July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - Results Are Here!!!

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bda

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby bda » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:22 am

I’m going crazy.

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Manteca

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Manteca » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:50 am

bda wrote:I’m going crazy.


God, I had a dream about failing the bar last night. It was miserable

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de minimis

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby de minimis » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:11 pm

pain

annaedwards

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby annaedwards » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:21 pm

I'm so anxious. Trying not to think about it. But my barexam prep books in the corner, collecting dust and in my peripheral vision do not help.

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Sprout

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Sprout » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:56 pm

I have reoccurring dreams about this among other work related / bar exam disasters and wake up in a cold sweat thanking god Im in my bed and that wasn't real

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby RustEShackleford » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:15 pm

Sprout wrote:I have reoccurring dreams about this among other work related / bar exam disasters and wake up in a cold sweat thanking god Im in my bed and that wasn't real


Same here. Almost every other night with the anxiety dreams. Can someone just tag me with that haldol and let me be in a coma until the scores come out?

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bda

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby bda » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:32 pm

Does anybody know exactly how grading works? I.e., are we graded solely against other NY takers or against all UBE takers?

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby myrtlewinston » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:16 pm

Taking the MPRE on Nov 4.Don’t want to know my results. Might mess with my head.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby thinkingoutloud3015 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:23 pm

RustEShackleford wrote:
Sprout wrote:I have reoccurring dreams about this among other work related / bar exam disasters and wake up in a cold sweat thanking god Im in my bed and that wasn't real


Same here. Almost every other night with the anxiety dreams. Can someone just tag me with that haldol and let me be in a coma until the scores come out?


Agreed!

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Sprout

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Sprout » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:30 pm

bda wrote:Does anybody know exactly how grading works? I.e., are we graded solely against other NY takers or against all UBE takers?

Guessing, but I think just NY? totally unsure and also very interested in this

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CardozoLaw09

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:37 pm

myrtlewinston wrote:Taking the MPRE on Nov 4.Don’t want to know my results. Might mess with my head.


Damn, that's rough.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby squiggle » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:09 pm

Sprout wrote:
bda wrote:Does anybody know exactly how grading works? I.e., are we graded solely against other NY takers or against all UBE takers?

Guessing, but I think just NY? totally unsure and also very interested in this


Your MBE is graded by NCBE and curved nationally against ALL MBE takers, not just those in UBE states. Each state grades their own MPTs and MEEs, so these portions will be graded against other NY examinees.

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bda

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby bda » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:28 pm

squiggle wrote:
Sprout wrote:
bda wrote:Does anybody know exactly how grading works? I.e., are we graded solely against other NY takers or against all UBE takers?

Guessing, but I think just NY? totally unsure and also very interested in this


Your MBE is graded by NCBE and curved nationally against ALL MBE takers, not just those in UBE states. Each state grades their own MPTs and MEEs, so these portions will be graded against other NY examinees.


Thank you!

Just kind of pondering if there would have been any advantage to taking the UBE in a quote, unquote easier state and waiving in.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Toubro » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:22 pm

bda wrote:
squiggle wrote:
Sprout wrote:
bda wrote:Does anybody know exactly how grading works? I.e., are we graded solely against other NY takers or against all UBE takers?

Guessing, but I think just NY? totally unsure and also very interested in this


Your MBE is graded by NCBE and curved nationally against ALL MBE takers, not just those in UBE states. Each state grades their own MPTs and MEEs, so these portions will be graded against other NY examinees.


Thank you!

Just kind of pondering if there would have been any advantage to taking the UBE in a quote, unquote easier state and waiving in.


To clarify, the MBE is not curved against ALL MBE takers for July '17 -- it's scaled to produce the same score regardless of the group of test takers in any one given administration. Your MBE score taking the July 17 exam in Albany should, in theory, be the same score you would have received taking the MBE in the Boise La Quinta Express in 1992.

Also, the MBE and MPT/MEE are more linked than you would think, bc in a UBE state the MPT/MEE score has to be adjusted so that it has the same distribution the MBE had in that particular administration.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby myrtlewinston » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:38 pm

CardozoLaw09 wrote:
myrtlewinston wrote:Taking the MPRE on Nov 4.Don’t want to know my results. Might mess with my head.


Damn, that's rough.


