2017 July California Bar

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby rcharter1978 » Tue May 30, 2017 4:19 pm

a male human wrote:
TEIAM wrote:
a male human wrote:A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

I submit it's because people go the "safe" route of doing whatever Barbri, Kaplan, and Themis tell you to do, instead of thinking about it and doing what makes sense for you.


So much this. There are parts of Barbri that worked well, but mindlessly doing Barbri is silly. The program itself encourages you to just get through a task so you can get to the next task. Fill in this blank so you can get to the next blank. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not saying it doesn't work for people, but if you feel it's not working for you...its probably because it isn't working for you.

Also, I'd like to know what % of that 75% didn't strictly adhere to the Barbri plan. Because most people I know didn't finish it or ditched "the plan" pretty early on.

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Guchster

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Guchster » Tue May 30, 2017 4:58 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
a male human wrote:
TEIAM wrote:
a male human wrote:A. "Trust the system"
B. "Trust me"
C. "Trust yourself"
D. None of the above

C is the credited answer.

Trusting yourself is why California has a 43% pass rate

I submit it's because people go the "safe" route of doing whatever Barbri, Kaplan, and Themis tell you to do, instead of thinking about it and doing what makes sense for you.


So much this. There are parts of Barbri that worked well, but mindlessly doing Barbri is silly. The program itself encourages you to just get through a task so you can get to the next task. Fill in this blank so you can get to the next blank. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not saying it doesn't work for people, but if you feel it's not working for you...its probably because it isn't working for you.

Also, I'd like to know what % of that 75% didn't strictly adhere to the Barbri plan. Because most people I know didn't finish it or ditched "the plan" pretty early on.


I think the plan was useful for me, especially early on, when I had absolutely zero idea on how to structure studying for the bar. It was a useful gauge in determining how much substantive knowledge I needed to learn and how much time I needed to be investing in studying for the bar.

The test prep hoard effect also can be re-assuring--if something unexpected pops up on the bar that your bar prep course didn't cover, if the significant majority of people do a similar bar prep, then a significant majority also are probably like WTF? It helps with figuring out how not to stick out like a sore thumb (and for the wrong reasons). Keeping with the herd lessens the odds of being culled from the pack.

As I've mentioned ITT, I took the CA bar several years after having taken and passed the NY Bar. The critical difference was that I was comfortable deviating from the Barbri plan closer to the bar exam. I took the "stay with the herd" too literally when I took the NY Bar. I know I needed more time with torts and con law, and more time to learn NY state subjects, but the plan didn't allow it. It turned out okay in the end, but in hindsight, it would've been more effective and less emotionally stressful to trust my gut.

The second time around when I took CA, I dropped the Barbri plan completely about 1 month to the bar. I know I needed to focus on CA Essays and learning substantive law--I had some MBE knowledge from the NY Bar that made that prep moot. It was completely the right move, and it would've been a big mistake to stick to the Barbri plan blind.

Tl;dr Don't go crazy, try to reinvent the wheel and create your own bar course if you or your firm has paid an absurd amount of money to do a rough template for you. But realize it's just a rough template--feel free to carve it up and tailor it to your own study methods that worked in law school and listen to your intuition when it tells you you're missing something that Barbri isn't giving you.

Also, don't stress if you don't know how to "tailor it" to your own needs yet. As you get closer the bar, you'll know when it's time to deviate from the plan if you haven't already.

rosh1005

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby rosh1005 » Tue May 30, 2017 7:17 pm

Can someone help me understand how shitty i did on the MBES?

Civ Pro 19.7
Con Law 24.6
Contracts 12.8
Crim 17.2
Evidence 32.5
RP 47.7
Torts 27.7

Local 17.1
National 24.5

Scaled MBE 1243.0000

JoeSeperac

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby JoeSeperac » Tue May 30, 2017 8:11 pm

rosh1005 wrote:Can someone help me understand how shitty i did on the MBES?

