2017 July California Bar

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Dee099

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Dee099 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:34 pm

Hi everyone,

Just discovered this place, really great information available on this forum, hoping someone can offer some essay help. The Barbri essay book doesn't really depict sample essays and the published sample essays by the CA Bar are good, but all have diff styles. (Ie: some are heading specific, some have basic headings, etc)

Looking for input on how important headings really are

I like to jump into the question, give a quick basic heading and end up with long blocks of writing. The other issue is, I am doing my exam hand written, so its not easy for me to go back and add headings.

Thanks in advance

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a male human

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:55 pm

Anything to help the human graders with non-employed, soul-sucking, underappreciated job is useful.

I would strongly recommend adding headers whenever you have an issue or sub-issue (element of a rule, exceptions, defenses, etc.). It doesn't have to be a big fancy one (maybe in a PT you might want to), just a signpost that signals that you're about to talk about X. It seems like you're doing that already, so continue doing it.

If you're handwriting (or if you're typing too), it helps to outline the issues and rules on scratch paper first and get a skeleton going. That way, you can start "filling out" the headings in your real answer.

de5igual

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby de5igual » Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:21 pm

3 more weeks :twisted:

any good (and free or low-cost) resources for Civ Pro MBE questions? I went through the adaptibar questions, but the questions there were a bit batshit crazy.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:12 pm

de5igual wrote:3 more weeks :twisted:

any good (and free or low-cost) resources for Civ Pro MBE questions? I went through the adaptibar questions, but the questions there were a bit batshit crazy.

http://www.barprephero.com has 30 free Civ Pro questions last I checked. Apparently they're on the easier side, though.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby ManoloM » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:40 pm

Alt123 wrote:I got a 135/200 on Barbri's simulated MBE (67.5%), but because of California's high cut score and me knowing nothing about how I should translate this to a scaled score, I don't know if I should be happy with my progress or be fucking scared.

Can anyone give me some insight?


For me, the rule of thumb was if you get over 65% you should be good.

omar.comin

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby omar.comin » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:10 pm

I'm finishing a lot of these CA essays in well under an hour... sometimes between 30 to 45 minutes. Is this normal? There are some essays that take me the entire hour (like torts), but for example in PR and Community Property, I'm finishing everything closer to 30/40 mins. My Barbri self-grading shows that I'm generally hitting the issues, though I don't know how different my self-assessment would be from an actual grader's. I also submitted a very short PR essay to Barbri for official grading that I wrote in literally under 25 mins because I didn't know what else to write---scored a 65 lol. Or are some essays just a lot shorter than other essays? I still have a chunk of Barbri essays to go through this month, so maybe we just got easier/shorter essay questions front-loaded..

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Westerdog » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:53 pm

I was told that the Bar turns off wifi in the testing centers. Can anyone confirm? Specifically, the Oakland site. Thanks!

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:56 pm

omar.comin wrote:I'm finishing a lot of these CA essays in well under an hour... sometimes between 30 to 45 minutes. Is this normal? There are some essays that take me the entire hour (like torts), but for example in PR and Community Property, I'm finishing everything closer to 30/40 mins. My Barbri self-grading shows that I'm generally hitting the issues, though I don't know how different my self-assessment would be from an actual grader's. I also submitted a very short PR essay to Barbri for official grading that I wrote in literally under 25 mins because I didn't know what else to write---scored a 65 lol. Or are some essays just a lot shorter than other essays? I still have a chunk of Barbri essays to go through this month, so maybe we just got easier/shorter essay questions front-loaded..


Keep writing. Never stop writing. More can always be written.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby dlrbfl » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:21 pm

Question about Windows 10:

So after I got the email about Windows 10 Creators not being compatible with SoftTest, I checked my new laptop's windows system and it says "Windows 10 Home." I'm assuming this is different from Windows 10 Creator, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, my laptop keeps telling me to upgrade my Windows 10. If I upgrade it, will it just be a better version of Windows 10 Home (so no problem w/ softtest), or should I postpone it until after the exam? It's so annoying b/c the notification keeps popping up and there's no option to silence it.

Thank you!

