Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

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Bass

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Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby Bass » Wed May 24, 2017 8:06 am

I'm using Themis. Have read through and started memorisation of rules.

My adaptibar performance is as below:

Civil Procedure (16 of 35) 45%
Constitutional Law (32 of 41) 78%
Contracts (93 of 121) 76%
Criminal Law (33 of 50) 66%
Evidence (53 of 70) 75%
Real Property (15 of 20) 75%
Torts (30 of 40) 75%

I thought I was doing okay but Civ Pro is just unmanageable. The outlines are ridiculously long and detailed...

This is very worrying and disheartening! :?

Nebby

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby Nebby » Wed May 24, 2017 8:24 am

It's literally the first week. Civ Pro was my worst bar subject and I didn't see improvement until I had done 200ish questions.

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ndbigdave

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby ndbigdave » Wed May 24, 2017 9:09 am

Bass wrote:I'm using Themis. Have read through and started memorisation of rules.

My adaptibar performance is as below:

Civil Procedure (16 of 35) 45%
Constitutional Law (32 of 41) 78%
Contracts (93 of 121) 76%
Criminal Law (33 of 50) 66%
Evidence (53 of 70) 75%
Real Property (15 of 20) 75%
Torts (30 of 40) 75%

I thought I was doing okay but Civ Pro is just unmanageable. The outlines are ridiculously long and detailed...

This is very worrying and disheartening! :?


I will echo the first comment - you are only 35 questions in thus far and it is the first week (or so depending on when you started) with PLENTY of time to read outlines, listen to lectures, perhaps look at flashcards...and do more questions with explanations.

I am going through the almost identical situation (I have completed 450 total questions thus far) and Civ Pro is significantly lower than every other subject (to your credit you are scoring higher in the other 6 than I am....I am in the low to upper 60%s thus far, with Civ Pro being in mid 40s so it is definitely an outlier).

From my perspective, as someone who has completed two bars thus far (passing Michigan J2015 and failing F2017 in Illinois with a 141 and a 139 respectively on the MBE with very, very limited practice each time around) I dont feel the Adaptibar questions on Civ pro are particularly good and are wildly nuanced (however I also feel like I am learning more and more Civ Pro by getting them wrong and reading explanations...this coming from someone who is a former judicial clerk who 4.0'd Civ Pro in law school).

Your other scores, early on, are excellent, if you stay with the program, micro-target your weaknesses you will be WELL on your way to an excellent score come July (which is still 2 months away!)

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Bass

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby Bass » Wed May 24, 2017 9:44 am

Thanks for the kind encouragement. I actually started studying two months ago while working full time. I'll be taking study leave off work in June and July to focus full time though. I'm foreign educated...hence I need whatever headstart I can get. 8)

ndbigdave wrote:
From my perspective, as someone who has completed two bars thus far (passing Michigan J2015 and failing F2017 in Illinois with a 141 and a 139 respectively on the MBE with very, very limited practice each time around) I dont feel the Adaptibar questions on Civ pro are particularly good and are wildly nuanced (however I also feel like I am learning more and more Civ Pro by getting them wrong and reading explanations...this coming from someone who is a former judicial clerk who 4.0'd Civ Pro in law school).


I was under the impression that Adaptibar uses actual past MBE questions though? Wouldn't that make Adaptibar questions the perfect simulation for actual exam day questions?

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ndbigdave

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby ndbigdave » Wed May 24, 2017 9:48 am

Bass wrote:Thanks for the kind encouragement. I actually started studying two months ago while working full time. I'll be taking study leave off work in June and July to focus full time though. I'm foreign educated...hence I need whatever headstart I can get. 8)

ndbigdave wrote:
From my perspective, as someone who has completed two bars thus far (passing Michigan J2015 and failing F2017 in Illinois with a 141 and a 139 respectively on the MBE with very, very limited practice each time around) I dont feel the Adaptibar questions on Civ pro are particularly good and are wildly nuanced (however I also feel like I am learning more and more Civ Pro by getting them wrong and reading explanations...this coming from someone who is a former judicial clerk who 4.0'd Civ Pro in law school).


I was under the impression that Adaptibar uses actual past MBE questions though? Wouldn't that make Adaptibar questions the perfect simulation for actual exam day questions?


