Two Time Loser Study Tips

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blaze1306

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Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:21 am

I have failed two consecutive UBE Exams ( July 2016 and Feb 2017). I anticipate taking the July 2017 exam and I would like study tips on fixing what I am doing wrong.

I have had an epiphany and I think I need help on my memorization of black letter law as well as how to apply it to UBE essays. I have recently realized that knowing elements is not the same as knowing enough about a subject to write a very specific essay question. I will attempt to use real examples from recent exams and all help is welcome. One of the main reasons for this is to help all of us that see no rhyme or rhythm to this exams. For example the family law question on the Feb exam was a complete mystery to me. I didn't take family law in law school and I did, at most, a cursory review before the exam. I basically guessed, threw out some buzz words and prayed for one point. I got a 3 of 6. How, in the blue hell does guessing, with absolutely no knowledge, get a 3 while the agency question ( actual authority, ratification, liability of principle) I knew the most about, wrote the most about and felt good about, was also a 3?

I don't have a lot of study time (full time job, three kids etc.) and I need help studying only relevant information. How do you assimilate only the pertinent information (from the mountain of possible subjects and subpoints) for these increasingly specific questions? My outlines are very bare bones, elements and very short points or mnemonics. How expansive do I need to get in order to effectively wax poetic on the essays.

If you have any example I would really appreciate it. I anticipate taking Themis ( assuming I can afford it) are their handouts all I need?

happyhour1122

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:39 am

Until I get my results to give you more specific information and transfer some of materials I have, I need you (or recommend) to do two things.

Whatever materials you have now whether its Themis, Barbri or Kaplan, review each subjects in full outline.
I know it seem like a waste of time, but don't just "read". Start a google doc on your drive and start taking notes and create a "midsized" outline from the full outline.

For example,(from my own outline created from a full barbri outline); see below.
You must do ALL the subjects. It took me 2-3 days depending on the subject to finish the overview. I worked full time while I was doing this. You must be self disciplined. You said you have three kids. I don't know how old they are, but if they are old enough to understand and talk, sit down with them and help them recognize how serious this is. Let them watch TV, let them do whatever they want to distract their attention from you. If they are too young, its even better, tell them what you've learned today and pretend you are reading them a night time story, but you are reading them the barbri outline. Yes, this is sad. But you have to do it. I know its easier said than done, but please do this for 2-3 month.

While you read the full outline, you will recognize what is important and what you can avoid (for now). As you all know, we can't process/remember everything. This is where you game starts. If you look at my example, I've used quotation on the key words that I KNOW I WOULD WANT TO USE in the exam. This is very important.

example from full outline:
CIVIL PROCEDURE OUTLINE

Exercise of PJ generally must be authorized by statute and constitutional.
Most states have statutes granting their cts in PJ where: (1)D is present in the state and personally served with process without any fraud(2) D is domiciled in the state even though not physically in the state when served (3) D consents (4) D committed acts bringing him with the state’s long arm statutes.
CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON PJ
Once it is determined that statute allows ct to exercise PJ, constitutionality must be determined: 1)contact 2)notice.
Contact: Traditional rule: Physical, residence, or consent; Modern rule: minimm contact between D and state so it does not offend “traditional notions and fair play and substantial justice” (contact, relatedness and fairness).
1.Contact: International Shoe “minimum contact” that exercise of jurisdiction would be fair and reasonable. Court look at 1)purposeful availment 2) foreseeability.
Purposeful availment: D’s contact must result from purposeful availment of “privileges of conducting activities within the forum state invoking benefits and protection of law”. Merely placing an item in stream commerce not



Do this and I will update you once I get my results.
If I don't pass again, please don't listen to me.

blaze1306

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:48 am

happyhour1122 wrote:Until I get my results to give you more specific information and transfer some of materials I have, I need you (or recommend) to do two things.

Whatever materials you have now whether its Themis, Barbri or Kaplan, review each subjects in full outline.
I know it seem like a waste of time, but don't just "read". Start a google doc on your drive and start taking notes and create a "midsized" outline from the full outline.