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby BulletTooth » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:43 pm

omar.comin wrote:I'm finishing a lot of these CA essays in well under an hour... sometimes between 30 to 45 minutes. Is this normal? There are some essays that take me the entire hour (like torts), but for example in PR and Community Property, I'm finishing everything closer to 30/40 mins. My Barbri self-grading shows that I'm generally hitting the issues, though I don't know how different my self-assessment would be from an actual grader's. I also submitted a very short PR essay to Barbri for official grading that I wrote in literally under 25 mins because I didn't know what else to write---scored a 65 lol. Or are some essays just a lot shorter than other essays? I still have a chunk of Barbri essays to go through this month, so maybe we just got easier/shorter essay questions front-loaded..


I've definitely had the feeling that there are some essays that are objectively longer than others. For instance, I've seen evidence ones that have 5-6 subparts, which seem like they would take almost an hour no matter what, and then I've seen some that are fairly straightforward that don't take anywhere near an hour to sufficiently answer. Obviously, as mentioned above, I'm going to try to spend every second I can typing come test day--there's always latent issues, even in the essays that seem obvious.

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:57 pm

BulletTooth wrote:
omar.comin wrote:I'm finishing a lot of these CA essays in well under an hour... sometimes between 30 to 45 minutes. Is this normal? There are some essays that take me the entire hour (like torts), but for example in PR and Community Property, I'm finishing everything closer to 30/40 mins. My Barbri self-grading shows that I'm generally hitting the issues, though I don't know how different my self-assessment would be from an actual grader's. I also submitted a very short PR essay to Barbri for official grading that I wrote in literally under 25 mins because I didn't know what else to write---scored a 65 lol. Or are some essays just a lot shorter than other essays? I still have a chunk of Barbri essays to go through this month, so maybe we just got easier/shorter essay questions front-loaded..


I've definitely had the feeling that there are some essays that are objectively longer than others. For instance, I've seen evidence ones that have 5-6 subparts, which seem like they would take almost an hour no matter what, and then I've seen some that are fairly straightforward that don't take anywhere near an hour to sufficiently answer. Obviously, as mentioned above, I'm going to try to spend every second I can typing come test day--there's always latent issues, even in the essays that seem obvious.


Evidence essays are always going to be the most time consuming. Period. You should be in the habit (and I would suggest as a routine daily or every other day) of writing out rule statements for logical relevance, legal relevance, personal knowledge, and a few hearsay exceptions (switching up the exceptions each time). This way when you get an evidence question, you dont have to think. You just write it out since a few of those issues will for certain be on an evidence essay.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:52 pm

dlrbfl wrote:Question about Windows 10:

So after I got the email about Windows 10 Creators not being compatible with SoftTest, I checked my new laptop's windows system and it says "Windows 10 Home." I'm assuming this is different from Windows 10 Creator, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, my laptop keeps telling me to upgrade my Windows 10. If I upgrade it, will it just be a better version of Windows 10 Home (so no problem w/ softtest), or should I postpone it until after the exam? It's so annoying b/c the notification keeps popping up and there's no option to silence it.

Thank you!


I just went through figuring this out and it was quite a headache.

Windows 10 Creator applies to both Home and Pro editions of Windows 10. So you could still have it.
How to know if you have Creator? Type in "Settings" in your start bar. Click the best match result (the little gear with the text "Settings"). Click System. Then, on the left-hand menu, click "About". Some information about your computer and operating system will be displayed. Look at Version. If the version number is 1703 or higher, you have Windows 10 creator. If it is 16-something or lower, you don't have it.

It is highly likely you have it already, as microsoft started pushing out the update in in April, and if you have a newer computer (past couple of years), there's no reason you wouldn't have received it by now.

I emailed examsoft and they have a fix for it. Basically, you have to run the examsoft software in compatibility mode. Instructions here: http://university.examsoft.com/h/i/3402 ... reators-os

If you don't have Windows 10 creator and you want to avoid downloading it, go to your windows update settings, go to advanced settings, and set a delay for major features updates. (Don't delay any other updates, you want your computer to get security patches and virus definitions!)

