2017 July California Bar

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a male human

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:I'm finding myself on the verge of panic. I just completed my MBE review. It took me three weeks. I'm working on the essay subjects now. I can't shake this sinking feeling that I don't know enough. That no matter how hard or how long I study, I can never know enough to to this. I'm trying to pack as much in as possible. I'm particularly worried about a surprise on the essays. I plan to hit Cal Civ Pro and Cal Evidence hard at about two weeks out. I'm wondering if this is a good strategy or not. I'm also worried about business corps. I'm just worried. With only five essays, I expect some crossover subjects. But, there have been essays that appeared to be crossovers in the past, that decidedly weren't. I remember one that was a straight up crim pro question, but many, many people fell down the evidence rabbit hole. I'm also worried that I'm running out of time to stuff enough into my head to pull this off. I'm crazy, right? In need of some serious medicating. I hate this, and yet I keep trying. Where do they keep the happy pills?


I'd try to look at all the essay subjects ahead of time (rather than reserving some for two weeks out). For example, do two-day blocks of each subject through one rotation of them. On the first day, you could study and review the law. On the second day, you could focus on writing essays. Then repeat the cycle, shifting gears toward closed-book and timed practice and outlining.

Not saying it's going to work for you. It's just a different approach you could try. You might get some more ideas on how to schedule and pace yourself here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sNw ... sp=sharing

And you're not "crazy" or the type of person to "panic." Did you graduate law school? If so, you are capable. You're calm, methodical, and deliberate. You're willing to do the hard work and the smart work. This generates the feeling of being calm, competent, and confident. It comes from your own deeds, not from the sky. Take baby steps. If you have no idea how to answer an essay, study the model answer. Try it again. If you still can't do it, retype it until you know how it feels. Stay the course.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby TheLegalOne » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:41 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
TheLegalOne wrote:Any idea on how to practice a 90 minute PT when you are self studying for the CBX? I know there's one provided on the Cal Bar site (I have completed it twice). I can't help but think the 3 hour PTs are now a waste of time (i.e., will not help me with my timing). Are people using the MPTs from other states since they are 90 mins? Otherwise, I don't have study material for it. I think it will be crucial to practice 2 essays and a 90 minute PT several times to get comfortable with the afternoon timing.


The NCBE has posted past 90 minute performance tests that are helpful. Scroll past the summaries. Look at the older ones. There are only 12 pages total in some of them. Here you go: http://www.ncbex.org/exams/mpt/preparing/ Scroll down. You'll see them. The summaries are also useful. Helps to understand what they are looking for.


Thank you! Yes, the summaries are helpful, too.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mightymouse23 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:07 am

If you pass the CA bar, do they tell you what your score was? Either overall or for specific parts of it? Or do you just find out that you passed and thats it? Asking for a friend.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby burner » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:13 am

mightymouse23 wrote:If you pass the CA bar, do they tell you what your score was? Either overall or for specific parts of it? Or do you just find out that you passed and thats it? Asking for a friend.


If you pass, you get a pass letter, that's it (and that's enough!); you'll never find out if you blew the bar out of the water or were in re-read hell and passed by a fraction of a point. If you are not successful, I understand you get your MBE/Essay/PT numerical scores in the mail a couple days after the online results are released, with your actual essays mailed to you in 6-8 weeks.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby dredd16 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:18 pm

mightymouse23 wrote:If you pass the CA bar, do they tell you what your score was? Either overall or for specific parts of it? Or do you just find out that you passed and thats it? Asking for a friend.


If you want to find out any "specifics", the closest you'll get is a score advisory from NCBEX that will tell you if you got higher than 133, 145, and 150 for your weighted MBE score. Of course, you'll have to pony up $25 to get that information.

InterAlia1961

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:56 pm

A Male Human rocks!

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby de5igual » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:39 pm

How accurate do you guys think this calculator is? https://one-timers.com/one-timers-bar-exam-calculator/

They recently updated it to reflect the new 50% mbe format.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:46 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:A Male Human rocks!

Quoting for posterity :D

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Alt123

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Alt123 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:08 am

logical seasoning wrote:Does anyone using Adaptibar and Barbri notice a huge difference in the MBE questions? I feel like Barbri's questions are more prone to "tricks" while Adaptibar's (real NCBE) questions are more straightforward.

