Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

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linkx13

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Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby linkx13 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:30 pm

Hi all, checking in!

Already certain I'll be working full time. Taking NY with Barbri. Starting to do some minor prep now.

Blackhawks_Fan

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby Blackhawks_Fan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:24 pm

Hello there. Same, working full time although using Themis - have started some studying. Currently on contracts.

Anoni-mous

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby Anoni-mous » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 am

It sucks... I took the bar July 2016, worked 40 hour weeks, and failed by 13 points. Took two months off for Feb. 2017 and felt much better about the test. Devote every second that you can to studying... you can't take a single day off. Even then, you''ll still be behind the 8 ball on test day. It's possible to pass, just know your obstacle and study smart.

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CAnow

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby CAnow » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Checking in... Taking California, and I'll be working full-time up until the bar exam as well.

So what is everybody's study strategy, given our restrictive schedules? I'm trying to get into a rhythm of taking practice MBEs and essays every day. I also haven't decided yet whether I will take a bar review course or do self-study.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby 9xSound » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:38 pm

I worked full time and passed. It is not easy. I would suggest a few things:

1. Use Adaptibar. Do 200 mixed problems. Stop. Print your wrong answers and review them, hand-writing the rules that you missed in the white space. Do the next 200 problems, stop, print and repeat. After reviewing this round, go back and re-review your wrong answers from the first 200 again. With every new batch of 200 problems, repeat the process of writing out what you got wrong in the white space, and then re-review all of your previous incorrect answers. Shoot for 1,000 problems at least. You'll probably end up with 300 or more wrong answers that you'll be re-reviewing multiple times. This process is tedious, but you will become intimately familiar with those 300+ incorrect problems, and you will gain more from doing 1000 MBEs than you'd get from burning your way through 3000 problems — which you aren't going to be able to do working full time anyway. You'll find that you don't have to re-read the facts. All you'll need to read is your handwritten rules. The night before the MBE, re-review all of your wrong answers once again.

2. Don't bother trying to memorize the rules until three weeks before the bar. It's a waste. Focus on understanding the concepts and learning how to write about the significance of the facts.

3. Study every single day, before work, after work, and weekends/days off. Study at lunch. If you need to take a break, it had better be for the bathroom, and take some flashcards or an outline with you. Remind yourself that not passing is the one of the worst things you will ever experience in life except a death in the family or getting dumped. Failing the bar is just like getting dumped — but you're in front of the whole world when it happens. If you really need a break, drink a beer while you read your outline. Then get your ass back to work.

4. Avoid the temptation to dwell on how unfair it is that you have to work. Channel your energy toward beating the exam. Nobody gives a rip that you have to work anyway, especially not the graders. Go to your job when you have to, but become a machine about your prep the rest of the time.

5. If you get feedback from a bar prep company or a tutor on your practice essays, don't just read it and move on to the next practice exam. Rewrite your essay to incorporate that feedback. Focus on nailing that particular essay. You don't have the time to write hundreds of essays. Like the MBEs, you need to make every single thing you do count. With your limited amount of time, you will get more mileage from rewriting the same essay using the feedback as to what you did wrong than you'll get from turning and burning one more essay. Do as many as you can, of course. But you can't afford to flush what you just learned. And when you've fine-tuned your essays more or less into model answers, save them. Re-review them regularly, just like the MBEs. It works.

6. Try to take at least 2 weeks off work before the bar if you can. Take as much time as you can possibly get and spend those last few weeks memorizing the rules so that they're relatively fresh at show time. Keep doing MBEs. Don't bother writing over the last two weeks. Rote memorization and MBEs are all you should do.