If you have spare time or want to vent some anxiety from bar prep on these jerks, send a grumpy email to Examsoft customer service. I sent them a long rant after they told me that fix. For them to realize this is a problem 3 weeks before the bar exam when the Creators update rolled out in April with lots of notice is unacceptable.
Last edited by mcmand on Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

InterAlia1961

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:57 pm

Frustrating day. Bombed two practice PTs. My tutor and I have identified that my problem is poor outlining and organization. I've done four so far, and none of them were passing. So, with just under three weeks to go, I'm back to outlining. My tutor told me to focus on just outlining, because, and this is a direct quote, "It's not doing you any good to spend 90 minutes writing a 'effed up pt." I hate this.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby unitball » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:50 am

Hey all, I have a question about California community property.

Rule: When one spouse makes a gift to a third party of community property without written consent of the other spouse, the non-gifting spouse may set the gift aside in its entirety.

What does setting the gift aside look like in real life? If my wife gives away my motorcycle without my consent, and the person doesn't want to give it back, what does "setting the gift aside" mean in this situation?

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby BulletTooth » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:04 am

unitball wrote:Hey all, I have a question about California community property.

Rule: When one spouse makes a gift to a third party of community property without written consent of the other spouse, the non-gifting spouse may set the gift aside in its entirety.

What does setting the gift aside look like in real life? If my wife gives away my motorcycle without my consent, and the person doesn't want to give it back, what does "setting the gift aside" mean in this situation?


Setting aside the gift means that you get the motorcycle back from the person your wife gave it to--the gift is void. In real life, I imagine that you would file an action for replevin to do this if the person who got the gift wouldn't give it back.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby hdunlop » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:14 am

What does it mean that it's not supported even in compatibility mode? Nothing? I can still roll back on my new laptop and trying to decide if it's worth it

unitball

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby unitball » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:07 am

BulletTooth wrote:
unitball wrote:Hey all, I have a question about California community property.

Rule: When one spouse makes a gift to a third party of community property without written consent of the other spouse, the non-gifting spouse may set the gift aside in its entirety.

What does setting the gift aside look like in real life? If my wife gives away my motorcycle without my consent, and the person doesn't want to give it back, what does "setting the gift aside" mean in this situation?


Setting aside the gift means that you get the motorcycle back from the person your wife gave it to--the gift is void. In real life, I imagine that you would file an action for replevin to do this if the person who got the gift wouldn't give it back.


Thanks!

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:12 am

mcmand wrote:
dlrbfl wrote:Question about Windows 10:

So after I got the email about Windows 10 Creators not being compatible with SoftTest, I checked my new laptop's windows system and it says "Windows 10 Home." I'm assuming this is different from Windows 10 Creator, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, my laptop keeps telling me to upgrade my Windows 10. If I upgrade it, will it just be a better version of Windows 10 Home (so no problem w/ softtest), or should I postpone it until after the exam? It's so annoying b/c the notification keeps popping up and there's no option to silence it.

Thank you!


I just went through figuring this out and it was quite a headache.

Windows 10 Creator applies to both Home and Pro editions of Windows 10. So you could still have it.
How to know if you have Creator? Type in "Settings" in your start bar. Click the best match result (the little gear with the text "Settings"). Click System. Then, on the left-hand menu, click "About". Some information about your computer and operating system will be displayed. Look at Version. If the version number is 1703 or higher, you have Windows 10 creator. If it is 16-something or lower, you don't have it.

It is highly likely you have it already, as microsoft started pushing out the update in in April, and if you have a newer computer (past couple of years), there's no reason you wouldn't have received it by now.

I emailed examsoft and they have a fix for it. Basically, you have to run the examsoft software in compatibility mode. Instructions here: http://university.examsoft.com/h/i/3402 ... reators-os

If you don't have Windows 10 creator and you want to avoid downloading it, go to your windows update settings, go to advanced settings, and set a delay for major features updates. (Don't delay any other updates, you want your computer to get security patches and virus definitions!)

If you have spare time or want to vent some anxiety from bar prep on these jerks, send a grumpy email to Examsoft customer service. I sent them a long rant after they told me that fix. For them to realize this is a problem 3 weeks before the bar exam when the Creators update rolled out in April with lots of notice is unacceptable.

Thank you for posting this. If this workaround works, this will help people who want to keep using their preferred laptop.

