How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

arc1138
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:49 pm

How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby arc1138 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:04 am

Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?

blaze1306
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:28 am

arc1138 wrote:Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?



I'm 11 and now 16 points off after two tries, i'm not quitting there is always hope. This is the last hurdle. All you need is a good combination of questions on the MEE that you are knowledgeable about, and a good MBE score.

Its not about how smart you are, every thing can be studied for.

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:35 am

my friend who passed last July was off by 20 points from her first exam. 131 MBE rest essays, needed 270. In July, I think she got 278?
It was definitely possible to increase 20 points within a couple of months.
You just need to find "what" it is that you need to improve and find out "how" you can do it.

How were each exams different? (other than using critical pass cards)
Last edited by happyhour1122 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

arc1138
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby arc1138 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:36 am

That's a great attitude and I'm hoping for that as well, but for some reason I feel kind of hopeless right now. I've blown the MPT every time so I know I can improve that. This last exam essays were so screwed up, not one Civ Pro, Torts, Crim law, Crim Pro, Evidence question! So I guess if I bone up on the obscure stuff and the MPT maybe that'll do.

arc1138
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby arc1138 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:41 am

@happyhour
This one was odd, like I said before, unpredictable essays Agency, Trusts, Corporations, ONE small contracts sub question, equity. I was so expecting at least a cig pro question.

The way I studied I didn't do ANY practice essays since I was following Barbri and fell behind.
Also didn't do enough MBE practice

Too much time watching lectures, taking too long to get through them.

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:42 pm

arc1138 wrote:@happyhour
This one was odd, like I said before, unpredictable essays Agency, Trusts, Corporations, ONE small contracts sub question, equity. I was so expecting at least a cig pro question.

The way I studied I didn't do ANY practice essays since I was following Barbri and fell behind.
Also didn't do enough MBE practice

Too much time watching lectures, taking too long to get through them.


Will it be reasonable to say that you didn't study (perhaps didn't expect to be on the exam) mee questions? You didn't do enough mbe questions because you fell behind barbri? Too much time Watching levtures?

Just by changing all this will probabaly increase your score. Looks like You found a new way to improve!

blaze1306
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:46 pm

happyhour1122 wrote:my friend who passed last July was off by 20 points from her first exam. 131 MBE rest essays, needed 270. In July, I think she got 278?
It was definitely possible to increase 20 points within a couple of months.
You just need to find "what" it is that you need to improve and find out "how" you can do it.

How were each exams different? (other than using critical pass cards)



This is what I need to hear!

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:55 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:my friend who passed last July was off by 20 points from her first exam. 131 MBE rest essays, needed 270. In July, I think she got 278?
It was definitely possible to increase 20 points within a couple of months.
You just need to find "what" it is that you need to improve and find out "how" you can do it.

How were each exams different? (other than using critical pass cards)



This is what I need to hear!


its the truth. If I pass, I'll be the other person to encourage you. I was not even close to passing.

yankeeman86
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby yankeeman86 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:09 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
arc1138 wrote:Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?



I'm 11 and now 16 points off after two tries, i'm not quitting there is always hope. This is the last hurdle. All you need is a good combination of questions on the MEE that you are knowledgeable about, and a good MBE score.

Its not about how smart you are, every thing can be studied for.


what was your lsat score?

LockBox
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby LockBox » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:17 pm

Read this: http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/9000 ... t-Attempt/

Notably:
Do not, under any circumstances, give up. I meet people all the time who gave up taking the bar exam. When people who went to law school meet, they always ask if they practice and what law school they graduated from. People who went to law school and did not pass the bar exam have to explain it constantly – throughout their entire life. This is not something you want to have hanging over your head. You want to take the exam, pass and move on.

I know numerous people who gave up. Many of these people are superstars and extremely smart, and it is my belief that they have no excuse to surrender. If you went to law school, take the exam and pass it. You worked hard to get an undergraduate degree, studied hard for the LSAT, attended three years of law school, and took the accompanying final exams, all with the goal of becoming an attorney. All of this work should not go to waste, and you must take the exam again and pass. That is all there is to it.

InterAlia1961
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby InterAlia1961 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:21 pm

Do you want to practice law or not? If you don't, then give up. If you do, then get back to it. Keep trying. It has nothing to do with points and everything to do with making your dream come true.

User avatar
rcharter1978
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Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby rcharter1978 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:21 pm

arc1138 wrote:Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?


I went up over 70 points on the CBX to pass the second time I took it.

lawst_
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:44 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby lawst_ » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:26 pm

arc1138 wrote:@happyhour
This one was odd, like I said before, unpredictable essays Agency, Trusts, Corporations, ONE small contracts sub question, equity. I was so expecting at least a cig pro question.

The way I studied I didn't do ANY practice essays since I was following Barbri and fell behind.
Also didn't do enough MBE practice

Too much time watching lectures, taking too long to get through them.


My biggest advice to all bar takers: DO NOT WATCH THE LECTURES! Gigantic waste of time that I wish I realized the first 2 times I took the bar. You'll never remember everything covered in a 4 hour lecture. That time is better spent studying outlines and condensing them to your own outlines.