Preparing while working is very difficult, but it isn't impossible. I did it and I passed. Focus on quality, not quantity, and you'll have a shot at passing.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby ConfusedL1 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:48 pm

9xSound wrote:I worked full time and passed. It is not easy. I would suggest a few things:

1. Use Adaptibar. Do 200 mixed problems. Stop. Print your wrong answers and review them, hand-writing the rules that you missed in the white space. Do the next 200 problems, stop, print and repeat. After reviewing this round, go back and re-review your wrong answers from the first 200 again. With every new batch of 200 problems, repeat the process of writing out what you got wrong in the white space, and then re-review all of your previous incorrect answers. Shoot for 1,000 problems at least. You'll probably end up with 300 or more wrong answers that you'll be re-reviewing multiple times. This process is tedious, but you will become intimately familiar with those 300+ incorrect problems, and you will gain more from doing 1000 MBEs than you'd get from burning your way through 3000 problems — which you aren't going to be able to do working full time anyway. You'll find that you don't have to re-read the facts. All you'll need to read is your handwritten rules. The night before the MBE, re-review all of your wrong answers once again.

2. Don't bother trying to memorize the rules until three weeks before the bar. It's a waste. Focus on understanding the concepts and learning how to write about the significance of the facts.

3. Study every single day, before work, after work, and weekends/days off. Study at lunch. If you need to take a break, it had better be for the bathroom, and take some flashcards or an outline with you. Remind yourself that not passing is the one of the worst things you will ever experience in life except a death in the family or getting dumped. Failing the bar is just like getting dumped — but you're in front of the whole world when it happens. If you really need a break, drink a beer while you read your outline. Then get your ass back to work.

4. Avoid the temptation to dwell on how unfair it is that you have to work. Channel your energy toward beating the exam. Nobody gives a rip that you have to work anyway, especially not the graders. Go to your job when you have to, but become a machine about your prep the rest of the time.

5. If you get feedback from a bar prep company or a tutor on your practice essays, don't just read it and move on to the next practice exam. Rewrite your essay to incorporate that feedback. Focus on nailing that particular essay. You don't have the time to write hundreds of essays. Like the MBEs, you need to make every single thing you do count. With your limited amount of time, you will get more mileage from rewriting the same essay using the feedback as to what you did wrong than you'll get from turning and burning one more essay. Do as many as you can, of course. But you can't afford to flush what you just learned. And when you've fine-tuned your essays more or less into model answers, save them. Re-review them regularly, just like the MBEs. It works.

6. Try to take at least 2 weeks off work before the bar if you can. Take as much time as you can possibly get and spend those last few weeks memorizing the rules so that they're relatively fresh at show time. Keep doing MBEs. Don't bother writing over the last two weeks. Rote memorization and MBEs are all you should do.

Preparing while working is very difficult, but it isn't impossible. I did it and I passed. Focus on quality, not quantity, and you'll have a shot at passing.


Thanks. That's helpful. Some questions:

1. When did you start studying for the bar?

2. How did you breakdown the percentage of the time spent on MBE vs. MPP vs. MEE?

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SilvermanBarPrep

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:04 pm

Excellent advice above. The only place I might skew is to suggest to students (and many of my students are working) to consider taking 1 weekend day off every few weekends. You really have to be careful about burning out. But then, this is a personal decision for each to make!

Sean (Silverman Bar Prep)
http://www.mbetutorial.blogspot.com
Last edited by SilvermanBarPrep on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

9xSound

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby 9xSound » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:58 pm

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:Excellent advise above. The only place I might skew is to suggest to students (and many of my students are working) to consider taking 1 weekend day off every few weekends. You really have to be careful about burning out. But then, this is a personal decision for each to make!

Sean (Silverman Bar Prep)
http://www.mbetutorial.blogspot.com


Perfectly valid point, Sean. Burnout can be counterproductive. Students do need to recognize when they're starting to experience burnout. And if they need to take the morning, evening, or entire day off, I know that they're going to take it, whatever I say. I advise bar candidates who have to work full time not to take any time off to emphasize how important it is to stay focused and make the most of the limited amount of time that they have to prepare. Working candidates are at such a huge disadvantage as it is. Maybe they'll push themselves to stay in the zone just a little bit longer, or take only half a day instead of an entire day. Maybe they won't schedule a day off when it really isn't needed. But it's a fine line, and I completely agree that it is a personal decision for each to make.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby Blackhawks_Fan » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:46 pm

9xSound - thank you for your detailed post, appreciate it.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby rcharter1978 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:29 am

Good advice, but I'm not entirely sure I agree with #3 in its entirety. Not passing the bar sucks big fat monkey balls, but life goes on and its not the end of the world.