InterAlia1961

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:59 am

a male human wrote:
mcmand wrote:
dlrbfl wrote:Question about Windows 10:

So after I got the email about Windows 10 Creators not being compatible with SoftTest, I checked my new laptop's windows system and it says "Windows 10 Home." I'm assuming this is different from Windows 10 Creator, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, my laptop keeps telling me to upgrade my Windows 10. If I upgrade it, will it just be a better version of Windows 10 Home (so no problem w/ softtest), or should I postpone it until after the exam? It's so annoying b/c the notification keeps popping up and there's no option to silence it.

Thank you!


I just went through figuring this out and it was quite a headache.

Windows 10 Creator applies to both Home and Pro editions of Windows 10. So you could still have it.
How to know if you have Creator? Type in "Settings" in your start bar. Click the best match result (the little gear with the text "Settings"). Click System. Then, on the left-hand menu, click "About". Some information about your computer and operating system will be displayed. Look at Version. If the version number is 1703 or higher, you have Windows 10 creator. If it is 16-something or lower, you don't have it.

It is highly likely you have it already, as microsoft started pushing out the update in in April, and if you have a newer computer (past couple of years), there's no reason you wouldn't have received it by now.

I emailed examsoft and they have a fix for it. Basically, you have to run the examsoft software in compatibility mode. Instructions here: http://university.examsoft.com/h/i/3402 ... reators-os

If you don't have Windows 10 creator and you want to avoid downloading it, go to your windows update settings, go to advanced settings, and set a delay for major features updates. (Don't delay any other updates, you want your computer to get security patches and virus definitions!)

If you have spare time or want to vent some anxiety from bar prep on these jerks, send a grumpy email to Examsoft customer service. I sent them a long rant after they told me that fix. For them to realize this is a problem 3 weeks before the bar exam when the Creators update rolled out in April with lots of notice is unacceptable.

Thank you for posting this. If this workaround works, this will help people who want to keep using their preferred laptop.


Of course, ExamSoft could just provide a working product. But, since Microsoft can get away with delivering bug-filled software to unsuspecting users, I suppose there's no right to expect more from any other software provider.

mcmand

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:57 am

hdunlop wrote:What does it mean that it's not supported even in compatibility mode? Nothing? I can still roll back on my new laptop and trying to decide if it's worth it


Who knows. Maybe it's their way of covering their ass if examsoft crashes and you sue them.

Rolling back can't hurt, other than the aggravation of reinstalling.
Last edited by mcmand on Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

omar.comin

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby omar.comin » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:20 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
omar.comin wrote:I'm finishing a lot of these CA essays in well under an hour... sometimes between 30 to 45 minutes. Is this normal? There are some essays that take me the entire hour (like torts), but for example in PR and Community Property, I'm finishing everything closer to 30/40 mins. My Barbri self-grading shows that I'm generally hitting the issues, though I don't know how different my self-assessment would be from an actual grader's. I also submitted a very short PR essay to Barbri for official grading that I wrote in literally under 25 mins because I didn't know what else to write---scored a 65 lol. Or are some essays just a lot shorter than other essays? I still have a chunk of Barbri essays to go through this month, so maybe we just got easier/shorter essay questions front-loaded..


Keep writing. Never stop writing. More can always be written.


Actually my fear is that if I keep writing, I'll betray my lack of understanding of the law... at a certain point, won't it actually hurt to keep writing? Because I'll probably be making up bad law lol

And I'm not sure how much other people are writing, but when I finish some of these essays in under half an hour, they're generally 800-1000 words. Those that take me an hour (like a huge torts issue spotter) are 1500-2000. PR, CP, and generally most essays are probably under 1200 (sometimes well under). Is that normal?

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:57 pm

omar.comin wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
omar.comin wrote:I'm finishing a lot of these CA essays in well under an hour... sometimes between 30 to 45 minutes. Is this normal? There are some essays that take me the entire hour (like torts), but for example in PR and Community Property, I'm finishing everything closer to 30/40 mins. My Barbri self-grading shows that I'm generally hitting the issues, though I don't know how different my self-assessment would be from an actual grader's. I also submitted a very short PR essay to Barbri for official grading that I wrote in literally under 25 mins because I didn't know what else to write---scored a 65 lol. Or are some essays just a lot shorter than other essays? I still have a chunk of Barbri essays to go through this month, so maybe we just got easier/shorter essay questions front-loaded..