Civ Pro 19.7
Con Law 24.6
Contracts 12.8
Crim 17.2
Evidence 32.5
RP 47.7
Torts 27.7

Local 17.1
National 24.5

Scaled MBE 1243.0000



Civil Procedure: Based on your percentile of 19.7, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 13/25 correct (52% correct);
Constitutional Law: Based on your percentile of 24.6, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 14/25 correct (56% correct);
Contracts: Based on your percentile of 12.8, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 12/25 correct (48% correct);
Criminal Law: Based on your percentile of 17.2, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 13/25 correct (52% correct);
Evidence: Based on your percentile of 32.5, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 15/25 correct (60% correct);
Real Property: Based on your percentile of 47.7, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 16/25 correct (64% correct);
Torts: Based on your percentile of 27.7, I estimate your raw MBE score to be 14/25 correct (56% correct);

Overall: I estimate your total raw MBE score to be 97/175 correct (55.4% correct)

On the MBE, examinees usually score close to their MBE practice percentage (especially when they have done a large number of questions), so I'm going to estimate that you answered about 50-55% correct in overall MBE practice (please let me know if this is inaccurate).

The national mean MBE for February exams between 1974-2016 is 136.7, so your MBE is pretty low.

If anyone else wants a MBE sub-score estimate, I have a form:
http://seperac.com/subscoreform.php

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logical seasoning

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby logical seasoning » Wed May 31, 2017 12:43 pm

FLASH MBE QUESTION!

If I fail the bar exam by one point, could I succeed in an action against Barbri for having their website down for at least 4 hours, thereby forcing me to be behind in their program? What would be my cause of action?

a. Detrimental reliance
b. quasi contract
c. estoppel
d. nothing would work

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Wed May 31, 2017 1:20 pm

a male human wrote:
changing_names wrote:Anyone have any Real Property suggestions? Just can't seem to get a handle on all of that material. Contracts (in terms of MBE and essays) went pretty smoothly but Real Property has hit me like a brick. I did the Themis lectures and am in the process of making my own flashcards (how I learn) but OMG is there a lot. I knew it would because property was also my worst subject 1L year. I feel like I can get stuck here for weeks trying to master it and still be lost, on everything. That's the problem, not even stuck or not understanding 1 thing, just the entire subject does not feel intuitive. Any tips and tricks? :(

If you're stuck on Real Property or any subject for that matter, try solving problems for that subject instead of theorizing the law. You might be able to get a better handle or intuition on how the principles work when you actually try to apply them, fail to do so, read the MBE explanation or model answer, and try the questions again.


So much of this. Do PROBLEMS and fail at those problems - then learn from your failure. You need to fail more now, and then learn from those failures, prior to stepping foot into that convention hall.

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CAnow

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Wed May 31, 2017 2:36 pm

logical seasoning wrote:FLASH MBE QUESTION!

If I fail the bar exam by one point, could I succeed in an action against Barbri for having their website down for at least 4 hours, thereby forcing me to be behind in their program? What would be my cause of action?

a. Detrimental reliance
b. quasi contract
c. estoppel
d. nothing would work


e. Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress

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cnk1220

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby cnk1220 » Wed May 31, 2017 3:02 pm

logical seasoning wrote:FLASH MBE QUESTION!

If I fail the bar exam by one point, could I succeed in an action against Barbri for having their website down for at least 4 hours, thereby forcing me to be behind in their program? What would be my cause of action?

a. Detrimental reliance
b. quasi contract
c. estoppel
d. nothing would work


e. negligent infliction of emo. distress? lol

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logical seasoning

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby logical seasoning » Wed May 31, 2017 4:03 pm

cnk1220 wrote:
logical seasoning wrote:FLASH MBE QUESTION!

If I fail the bar exam by one point, could I succeed in an action against Barbri for having their website down for at least 4 hours, thereby forcing me to be behind in their program? What would be my cause of action?

a. Detrimental reliance
b. quasi contract
c. estoppel
d. nothing would work


e. negligent infliction of emo. distress? lol


Lol it was down for 5 hours today

InterAlia1961

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Wed May 31, 2017 6:29 pm

logical seasoning wrote:FLASH MBE QUESTION!