Silverman Bar Prep pointed out that you can get burned out if you don't take time out. I also think you can get burned out if you put too much life or death pressure on yourself. That pressure can really crush you, and I think thats part of what got me the first time around.

Take your studies seriously, recognize that you're not in an optimal position if you're working, but try to keep it all in perspective.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby j_syrinate » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:20 pm

Checking In! I'll be self-studying and my schedule while working full-time will be 2-3 hours after work during the week and 6-8 hours per day on Saturday and Sunday. As far as prep material, I still have all my books from the Barbri course (NY Edition pre-UBE), Emanuel's Strategies & Tactics for the MBE, Adaptibar, UBE/MEE Smartbar Essay Prep Outline, and purchased all the MEEs released from 2012-2016. So far I've been studying one topic a week (completed Property, Civ Pro, Con Law, Criminal Law and Procedure and Conflicts of Law), completed about 400 MBE question and have done 4 MEEs. By the end of April I'd like to have a full review completed on each subject. Still trying to figure out the best study strategy from May 1st until the exam.

Good luck everyone!
Last edited by j_syrinate on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby j_syrinate » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:29 pm

ConfusedL1 wrote:
9xSound wrote:I worked full time and passed. It is not easy. I would suggest a few things:

1. Use Adaptibar. Do 200 mixed problems. Stop. Print your wrong answers and review them, hand-writing the rules that you missed in the white space. Do the next 200 problems, stop, print and repeat. After reviewing this round, go back and re-review your wrong answers from the first 200 again. With every new batch of 200 problems, repeat the process of writing out what you got wrong in the white space, and then re-review all of your previous incorrect answers. Shoot for 1,000 problems at least. You'll probably end up with 300 or more wrong answers that you'll be re-reviewing multiple times. This process is tedious, but you will become intimately familiar with those 300+ incorrect problems, and you will gain more from doing 1000 MBEs than you'd get from burning your way through 3000 problems — which you aren't going to be able to do working full time anyway. You'll find that you don't have to re-read the facts. All you'll need to read is your handwritten rules. The night before the MBE, re-review all of your wrong answers once again.

2. Don't bother trying to memorize the rules until three weeks before the bar. It's a waste. Focus on understanding the concepts and learning how to write about the significance of the facts.

3. Study every single day, before work, after work, and weekends/days off. Study at lunch. If you need to take a break, it had better be for the bathroom, and take some flashcards or an outline with you. Remind yourself that not passing is the one of the worst things you will ever experience in life except a death in the family or getting dumped. Failing the bar is just like getting dumped — but you're in front of the whole world when it happens. If you really need a break, drink a beer while you read your outline. Then get your ass back to work.

4. Avoid the temptation to dwell on how unfair it is that you have to work. Channel your energy toward beating the exam. Nobody gives a rip that you have to work anyway, especially not the graders. Go to your job when you have to, but become a machine about your prep the rest of the time.

5. If you get feedback from a bar prep company or a tutor on your practice essays, don't just read it and move on to the next practice exam. Rewrite your essay to incorporate that feedback. Focus on nailing that particular essay. You don't have the time to write hundreds of essays. Like the MBEs, you need to make every single thing you do count. With your limited amount of time, you will get more mileage from rewriting the same essay using the feedback as to what you did wrong than you'll get from turning and burning one more essay. Do as many as you can, of course. But you can't afford to flush what you just learned. And when you've fine-tuned your essays more or less into model answers, save them. Re-review them regularly, just like the MBEs. It works.

6. Try to take at least 2 weeks off work before the bar if you can. Take as much time as you can possibly get and spend those last few weeks memorizing the rules so that they're relatively fresh at show time. Keep doing MBEs. Don't bother writing over the last two weeks. Rote memorization and MBEs are all you should do.