There are no Civ Pro questions made available yet from the NCBE (though I believe there may be 10 sample questions available) so via Adaptibar they are SIMULATED questions. I dont think they are particularly good, however like I said, you WILL learn a depth of Civ Pro because they hit on a ton of nuances throughout all the rules, timing of motions and appeals rather than just SMJ and PJ.

For all the other subjects (other than some real property questions) they are REAL, officially licensed and formally used questions.

Nebby

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby Nebby » Wed May 24, 2017 9:54 am

Yeah, because there are no real CivPro MBE questions available, all of them are simulations. I did Themis, and Themis tested absolutely every single possible nuance of CivPro and therefore it required retention of a vast array of CivPro principles. Most of which I did not come across on test day.

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ndbigdave

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby ndbigdave » Wed May 24, 2017 9:58 am

Nebby wrote:Yeah, because there are no real CivPro MBE questions available, all of them are simulations. I did Themis, and Themis tested absolutely every single possible nuance of CivPro and therefore it required retention of a vast array of CivPro principles. Most of which I did not come across on test day.


+1

From what I have heard the Emmanuel's Strategies and Tactics have some solid Civ Pro questions along with excellent explanations. I have rented the 6th edition from Barnes and Noble (rather than spending $80) and will be utilizing that in conjunction with Adaptibar.

pointmass

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby pointmass » Wed May 24, 2017 10:15 am

ndbigdave wrote:
Nebby wrote:Yeah, because there are no real CivPro MBE questions available, all of them are simulations. I did Themis, and Themis tested absolutely every single possible nuance of CivPro and therefore it required retention of a vast array of CivPro principles. Most of which I did not come across on test day.


+1

From what I have heard the Emmanuel's Strategies and Tactics have some solid Civ Pro questions along with excellent explanations. I have rented the 6th edition from Barnes and Noble (rather than spending $80) and will be utilizing that in conjunction with Adaptibar.


Do you think it is worth getting both Emmanuel and Adaptibar? Which one has better explanations?

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ndbigdave

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby ndbigdave » Wed May 24, 2017 10:25 am

pointmass wrote:
ndbigdave wrote:
Nebby wrote:Yeah, because there are no real CivPro MBE questions available, all of them are simulations. I did Themis, and Themis tested absolutely every single possible nuance of CivPro and therefore it required retention of a vast array of CivPro principles. Most of which I did not come across on test day.


+1

From what I have heard the Emmanuel's Strategies and Tactics have some solid Civ Pro questions along with excellent explanations. I have rented the 6th edition from Barnes and Noble (rather than spending $80) and will be utilizing that in conjunction with Adaptibar.


Do you think it is worth getting both Emmanuel and Adaptibar? Which one has better explanations?


I think because you can get the Strategy and Tactics book for like $30 (rental at B&N) its worth getting both. There will be a lot of overlap with the questions for all but Civ Pro, but I love the strategies and tactics along with the reasonable outlines for each subject.

Adaptibar is available online and via apps on iPhone and Android (so SUPER convenient) but it also tracks your success rate not just "by subject" but also into subtopics so that you really know you strength/weaknesses and you can micro-target weaknesses to gain improvement. Could you track this for yourself? Sure, but what a waste of time when a program can do it for you.

So my answer is - both. Which has better overall explanations? Id say the Emmanuel book, but it has fewer questions and you would have to track your own success.

LockBox

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Re: Is it normal...to struggle for civil procedure?

Postby LockBox » Wed May 24, 2017 2:16 pm

Bass wrote:I'm using Themis. Have read through and started memorisation of rules.

My adaptibar performance is as below:

Civil Procedure (16 of 35) 45%
Constitutional Law (32 of 41) 78%
Contracts (93 of 121) 76%
Criminal Law (33 of 50) 66%
Evidence (53 of 70) 75%
Real Property (15 of 20) 75%
Torts (30 of 40) 75%

I thought I was doing okay but Civ Pro is just unmanageable. The outlines are ridiculously long and detailed...

This is very worrying and disheartening! :?


I would feel the same way. Good news is you have time to improve. My recommendation is to understand why you are getting each answer right/wrong. Then, bolster your understanding of Civ Pro rules by working (and reworking) civ pro essay questions.



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