2017 July California Bar

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fear_no_evil
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:34 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:13 pm

Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.

maxmartin
Posts: 620
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby maxmartin » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:17 pm

fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:

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fear_no_evil
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:37 pm

maxmartin wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:


:x

mcmand
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:45 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:06 pm

maxmartin wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:


Couldn't we sue for a delay like that? Or could our employers? Not having a bar license deprives us of making money so...

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fear_no_evil
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:39 pm

mcmand wrote:
maxmartin wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Alt123 wrote:State bar said the court needed to give its decision by the 20th of this month to have it apply.

See the footnote on page 47 of the report sent to the Court by the State Bar in this PDF:
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/doc ... 122017.pdf

"43 The State Bar will need to be notified of any modified July 2017 cut score no later than October 20, 2017, in
order to implement that change such that exam results can be released as normal on the Friday before
Thanksgiving."

So I guess they can release it late, it just affects when we get our results..


Ok, so at least we will know in 9 days whether the cut score will be lowered for july 2017.


Not so fast, the court can always issue the order past 20th but demand the board to comply with the new cut score. So the board has to delay the planned result release date. :mrgreen:


Couldn't we sue for a delay like that? Or could our employers? Not having a bar license deprives us of making money so...


Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:

InterAlia1961
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:35 am

fear_no_evil wrote:Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:


The State Bar must release the scores on time. In California, a plaintiff may bring an action to enforce a primary right. A plaintiff has the primary right to enjoy the benefit of a fully performed contract. Here, should the State Bar fail to release the scores on the stated date, they will deprive all test takers of the right to full performance of the agreement between them and the State Bar. Specifically, the failure of the State Bar to release the scores on the stated date will be a failure of a condition subsequent agreed upon by the parties when they entered into the specific agreement. The applicant agrees to show up and take the test, and abide by the final score. The State Bar agrees to admit qualified candidates to the testing centers provided payment has been made. At the time of payment, and the inception of the legally binding agreement, the release date is clearly stated. In order to fulfill their duty under the contract, the State Bar must release the scores on November 17th. Failing to do so will deprive thousands of their primary right as recognized by California's pleading code.

:arrow: That's some lawyering, right there! :mrgreen:

ConfusedL1
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby ConfusedL1 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:44 am

InterAlia1961 wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:


The State Bar must release the scores on time. In California, a plaintiff may bring an action to enforce a primary right. A plaintiff has the primary right to enjoy the benefit of a fully performed contract. Here, should the State Bar fail to release the scores on the stated date, they will deprive all test takers of the right to full performance of the agreement between them and the State Bar. Specifically, the failure of the State Bar to release the scores on the stated date will be a failure of a condition subsequent agreed upon by the parties when they entered into the specific agreement. The applicant agrees to show up and take the test, and abide by the final score. The State Bar agrees to admit qualified candidates to the testing centers provided payment has been made. At the time of payment, and the inception of the legally binding agreement, the release date is clearly stated. In order to fulfill their duty under the contract, the State Bar must release the scores on November 17th. Failing to do so will deprive thousands of their primary right as recognized by California's pleading code.

:arrow: That's some lawyering, right there! :mrgreen:


Lol. Good luck with that.

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fear_no_evil
Posts: 22
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:53 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:Hmmmmm, what right is being deprived? A right to the licence or a right to earn a living? Are you being deprived of a right when you haven't been issued the licence yet? If you do have a right to the license, is an administrative delay (made is good faith) before issuance a deprivation of that right? :?:


The State Bar must release the scores on time. In California, a plaintiff may bring an action to enforce a primary right. A plaintiff has the primary right to enjoy the benefit of a fully performed contract. Here, should the State Bar fail to release the scores on the stated date, they will deprive all test takers of the right to full performance of the agreement between them and the State Bar. Specifically, the failure of the State Bar to release the scores on the stated date will be a failure of a condition subsequent agreed upon by the parties when they entered into the specific agreement. The applicant agrees to show up and take the test, and abide by the final score. The State Bar agrees to admit qualified candidates to the testing centers provided payment has been made. At the time of payment, and the inception of the legally binding agreement, the release date is clearly stated. In order to fulfill their duty under the contract, the State Bar must release the scores on November 17th. Failing to do so will deprive thousands of their primary right as recognized by California's pleading code.