Preparing while working is very difficult, but it isn't impossible. I did it and I passed. Focus on quality, not quantity, and you'll have a shot at passing.


Thanks. That's helpful. Some questions:

1. When did you start studying for the bar?

2. How did you breakdown the percentage of the time spent on MBE vs. MPP vs. MEE?


Overall sound advice, I'll implement your strategy for studying with Adaptibar. Also, I strongly disagree with your number 3 point, that's a one way ticket to a burnout; the only type of kids that I knew in law school that had that mentality were hopped up on Adderrall. The key that I've read is to start extremely early when prepping while working full-time. I started the last week of February and will be studying 2 to 3 hours everyday after work and 6 to 8 hours each day on Saturday and Sunday. The "eat, breathe, sh*t and sleep bar prep mentality" will drive you crazy while trying to maintain of full-time position and study.
Last edited by j_syrinate on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby CordeliasFool » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:35 pm

Checking in -- third time's a charm? I am incredibly lucky to have had a full time job (that I love) since graduating. However, full time job + bar study = no bueno.

I'm doing things very differently this time.

Good luck, y'all.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby 9xSound » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:13 pm

Everybody is going to approach their prep in the way that seems right and best to them, and that's great. But let's talk about burnout. First off, what is it? We talk about burnout as if it's the functional equivalent of a 2000-ton giant redwood crashing into our little mobile home. You're done. It's over, dude. You've reached, God have mercy, Burnout.

As a general concept, I consider burnout to be overblown and sometimes oversold. It's four weeks before the exam and you've been studying your tail off for two months and now you're sick of studying. You're burned out. Now what? Do you completely bail? Fall to pieces? Withdraw from the exam? No. You shut your laptop, close your books and go get drunk, or watch a movie, exercise, whatever. You go do something to recharge and then you get back at it when you're rested. What Sean said is perfectly good advice: take a day every few weekends to rest your head — if you need it.

My point with full-time workers is mathematical. We have to work: they don't. We will start studying early; so will they. While we are at work 40 hours a week, they will be studying for the bar. We will manage to cram in 3-4 hours of study a day, five days a week; they will study 8-12 hours a day, five days a week. We will study 10 hours a day (20 hours) on weekends; they will do the same, or maybe take one day off. We will barely get any rest, except to sleep. They'll get lots of rest and still they'll have twice as much time to prepare. The math is simply an unfortunate reality.

If you manage 4 hours a day x 5 (20 hours), plus 10 weekend hours x 2 (20) = 40 hours a week to prepare, and you're burning the candle at both ends. Yeah, you probably need a break once in a while. But can you afford it?

Non-working students can do 10 hours a day x 5 and watch TV all night (50 hours). They do another 15 hours on the weekend = 65 hours a week, and they're taking Sunday afternoon off. They get more study time, better study time, and they never have to change their focus between bar prep and their job.

You're putting in 40 hours a week at your job. The other 40 hours a week that you're focusing on bar prep amounts to a second job. They're putting in 65 dedicated hours a week and coasting, comparatively. Over a period of two or three months, you can see that "they" will go into the Convention Center with a substantially greater amount of time invested in preparing to blow you out of the water, performance-wise.

The bottom line is that you have to be a realist. You're at a disadvantage from the start and you're up against some stiff competition. During my prep, I studied every day. I didn't take breaks, although I drank a beer now and then. It didn't bother me, though. I liked it. And I knew one thing damned good and well: I wasn't going to fail the second time. I didn't go to law school to be denied the license. The specter of burnout didn't intimidate me. It can't intimidate you, either. This may sound silly, but you have to cultivate a mindset that you are a badass and that you can do anything, including working full time while preparing for the bar. Besides, we're only talking about a few months of dedication to reach a goal. Okay, for a few months, you aren't going to focus on having fun. You're going to focus on kicking that exam's ass down the block.