For example,(from my own outline created from a full barbri outline); see below.
You must do ALL the subjects. It took me 2-3 days depending on the subject to finish the overview. I worked full time while I was doing this. You must be self disciplined. You said you have three kids. I don't know how old they are, but if they are old enough to understand and talk, sit down with them and help them recognize how serious this is. Let them watch TV, let them do whatever they want to distract their attention from you. If they are too young, its even better, tell them what you've learned today and pretend you are reading them a night time story, but you are reading them the barbri outline. Yes, this is sad. But you have to do it. I know its easier said than done, but please do this for 2-3 month.

example from full outline:
CIVIL PROCEDURE OUTLINE

Exercise of PJ generally must be authorized by statute and constitutional.
Most states have statutes granting their cts in PJ where: (1)D is present in the state and personally served with process without any fraud(2) D is domiciled in the state even though not physically in the state when served (3) D consents (4) D committed acts bringing him with the state’s long arm statutes.
CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON PJ
Once it is determined that statute allows ct to exercise PJ, constitutionality must be determined: 1)contact 2)notice.
Contact: Traditional rule: Physical, residence, or consent; Modern rule: minimm contact between D and state so it does not offend “traditional notions and fair play and substantial justice” (contact, relatedness and fairness).
1.Contact: International Shoe “minimum contact” that exercise of jurisdiction would be fair and reasonable. Court look at 1)purposeful availment 2) foreseeability.
Purposeful availment: D’s contact must result from purposeful availment of “privileges of conducting activities within the forum state invoking benefits and protection of law”. Merely placing an item in stream commerce not



Do this and I will update you once I get my results.



I was thinking about doing what you suggest. What do you think about making specific attack outlines for everything? For example:

Contracts very short offer, acceptance, consideration(each with two line explanation)
5 types of contracts Option...etc (with four lines of explanation each)


This will give me something to put down no matter what I see, so I can read the question and immediately say "well this is crim law battery I have something BLL to say"

happyhour1122

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:51 am

blaze1306 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:Until I get my results to give you more specific information and transfer some of materials I have, I need you (or recommend) to do two things.

Whatever materials you have now whether its Themis, Barbri or Kaplan, review each subjects in full outline.
I know it seem like a waste of time, but don't just "read". Start a google doc on your drive and start taking notes and create a "midsized" outline from the full outline.

For example,(from my own outline created from a full barbri outline); see below.
You must do ALL the subjects. It took me 2-3 days depending on the subject to finish the overview. I worked full time while I was doing this. You must be self disciplined. You said you have three kids. I don't know how old they are, but if they are old enough to understand and talk, sit down with them and help them recognize how serious this is. Let them watch TV, let them do whatever they want to distract their attention from you. If they are too young, its even better, tell them what you've learned today and pretend you are reading them a night time story, but you are reading them the barbri outline. Yes, this is sad. But you have to do it. I know its easier said than done, but please do this for 2-3 month.

example from full outline:
CIVIL PROCEDURE OUTLINE

Exercise of PJ generally must be authorized by statute and constitutional.
Most states have statutes granting their cts in PJ where: (1)D is present in the state and personally served with process without any fraud(2) D is domiciled in the state even though not physically in the state when served (3) D consents (4) D committed acts bringing him with the state’s long arm statutes.
CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON PJ
Once it is determined that statute allows ct to exercise PJ, constitutionality must be determined: 1)contact 2)notice.
Contact: Traditional rule: Physical, residence, or consent; Modern rule: minimm contact between D and state so it does not offend “traditional notions and fair play and substantial justice” (contact, relatedness and fairness).
1.Contact: International Shoe “minimum contact” that exercise of jurisdiction would be fair and reasonable. Court look at 1)purposeful availment 2) foreseeability.
Purposeful availment: D’s contact must result from purposeful availment of “privileges of conducting activities within the forum state invoking benefits and protection of law”. Merely placing an item in stream commerce not



Do this and I will update you once I get my results.



I was thinking about doing what you suggest. What do you think about making specific attack outlines for everything? For example:

Contracts very short offer, acceptance, consideration(each with two line explanation)
5 types of contracts Option...etc (with four lines of explanation each)


This will give me something to put down no matter what I see, so I can read the question and immediately say "well this is crim law battery I have something BLL to say"


Yes. One of the changes I've made from my first to second exam was exactly that.

for example,

K: offer, acceptance consideration. Offcer is dflkajdf;akdsfj;a, acceptance is asdkfljasd;fkjsdfk;j consideration is asdklfjs;adfkljas;d.
Each explaination should be given a point (hopefully). I personally didn't put them in my outline because I got into a habit of defining them as I practiced my MEEs, and trust me you don't want your outline long. So, I suggest you practice them when you do your MEE

GamecockEsq

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby GamecockEsq » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:54 am

For MBE help, I have a brand new Emanuel's Strategy and Tactics for the MBE book - the most updated version that includes the civil procedure part. I bought it and read the study material in it and took notes from it, but never marked in it or damaged it in any way. Assuming I pass this stupid thing this time around (get results on Friday), I am planning on selling it. Let me know if you're interested!

blaze1306

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:00 am

happyhour1122 wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:Until I get my results to give you more specific information and transfer some of materials I have, I need you (or recommend) to do two things.

