March 2017 MPRE Forum

[runthetrap1990]

I find this whole "more difficult" thing hard to buy . . . The MPRE scaled score is the result of statistical equating, which means that the score on any one test needs to be comparable to the score on another test, accounting for varying difficulty. If the test randomly became "more difficult" in March 2017, does that mean an 86 in March isn't the same as an 86 from November 2016?

Even if the test was substantively harder, I think the equating will make it so that the the amount of knowledge/performance required to get any one scaled score would remain the same regardless of which test you took. That's the whole point of equating.

Right. So theoretically, if it is indeed harder, then perhaps a 28-30 out of 50 gets you the 85. But I don't know about that. I thought the exam was very chill and I did it faster than I had ever completed a practice exam. I know for a fact a got a few wrong but the general feeling from others about the exam makes it seem like maybe it was indeed more difficult and I just missed important nuances.

Guess we'll find out soon enough

I walked out of it feeling rather meh. I did about a week of prep, but I still felt beaten up after the exam. During the exam, I did feel like there were more "man this didn't seem to be covered in any of the prep material" moments though; however, I'm not sure how much of that is just on me. All of that said, the exam did not feel markedly harder than any of my practice exams/questions.

Just praying for that pass so I can be at peace.

[Blackhawks_Fan]

I studied for March 2017 using Themis. I thought it was a good course. Actually did a lot of revision, way, way more than most people I know. But, even with all that study, I found the exam so so tough. Doubt I've passed, really tricky exam. Also, how friggin long were the majority of the scenarios?!!! Normally you'll get long scenarios but they follow those with a shortie or two. Not here. No, I had to keep checking the date to see it wasn't April Fools Day. Person next to me didn't even finish, and nobody left during the exam because they finished early which is pretty much unheard of....

[LegalTrooper]

I did all the lectures for two courses and took notes, reviewed and highlighted the lecture handouts, did about three practice tests and probably about 90 practice questions, and still found this VERY challenging. I kept scratching my head. About half of the questions or a little less than half were similar to practice questions I had done, and I did those with ease. The other half, however, were bizarre, tricky, and simply out of the blue. I thought it was really rough. After checking, I know I got about 10 questions wrong for sure in addition to whatever else I got wrong. I checked my answers when I came home and found some of the stuff I didn't know or felt confused about HIDDEN in the long commercial outlines or I realized the trick afterwards. Had an "ah huh" moment - AFTER the test - about stuff that's not written on the rules, but rather implied. I wouldn't be shocked if I have to take it again in August. In fact, I'm expecting that, but I would definitely say they made it harder. However, if they gave me that same test again, I'd do better as I came back and highlighted all the stuff I didn't know from the lectures and the practice questions in the long commercial outlines for Themis and Kaplan.

[Sprout]

I studied for March 2017 using Themis. I thought it was a good course. Actually did a lot of revision, way, way more than most people I know. But, even with all that study, I found the exam so so tough. Doubt I've passed, really tricky exam. Also, how friggin long were the majority of the scenarios?!!! Normally you'll get long scenarios but they follow those with a shortie or two. Not here. No, I had to keep checking the date to see it wasn't April Fools Day. Person next to me didn't even finish, and nobody left during the exam because they finished early which is pretty much unheard of....

Yeah I had never taken it before, but friends had told me that I would have plenty of time (even knowing how shitty I am at mult choice/how slow of a reader I am comparatively) to finish the exam. I think there was one single person that left my testing room early. Everyone else used all the time. It wasn't a small room.

[Toubro]

My guess is that scores will be out on Monday, April 17.

[Sameboat]

That was a ruff test. I felt the questions are getting just like those mbe questions, not quite as brutal but close. I did feel somewhat OK when I left, but not wanting to b cocky just have to wait and see...Did 3 practice tests...should have memorized more about the Musts & May shit

[happyhour1122]

My guess is that scores will be out on Monday, April 17.

I say April 24th
Unless NY bar results come out first.

[Thrive]

I did all the lectures for two courses and took notes, reviewed and highlighted the lecture handouts, did about three practice tests and probably about 90 practice questions, and still found this VERY challenging. I kept scratching my head. About half of the questions or a little less than half were similar to practice questions I had done, and I did those with ease. The other half, however, were bizarre, tricky, and simply out of the blue. I thought it was really rough. After checking, I know I got about 10 questions wrong for sure in addition to whatever else I got wrong. I checked my answers when I came home and found some of the stuff I didn't know or felt confused about HIDDEN in the long commercial outlines or I realized the trick afterwards. Had an "ah huh" moment - AFTER the test - about stuff that's not written on the rules, but rather implied. I wouldn't be shocked if I have to take it again in August. In fact, I'm expecting that, but I would definitely say they made it harder. However, if they gave me that same test again, I'd do better as I came back and highlighted all the stuff I didn't know from the lectures and the practice questions in the long commercial outlines for Themis and Kaplan.