Is it just me?


Not just you. I do way better on adaptibar questions...

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby james11 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:02 pm

I am a former repeater who passed a couple years ago. I've been reading about the horribly low pass rates and can imagine that there's a good amount of repeaters taking this upcoming exam. I'm posting below a copy of my previous post, detailing what I did to pass the second time. It was a difficult time in my life but looking back I think I'm a better person for getting through it. I'm sure many of you will feel the same way. My previous post:

I passed. It was my second time. The nightmare is over for me. I've avoided my friends/family for months. I had thoughts of quitting or moving out of state after the first time, but I gritted my teeth and gave it another go. For those of you who were not successful, I encourage you to keep at it. Eventually you will pass.

The first time I did well on the MBE but failed every single essay. My essay scores were 55, 55, 55, 60, 62.5, 55.

I hired a tutor and also heavily used BarEssays.com at the advice of many other posters on this board.

My daily schedule was as follows: wake up, 20 MBEs (I had mbe material from kaplan, barbri, and strategies+tactics), review subject, lunch, practice essay, spend some time and compare my essay to the examples on BarEssays.com, 20 more MBEs and/or more review and/or speak with tutor.

Through this process I realized that I failed every essay the first time for three reasons- 1) my formatting was all wrong. I did not have a good grasp on irac and my review course did not teach this to me; 2) I did not memorize the rule statements enough; 3) I did not hit enough subissues.

The final couple weeks before the bar exam I made flashcards with all the rule statements and memorized like crazy.

I can tell you that failing the bar was worst academic experience of my life but I learned a lot about self discipline and getting through a major set back.

Good luck to all.

Hahalollawl

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Hahalollawl » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:22 pm

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I wanted to ask if anyone has adjusted their approach to the exam since the changes. Would it be smart to focus more on multiple choice/MBE topics, now that they count for 50%? Is it even worth putting much time into the performance test since it's worth so much less?

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby dredd16 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:42 pm

james11 wrote:
Through this process I realized that I failed every essay the first time for three reasons- 1) my formatting was all wrong. I did not have a good grasp on irac and my review course did not teach this to me; 2) I did not memorize the rule statements enough; 3) I did not hit enough subissues.



Looks like these are the exact main reasons why most people don't pass the CA bar. The 2nd and 3rd reasons are essentially extensions of the first reason: People just don't understand how IRAC works on the CA bar.

Let's say there's a two property issues: adverse possession and easements.

A 60 and below essay would format the essay like this:

Issue: Adverse possession

Rule: Possession of the property of another that is (a) exclusive (b) open and notorious, (c) continuous and (d) under claim of right. It can result in the possessor acquiring title to the property if the true owner does not move to evict the possessor before the period of limitations expires.

Analysis: The possession was exclusive because of X fact. Possession was open and notorious because of Y fact. It was continuous because of Z fact. etc etc.

Conclusion: There was adverse possession.

Issue: Easements
Rule:
Analysis:
Conclusion:

This is absolutely the wrong way to format a CA bar essay. The elements of adverse possession are SUB-ISSUES themselves with their own rule elaborations at times. Therefore, they each must have their OWN IRAC.

Having perfect rule statements is not the key to scoring well on an essay. The point is to write rule statements that don't miss out on the sub-issues that you will have to separately IRAC for. If your rule statement lacks an element and thereby you subsequently fail to account for a sub-issue, your essay will fall below 65 if that mistake adds up and you miss multiple subissues.

Check out my tips for essay writing here: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=277682&p=9987596#p9987596

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby burner » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:24 am

InterAlia1961 wrote:A Male Human rocks!

+1

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Alt123

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Alt123 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:29 am

I can't shake the "you're not studying enough" anxiety. But I don't know what's enough. This feels like 1L all over again and I hate that I won't know until I've either passed or failed. I don't know what to do, right now I spend 64 hours studying a week which translates to probably about... 58? hours of ACTUAL STUDYING once breaks and misc. stuff is included. Seems like people are either studying more than me or I get told "don't burn out" but at the same time I'm paranoid about being too worried about burn out and not sucking it up and working even harder.