Whatever materials you have now whether its Themis, Barbri or Kaplan, review each subjects in full outline.
I know it seem like a waste of time, but don't just "read". Start a google doc on your drive and start taking notes and create a "midsized" outline from the full outline.

For example,(from my own outline created from a full barbri outline); see below.
You must do ALL the subjects. It took me 2-3 days depending on the subject to finish the overview. I worked full time while I was doing this. You must be self disciplined. You said you have three kids. I don't know how old they are, but if they are old enough to understand and talk, sit down with them and help them recognize how serious this is. Let them watch TV, let them do whatever they want to distract their attention from you. If they are too young, its even better, tell them what you've learned today and pretend you are reading them a night time story, but you are reading them the barbri outline. Yes, this is sad. But you have to do it. I know its easier said than done, but please do this for 2-3 month.

example from full outline:
CIVIL PROCEDURE OUTLINE

Exercise of PJ generally must be authorized by statute and constitutional.
Most states have statutes granting their cts in PJ where: (1)D is present in the state and personally served with process without any fraud(2) D is domiciled in the state even though not physically in the state when served (3) D consents (4) D committed acts bringing him with the state’s long arm statutes.
CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON PJ
Once it is determined that statute allows ct to exercise PJ, constitutionality must be determined: 1)contact 2)notice.
Contact: Traditional rule: Physical, residence, or consent; Modern rule: minimm contact between D and state so it does not offend “traditional notions and fair play and substantial justice” (contact, relatedness and fairness).
1.Contact: International Shoe “minimum contact” that exercise of jurisdiction would be fair and reasonable. Court look at 1)purposeful availment 2) foreseeability.
Purposeful availment: D’s contact must result from purposeful availment of “privileges of conducting activities within the forum state invoking benefits and protection of law”. Merely placing an item in stream commerce not



Do this and I will update you once I get my results.



I was thinking about doing what you suggest. What do you think about making specific attack outlines for everything? For example:

Contracts very short offer, acceptance, consideration(each with two line explanation)
5 types of contracts Option...etc (with four lines of explanation each)


This will give me something to put down no matter what I see, so I can read the question and immediately say "well this is crim law battery I have something BLL to say"


Yes. One of the changes I've made from my first to second exam was exactly that.

for example,

K: offer, acceptance consideration. Offcer is dflkajdf;akdsfj;a, acceptance is asdkfljasd;fkjsdfk;j consideration is asdklfjs;adfkljas;d.
Each explaination should be given a point (hopefully). I personally didn't put them in my outline because I got into a habit of defining them as I practiced my MEEs, and trust me you don't want your outline long. So, I suggest you practice them when you do your MEE



Ok help me with this point, so I looked at the NCBE website of subjects, looking for where in the outline these last essay subjects were. It was pretty clear. How effective would you consider attack outlines for each one of these?

http://www.ncbex.org/pdfviewer/?file=%2 ... ment%2F183


How do I keep it effective but short? The outline is 13 pages!

happyhour1122

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:13 am

I'm confused.
Create your own outline; not retrieve from other resources.
You still have your "full outline" right?
read that and make your outline based off what you've learned.
Don't look into NCBE or other commercial outlines. You have to process your own.

Just to be clear, yes the outline is 13 pages, but remember this includes all the subjects.
I'm talking about making your own outline per each subject. which should be around 10-20 pages per subject depending on which subject.

Remember outlining is not only to "outline". Its part of your learning process!
Last edited by happyhour1122 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

blaze1306

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:16 am

happyhour1122 wrote:I'm confused.
Create your own outline; not retrieve from other resources.
You still have your "full outline" right?
read that and make your outline based off what you've learned.
Don't look into NCBE or other commercial outlines. You have to process your own.

Just to be clear, yes the outline is 13 pages, but remember this includes all the subjects.
I'm talking about making your own outline per each subject. which should be around 10-20 pages per subject depending on which


My thought was to make my own attack outline following the NCBE outline. I would make a concise attack outline for almost every heading and subheading.
Given the size of the NCBE outline my attack outline would be huge but at least comprehensive, and if I can pull it off I would at least be in the ballpark for my greatest short coming of not having anything to say about a weak subject like family law recognition of common law marriage in a second state or real property surrender and mitigation.
Last edited by blaze1306 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

happyhour1122

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:19 am

blaze1306 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:I'm confused.
Create your own outline; not retrieve from other resources.
You still have your "full outline" right?
read that and make your outline based off what you've learned.
Don't look into NCBE or other commercial outlines. You have to process your own.