Don't worry about whether you're going to get burned out. You won't. Study hard. Make use of every possible moment to prepare. If you need a break, take one. But don't take a break just because it's on some schedule if you know you don't need one yet. For you guys who have to work, this is a fight. It isn't fun like "they" get to have. But it can be done.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby ConfusedL1 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:20 pm

9xSound wrote:Everybody is going to approach their prep in the way that seems right and best to them, and that's great. But let's talk about burnout. First off, what is it? We talk about burnout as if it's the functional equivalent of a 2000-ton giant redwood crashing into our little mobile home. You're done. It's over, dude. You've reached, God have mercy, Burnout.

As a general concept, I consider burnout to be overblown and sometimes oversold. It's four weeks before the exam and you've been studying your tail off for two months and now you're sick of studying. You're burned out. Now what? Do you completely bail? Fall to pieces? Withdraw from the exam? No. You shut your laptop, close your books and go get drunk, or watch a movie, exercise, whatever. You go do something to recharge and then you get back at it when you're rested. What Sean said is perfectly good advice: take a day every few weekends to rest your head — if you need it.

My point with full-time workers is mathematical. We have to work: they don't. We will start studying early; so will they. While we are at work 40 hours a week, they will be studying for the bar. We will manage to cram in 3-4 hours of study a day, five days a week; they will study 8-12 hours a day, five days a week. We will study 10 hours a day (20 hours) on weekends; they will do the same, or maybe take one day off. We will barely get any rest, except to sleep. They'll get lots of rest and still they'll have twice as much time to prepare. The math is simply an unfortunate reality.

If you manage 4 hours a day x 5 (20 hours), plus 10 weekend hours x 2 (20) = 40 hours a week to prepare, and you're burning the candle at both ends. Yeah, you probably need a break once in a while. But can you afford it?

Non-working students can do 10 hours a day x 5 and watch TV all night (50 hours). They do another 15 hours on the weekend = 65 hours a week, and they're taking Sunday afternoon off. They get more study time, better study time, and they never have to change their focus between bar prep and their job.

You're putting in 40 hours a week at your job. The other 40 hours a week that you're focusing on bar prep amounts to a second job. They're putting in 65 dedicated hours a week and coasting, comparatively. Over a period of two or three months, you can see that "they" will go into the Convention Center with a substantially greater amount of time invested in preparing to blow you out of the water, performance-wise.

The bottom line is that you have to be a realist. You're at a disadvantage from the start and you're up against some stiff competition. During my prep, I studied every day. I didn't take breaks, although I drank a beer now and then. It didn't bother me, though. I liked it. And I knew one thing damned good and well: I wasn't going to fail the second time. I didn't go to law school to be denied the license. The specter of burnout didn't intimidate me. It can't intimidate you, either. This may sound silly, but you have to cultivate a mindset that you are a badass and that you can do anything, including working full time while preparing for the bar. Besides, we're only talking about a few months of dedication to reach a goal. Okay, for a few months, you aren't going to focus on having fun. You're going to focus on kicking that exam's ass down the block.

Don't worry about whether you're going to get burned out. You won't. Study hard. Make use of every possible moment to prepare. If you need a break, take one. But don't take a break just because it's on some schedule if you know you don't need one yet. For you guys who have to work, this is a fight. It isn't fun like "they" get to have. But it can be done.


Same questions for you:

Thanks. That's helpful. Some questions:

1. When did you start studying for the bar?

2. How did you breakdown the percentage of the time spent on MBE vs. MPP vs. MEE?

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rcharter1978

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby rcharter1978 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:54 am

9xSound wrote:Everybody is going to approach their prep in the way that seems right and best to them, and that's great. But let's talk about burnout. First off, what is it? We talk about burnout as if it's the functional equivalent of a 2000-ton giant redwood crashing into our little mobile home. You're done. It's over, dude. You've reached, God have mercy, Burnout.

As a general concept, I consider burnout to be overblown and sometimes oversold. It's four weeks before the exam and you've been studying your tail off for two months and now you're sick of studying. You're burned out. Now what? Do you completely bail? Fall to pieces? Withdraw from the exam? No. You shut your laptop, close your books and go get drunk, or watch a movie, exercise, whatever. You go do something to recharge and then you get back at it when you're rested. What Sean said is perfectly good advice: take a day every few weekends to rest your head — if you need it.