I don't know. Fuck this shit, man.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:53 pm

Alt123 wrote:I can't shake the "you're not studying enough" anxiety. But I don't know what's enough. This feels like 1L all over again and I hate that I won't know until I've either passed or failed. I don't know what to do, right now I spend 64 hours studying a week which translates to probably about... 58? hours of ACTUAL STUDYING once breaks and misc. stuff is included. Seems like people are either studying more than me or I get told "don't burn out" but at the same time I'm paranoid about being too worried about burn out and not sucking it up and working even harder.

I don't know. Fuck this shit, man.


It sucks. For those of us who have been there, we know how you feel. Rather than give you platitudes, the one point you made that stood out is "I won't know until i've either passed or failed."

Wrong.

This is the one aspect you can change about this process. Find a tutor or use the services of your bar prep provider by getting feedback (or more, if you have already received some) on your work. Write an essay for an hour from the july 2006 essay and submit it for a score. Did you get a 55 (likely, at this point) or 65 or even 70? My big takeaway from receiving 55's from my tutor was (1) why was it a 55 and (2) what needed to change to make it a 65 (or higher).

Take a 100 question MBE practice test (using previously released bar answers). Did you score 62% (likely) or did you score over 70% (where you need to be)? Figure out which subjects your weaknesses are in and grind on those.

By doing something similar to this you get a sense of where you are at, but you also find your weaknesses which gives you motivation to work on those - not trying to study more than everyone else, or hit 9 hours a day or whatever. If you submit 3 essays and you get 65, 65, 70 and score over 70% on MBE's, you're ready. Likely, this is not where you (and a lot of others) are at. By figuring out where you are, you decrease that stress and find out what needs work.

Instead of trying to work long hours, try to do good work regardless of how long it takes.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby DportIA » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:01 pm

First time California bar taker, although passed on first attempt in IL in 2015. Hitting about 75% consistently on BARBRI MBE practice Qs, done about 400 so far. This hasn't really translated to the essays, whereby their rubric I generally fall about a 55-65. Looking forward to the 200Q BARBRI mid-term full-day thing; would love to stay in the high 70s for the real thing and let the essays be only good enough.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby james11 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:35 pm

DportIA wrote:First time California bar taker, although passed on first attempt in IL in 2015. Hitting about 75% consistently on BARBRI MBE practice Qs, done about 400 so far. This hasn't really translated to the essays, whereby their rubric I generally fall about a 55-65. Looking forward to the 200Q BARBRI mid-term full-day thing; would love to stay in the high 70s for the real thing and let the essays be only good enough.


Big mistake. Don't gamble by thinking you can do well enough on the MBE and let the essays slide. I failed by doing that exact same thing (I was scoring 70%+ in practice MBEs).

A "rubric" does not sound like a very accurate way to see if you are doing well on the essays. Do your essays look as good as the real graded essays that scored 65+? Look at these and you'll know if you are on the right track.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:43 pm

james11 wrote:
DportIA wrote:First time California bar taker, although passed on first attempt in IL in 2015. Hitting about 75% consistently on BARBRI MBE practice Qs, done about 400 so far. This hasn't really translated to the essays, whereby their rubric I generally fall about a 55-65. Looking forward to the 200Q BARBRI mid-term full-day thing; would love to stay in the high 70s for the real thing and let the essays be only good enough.


Big mistake. Don't gamble by thinking you can do well enough on the MBE and let the essays slide. I failed by doing that exact same thing (I was scoring 70%+ in practice MBEs).

A "rubric" does not sound like a very accurate way to see if you are doing well on the essays. Do your essays look as good as the real graded essays that scored 65+? Look at these and you'll know if you are on the right track.


Even though the CBX is now weighted 50% MBE, i'd agree with James11's advice only to the extent that essays and the MBE questions compliment each other. While you can't let practice on MBE's fade, you should attack your weakness (e.g., essays) to bolster your exam approach. Yes, it's easier to sit there on the computer and click on MBE questions (even though it is still difficult). Do what is difficult - open up that word doc and write more essays. If you're writing out 2 full essays per day (or 10 per week), you're on track. Just be sure to review your answers and compare them with released answers. Grind it out, get the bar done and then you can relax. It's not that far away.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:46 am

Hahalollawl wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I wanted to ask if anyone has adjusted their approach to the exam since the changes. Would it be smart to focus more on multiple choice/MBE topics, now that they count for 50%? Is it even worth putting much time into the performance test since it's worth so much less?