Just to be clear, yes the outline is 13 pages, but remember this includes all the subjects.
I'm talking about making your own outline per each subject. which should be around 10-20 pages per subject depending on which


My thought was to make my own attack outline following the NCBE outline. I would make a concise attack outline for almost every heading and subheading.


Oh ic what you mean now.
I guess you could use that as your "roadmap" to narrow your topics? outlining shouldn't be only to "outline", whichever works the best for you to "learn", DO IT!

chuckfin0808

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby chuckfin0808 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:58 am

Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.

blaze1306

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:22 pm

chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?

LockBox

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby LockBox » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:35 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Good to see you're still sticking with it. I also passed on my third attempt. My advice: do not write outlines, or "study" at all. Zero. You need to be practicing, failing, learning and repeating.

Ideally, you would dedicate 9-10 weeks doing 2 x 50 - Writing 2 FULL ESSAYS and completing 50 MBE questions PER DAY. Get a tutor solely for the purpose of grading your essays and submit them to him/her. I guarantee you if you submit 20-40 full written essays, your average score will show you where you are at and where you will likely score on the bar.

Stop treating it like a lottery where you may get "lucky" with a question you may know something about. Would you compete in a marathon or a basketball game by reading about it and hoping you "felt" great on game day and exceeded your abilities? Hopefully not. You would PRACTICE, and hopefully practice with people who were better than you (e.g., you would fail over and over) so that you could see how you need to improve.

There are a lot of people who go to law school, read outlines and destroy the bar. Some of us (myself included) are not like that. So, you need to practice your ass off to compensate.

Get to work.

happyhour1122

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:53 pm

LockBox wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Good to see you're still sticking with it. I also passed on my third attempt. My advice: do not write outlines, or "study" at all. Zero. You need to be practicing, failing, learning and repeating.

Ideally, you would dedicate 9-10 weeks doing 2 x 50 - Writing 2 FULL ESSAYS and completing 50 MBE questions PER DAY. Get a tutor solely for the purpose of grading your essays and submit them to him/her. I guarantee you if you submit 20-40 full written essays, your average score will show you where you are at and where you will likely score on the bar.

Stop treating it like a lottery where you may get "lucky" with a question you may know something about. Would you compete in a marathon or a basketball game by reading about it and hoping you "felt" great on game day and exceeded your abilities? Hopefully not. You would PRACTICE, and hopefully practice with people who were better than you (e.g., you would fail over and over) so that you could see how you need to improve.

There are a lot of people who go to law school, read outlines and destroy the bar. Some of us (myself included) are not like that. So, you need to practice your ass off to compensate.

Get to work.


agree.
Sometimes you learn from solving questions. On the other hand, many people can't solve questions because they don't know the law.
I was one of them. i started solving questions and later ended up memorizing purely because i solved it not because I knew the law. Therefore, if you are like me, I recommend you do some studying and outlining before solving questions. However, if you already know the law, and need practicing, start solving and writing essays.

blaze1306

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:58 pm

LockBox wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Good to see you're still sticking with it. I also passed on my third attempt. My advice: do not write outlines, or "study" at all. Zero. You need to be practicing, failing, learning and repeating.

Ideally, you would dedicate 9-10 weeks doing 2 x 50 - Writing 2 FULL ESSAYS and completing 50 MBE questions PER DAY. Get a tutor solely for the purpose of grading your essays and submit them to him/her. I guarantee you if you submit 20-40 full written essays, your average score will show you where you are at and where you will likely score on the bar.

Stop treating it like a lottery where you may get "lucky" with a question you may know something about. Would you compete in a marathon or a basketball game by reading about it and hoping you "felt" great on game day and exceeded your abilities? Hopefully not. You would PRACTICE, and hopefully practice with people who were better than you (e.g., you would fail over and over) so that you could see how you need to improve.

There are a lot of people who go to law school, read outlines and destroy the bar. Some of us (myself included) are not like that. So, you need to practice your ass off to compensate.

Get to work.


Great points! But...how do I practice something I have very little confidence in, especially when I see no pattern? If I guessed on family law and get a 3 then write on what I know (agency) and also get a 3, I have no confidence or understanding on where to begin. Not to mention on the July bar I did well on the essays at 135. I don't feel like I know what I'm doing from one moment to the next. Throwing up the shot seems so arbitrary especially when I don't even think I'm shooting in the direction of the goal. What sources do you suggest for questions?