They use those damn lectures so it seems like you're getting something substantive for all the money you're paying. In reality, the lectures are worthless.

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:26 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
arc1138 wrote:Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?


I went up over 70 points on the CBX to pass the second time I took it.


If its ok...I'd like to call that mis-bubbling..

LockBox
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby LockBox » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:50 pm

happyhour1122 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
arc1138 wrote:Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?


I went up over 70 points on the CBX to pass the second time I took it.


If its ok...I'd like to call that mis-bubbling..


If it's ok, i'd like to ask why? No, rcharter didn't "misbubble" the first time when he failed - he just didn't do well enough to get over the hump. I've spoken with him a number of times about it. I didn't either my first time.

To me, it's a mistake and poor attitude to chalk failure up to "misbubbling" or the arbitrariness of the bar examiners grading. It's not luck or chance - you pass because you demonstrate lawerly thinking/writing over the span of 2-3 days.

Conversely, rcharter didn't pass the second time because he merely bubbled correctly. He passed because he took an accurate look at his strengths/weaknesses and adjusted accordingly.

You do yourself a disservice by making excuses for failure.

santa_mcgee
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby santa_mcgee » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:47 pm

OP said he was off by 10 points this time (I don't know how to quote past posts...). I think it's definitely possible to score that much on the next exam. My score was 257 last year and in my state you need at least 266. When I told my boss, he said 9 points isn't that bad. He mentioned that if I had gotten something in the 240s then maybe I should rethink my life but I've heard success stories even in that range so who knows. My state doesn't release scores when you pass so for all I know, I did really well or I barely passed the February exam.

The essays too, similar to OP, there were two civ pro questions last year and crim law too so I studied those a lot and memorized all the subject matter jurisdiction is this, personal jurisdiction is that.... I expected at least one civ pro question but no, instead we get family law and trusts. Ugh! I know family law is important but that was one of the subjects that I hated the most in school. Just people constantly acting petty and bitching about every little thing.

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:11 pm

santa_mcgee wrote:OP said he was off by 10 points this time (I don't know how to quote past posts...). I think it's definitely possible to score that much on the next exam. My score was 257 last year and in my state you need at least 266. When I told my boss, he said 9 points isn't that bad. He mentioned that if I had gotten something in the 240s then maybe I should rethink my life but I've heard success stories even in that range so who knows. My state doesn't release scores when you pass so for all I know, I did really well or I barely passed the February exam.

The essays too, similar to OP, there were two civ pro questions last year and crim law too so I studied those a lot and memorized all the subject matter jurisdiction is this, personal jurisdiction is that.... I expected at least one civ pro question but no, instead we get family law and trusts. Ugh! I know family law is important but that was one of the subjects that I hated the most in school. Just people constantly acting petty and bitching about every little thing.


Damn that fam law!

yankeeman86
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby yankeeman86 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:46 pm

santa_mcgee wrote:OP said he was off by 10 points this time (I don't know how to quote past posts...). I think it's definitely possible to score that much on the next exam. My score was 257 last year and in my state you need at least 266. When I told my boss, he said 9 points isn't that bad. He mentioned that if I had gotten something in the 240s then maybe I should rethink my life but I've heard success stories even in that range so who knows. My state doesn't release scores when you pass so for all I know, I did really well or I barely passed the February exam.

The essays too, similar to OP, there were two civ pro questions last year and crim law too so I studied those a lot and memorized all the subject matter jurisdiction is this, personal jurisdiction is that.... I expected at least one civ pro question but no, instead we get family law and trusts. Ugh! I know family law is important but that was one of the subjects that I hated the most in school. Just people constantly acting petty and bitching about every little thing.



According to Silverman Bar Prep, for F2017, an MBE scaled score of 135 puts you at the 55 MBE percentile, whereas a 145 puts you at the 81 MBE percentile. 55% vs 81%. Sounds like a large gap, but you are talking about a difference of 5-9 correctly answered MBE questions or even less!

The point is that with this exam, if you study smart, you can pass regardless of how crappy your previous score was. My mentor in fact showed me his scores. He took the exam two times before passing on his third try. He went from 224 to 260 to 310. No joke.

blaze1306
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:40 am

yankeeman86 wrote:
santa_mcgee wrote:OP said he was off by 10 points this time (I don't know how to quote past posts...). I think it's definitely possible to score that much on the next exam. My score was 257 last year and in my state you need at least 266. When I told my boss, he said 9 points isn't that bad. He mentioned that if I had gotten something in the 240s then maybe I should rethink my life but I've heard success stories even in that range so who knows. My state doesn't release scores when you pass so for all I know, I did really well or I barely passed the February exam.

The essays too, similar to OP, there were two civ pro questions last year and crim law too so I studied those a lot and memorized all the subject matter jurisdiction is this, personal jurisdiction is that.... I expected at least one civ pro question but no, instead we get family law and trusts. Ugh! I know family law is important but that was one of the subjects that I hated the most in school. Just people constantly acting petty and bitching about every little thing.