My point with full-time workers is mathematical. We have to work: they don't. We will start studying early; so will they. While we are at work 40 hours a week, they will be studying for the bar. We will manage to cram in 3-4 hours of study a day, five days a week; they will study 8-12 hours a day, five days a week. We will study 10 hours a day (20 hours) on weekends; they will do the same, or maybe take one day off. We will barely get any rest, except to sleep. They'll get lots of rest and still they'll have twice as much time to prepare. The math is simply an unfortunate reality.

If you manage 4 hours a day x 5 (20 hours), plus 10 weekend hours x 2 (20) = 40 hours a week to prepare, and you're burning the candle at both ends. Yeah, you probably need a break once in a while. But can you afford it?

Non-working students can do 10 hours a day x 5 and watch TV all night (50 hours). They do another 15 hours on the weekend = 65 hours a week, and they're taking Sunday afternoon off. They get more study time, better study time, and they never have to change their focus between bar prep and their job.

You're putting in 40 hours a week at your job. The other 40 hours a week that you're focusing on bar prep amounts to a second job. They're putting in 65 dedicated hours a week and coasting, comparatively. Over a period of two or three months, you can see that "they" will go into the Convention Center with a substantially greater amount of time invested in preparing to blow you out of the water, performance-wise.

The bottom line is that you have to be a realist. You're at a disadvantage from the start and you're up against some stiff competition. During my prep, I studied every day. I didn't take breaks, although I drank a beer now and then. It didn't bother me, though. I liked it. And I knew one thing damned good and well: I wasn't going to fail the second time. I didn't go to law school to be denied the license. The specter of burnout didn't intimidate me. It can't intimidate you, either. This may sound silly, but you have to cultivate a mindset that you are a badass and that you can do anything, including working full time while preparing for the bar. Besides, we're only talking about a few months of dedication to reach a goal. Okay, for a few months, you aren't going to focus on having fun. You're going to focus on kicking that exam's ass down the block.

Don't worry about whether you're going to get burned out. You won't. Study hard. Make use of every possible moment to prepare. If you need a break, take one. But don't take a break just because it's on some schedule if you know you don't need one yet. For you guys who have to work, this is a fight. It isn't fun like "they" get to have. But it can be done.


My burnout crept up on me, and I didn't realize it was so bad until I really took a step back after the exam.


If I had had a plan in place, it might have been a little better.

Yes, you're competing. Yes, you're in a shitty position. However, I probably put in less actual study time the second time around, but it was quality time.

Thats the biggest piece of advice that I could give anyone. Quality studying over everything else. IMO, 2 hours of solid, quality studying > 5 hours of going through the motions.

I'm only saying all of this because you have an excellent point in pointing out that as a full time worker, you'll have to put in more work. But if you're doing quality work, you may not have to put in more time. Myself, under no circumstance could I study for 10 hours in a day.

And I think putting a number on the hours of study encourages people to simply put in time rather than concentrate on doing quality studying.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby 9xSound » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:12 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:My burnout crept up on me, and I didn't realize it was so bad until I really took a step back after the exam.


If I had had a plan in place, it might have been a little better.

Yes, you're competing. Yes, you're in a shitty position. However, I probably put in less actual study time the second time around, but it was quality time.

Thats the biggest piece of advice that I could give anyone. Quality studying over everything else. IMO, 2 hours of solid, quality studying > 5 hours of going through the motions.

I'm only saying all of this because you have an excellent point in pointing out that as a full time worker, you'll have to put in more work. But if you're doing quality work, you may not have to put in more time. Myself, under no circumstance could I study for 10 hours in a day.

And I think putting a number on the hours of study encourages people to simply put in time rather than concentrate on doing quality studying.