I have to admit I feel like I learned a lot from Adaptibar. I practiced and practiced failing a number of times, those questions taught me a lot of black letter law...but my score went up a whopping 2.5 points. I'm concerned with essays if all I do is practice and fail I will waste time not knowing why I'm failing.

happyhour1122

Silver
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:03 pm

I wish I could you a hug.
I really wonder what went wrong. Especially with your fam law (3) and agency law (3). Are you able to compare two essays?
Terms of MBE, how did you feel in your first exam vs the last?
Did you guess a lot or were you confident on the answer?

If you go back to one of the thread "do you feel confident?" (along those lines), people discussed many of the MBE questions. Looking at that, were you able to agree? or did you purely guess?

OMG I really wish I had my results to give you more advice. Bear with me for another 2-3 weeks.

blaze1306

Bronze
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:27 pm

happyhour1122 wrote:I wish I could you a hug.
I really wonder what went wrong. Especially with your fam law (3) and agency law (3). Are you able to compare two essays?
Terms of MBE, how did you feel in your first exam vs the last?
Did you guess a lot or were you confident on the answer?

If you go back to one of the thread "do you feel confident?" (along those lines), people discussed many of the MBE questions. Looking at that, were you able to agree? or did you purely guess?

OMG I really wish I had my results to give you more advice. Bear with me for another 2-3 weeks.



I have to pay $10.00 for my answers to the MEE and representative answers, as soon as I get then I will post. I cant imagine why the answers are like they are without seeing them. I cant get over the fact that I didn't know anything about family law and still got a 3, that completely floors me and shakes my confidence. As for MBE I'm also at a loss. I did a lot of Adaptibar and saw very little improvement. I'm not to happy with Adaptibar because I feel like 1) the questions on the actual bar were considerably shorter than the ones in the Adaptibar database. 2) the Adaptibar questions seem to be intentionally tricky, they make you question even answers you are sure about by making the correct answer obscure exceptions of exceptions. You feel like you are learning but really your learning really obscure things likely not to be on the actual exam.

I need a complete do-over...I need to shake up from everything I have done before because I feel like I am moving farther away from success instead of moving closer to it.

LockBox

Bronze
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:05 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby LockBox » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:31 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
LockBox wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Good to see you're still sticking with it. I also passed on my third attempt. My advice: do not write outlines, or "study" at all. Zero. You need to be practicing, failing, learning and repeating.

Ideally, you would dedicate 9-10 weeks doing 2 x 50 - Writing 2 FULL ESSAYS and completing 50 MBE questions PER DAY. Get a tutor solely for the purpose of grading your essays and submit them to him/her. I guarantee you if you submit 20-40 full written essays, your average score will show you where you are at and where you will likely score on the bar.

Stop treating it like a lottery where you may get "lucky" with a question you may know something about. Would you compete in a marathon or a basketball game by reading about it and hoping you "felt" great on game day and exceeded your abilities? Hopefully not. You would PRACTICE, and hopefully practice with people who were better than you (e.g., you would fail over and over) so that you could see how you need to improve.

There are a lot of people who go to law school, read outlines and destroy the bar. Some of us (myself included) are not like that. So, you need to practice your ass off to compensate.

Get to work.


Great points! But...how do I practice something I have very little confidence in, especially when I see no pattern? If I guessed on family law and get a 3 then write on what I know (agency) and also get a 3, I have no confidence or understanding on where to begin. Not to mention on the July bar I did well on the essays at 135. I don't feel like I know what I'm doing from one moment to the next. Throwing up the shot seems so arbitrary especially when I don't even think I'm shooting in the direction of the goal. What sources do you suggest for questions?

I have to admit I feel like I learned a lot from Adaptibar. I practiced and practiced failing a number of times, those questions taught me a lot of black letter law...but my score went up a whopping 2.5 points. I'm concerned with essays if all I do is practice and fail I will waste time not knowing why I'm failing.


There is obviously merit to the point that you need to "know" the law. However, after studying/reading outlines and taking the exam already, i'm not sure how much benefit to reading an outline will have for you. My problem wasn't that I didn't "understand" or "know" the law - it was applying it. To me, this is real knowledge. I'm sure if you look through essays that you did poorly on, the bll isn't foreign, right? You're probably familiar with all of the law required on essays you weren't confident on, right? If not, obviously go back and read outlines to learn the law. Otherwise, what you need is practice.

This doesn't mean just writing endlessly. You need constructive feedback. I'd recommend getting a tutor only for essay critique/feedback. Then, write. Test yourself. See if you get the black letter law, issue spotting etc. correct. See if your analysis is what the bar examiners require in order to give you a passing grade.

