July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:19 am

lovesthelaw wrote:Hi everyone,

Aren't there certain essay topics that go together like pairs? Like, after the morning essays, we should know exactly what the afternoon essays are? Could anyone explain how the pairing works?

Thanks!


Yes, all the essays come in pairs: UCC; Wills/Estates; Trusts/Guardianship/DTPA; Property; Family Law; and Business Organizations (not in that order though). So if question 1 is UCC-9, question 2 will either be UCC-2 or UCC-3 (or a combo). If question 5 is Property, question 6 will also be Property (and one of them is probably O&G). If you get UCC, Property and Family in the morning you'll get the other three pairs in the afternoon.

eta: For UCC and Trusts/Guardianship (where one topic is likely not going to be tested), here's the breakdown of what they've chosen to test in the past:

Image

And here are past MPT assignments:

Image

jennifer_42
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby jennifer_42 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:25 am

Are there commercial flashcards you would recommend for the Texas essay subjects? I'm not finding the Themis lectures that helpful. I'm finding a few on Google, but I have no idea of their quality.

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:27 am

jennifer_42 wrote:Are there commercial flashcards you would recommend for the Texas essay subjects? I'm not finding the Themis lectures that helpful. I'm finding a few on Google, but I have no idea of their quality.


The ones you find on google for DTPA are pretty good. Recycling an old post:

BVest wrote:BANKRUPTCY:
Know that there's an automatic stay. Know that a creditor can get the stay lifted by the bankruptcy court. Basically everything the BLE wants you to know about the automatic stay and getting it lifted is summarized here.


For DTPA, I relied mainly on these flash cards some prior fellow traveler produced.

lovesthelaw
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby lovesthelaw » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:22 pm

BVest wrote:
lovesthelaw wrote:Hi everyone,

Aren't there certain essay topics that go together like pairs? Like, after the morning essays, we should know exactly what the afternoon essays are? Could anyone explain how the pairing works?

Thanks!


Yes, all the essays come in pairs: UCC; Wills/Estates; Trusts/Guardianship/DTPA; Property; Family Law; and Business Organizations (not in that order though). So if question 1 is UCC-9, question 2 will either be UCC-2 or UCC-3 (or a combo). If question 5 is Property, question 6 will also be Property (and one of them is probably O&G). If you get UCC, Property and Family in the morning you'll get the other three pairs in the afternoon.

eta: For UCC and Trusts/Guardianship (where one topic is likely not going to be tested), here's the breakdown of what they've chosen to test in the past:

So sorry, but you could explain that a little differently? I am not really following!

lovesthelaw
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby lovesthelaw » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:23 pm

Are the pairs only for UCC stuff, then? Totally did not follow your answer that well - I'm sorry!! Haha I thought it was a more straight-forward thing than that. Thank you for your help!!

czechos37
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby czechos37 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:38 pm

lovesthelaw wrote:Are the pairs only for UCC stuff, then? Totally did not follow your answer that well - I'm sorry!! Haha I thought it was a more straight-forward thing than that. Thank you for your help!!


I've pulled all of the old essays going back to 2009 from the BLE website. Every topic that tests 2 questions (Real Property (including oil and gas), Business Associations, Wills and Admin. of Estates, UCC, and Family Law) tests the subject back to back. So if question 1 is a family law question, question 2 will also be a family law question. It's like that for every subject that tests 2 questions and then Consumer Rights and the Trusts/Guardianship questions usually come up one right after the other, as well. Hope that helps to clear it up.

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:36 pm

lovesthelaw wrote:Are the pairs only for UCC stuff, then? Totally did not follow your answer that well - I'm sorry!! Haha I thought it was a more straight-forward thing than that. Thank you for your help!!


Sorry... here's my answer more coherently:
BVest wrote:Yes, all the essays all come in pairs:

  • UCC pair [generally one of UCC-3 and one of UCC-9, but sometimes UCC-2 will get tested either instead of or in addition to UCC-3; see the breakdown above for how often they test each of the UCCs]
  • Wills/Estates pair [Generally one wills question and one estate administration question, but anything within the subjects is fair game]
  • Trusts-Guardianship/DTPA pair [Always one Consumer Law (usually DTPA or DTPA +) and one question that will be either trusts or guardianship; see the exam-by-exam breakdown above for how often they test trusts vs guardianships]
  • Property pair [Usually one O&G and one general property, but it could be both general property, or theoretically could be both O&G]
  • Family Law pair [Usually one about marital property and one about SAPCR/custody/support, but again, it could be anything within family law]
  • Business Organizations pair [usually one formation question and one dissolution/duties question, but could be anything within biz-org law]


The pairings above always stick together. Questions 1&2 are a pair; questions 3&4 are a pair; etc. So if question 1 is UCC-9, question 2 will either be UCC-2 or UCC-3 (or a combo). If question 5 is Property, question 6 will also be Property.