Couldn't agree more. When you're working, it's essential to make quality study the top priority. That said, a lot of people studying for the bar will ask, "How do you do that?" Not an easy question to answer. The fact is, it's a mistake to focus on how many hours a day you're studying. The amount of time you spend matters less than the quality of your prep. But you can't waste time, either. Non-working students have a huge advantage over you because of the amount of time that they have. If you want to pass the bar, you need to commit. Dive in and stay focused. That's my point.

@Confused1L, there is no magic answer to your questions. I started lightly studying for the bar before I graduated from law school. When I got my JD, I took a leave of absence and went all in. And failed the effing thing. The instant I got my results (November) I went straight to my books and started over for February. I studied every day and passed the second time. Just like RCharter, I had less time to study the second time because I had to work full time, but I made the most of my study time on my second trip.

Don't focus on time percentages. Focus on your weak areas. The amount of time I spent or RCharter spent on MBEs versus the rest might not reflect what you need. That's why I don't favor the one size fits all approach to prep. You need to focus on the things that you need to focus on, not necessarily the things I needed to focus on. Only you can decide what those things are.

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virgoyum

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby virgoyum » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:21 pm

Full time worker both times I took the bar and did not pass. If anyone is in the Chicagoland area and interested in forming a group or just having study partner to stay motivated and on task please let me know.

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virgoyum

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby virgoyum » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:45 pm

9xSound wrote:I worked full time and passed. It is not easy. I would suggest a few things:

1. Use Adaptibar. Do 200 mixed problems. Stop. Print your wrong answers and review them, hand-writing the rules that you missed in the white space. Do the next 200 problems, stop, print and repeat. After reviewing this round, go back and re-review your wrong answers from the first 200 again. With every new batch of 200 problems, repeat the process of writing out what you got wrong in the white space, and then re-review all of your previous incorrect answers. Shoot for 1,000 problems at least. You'll probably end up with 300 or more wrong answers that you'll be re-reviewing multiple times. This process is tedious, but you will become intimately familiar with those 300+ incorrect problems, and you will gain more from doing 1000 MBEs than you'd get from burning your way through 3000 problems — which you aren't going to be able to do working full time anyway. You'll find that you don't have to re-read the facts. All you'll need to read is your handwritten rules. The night before the MBE, re-review all of your wrong answers once again.

2. Don't bother trying to memorize the rules until three weeks before the bar. It's a waste. Focus on understanding the concepts and learning how to write about the significance of the facts.

3. Study every single day, before work, after work, and weekends/days off. Study at lunch. If you need to take a break, it had better be for the bathroom, and take some flashcards or an outline with you. Remind yourself that not passing is the one of the worst things you will ever experience in life except a death in the family or getting dumped. Failing the bar is just like getting dumped — but you're in front of the whole world when it happens. If you really need a break, drink a beer while you read your outline. Then get your ass back to work.

4. Avoid the temptation to dwell on how unfair it is that you have to work. Channel your energy toward beating the exam. Nobody gives a rip that you have to work anyway, especially not the graders. Go to your job when you have to, but become a machine about your prep the rest of the time.

5. If you get feedback from a bar prep company or a tutor on your practice essays, don't just read it and move on to the next practice exam. Rewrite your essay to incorporate that feedback. Focus on nailing that particular essay. You don't have the time to write hundreds of essays. Like the MBEs, you need to make every single thing you do count. With your limited amount of time, you will get more mileage from rewriting the same essay using the feedback as to what you did wrong than you'll get from turning and burning one more essay. Do as many as you can, of course. But you can't afford to flush what you just learned. And when you've fine-tuned your essays more or less into model answers, save them. Re-review them regularly, just like the MBEs. It works.

6. Try to take at least 2 weeks off work before the bar if you can. Take as much time as you can possibly get and spend those last few weeks memorizing the rules so that they're relatively fresh at show time. Keep doing MBEs. Don't bother writing over the last two weeks. Rote memorization and MBEs are all you should do.

Preparing while working is very difficult, but it isn't impossible. I did it and I passed. Focus on quality, not quantity, and you'll have a shot at passing.


Did you make a study schedule with topics according to your plan? Would you mind sharing it?