If I fail the bar exam by one point, could I succeed in an action against Barbri for having their website down for at least 4 hours, thereby forcing me to be behind in their program? What would be my cause of action?

a. Detrimental reliance
b. quasi contract
c. estoppel
d. nothing would work


Hmmm. I like a breach of implied warranty action. This contract falls under the UCC because it is a contract for the sale of goods--a bar prep course. Of course, there is a solid argument that it is a contract for services, and therefore not governed by the UCC, and we'll discuss that in a moment.

Under the UCC, where the seller is a merchant who deals in goods of the kind, there is an implied warranty of merchantability, meaning that the goods are fit for the ordinary purpose for which they are intended. It also includes a warranty that they are properly packaged, and if fungible, are of fair average quality within the description. In addition, an implied warranty can arise from industry standards as well as prior course of dealings. Here, if you have previously used the course and there was no down-time preventing access to online materials, then you can argue that the previous course of dealing set the warranty expectation for this particular deal.

Of course, you could go with breach of an implied warranty that the product was fit for a particular purpose. Under the UCC, where a buyer relies on the recommendation of a seller, merchant or not, when purchasing the goods, and the seller knows or reasonably should know that the buyer is relying on the seller's assurance that the product will work for the buyer's particular purpose, an implied warranty is created and the seller can be liable for damages arising from the failure of the goods to meet expectations. Here, if the bar prep company knew you were relying on it's product in order to get online at the exact time that the website was unavailable, and they sold it to you anyway, you could recover.

However, Barbri would likely argue that this is not a contract for goods at all, but a contract for services. In determining whether a contract that involves both the transfer of goods and the providing of services is within the UCC, a court will look to see what the main purpose of the contract was and the nature of the bulk of the performance owed. Barbri will argue that even if there are some books involved, it is nonethless a service provider, not a seller of goods. If a court found that the contract was one for services, then, unlike a contract under the UCC which requires perfect tender, all that Barbri must show is substantial performance. Once that has happened, you might be able to recover compensatory damages for the time the site was down, but probably not reliance damages. Generally, reliance damages are awarded where the compensatory damages are too speculative or uncertain.

(Guess what I was studying today?) :P

mcmand

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Is it just me or is the Wills lecture for Barbri absolutely terrible? Reading word-for-word from an outline that doesn't even define terminology is frustrating as hell, especially since I didn't take a class on wills, trusts, and estates.
Last edited by mcmand on Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby varcom24 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:42 pm

mcmand wrote:Is it just me or is the Wills lecture for Barbri absolutely terrible? Reading word-for-word from an outline that doesn't even define terminology is frustrating as hell, especially since I didn't take a class on wills, trusts, and estates.


Couldn't agree more. It also didn't help that what would have been the one saving grace (having blanks to fill in in the book as the video progressed) was messed up by Barbri printing books with those filled in. Ended up not finishing the Wills video in favor of just reading the conviser review/outline, and will probably do the same if the Trusts lecture tomorrow is as bad. I also didn't take a class on those subjects so the whole thing has been pretty frustrating.

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby jphiggo » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:12 am

varcom24 wrote:
mcmand wrote:Is it just me or is the Wills lecture for Barbri absolutely terrible? Reading word-for-word from an outline that doesn't even define terminology is frustrating as hell, especially since I didn't take a class on wills, trusts, and estates.


Couldn't agree more. It also didn't help that what would have been the one saving grace (having blanks to fill in in the book as the video progressed) was messed up by Barbri printing books with those filled in. Ended up not finishing the Wills video in favor of just reading the conviser review/outline, and will probably do the same if the Trusts lecture tomorrow is as bad. I also didn't take a class on those subjects so the whole thing has been pretty frustrating.