I put an auto-delete filter on emails from BOLE.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby squiggle » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:58 pm

Toubro wrote:
bda wrote:
squiggle wrote:
Sprout wrote:
bda wrote:Does anybody know exactly how grading works? I.e., are we graded solely against other NY takers or against all UBE takers?

Guessing, but I think just NY? totally unsure and also very interested in this


Your MBE is graded by NCBE and curved nationally against ALL MBE takers, not just those in UBE states. Each state grades their own MPTs and MEEs, so these portions will be graded against other NY examinees.


Thank you!

Just kind of pondering if there would have been any advantage to taking the UBE in a quote, unquote easier state and waiving in.


To clarify, the MBE is not curved against ALL MBE takers for July '17 -- it's scaled to produce the same score regardless of the group of test takers in any one given administration. Your MBE score taking the July 17 exam in Albany should, in theory, be the same score you would have received taking the MBE in the Boise La Quinta Express in 1992.

Also, the MBE and MPT/MEE are more linked than you would think, bc in a UBE state the MPT/MEE score has to be adjusted so that it has the same distribution the MBE had in that particular administration.


Though the MPT/MEE scores are adjusted, I'm not sure it's in relation to MBE distribution in that state. I haven't come across info about how specifically the MPT/MEE is scaled in relation to the MBE scores in a given state, and I've looked into MPT/MEE grading. Also, this adjustment would not ensure consistency of grading across states. For example, someone with the same quality MPT and MEE answers might receive a higher MPT/MEE score in one jurisdiction than another.

It is up to the states to decide and carry out grading policies and procedures. States also set the procedure for when and how they review answers of those who nearly passed after the initial grading. The grading practices vary across UBE states. I know people who have decided to sit in another UBE state because of concerns about a state's grading.

The "distribution" adjustment would also effect those in smaller jurisdictions, say Alaska or North Dakota, more than those states with a large applicant pool, like NY. I'm unclear if/how NCBE takes a state's minimum passing score into account when adjusting. Maybe you know. If so, can you share your source?

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Toubro

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Toubro » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:44 am

squiggle wrote:
Though the MPT/MEE scores are adjusted, I'm not sure it's in relation to MBE distribution in that state. I haven't come across info about how specifically the MPT/MEE is scaled in relation to the MBE scores in a given state, and I've looked into MPT/MEE grading. Also, this adjustment would not ensure consistency of grading across states. For example, someone with the same quality MPT and MEE answers might receive a higher MPT/MEE score in one jurisdiction than another.

It is up to the states to decide and carry out grading policies and procedures. States also set the procedure for when and how they review answers of those who nearly passed after the initial grading. The grading practices vary across UBE states. I know people who have decided to sit in another UBE state because of concerns about a state's grading.

The "distribution" adjustment would also effect those in smaller jurisdictions, say Alaska or North Dakota, more than those states with a large applicant pool, like NY. I'm unclear if/how NCBE takes a state's minimum passing score into account when adjusting. Maybe you know. If so, can you share your source?


Sure, here's the source: https://www.seperac.com/pdf/740205_testing.pdf

I don't think NCBE's scaling would be affected by the state's minimum scores. You can't guarantee consistency of grading across states without near perfect / identical graders, but there's nothing about scaling to the MBE per se that prevents uniformity. Scaling to the MBE is a step towards reducing the noise generated by variegated essay grading. And yes, it's true as you point out that this means that someone with the same quality MPT and MEE answers might receive a higher MPT/MEE score in one jurisdiction than another.

Your criticism might be valid, and the article may be dated with respect to the tools used, but MPT/MEE's being scaled to the MBE isn't controversial in the least. It's been all over TLS and the Bar Examiner.
Last edited by Toubro on Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby thisismyname10221010 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:52 am

Granted there are a ton of factors that may influence the release of scores - the number of test takers and format changes, to name a couple. And, of course, the sample size of nine years is small. But, based on that data, scores have been released on either Tuesday (once) and Wednesday (three times) in odd years. Is it too optimistic that they are released tomorrow night, especially since every couple of years the release day is earlier than the prior ones? During the past three years, they released scores on either Oct. 27 or 28. :( :cry:

For even years, it is a bit more mixed with one on a Tuesday and Thursday, and the rest a Friday.
Link: https://www.excellenceinlawschool.com/will-july-2017-new-york-bar-exam-results-released/

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby squiggle » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:56 am

Toubro wrote:
squiggle wrote:
Though the MPT/MEE scores are adjusted, I'm not sure it's in relation to MBE distribution in that state. I haven't come across info about how specifically the MPT/MEE is scaled in relation to the MBE scores in a given state, and I've looked into MPT/MEE grading. Also, this adjustment would not ensure consistency of grading across states. For example, someone with the same quality MPT and MEE answers might receive a higher MPT/MEE score in one jurisdiction than another.