But if you feel like you answered half the exam with ease, why even worry? If true, you'd only have to get what, one-sixth of the other half of the exam right to probably pass?

[Thrive]

I find this whole "more difficult" thing hard to buy . . . The MPRE scaled score is the result of statistical equating, which means that the score on any one test needs to be comparable to the score on another test, accounting for varying difficulty. If the test randomly became "more difficult" in March 2017, does that mean an 86 in March isn't the same as an 86 from November 2016?

Even if the test was substantively harder, I think the equating will make it so that the the amount of knowledge/performance required to get any one scaled score would remain the same regardless of which test you took. That's the whole point of equating.

So, having done further research, it seems like this might be incorrect. It looks like the difficulty in achieving a passing score has increased a bit over the last several years (i.e.., it seems like an 85 was the 25th percentile in 2009 and in 2016, it was around the 32nd percentile).

Weird.

Edit: Actually, doesn't that also imply that the test has objectively gotten easier?

[Toubro]

I find this whole "more difficult" thing hard to buy . . . The MPRE scaled score is the result of statistical equating, which means that the score on any one test needs to be comparable to the score on another test, accounting for varying difficulty. If the test randomly became "more difficult" in March 2017, does that mean an 86 in March isn't the same as an 86 from November 2016?

Even if the test was substantively harder, I think the equating will make it so that the the amount of knowledge/performance required to get any one scaled score would remain the same regardless of which test you took. That's the whole point of equating.

So, having done further research, it seems like this might be incorrect. It looks like the difficulty in achieving a passing score has increased a bit over the last several years (i.e.., it seems like an 85 was the 25th percentile in 2009 and in 2016, it was around the 32nd percentile).

Weird.

Edit: Actually, doesn't that also imply that the test has objectively gotten easier?

It wouldn't matter what the percentiles are. The fact that it was the 32nd percentile in 2016 just means that since 2009 more people have fallen below 85. The test isn't "curved" - it wouldn't matter what the distribution is in any one year or administration. The scaling is done to ensure that test scores are comparable over time.

Now some test scores have an expiry date - Like the SAT score has a soft expiry of 5 years or something. That's because the test makers can't guarantee scaling over that whole period because the test becomes more difficult or easy. But the MPRE doesn't have an inherent expiry date, unless the jurisdiction applies one (NY has a 3 year expiry).

[Toubro]

My guess is that scores will be out on Monday, April 17.

I say April 24th
Unless NY bar results come out first.

Why would the MPRE scores be affected by the NY Bar results?

[Thrive]

I find this whole "more difficult" thing hard to buy . . . The MPRE scaled score is the result of statistical equating, which means that the score on any one test needs to be comparable to the score on another test, accounting for varying difficulty. If the test randomly became "more difficult" in March 2017, does that mean an 86 in March isn't the same as an 86 from November 2016?

Even if the test was substantively harder, I think the equating will make it so that the the amount of knowledge/performance required to get any one scaled score would remain the same regardless of which test you took. That's the whole point of equating.

So, having done further research, it seems like this might be incorrect. It looks like the difficulty in achieving a passing score has increased a bit over the last several years (i.e.., it seems like an 85 was the 25th percentile in 2009 and in 2016, it was around the 32nd percentile).

Weird.

Edit: Actually, doesn't that also imply that the test has objectively gotten easier?

It wouldn't matter what the percentiles are. The fact that it was the 32nd percentile in 2016 just means that since 2009 more people have fallen below 85. The test isn't "curved" - it wouldn't matter what the distribution is in any one year or administration. The scaling is done to ensure that test scores are comparable over time.

Now some test scores have an expiry date - Like the SAT score has a soft expiry of 5 years or something. That's because the test makers can't guarantee scaling over that whole period because the test becomes more difficult or easy. But the MPRE doesn't have an inherent expiry date, unless the jurisdiction applies one (NY has a 3 year expiry).

Interesting. So the knowledge required to score an 85 is the same. And if combined with the apparent increase in raw score to get the 85 (from 53% in 2009 to about 60% in 2013). That means, the test itself has actually gotten relatively easier as compared to previous years (hence the scaling up of raw score) but the reduction in knowledge among test-takers has increased faster than the test has gotten easier?

If true, that's insane.

[happyhour1122]

My guess is that scores will be out on Monday, April 17.

I say April 24th
Unless NY bar results come out first.