According to Silverman Bar Prep, for F2017, an MBE scaled score of 135 puts you at the 55 MBE percentile, whereas a 145 puts you at the 81 MBE percentile. 55% vs 81%. Sounds like a large gap, but you are talking about a difference of 5-9 correctly answered MBE questions or even less!

The point is that with this exam, if you study smart, you can pass regardless of how crappy your previous score was. My mentor in fact showed me his scores. He took the exam two times before passing on his third try. He went from 224 to 260 to 310. No joke.



That is absolutely crazy, id kill for an improvement like that!

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:17 am

yankeeman86 wrote:
santa_mcgee wrote:OP said he was off by 10 points this time (I don't know how to quote past posts...). I think it's definitely possible to score that much on the next exam. My score was 257 last year and in my state you need at least 266. When I told my boss, he said 9 points isn't that bad. He mentioned that if I had gotten something in the 240s then maybe I should rethink my life but I've heard success stories even in that range so who knows. My state doesn't release scores when you pass so for all I know, I did really well or I barely passed the February exam.

The essays too, similar to OP, there were two civ pro questions last year and crim law too so I studied those a lot and memorized all the subject matter jurisdiction is this, personal jurisdiction is that.... I expected at least one civ pro question but no, instead we get family law and trusts. Ugh! I know family law is important but that was one of the subjects that I hated the most in school. Just people constantly acting petty and bitching about every little thing.



According to Silverman Bar Prep, for F2017, an MBE scaled score of 135 puts you at the 55 MBE percentile, whereas a 145 puts you at the 81 MBE percentile. 55% vs 81%. Sounds like a large gap, but you are talking about a difference of 5-9 correctly answered MBE questions or even less!

The point is that with this exam, if you study smart, you can pass regardless of how crappy your previous score was. My mentor in fact showed me his scores. He took the exam two times before passing on his third try. He went from 224 to 260 to 310. No joke.


only 5-9 questions difference? that is so narrow. I got 133 last exam,,,,,,,,I'd shoot myself if I get 133ish again. I was totally lacking confidence and guess a bunch of questions back then. Hopefully it will be different this time....

arc1138
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby arc1138 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:29 am

This is all great to hear! I really appreciate all the responses. I was feeling pretty hopeless

happyhour1122
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby happyhour1122 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:35 am

arc1138 wrote:This is all great to hear! I really appreciate all the responses. I was feeling pretty hopeless


hey,
if you need anything to help you stay motivated,or if you need recommendations on materials or need notes/ tips/ anything, let us know. Except for some people (who apparently gets too personal), we are very friendly here. Once I find out if I passed my exam or not, I will be here if you need anything. :D I'd be more than happy to send you what I have.

Carrie_Homeland
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:26 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby Carrie_Homeland » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:46 pm

I agree with everything above.

I was able to raise my UBE score 29 points from last July while working 40+ hours a week. It is totally do-able. Find where you can make the stand to make up the most ground and make a game plan to improve in those areas. This bar exam can only beat you if you let it.

lawst_
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:44 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby lawst_ » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:09 pm

Hey Arc,

I know we've chatted about this a few times, especially since we've both been in the same boat.

My advice? Don't you give up until you have passed the bar in at least 1 state.

My bar stats:
July 2015: 249 (MBE was a lousy 119 scaled)
February 2016: 262 (MBE was a slightly better but still awful 125)
July 2016: 258 (can't find score report with the MBE)
February 2017: PASSED.

I know studying for and taking the bar is such a demanding process, especially when you're working full or part time, and even moreso if you have a family. But the satisfaction of finally closing this chapter in your life is so very worth it. I know for a fact that receiving the "Congratulations!" letter from the Illinois Bar will forever be one of my best memories, and I'm excited for you to reach that as well.

Even though I failed multiple times, I improved 13 points from July 15 - Feb 16. And I improved at the very least 8 points from July 16 - Feb 17. Trust me, if I can do it, you absolutely can. The MBE killed me in the past, but it's very learnable. Once you get upwards of 700 practice questions (REAL MBE questions - not Barbri questions) you start seeing patterns and are able to more easily eliminate wrong answers.

Also, I'm not sure what your ultimate goal is...but you may consider taking the bar in a state with either a lower score to pass, or if you have 135+ on your MBE, transferring your score to DC and only sitting for the essay. EDIT: I say this because if you don't want to practice in IL, or you find a position that requires bar passage in any state, passing may be easier in another state.

Ridgewood_53
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:20 pm

Re: How many points away from the passing score until you quit trying?

Postby Ridgewood_53 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:42 pm

arc1138 wrote:Okay,
So I've taken the IL bar 3 times. I had a 149 LSAT score and graduated on time.
However I've not been able to pass. All 3 times I've gone up in score and this last time I was 10 points off.
Is that an insurmountable point gap?
I think I know a place where I can make up points but just wonder if I never had what it takes in the first place.

Anyone have a similar experience and pass? Quit?


July 2016: 266

Feb. 2017: 313

154 LSAT and a complete moron in law school. Trust me, there's hope.




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