I found this blog post instructive: http://scientificmethodbarexam.blogspot ... -pass.html

happyhour1122

Silver
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:40 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:I wish I could you a hug.
I really wonder what went wrong. Especially with your fam law (3) and agency law (3). Are you able to compare two essays?
Terms of MBE, how did you feel in your first exam vs the last?
Did you guess a lot or were you confident on the answer?

If you go back to one of the thread "do you feel confident?" (along those lines), people discussed many of the MBE questions. Looking at that, were you able to agree? or did you purely guess?

OMG I really wish I had my results to give you more advice. Bear with me for another 2-3 weeks.



I have to pay $10.00 for my answers to the MEE and representative answers, as soon as I get then I will post. I cant imagine why the answers are like they are without seeing them. I cant get over the fact that I didn't know anything about family law and still got a 3, that completely floors me and shakes my confidence. As for MBE I'm also at a loss. I did a lot of Adaptibar and saw very little improvement. I'm not to happy with Adaptibar because I feel like 1) the questions on the actual bar were considerably shorter than the ones in the Adaptibar database. 2) the Adaptibar questions seem to be intentionally tricky, they make you question even answers you are sure about by making the correct answer obscure exceptions of exceptions. You feel like you are learning but really your learning really obscure things likely not to be on the actual exam.

I need a complete do-over...I need to shake up from everything I have done before because I feel like I am moving farther away from success instead of moving closer to it.



Please do update us. I am wondering if there was any possibility of bubbling mistakes.
I also knew nothing about family law and felt good about Agency law. Did you apply the actual authority, inherent authority, disclose, non disclose, partial disclose in your answers? There is really no point saying anything now til you get your grading....but I donno. I'm just shocked as well.

blaze1306

Bronze
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:41 pm

LockBox wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
LockBox wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Good to see you're still sticking with it. I also passed on my third attempt. My advice: do not write outlines, or "study" at all. Zero. You need to be practicing, failing, learning and repeating.

Ideally, you would dedicate 9-10 weeks doing 2 x 50 - Writing 2 FULL ESSAYS and completing 50 MBE questions PER DAY. Get a tutor solely for the purpose of grading your essays and submit them to him/her. I guarantee you if you submit 20-40 full written essays, your average score will show you where you are at and where you will likely score on the bar.

Stop treating it like a lottery where you may get "lucky" with a question you may know something about. Would you compete in a marathon or a basketball game by reading about it and hoping you "felt" great on game day and exceeded your abilities? Hopefully not. You would PRACTICE, and hopefully practice with people who were better than you (e.g., you would fail over and over) so that you could see how you need to improve.

There are a lot of people who go to law school, read outlines and destroy the bar. Some of us (myself included) are not like that. So, you need to practice your ass off to compensate.

Get to work.


Great points! But...how do I practice something I have very little confidence in, especially when I see no pattern? If I guessed on family law and get a 3 then write on what I know (agency) and also get a 3, I have no confidence or understanding on where to begin. Not to mention on the July bar I did well on the essays at 135. I don't feel like I know what I'm doing from one moment to the next. Throwing up the shot seems so arbitrary especially when I don't even think I'm shooting in the direction of the goal. What sources do you suggest for questions?

I have to admit I feel like I learned a lot from Adaptibar. I practiced and practiced failing a number of times, those questions taught me a lot of black letter law...but my score went up a whopping 2.5 points. I'm concerned with essays if all I do is practice and fail I will waste time not knowing why I'm failing.


There is obviously merit to the point that you need to "know" the law. However, after studying/reading outlines and taking the exam already, i'm not sure how much benefit to reading an outline will have for you. My problem wasn't that I didn't "understand" or "know" the law - it was applying it. To me, this is real knowledge. I'm sure if you look through essays that you did poorly on, the bll isn't foreign, right? You're probably familiar with all of the law required on essays you weren't confident on, right? If not, obviously go back and read outlines to learn the law. Otherwise, what you need is practice.

This doesn't mean just writing endlessly. You need constructive feedback. I'd recommend getting a tutor only for essay critique/feedback. Then, write. Test yourself. See if you get the black letter law, issue spotting etc. correct. See if your analysis is what the bar examiners require in order to give you a passing grade.