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby 9xSound » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm

There is no magic formula. Study schedules are personal to everybody. On my weaker subjects, like civ pro and evidence, I spent several days doing substantive review, MBEs and writing practice exams before moving on to the next subject. However, I barely touched my real property outline because that was my strongest subject. Focus on your weak areas, but allow yourself an adequate amount of time to absorb each subject, whatever would be adequate for you. And re-review, re-review, re-review.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby virgoyum » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:31 pm

9xSound wrote:There is no magic formula. Study schedules are personal to everybody. On my weaker subjects, like civ pro and evidence, I spent several days doing substantive review, MBEs and writing practice exams before moving on to the next subject. However, I barely touched my real property outline because that was my strongest subject. Focus on your weak areas, but allow yourself an adequate amount of time to absorb each subject, whatever would be adequate for you. And re-review, re-review, re-review.


I agree no magic formula. I've decided I need to absorb each subject on its own then move on to the next after I've mastered one. This means I need to start studying weeks ahead as opposed to crash-coursing it during bar prep. Ultimately, I just need more time to study.

Thanks for the tips. :)

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby ConfusedL1 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:33 am

9xSound wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:My burnout crept up on me, and I didn't realize it was so bad until I really took a step back after the exam.


If I had had a plan in place, it might have been a little better.

Yes, you're competing. Yes, you're in a shitty position. However, I probably put in less actual study time the second time around, but it was quality time.

Thats the biggest piece of advice that I could give anyone. Quality studying over everything else. IMO, 2 hours of solid, quality studying > 5 hours of going through the motions.

I'm only saying all of this because you have an excellent point in pointing out that as a full time worker, you'll have to put in more work. But if you're doing quality work, you may not have to put in more time. Myself, under no circumstance could I study for 10 hours in a day.

And I think putting a number on the hours of study encourages people to simply put in time rather than concentrate on doing quality studying.


Couldn't agree more. When you're working, it's essential to make quality study the top priority. That said, a lot of people studying for the bar will ask, "How do you do that?" Not an easy question to answer. The fact is, it's a mistake to focus on how many hours a day you're studying. The amount of time you spend matters less than the quality of your prep. But you can't waste time, either. Non-working students have a huge advantage over you because of the amount of time that they have. If you want to pass the bar, you need to commit. Dive in and stay focused. That's my point.

@Confused1L, there is no magic answer to your questions. I started lightly studying for the bar before I graduated from law school. When I got my JD, I took a leave of absence and went all in. And failed the effing thing. The instant I got my results (November) I went straight to my books and started over for February. I studied every day and passed the second time. Just like RCharter, I had less time to study the second time because I had to work full time, but I made the most of my study time on my second trip.

Don't focus on time percentages. Focus on your weak areas. The amount of time I spent or RCharter spent on MBEs versus the rest might not reflect what you need. That's why I don't favor the one size fits all approach to prep. You need to focus on the things that you need to focus on, not necessarily the things I needed to focus on. Only you can decide what those things are.


Which bar?

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby 9xSound » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:32 am

CBX

shaq23

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby shaq23 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:46 am

CAnow wrote: I also haven't decided yet whether I will take a bar review course or do self-study.


I highly recommend getting some type of review course. I studied while working full-time and must say. You just don't have the luxury (in terms of time) to figure out what to study or what not to study and "find information" so you can study. You want to have materials in front of you so that when you are stuck you can turn to them and find the answer/rule.

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Re: Full-time worker bar review support group - July 2017

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:19 pm

"re-review, re-review, re-review."

This, stated above, is a really concise way of making an extremely important point. I've been teaching these exams for a while and studying for them is a bit like peeling back an onion. There are layers to the material, and in your first review of a subject do not attempt to understand everything. You'll get the basics which will then allow you to focus on more subtle points in a subsequent reading because you won't be focused on the material you've already learned. The nuances will be understood once some layer above has been learned. And so on.

You just keep re-reviewing these subjects. It's grueling, but it's the key.

Sean (Silverman Bar Prep)
http://www.mbetutorial.blogspot.com



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