What pairs you get in the morning will tell you what pairs are left for the afternoon. If you get UCC, Property and Family in the morning you'll get the other three pairs in the afternoon.

lovesthelaw
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby lovesthelaw » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:45 pm

BVest wrote:
lovesthelaw wrote:Are the pairs only for UCC stuff, then? Totally did not follow your answer that well - I'm sorry!! Haha I thought it was a more straight-forward thing than that. Thank you for your help!!


Sorry... here's my answer more coherently:
BVest wrote:Yes, all the essays all come in pairs:

  • UCC pair [generally one of UCC-3 and one of UCC-9, but sometimes UCC-2 will get tested either instead of or in addition to UCC-3; see the breakdown above for how often they test each of the UCCs]
  • Wills/Estates pair [Generally one wills question and one estate administration question, but anything within the subjects is fair game]
  • Trusts-Guardianship/DTPA pair [Always one Consumer Law (usually DTPA or DTPA +) and one question that will be either trusts or guardianship; see the exam-by-exam breakdown above for how often they test trusts vs guardianships]
  • Property pair [Usually one O&G and one general property, but it could be both general property, or theoretically could be both O&G]
  • Family Law pair [Usually one about marital property and one about SAPCR/custody/support, but again, it could be anything within family law]
  • Business Organizations pair [usually one formation question and one dissolution/duties question, but could be anything within biz-org law]


The pairings above always stick together. Questions 1&2 are a pair; questions 3&4 are a pair; etc. So if question 1 is UCC-9, question 2 will either be UCC-2 or UCC-3 (or a combo). If question 5 is Property, question 6 will also be Property.

What pairs you get in the morning will tell you what pairs are left for the afternoon. If you get UCC, Property and Family in the morning you'll get the other three pairs in the afternoon.


Got it - thank you so much for explaining that (twice)!! I really appreciate it!

Tiredbuthappyitsover
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Tiredbuthappyitsover » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:44 pm

np1211 wrote:
Tiredbuthappyitsover wrote:
np1211 wrote:Hi Just wondering what is everyone's strategy studying for the Essay portion of the exam? I am debating if i should even spend 3 hours on lectures for things like community property and federal income tax. Also how many hours are you guys studying in a day? I am very nervous as i have an infant who just started teething and i feel like i am not able to spend as much time studying as i would like. :( .


DO TONS OF OLD PRACTICE QUESTIONS-especially recent ones. That way, you learn the law and you practice writing essays. Don't worry if you struggle at first...the more you do in a given subject the better you will get!



Hey thanks! ya that is the goal but right now just trying to get through the lectures, which at this point i am not sure if its worth it or just go straight to practice exams and learn the rules through the exams. :roll:


In my humble opinion....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! The lectures weren't as useful for me, personally, as I had hoped they would be.

Puffman1234
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Puffman1234 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:49 pm

Does anyone have any idea to what extent we're supposed to limit our answers to the subject we can tell is being tested?

What I mean is, say you can tell it's meant to be a problem about Corporations, but you also see like...just general contract issues. You should just ignore the contracts stuff, right?

This is probably something I can at least get a feel for on my own over the next couple of weeks as I do more practice essays and see what they're like but I thought I'd ask here too.

Actually, now that I think about it, there's been a fair amount of overlap in the subjects in any case. Like family law + community property, and wills + community property.

Also BVest--not that I doubt you, and you seem to have data to back up your statements (like that if Q1 is UCC, Q2 will be UCC), but are the statements based on the data or is the data reflecting some sort of official policy statement the BLE has made?

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:00 pm

Answer the call of the question. No more. No less. This is not a law school exam. You won't get points for unnecessary erudition.

np1211
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby np1211 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:48 am

Tiredbuthappyitsover wrote:
np1211 wrote:
Tiredbuthappyitsover wrote:
np1211 wrote:Hi Just wondering what is everyone's strategy studying for the Essay portion of the exam? I am debating if i should even spend 3 hours on lectures for things like community property and federal income tax. Also how many hours are you guys studying in a day? I am very nervous as i have an infant who just started teething and i feel like i am not able to spend as much time studying as i would like. :( .