Keep writing. Never stop writing. More can always be written.


Actually my fear is that if I keep writing, I'll betray my lack of understanding of the law... at a certain point, won't it actually hurt to keep writing? Because I'll probably be making up bad law lol

And I'm not sure how much other people are writing, but when I finish some of these essays in under half an hour, they're generally 800-1000 words. Those that take me an hour (like a huge torts issue spotter) are 1500-2000. PR, CP, and generally most essays are probably under 1200 (sometimes well under). Is that normal?


Look at bar essays. My understanding is that there is a good correlation between length of essay and score.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:22 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:Frustrating day. Bombed two practice PTs. My tutor and I have identified that my problem is poor outlining and organization. I've done four so far, and none of them were passing. So, with just under three weeks to go, I'm back to outlining. My tutor told me to focus on just outlining, because, and this is a direct quote, "It's not doing you any good to spend 90 minutes writing a 'effed up pt." I hate this.


I know it sucks, but the recommendation makes sense, no? I would bet that connecting the dots is not what you are struggling with if you're not passing your PT's. Rather, it's getting the right framework/outline in place. Responding to the memorandum/instructions is vital. If you are getting off point or writing about irrelevant stuff, then you're sunk.

Therefore, what I did was just open a PT and read the instructions and outline how my answer would look. Maybe take 15-30 minutes (likely less now that the PT's are shorter) to do that, and browse each of the cases to find out under which subheadings they apply. Maybe jot down a rule or two where it would go and then read the model answer. Were you close? Did you identify at least all of the major issues and topics you were required to talk about? This is the meat and potatoes of a PT - not writing endlessly, especially given that the universe is closed. Don't fret, once it clicks it will be tedious but manageable.

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whats an updog

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby whats an updog » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:58 pm

Any advice for studying for PR to a competent level? There just seem to be so many minute details that it's crippling.

8 factors + 3 CA + 1 ABA for weighing whether a fee is reasonable/unconscionable? They all seem the same anyway. My Themis book has about 10 very annoying "exam tips" stating that different areas of PR are "frequently tested."

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby dredd16 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:49 am

whats an updog wrote:Any advice for studying for PR to a competent level? There just seem to be so many minute details that it's crippling.

8 factors + 3 CA + 1 ABA for weighing whether a fee is reasonable/unconscionable? They all seem the same anyway. My Themis book has about 10 very annoying "exam tips" stating that different areas of PR are "frequently tested."


I wouldn't waste my time studying over and over all these 8 factors + 3 CA + 1 ABA just for the reasonable/unconscionable analysis. You're wasting precious time doing that.

Tips:
1. Organize PR essay by specific acts that implicate PR issues (under each act, the duties as issues)
2. Know both mandatory AND permissive withdrawal...they are very different. You don't need to know the fine details regarding the difference, but the two are separate issues that must always be brought up when someone withdraws/attempts to
3. Know every single duty that a lawyer/conflict of interest issues and have a general sense of the rules for each one. Obviously knowing the exact rules are nice, but issue spotting + organization + analysis are the biggest factor on the exam.

So for example, if there was an excessive fee issue, I would organize an essay like this:

Lawyer's Actions Overcharging Client


    Excessive Fees - CA

Under CA law, fees must not be unconscionable. An unconscionable fee is when X, Y, or Z.

Here, the amount that lawyer charged is exactly X. It is exactly Y too because of stuff. And it is also Z. Therefore, the lawyer violated his duty to not subject a client to excessive fees.

Therefore, the lawyer violated his fiduciary duty blah blah.

    Excessive Fees - ABA


Under model rules, fees must not be unconscionable. An unconscionable fee is when X, Y, or Z.

Here, the amount that lawyer charged is exactly X. It is exactly Y too because of stuff. And it is also Z. Therefore, the lawyer violated his duty to not subject a client to excessive fees.

Therefore, the lawyer violated his fiduciary duty blah blah.


Keep in mind that a lawyer's actions could implicate many duties and therefore many issues. Like if someone charges a contingency fee of 60%, that would implicate the issue of excessive fees and also contingency fees. So for the above example, you would just add a sub-heading of Contingency Fee at the top in front of excessive fees. Something like that.



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