Agreed

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby sk1130 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:29 pm

jphiggo wrote:
varcom24 wrote:
mcmand wrote:Is it just me or is the Wills lecture for Barbri absolutely terrible? Reading word-for-word from an outline that doesn't even define terminology is frustrating as hell, especially since I didn't take a class on wills, trusts, and estates.


Couldn't agree more. It also didn't help that what would have been the one saving grace (having blanks to fill in in the book as the video progressed) was messed up by Barbri printing books with those filled in. Ended up not finishing the Wills video in favor of just reading the conviser review/outline, and will probably do the same if the Trusts lecture tomorrow is as bad. I also didn't take a class on those subjects so the whole thing has been pretty frustrating.


Agreed


I thought I was the only one. Terrible. Speaking of which, however, since Wills was its own essay in February what are the chances it will appear in July....hoping slim to none.

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logical seasoning

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby logical seasoning » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:30 pm

sk1130 wrote:
jphiggo wrote:
varcom24 wrote:
mcmand wrote:Is it just me or is the Wills lecture for Barbri absolutely terrible? Reading word-for-word from an outline that doesn't even define terminology is frustrating as hell, especially since I didn't take a class on wills, trusts, and estates.


Couldn't agree more. It also didn't help that what would have been the one saving grace (having blanks to fill in in the book as the video progressed) was messed up by Barbri printing books with those filled in. Ended up not finishing the Wills video in favor of just reading the conviser review/outline, and will probably do the same if the Trusts lecture tomorrow is as bad. I also didn't take a class on those subjects so the whole thing has been pretty frustrating.


Agreed


I thought I was the only one. Terrible. Speaking of which, however, since Wills was its own essay in February what are the chances it will appear in July....hoping slim to none.


Yeah the worst. His only saving grace is that he tells us what is ***heavily tested on the bar exam***

varcom24

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby varcom24 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:30 pm

logical seasoning wrote:
sk1130 wrote:
jphiggo wrote:
varcom24 wrote:
mcmand wrote:Is it just me or is the Wills lecture for Barbri absolutely terrible? Reading word-for-word from an outline that doesn't even define terminology is frustrating as hell, especially since I didn't take a class on wills, trusts, and estates.


Couldn't agree more. It also didn't help that what would have been the one saving grace (having blanks to fill in in the book as the video progressed) was messed up by Barbri printing books with those filled in. Ended up not finishing the Wills video in favor of just reading the conviser review/outline, and will probably do the same if the Trusts lecture tomorrow is as bad. I also didn't take a class on those subjects so the whole thing has been pretty frustrating.


Agreed


I thought I was the only one. Terrible. Speaking of which, however, since Wills was its own essay in February what are the chances it will appear in July....hoping slim to none.


Yeah the worst. His only saving grace is that he tells us what is ***heavily tested on the bar exam***


Seems like going from conviser mini review straight to the wills & trusts essay writing approach video is a better way to build a foundation than starting with those lectures

oldhoya

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Re: Cal Barbri Books -- Free to a Good Home

Postby oldhoya » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:53 am

Hey all,

I bought the California Barbri books for the Feb 2017 exam and would be happy to pass them along to anyone interested. I'm in the San Diego area - just let me know.

omar.comin

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby omar.comin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:20 pm

I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO WRITE A WILLS ESSAY. effing barbri. I didnt take wills. Does it get better later? Will I magically start understanding it come July?

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BenjarvusGreenEllis

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby BenjarvusGreenEllis » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:05 pm

omar.comin wrote:I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO WRITE A WILLS ESSAY. effing barbri. I didnt take wills. Does it get better later? Will I magically start understanding it come July?


I feel exactly the same way. Wills is stressing me out.

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TheLegalOne

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby TheLegalOne » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:11 pm

Any idea on how to practice a 90 minute PT when you are self studying for the CBX? I know there's one provided on the Cal Bar site (I have completed it twice). I can't help but think the 3 hour PTs are now a waste of time (i.e., will not help me with my timing). Are people using the MPTs from other states since they are 90 mins? Otherwise, I don't have study material for it. I think it will be crucial to practice 2 essays and a 90 minute PT several times to get comfortable with the afternoon timing.