I found this blog post instructive: http://scientificmethodbarexam.blogspot ... -pass.html



Your post makes a lot of sense to me, and honest could be why I feel like I don't know why I got a 3 on the agency question when I wrote a lot and (at the time) felt confident. Is feeling "familiar" enough? Like a previous poster said I don't think that knowing EVERYTHING about a particular question would still make me successful. I think there may be a disconnect between what's in my head, the way I am thinking, and putting it on paper.

blaze1306

Bronze
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:43 pm

happyhour1122 wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:I wish I could you a hug.
I really wonder what went wrong. Especially with your fam law (3) and agency law (3). Are you able to compare two essays?
Terms of MBE, how did you feel in your first exam vs the last?
Did you guess a lot or were you confident on the answer?

If you go back to one of the thread "do you feel confident?" (along those lines), people discussed many of the MBE questions. Looking at that, were you able to agree? or did you purely guess?

OMG I really wish I had my results to give you more advice. Bear with me for another 2-3 weeks.



I have to pay $10.00 for my answers to the MEE and representative answers, as soon as I get then I will post. I cant imagine why the answers are like they are without seeing them. I cant get over the fact that I didn't know anything about family law and still got a 3, that completely floors me and shakes my confidence. As for MBE I'm also at a loss. I did a lot of Adaptibar and saw very little improvement. I'm not to happy with Adaptibar because I feel like 1) the questions on the actual bar were considerably shorter than the ones in the Adaptibar database. 2) the Adaptibar questions seem to be intentionally tricky, they make you question even answers you are sure about by making the correct answer obscure exceptions of exceptions. You feel like you are learning but really your learning really obscure things likely not to be on the actual exam.

I need a complete do-over...I need to shake up from everything I have done before because I feel like I am moving farther away from success instead of moving closer to it.



Please do update us. I am wondering if there was any possibility of bubbling mistakes.
I also knew nothing about family law and felt good about Agency law. Did you apply the actual authority, inherent authority, disclose, non disclose, partial disclose in your answers? There is really no point saying anything now til you get your grading....but I donno. I'm just shocked as well.



I will gladly post when I get them in. I cant honestly remember enough to accurately give you an idea of what I did wrong.

chuckfin0808

New
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:48 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby chuckfin0808 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:17 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Thanks! I took the Texas Bar exam and they post past questions and answers to the website. I went back to the 2005 Feb test and worked each question for every test (Until Feb 2016)
I also used Adaptibar. Their mobile app allowed me to get a few questions in before work, at lunch, and on break.

I was given the advice that the graders know the law, so you don't have to repeat it for them. I changed this:

According to the facts, Bob and Sue are married. They bought the Whiteacre property during the marriage in 2008. Texas law classifies property that is acquired after marriage is presumed to be community property. In accordance to Texas law, each spouse is entitled to a 50% undivided interest in all community property. Therefore, both Bob and Sue each own an undivided 50% interest...

To this:

Since Bob and Sue bought Whiteacre during their marriage, Whiteacre is assumed to be community property and each spouse is entitled to an undivided 50% interest.

It's not about proving how much you know. Just get to the point. If you start practicing condensing issue spotting with the law, you will get much faster and you more likely will hit all the issues. The first two exams I took, I wasted time stating law. Though my law was right, I missed valuable points for smaller issues.

blaze1306

Bronze
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:21 pm

chuckfin0808 wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Thanks! I took the Texas Bar exam and they post past questions and answers to the website. I went back to the 2005 Feb test and worked each question for every test (Until Feb 2016)
I also used Adaptibar. Their mobile app allowed me to get a few questions in before work, at lunch, and on break.

I was given the advice that the graders know the law, so you don't have to repeat it for them. I changed this:

According to the facts, Bob and Sue are married. They bought the Whiteacre property during the marriage in 2008. Texas law classifies property that is acquired after marriage is presumed to be community property. In accordance to Texas law, each spouse is entitled to a 50% undivided interest in all community property. Therefore, both Bob and Sue each own an undivided 50% interest...

To this:

Since Bob and Sue bought Whiteacre during their marriage, Whiteacre is assumed to be community property and each spouse is entitled to an undivided 50% interest.

It's not about proving how much you know. Just get to the point. If you start practicing condensing issue spotting with the law, you will get much faster and you more likely will hit all the issues. The first two exams I took, I wasted time stating law. Though my law was right, I missed valuable points for smaller issues.



That's interesting... I can see how that would help me save time.

blaze1306

Bronze
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:05 am

I am looking for a UBE study partner. I anticipate beginning to study again for the July exam next week.

happyhour1122

Silver
Posts: 1060
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby happyhour1122 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:08 am

blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
chuckfin0808 wrote:Passed on the third try with a full-time job. i know your frustration and pain, but YOU CAN DO THIS.