Why would the MPRE scores be affected by the NY Bar results?

No idea. just a random date guess without thinking.

[LegalTrooper]

I did all the lectures for two courses and took notes, reviewed and highlighted the lecture handouts, did about three practice tests and probably about 90 practice questions, and still found this VERY challenging. I kept scratching my head. About half of the questions or a little less than half were similar to practice questions I had done, and I did those with ease. The other half, however, were bizarre, tricky, and simply out of the blue. I thought it was really rough. After checking, I know I got about 10 questions wrong for sure in addition to whatever else I got wrong. I checked my answers when I came home and found some of the stuff I didn't know or felt confused about HIDDEN in the long commercial outlines or I realized the trick afterwards. Had an "ah huh" moment - AFTER the test - about stuff that's not written on the rules, but rather implied. I wouldn't be shocked if I have to take it again in August. In fact, I'm expecting that, but I would definitely say they made it harder. However, if they gave me that same test again, I'd do better as I came back and highlighted all the stuff I didn't know from the lectures and the practice questions in the long commercial outlines for Themis and Kaplan.

But if you feel like you answered half the exam with ease, why even worry? If true, you'd only have to get what, one-sixth of the other half of the exam right to probably pass?

That's true! Good logic... assuming I actually got at least 2/3 of that half right and didn't just miss the point. We'll see. I just need an 85. Fingers crossed. Otherwise, August it is... it just sucks to have admission delayed because of the MPRE.

[lolabear727]

I find this whole "more difficult" thing hard to buy . . . The MPRE scaled score is the result of statistical equating, which means that the score on any one test needs to be comparable to the score on another test, accounting for varying difficulty. If the test randomly became "more difficult" in March 2017, does that mean an 86 in March isn't the same as an 86 from November 2016?

Even if the test was substantively harder, I think the equating will make it so that the the amount of knowledge/performance required to get any one scaled score would remain the same regardless of which test you took. That's the whole point of equating.

So, having done further research, it seems like this might be incorrect. It looks like the difficulty in achieving a passing score has increased a bit over the last several years (i.e.., it seems like an 85 was the 25th percentile in 2009 and in 2016, it was around the 32nd percentile).

Weird.

Edit: Actually, doesn't that also imply that the test has objectively gotten easier?

It wouldn't matter what the percentiles are. The fact that it was the 32nd percentile in 2016 just means that since 2009 more people have fallen below 85. The test isn't "curved" - it wouldn't matter what the distribution is in any one year or administration. The scaling is done to ensure that test scores are comparable over time.

Now some test scores have an expiry date - Like the SAT score has a soft expiry of 5 years or something. That's because the test makers can't guarantee scaling over that whole period because the test becomes more difficult or easy. But the MPRE doesn't have an inherent expiry date, unless the jurisdiction applies one (NY has a 3 year expiry).

My exact issue and the reason I'm having to retake... ugh. Thanks NY.

[Toubro]

"March MPRE scores are scheduled to be posted on April 13."

[happyhour1122]

"March MPRE scores are scheduled to be posted on April 13."

OMG thank you!
April 13 is really early!
My life will be filled with exam results this month.
NYLE... april 1st week. MPRE on the 2-3rd week. Bar exam 4th week. sigh...life
I need to pass all...

[Toubro]

"March MPRE scores are scheduled to be posted on April 13."

OMG thank you!
April 13 is really early!
My life will be filled with exam results this month.
NYLE... april 1st week. MPRE on the 2-3rd week. Bar exam 4th week. sigh...life
I need to pass all...

You might get NYLE sooner - last time it was like 5 days after the test.

[Harvard_Naw]

"March MPRE scores are scheduled to be posted on April 13."

OMG thank you!
April 13 is really early!
My life will be filled with exam results this month.
NYLE... april 1st week. MPRE on the 2-3rd week. Bar exam 4th week. sigh...life
I need to pass all...

You might get NYLE sooner - last time it was like 5 days after the test.

Do you know if they notify you by email?

[attorneybill]

DELETED

[Toubro]

"March MPRE scores are scheduled to be posted on April 13."

OMG thank you!
April 13 is really early!
My life will be filled with exam results this month.
NYLE... april 1st week. MPRE on the 2-3rd week. Bar exam 4th week. sigh...life
I need to pass all...

You might get NYLE sooner - last time it was like 5 days after the test.

Do you know if they notify you by email?

Yep, they do

[Blackhawks_Fan]

....

[Blackhawks_Fan]

Nice sunny day out in NY.

[Blackhawks_Fan]

So much so, clearly (accidentally) had to post that twice.

[lolabear727]

Deleted.