I think it's smart to put more effort into the mbe. If nothing else mbe practice teaches you the law to put into the essay. It's still and will always be smart to practice for the PT since I think those are just free points. You literally do not have to know the law to do well on a PT. How great is that? And it still can mitigate a shitty essay.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby james11 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:39 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
Hahalollawl wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I wanted to ask if anyone has adjusted their approach to the exam since the changes. Would it be smart to focus more on multiple choice/MBE topics, now that they count for 50%? Is it even worth putting much time into the performance test since it's worth so much less?


I think it's smart to put more effort into the mbe. If nothing else mbe practice teaches you the law to put into the essay. It's still and will always be smart to practice for the PT since I think those are just free points. You literally do not have to know the law to do well on a PT. How great is that? And it still can mitigate a shitty essay.


I do agree that you shouldn't skimp on the MBE. I would say practice between 30-50 MBE questions a day. That being said, the MBE does not help with the essays. The skills to do well on the MBE are different than the essays. You can do very well on the MBE with a good understanding of the law and process of elimination. You must memorize cold the rules needed for the essays and you can't BS or wing it.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby sk1130 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:09 pm

I'm finding all the major issue and almost all minor/sub issues for my essays, but I'm still having a hard time getting the rule statements down like they have them in the model essay answers. Any tips on how to get better on rule statements and general essay outline formats?

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:18 pm

sk1130 wrote:I'm finding all the major issue and almost all minor/sub issues for my essays, but I'm still having a hard time getting the rule statements down like they have them in the model essay answers. Any tips on how to get better on rule statements and general essay outline formats?

Seems like a memorization issue. Keep using the rules, whether you're reciting in your head to memorize (and more importantly, remember), or writing them down and applying them during practice. It helps to understand the rules too, not just rote memorize the words.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:35 pm

james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
Hahalollawl wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I wanted to ask if anyone has adjusted their approach to the exam since the changes. Would it be smart to focus more on multiple choice/MBE topics, now that they count for 50%? Is it even worth putting much time into the performance test since it's worth so much less?


I think it's smart to put more effort into the mbe. If nothing else mbe practice teaches you the law to put into the essay. It's still and will always be smart to practice for the PT since I think those are just free points. You literally do not have to know the law to do well on a PT. How great is that? And it still can mitigate a shitty essay.


I do agree that you shouldn't skimp on the MBE. I would say practice between 30-50 MBE questions a day. That being said, the MBE does not help with the essays. The skills to do well on the MBE are different than the essays. You can do very well on the MBE with a good understanding of the law and process of elimination. You must memorize cold the rules needed for the essays and you can't BS or wing it.


I think the mbe practice does help with the essays because it teaches you those small niches and exceptions that you need to know for the essays.

As for bs'ing or winging it, you can do both on the essays and do so successfully. In fact there are methods for winging it in the event you don't know something. It's not ideal but it's not impossible either.

james11

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby james11 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:22 pm

You cannot BS or wing essays and score 65+. Sorry. Not happening.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby rcharter1978 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:21 am

james11 wrote:You cannot BS or wing essays and score 65+. Sorry. Not happening.


LOL, you actually have no idea what essay score you get when you pass the CA bar. Having had a tutor who was a past bar grader, my impression from him is that it happens more often than you think. And he was the first one to talk to me about how to wing it when I didn't know the law "cold." When a person has like 3 minutes to read your essay do you think they are really going to make sure you have "the law down cold?" or are they just going to make sure it at least sounds like you know the law? This is part of the reason why so much emphasis is put headings and subheadings because a grader is more likely to trust that you know the law if your headings at least look decent.

Now does this mean you don't have to know the law...of course not, because its hard to wing an entire essay....but do you have to "know the law cold." No, and its part of the reason I'm happy I got a tutor who was a past bar grader so that I had a good idea of what was really important versus what people just assume is important.



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