How much time are you spending actually practicing questions? If you are going into your third attempt, you most likely know the information. I know its easy to think that if we know the info perfectly, the answer will just shoot out of us on test day. I found this not to be true. Looking back now, I know that I overdid it with studying the information and making outlines to learn the info. Third time around, I put away the books and the outlines and focused on practice questions. I took the first two weeks of studying to review the material and the rest of my study months doing practice questions timed. Once I completed the question I looked over the model answer to catch the points I missed. If there is a specific topic of the law that I was weak in, I would go back to my study material and only review that topic. Then I would redo the question. I also mixed up the subject I was studying. So each day, I would do practice questions from all tested subjects, and not just "family law one day, property the next day." I think this helped my mind make the switch between subjects on test day smoothly.

This strategy improved my score dramatically. Now , if you feel you need to learn more info, then do so. Just don't forget that practicing for the exam is just as important (if not more important than knowing the info.) This strategy also greatly reduced my exam day stress.



I like your ideas and congrats on passing. My biggest fear (and it happened on the Feb exam) is getting a question or two I know nothing about. I guessed on the family law question. But the crazy thing is I still got a 3. I wrote a book for the real property question and got a 2 or 3. I think you maybe right that I need to concentrate on completing a good answer. The problem is I don't think I could identify a good answer if my life depended on it. I studied, and did a lot of MBE question from Adaptibar but still I had no success. I don't seem to be putting together what I know down on "paper". I'm putting down information...even in the right format (IRAC) but apparently not what the graders want. What source do you suggest for questions and answers? I need to figure out how to put down what the graders want, not I feel like I know.

One issue I feel like I have is, during the test, I read the question once or twice at the most and assuming I think I know something about the subject I take off like a shot and begin writing. My typing is a bit slow but my hand writing is so sloppy this is the best option. I finish right on time (30 minutes per question) but I don't think my black letter law and analysis is correct or comprehensive. Suggestions?


Thanks! I took the Texas Bar exam and they post past questions and answers to the website. I went back to the 2005 Feb test and worked each question for every test (Until Feb 2016)
I also used Adaptibar. Their mobile app allowed me to get a few questions in before work, at lunch, and on break.

I was given the advice that the graders know the law, so you don't have to repeat it for them. I changed this:

According to the facts, Bob and Sue are married. They bought the Whiteacre property during the marriage in 2008. Texas law classifies property that is acquired after marriage is presumed to be community property. In accordance to Texas law, each spouse is entitled to a 50% undivided interest in all community property. Therefore, both Bob and Sue each own an undivided 50% interest...

To this:

Since Bob and Sue bought Whiteacre during their marriage, Whiteacre is assumed to be community property and each spouse is entitled to an undivided 50% interest.

It's not about proving how much you know. Just get to the point. If you start practicing condensing issue spotting with the law, you will get much faster and you more likely will hit all the issues. The first two exams I took, I wasted time stating law. Though my law was right, I missed valuable points for smaller issues.



That's interesting... I can see how that would help me save time.




wow, this is totally different from what I was taught.

According to the facts, Bob and Sue are married. They bought the Whiteacre property during the marriage in 2008. Texas law classifies property that is acquired after marriage is presumed to be community property. In accordance to Texas law, each spouse is entitled to a 50% undivided interest in all community property. Therefore, both Bob and Sue each own an undivided 50% interest...

To this:

Since Bob and Sue bought Whiteacre during their marriage, Whiteacre is assumed to be community property and each spouse is entitled to an undivided 50% interest.

It's not about proving how much you know. Just get to the point. If you start practicing condensing issue spotting with the law, you will get much faster and you more likely will hit all the issues. The first two exams I took, I wasted time stating law. Though my law was right, I missed valuable points for smaller issues.[/quote]

I was taught to write the full rule (like the first example) above...I hope I didn't do bad again this time :x
I did like the second example in my first exam...and was told that's where I lost a lot of points

blaze1306

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Re: Two Time Loser Study Tips

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:17 am

blaze1306 wrote:I am looking for a UBE study partner. I anticipate beginning to study again for the July exam next week.



Ok so I got a little more information on my Feb exam and this is why I need a study partner. It is apparent I have NO IDEA WHAT I AM DOING!

Scale 1-6
MEE 1: Contracts-3
MEE 2: Trust and Future Interest-2
MEE 3: Family Law and Conflicts of Law-3
MEE 4: Corporations-3
MEE 5: Agency-5
MEE 6: Real Property-2

I am still waiting on my actual answers and representative answers from the bar...I am at a loss.



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