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a male human

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:22 pm

TheLegalOne wrote:Any idea on how to practice a 90 minute PT when you are self studying for the CBX? I know there's one provided on the Cal Bar site (I have completed it twice). I can't help but think the 3 hour PTs are now a waste of time (i.e., will not help me with my timing). Are people using the MPTs from other states since they are 90 mins? Otherwise, I don't have study material for it. I think it will be crucial to practice 2 essays and a 90 minute PT several times to get comfortable with the afternoon timing.

If you can do a 3-hour one in time, you can probably do a 90-minute one in time.

Besides, those and the MPTs are the only ones you can work with anyway.

I would personally focus mainly on the 3-hour ones TBH, while keeping in mind the 90-minute format.

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TheLegalOne

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby TheLegalOne » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:13 pm

a male human wrote:
TheLegalOne wrote:Any idea on how to practice a 90 minute PT when you are self studying for the CBX? I know there's one provided on the Cal Bar site (I have completed it twice). I can't help but think the 3 hour PTs are now a waste of time (i.e., will not help me with my timing). Are people using the MPTs from other states since they are 90 mins? Otherwise, I don't have study material for it. I think it will be crucial to practice 2 essays and a 90 minute PT several times to get comfortable with the afternoon timing.

If you can do a 3-hour one in time, you can probably do a 90-minute one in time.

Besides, those and the MPTs are the only ones you can work with anyway.

I would personally focus mainly on the 3-hour ones TBH, while keeping in mind the 90-minute format.


Thanks A Human Male! I may go that route. I got a 50/50 on PTA and a 65/65 on PTB. I'm just nervous about blowing it. I'll keep at the 3 hour ones but I'm really trying to knock the afternoon out the park. I can't help but think they'll give us 2 racehorses - Evidence & PR + a PT, so I'm really worried about finishing everything in time. Back to practicing I go.

InterAlia1961

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:12 am

I'm finding myself on the verge of panic. I just completed my MBE review. It took me three weeks. I'm working on the essay subjects now. I can't shake this sinking feeling that I don't know enough. That no matter how hard or how long I study, I can never know enough to to this. I'm trying to pack as much in as possible. I'm particularly worried about a surprise on the essays. I plan to hit Cal Civ Pro and Cal Evidence hard at about two weeks out. I'm wondering if this is a good strategy or not. I'm also worried about business corps. I'm just worried. With only five essays, I expect some crossover subjects. But, there have been essays that appeared to be crossovers in the past, that decidedly weren't. I remember one that was a straight up crim pro question, but many, many people fell down the evidence rabbit hole. I'm also worried that I'm running out of time to stuff enough into my head to pull this off. I'm crazy, right? In need of some serious medicating. I hate this, and yet I keep trying. Where do they keep the happy pills?

InterAlia1961

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:18 am

TheLegalOne wrote:Any idea on how to practice a 90 minute PT when you are self studying for the CBX? I know there's one provided on the Cal Bar site (I have completed it twice). I can't help but think the 3 hour PTs are now a waste of time (i.e., will not help me with my timing). Are people using the MPTs from other states since they are 90 mins? Otherwise, I don't have study material for it. I think it will be crucial to practice 2 essays and a 90 minute PT several times to get comfortable with the afternoon timing.


The NCBE has posted past 90 minute performance tests that are helpful. Scroll past the summaries. Look at the older ones. There are only 12 pages total in some of them. Here you go: http://www.ncbex.org/exams/mpt/preparing/ Scroll down. You'll see them. The summaries are also useful. Helps to understand what they are looking for.

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logical seasoning

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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby logical seasoning » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:58 pm

Does anyone using Adaptibar and Barbri notice a huge difference in the MBE questions? I feel like Barbri's questions are more prone to "tricks" while Adaptibar's (real NCBE) questions are more straightforward.

Is it just me?



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