DO TONS OF OLD PRACTICE QUESTIONS-especially recent ones. That way, you learn the law and you practice writing essays. Don't worry if you struggle at first...the more you do in a given subject the better you will get!



Hey thanks! ya that is the goal but right now just trying to get through the lectures, which at this point i am not sure if its worth it or just go straight to practice exams and learn the rules through the exams. :roll:


In my humble opinion....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! The lectures weren't as useful for me, personally, as I had hoped they would be.


Thanks :-) feels like there is not enough time :roll: . BTW did you already take Feb bar exam or planning on sitting for the July Bar?

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nothingtosee
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby nothingtosee » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:59 am

Where is a rubric for how the essays are graded?

Tiredbuthappyitsover
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Tiredbuthappyitsover » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:37 am

np1211 wrote:
Tiredbuthappyitsover wrote:
np1211 wrote:
Tiredbuthappyitsover wrote:
np1211 wrote:Hi Just wondering what is everyone's strategy studying for the Essay portion of the exam? I am debating if i should even spend 3 hours on lectures for things like community property and federal income tax. Also how many hours are you guys studying in a day? I am very nervous as i have an infant who just started teething and i feel like i am not able to spend as much time studying as i would like. :( .


DO TONS OF OLD PRACTICE QUESTIONS-especially recent ones. That way, you learn the law and you practice writing essays. Don't worry if you struggle at first...the more you do in a given subject the better you will get!



Hey thanks! ya that is the goal but right now just trying to get through the lectures, which at this point i am not sure if its worth it or just go straight to practice exams and learn the rules through the exams. :roll:


In my humble opinion....PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! The lectures weren't as useful for me, personally, as I had hoped they would be.


Thanks :-) feels like there is not enough time :roll: . BTW did you already take Feb bar exam or planning on sitting for the July Bar?


I took February 2017 and passed. Thank G.O.D!

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:43 am

nothingtosee wrote:Where is a rubric for how the essays are graded?

Each essay will have its own rubric. They're not publicly available. For specific past essays, you can get some general idea from looking at the selected answers. For essays in general, you can get some idea from the bar exam website, though it's really more about how they're converted so that each essay has a similar statistical distribution (so that, for example, people who are good at biz-orgs don't get screwed if biz-orgs graders are especially stingy), and then scaled:

(4) Texas Essay Questions. The Texas Bar
Examination includes 12 Texas Essay questions. Each
essay question is graded on a scale where 25 is the
highest possible score and 0 is the lowest possible
score. The raw scores on each essay question are then
converted to a common score distribution that
weights the questions equally and allows for direct
comparison of scores across the twelve questions

. . .

Method of Scaling Scores
. . .
• The sum of the converted Essay scores is
scaled to a score distribution that has the
same mean and standard deviation as the
MBE scaled scores.


If you really want to get into the weeds, check out the psychometric audit of the bar exam from a few years ago.

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nothingtosee
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby nothingtosee » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:19 am

BVest wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Where is a rubric for how the essays are graded?

Each essay will have its own rubric. They're not publicly available. For specific past essays, you can get some general idea from looking at the selected answers. For essays in general, you can get some idea from the bar exam website, though it's really more about how they're converted so that each essay has a similar statistical distribution (so that, for example, people who are good at biz-orgs don't get screwed if biz-orgs graders are especially stingy), and then scaled:

(4) Texas Essay Questions. The Texas Bar
Examination includes 12 Texas Essay questions. Each
essay question is graded on a scale where 25 is the
highest possible score and 0 is the lowest possible
score. The raw scores on each essay question are then
converted to a common score distribution that
weights the questions equally and allows for direct
comparison of scores across the twelve questions

. . .

Method of Scaling Scores
. . .
• The sum of the converted Essay scores is
scaled to a score distribution that has the
same mean and standard deviation as the
MBE scaled scores.


If you really want to get into the weeds, check out the psychometric audit of the bar exam from a few years ago.



This is helpful. I guess my question is more like: say I have an adverse possession statute, and I give the wrong category, and the wrong length of years, and come to the wrong conclusion. How many points can you score if you misstate all the substantive law?

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:11 pm

nothingtosee wrote:This is helpful. I guess my question is more like: say I have an adverse possession statute, and I give the wrong category, and the wrong length of years, and come to the wrong conclusion. How many points can you score if you misstate all the substantive law?

No way to know.

