have 2 defendants and one of them files a cross-claim against the other, can the 2nd defendant implead another party?

2014applicant
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby 2014applicant » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:25 am

When should we and should we not talk about relevance when answering Evidence question? On the Evidence/Crimes essay, I spent a bit of time talking about whether the defendant crying and the defendant saying that she has some valuable information were actually relevant, but maybe I was off-base. The model answer didn't say anything about relevance.

redsox550
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby redsox550 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:16 am

twenty wrote:
redsox550 wrote:so whats the deal with themis's graded essays? is it even possible to score 50 and above? are they accurate scores?


I've been pretty consistently scoring 60-65, but I think it's entirely up to the graders. Are you IRACing properly? Are you spotting all/almost all the issues?


I'm taking Florida. I get complemented on my IRAC format, and have pretty similar answers to sample but am at best getting high 40's.

Anyone else have any experience with FL?

gotsomequestions
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby gotsomequestions » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:48 am

My IL grader is brutal. I nearly wrote an identical essay to the model evidence answer and still only got 5/6 on every category. Been pretty average on the rest of the essays.

Fireworks2016
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Fireworks2016 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:45 pm

What are people's perception of Practice Exam 4? I scored 77%, but I also felt like there were still a lot of extremely difficult/gotcha questions sprinkled throughout.

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robin600
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby robin600 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:52 pm

redsox550 wrote:
twenty wrote:
redsox550 wrote:so whats the deal with themis's graded essays? is it even possible to score 50 and above? are they accurate scores?


I've been pretty consistently scoring 60-65, but I think it's entirely up to the graders. Are you IRACing properly? Are you spotting all/almost all the issues?


I'm taking Florida. I get complemented on my IRAC format, and have pretty similar answers to sample but am at best getting high 40's.

Anyone else have any experience with FL?

My grader is a turd and constantly gives me scores in the high 30s - low 40s - also in FL. He frequently says keep up the good work and the format is great and have similar answers as well. I emailed the DM and he told me that they grade very harsh on purpose. Not very pleased w/ Themis and essay grading. I liked my Kaplan grader better when I took in another jurisdiction.

I'm also freaking the fuck out now thinking i will fail.

Blackberie
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Re: Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2017

Postby Blackberie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:37 pm

Anyone have any solid tips for improving MBE scores? A different approach to questions? I've been trying to read the call before anything. Are you guys following what the MBE lecturers said with how to approach for each subject?




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