It is up to the states to decide and carry out grading policies and procedures. States also set the procedure for when and how they review answers of those who nearly passed after the initial grading. The grading practices vary across UBE states. I know people who have decided to sit in another UBE state because of concerns about a state's grading.

The "distribution" adjustment would also effect those in smaller jurisdictions, say Alaska or North Dakota, more than those states with a large applicant pool, like NY. I'm unclear if/how NCBE takes a state's minimum passing score into account when adjusting. Maybe you know. If so, can you share your source?


Sure, here's the source: https://www.seperac.com/pdf/740205_testing.pdf

I don't think NCBE's scaling would be affected by the state's minimum scores. You can't guarantee consistency of grading across states without near perfect / identical graders, but there's nothing about scaling to the MBE per se that prevents uniformity. Scaling to the MBE is a step towards reducing the noise generated by variegated essay grading. And yes, it's true as you point out that this means that someone with the same quality MPT and MEE answers might receive a higher MPT/MEE score in one jurisdiction than another.

Your criticism might be valid, and the article may be dated with respect to the tools used, but MPT/MEE's being scaled to the MBE isn't controversial in the least. It's been all over TLS and the Bar Examiner.


I agree that it's not controversial, but it's notable. I was responding in part to the question above asking about "any advantage to taking the UBE in a quote, unquote easier state and waiving in." I wanted to make them aware that grading varies across states, which may or may not be influenced by the size of the jurisdiction. I say this as someone who has taken the bar in three different states. Thanks for a thoughtful discussion.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby S.as.in.Snake » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:52 am

So real talk, what are the odds they would come out tonight? Or do we really think it will take until Wednesday night going into Thursday morning? I know OH, VA, GA, and maybe TX are all coming out Friday during the day so I thought NY might want to be ahead of them haha.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Estecontre » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:56 am

S.as.in.Snake wrote:So real talk, what are the odds they would come out tonight? Or do we really think it will take until Wednesday night going into Thursday morning? I know OH, VA, GA, and maybe TX are all coming out Friday during the day so I thought NY might want to be ahead of them haha.


I doubt Texas will be coming out this Friday. BLE has it for next week and they're pretty good about following through with that. Usually only comes out a day earlier than they say.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby thinkingoutloud3015 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:18 am

S.as.in.Snake wrote:So real talk, what are the odds they would come out tonight? Or do we really think it will take until Wednesday night going into Thursday morning? I know OH, VA, GA, and maybe TX are all coming out Friday during the day so I thought NY might want to be ahead of them haha.
thisismyname10221010 wrote:Granted there are a ton of factors that may influence the release of scores - the number of test takers and format changes, to name a couple. And, of course, the sample size of nine years is small. But, based on that data, scores have been released on either Tuesday (once) and Wednesday (three times) in odd years. Is it too optimistic that they are released tomorrow night, especially since every couple of years the release day is earlier than the prior ones? During the past three years, they released scores on either Oct. 27 or 28. :( :cry:

For even years, it is a bit more mixed with one on a Tuesday and Thursday, and the rest a Friday.
Link: https://www.excellenceinlawschool.com/will-july-2017-new-york-bar-exam-results-released/


Here's to hoping today or tomorrow.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby Uncle T » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:30 pm

Although I'm leaning towards tonight/tomorrow, a co-worker received a call that she needed to send an alternate affidavit and asked about the release dates. Person on the phone suggested that it would likely be released this Friday.

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby RustEShackleford » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:46 pm

Uncle T wrote:Although I'm leaning towards tonight/tomorrow, a co-worker received a call that she needed to send an alternate affidavit and asked about the release dates. Person on the phone suggested that it would likely be released this Friday.


Interesting, can anyone else confirm with a phone call?

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runthetrap1990

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Re: July 2017 NY Bar Hangout Thread - The Wait Continues

Postby runthetrap1990 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:22 pm

I'm sitting at work alternating between resigned calmness and intense butterflies in my stomach. It is getting to be too much lol.



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