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TheWalrus
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby TheWalrus » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:51 pm

What is everyone's strategy for Texas civ pro and evidence?

czechos37
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby czechos37 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:56 am

Anyone using Themis take the full MBE practice exam yesterday? Just wondering how everyone is doing/feeling? I got a 76 for the mock AM session and a 69 for the mock PM session, for a total of 145. I feel pretty good about the score, although not sure how that will play out on game day since the actual MBE is now out of 175 (with 25 experimental questions) as opposed to when I took the NJ bar back in 2014 and it was out of 190 (with only 10 experimental questions). There was also no Civ. Pro. on the MBE when I took it back then either. Hope you all are feeling ok!

Slow Your Roll
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby Slow Your Roll » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:44 pm

TheWalrus wrote:What is everyone's strategy for Texas civ pro and evidence?


Is anyone doing the Barbri Civ Pro and Evidence extra lectures? Also, has anyone done it previously and would recommend it?

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BVest
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby BVest » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:12 pm

czechos37 wrote:Anyone using Themis take the full MBE practice exam yesterday? Just wondering how everyone is doing/feeling? I got a 76 for the mock AM session and a 69 for the mock PM session, for a total of 145. I feel pretty good about the score, although not sure how that will play out on game day since the actual MBE is now out of 175 (with 25 experimental questions) as opposed to when I took the NJ bar back in 2014 and it was out of 190 (with only 10 experimental questions). There was also no Civ. Pro. on the MBE when I took it back then either. Hope you all are feeling ok!

A) 175 questions will make no difference.

B) here are past practice-to-gameday results. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

C) worrying about how your raw 145 practice test translates is borderline humble bragging.

czechos37
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby czechos37 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:31 pm

BVest wrote:
czechos37 wrote:Anyone using Themis take the full MBE practice exam yesterday? Just wondering how everyone is doing/feeling? I got a 76 for the mock AM session and a 69 for the mock PM session, for a total of 145. I feel pretty good about the score, although not sure how that will play out on game day since the actual MBE is now out of 175 (with 25 experimental questions) as opposed to when I took the NJ bar back in 2014 and it was out of 190 (with only 10 experimental questions). There was also no Civ. Pro. on the MBE when I took it back then either. Hope you all are feeling ok!

A) 175 questions will make no difference.

B) here are past practice-to-gameday results. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

C) worrying about how your raw 145 practice test translates is borderline humble bragging.


I'm definitely not trying to brag. I actually feel like the score was a fluke because it's not at all reflective of how the rest of my practice MBE sessions have been going, but at the very least it raised my confidence. In any event, thank you for posting that spreadsheet, that was helpful to look at and also raised my confidence, which sometimes is all it takes. Thanks and good luck to all!

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TheWalrus
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby TheWalrus » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:56 pm

Slow Your Roll wrote:
TheWalrus wrote:What is everyone's strategy for Texas civ pro and evidence?


Is anyone doing the Barbri Civ Pro and Evidence extra lectures? Also, has anyone done it previously and would recommend it?


I'm not. I've heard it's not worth it.

Does anyone know where Online PDF in Information/Help Center: Answer and Self-Grade July 2014 Criminal Procedure & Evidence Exam Questions 11 - 20 is located?

np1211
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby np1211 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:24 am

is anyone else freaking out? i am ok with MBE and P&E; however it seems like i don't even know how i will approach answering the essay questions. Especially certain topics like Secured Transactions, commercial paper, and consumer rights. Any advice? Reviewing the essays help; however i am not sure if i will be able to answer the questions in the same manner on my own.

czechos37
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Re: July 2017 Texas Bar Exam

Postby czechos37 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:53 am

np1211 wrote:is anyone else freaking out? i am ok with MBE and P&E; however it seems like i don't even know how i will approach answering the essay questions. Especially certain topics like Secured Transactions, commercial paper, and consumer rights. Any advice? Reviewing the essays help; however i am not sure if i will be able to answer the questions in the same manner on my own.


I was feeling like that too about a lot of the same topics, but I was able to ease my mind a little bit. What I did was print out the old essay exams from the BLE website. I've been going through them for all of the topics, but focusing on the ones that are harder for me. I sit down and type them out without any notes (to save time, I've just been writing out the answer to the question, after I think about the analysis, and then the rule of law). If you have trouble with your timing or your analysis, I would consider writing out the full answer, but if it's just the law your concerned with, just write out the law. When I finish that, I go through the model answers they have posted, I correct my answer or add to it in a Word document (if needed). If you do that and then keep reviewing the word document, you will start remembering everything after just a few essays and you will find the essays to be a lot more manageable. The essays repeat a lot of the same topics over and over again, so I found this strategy to help ease my mind.

If anyone else has any other advice on the essays, I'd love to hear it as well!




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