:arrow: That's some lawyering, right there! :mrgreen:


Ok, that’s cool. But a few questions for you (since I have nothing better to do with my time). :roll:

If you approach it as a breach of contract, wouldn’t a delay in releasing results be a minor breach, if it all, without an express clause stating that time is of the essence?

In addition, Wouldn’t the court look for “bad faith” on the part of the State bar? There is no bad faith here since any delay would be due to following orders from the Supreme Court to change the cut score right before scores are released.

Wouldn’t the Supreme Ct’s decision be considered an unforeseeable act? Wouldn’t that unforeseeable act cut off liability for such a minor breach?

Wouldn’t any duty to release scores not arise until scores have been tabulated? Even if the breaching party was responsible for meeting the condition precedent (tabulating the scores), remember, there is likely no bad faith here on the part of the state bar if results are delayed.

Would a delay in releasing results really deprive test takers of the benefit of their bargain? They would still receive the results, just not at the expected time. Especially If the delay is reasonable due to an unforeseeable act, outside the control of the breaching party, and the breach can be cured in a reasonable amount of time?

Are the damages foreseeable? Is it foreseeable that an employer would pull a job offer (if that's your loss) before results are released, due to a delay from the State Bar, outside of applicants control?

Just some thoughts. I must really be bored. :?

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CAnow
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:07 pm

fear_no_evil wrote: I must really be bored. :?


I miss that feeling. I've got a boatload of work and can't seem to get caught up. It's 10PM here in Texas and I'm still stuck at the office...

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a male human
Posts: 1826
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:42 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:11 pm

I left at 8 PM and just got home. I hate it. It's like taking a final exam every day. Now I have to make dinner and push my to-do list even further.

I know I shouldn't complain about work in a topic full of people waiting on bar results, but...

InterAlia1961
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:14 am

fear_no_evil wrote:
Ok, that’s cool. But a few questions for you (since I have nothing better to do with my time). :roll:

If you approach it as a breach of contract, wouldn’t a delay in releasing results be a minor breach, if it all, without an express clause stating that time is of the essence?

In addition, Wouldn’t the court look for “bad faith” on the part of the State bar? There is no bad faith here since any delay would be due to following orders from the Supreme Court to change the cut score right before scores are released.

Wouldn’t the Supreme Ct’s decision be considered an unforeseeable act? Wouldn’t that unforeseeable act cut off liability for such a minor breach?

Wouldn’t any duty to release scores not arise until scores have been tabulated? Even if the breaching party was responsible for meeting the condition precedent (tabulating the scores), remember, there is likely no bad faith here on the part of the state bar if results are delayed.

Would a delay in releasing results really deprive test takers of the benefit of their bargain? They would still receive the results, just not at the expected time. Especially If the delay is reasonable due to an unforeseeable act, outside the control of the breaching party, and the breach can be cured in a reasonable amount of time?

Are the damages foreseeable? Is it foreseeable that an employer would pull a job offer (if that's your loss) before results are released, due to a delay from the State Bar, outside of applicants control?

Just some thoughts. I must really be bored. :?


Dude, you're going to be an awesome lawyer. I get you about the boredom. It's especially frustrating because if I knew that I passed, I could be doing things and making plans. Instead, I wait. But if they don't release the scores on time, it will cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth throughout Cali, and beyond. I'll be vein-popping pissed if that happens.

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fear_no_evil
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:09 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
fear_no_evil wrote:
Ok, that’s cool. But a few questions for you (since I have nothing better to do with my time). :roll:

If you approach it as a breach of contract, wouldn’t a delay in releasing results be a minor breach, if it all, without an express clause stating that time is of the essence?

In addition, Wouldn’t the court look for “bad faith” on the part of the State bar? There is no bad faith here since any delay would be due to following orders from the Supreme Court to change the cut score right before scores are released.

Wouldn’t the Supreme Ct’s decision be considered an unforeseeable act? Wouldn’t that unforeseeable act cut off liability for such a minor breach?

Wouldn’t any duty to release scores not arise until scores have been tabulated? Even if the breaching party was responsible for meeting the condition precedent (tabulating the scores), remember, there is likely no bad faith here on the part of the state bar if results are delayed.

Would a delay in releasing results really deprive test takers of the benefit of their bargain? They would still receive the results, just not at the expected time. Especially If the delay is reasonable due to an unforeseeable act, outside the control of the breaching party, and the breach can be cured in a reasonable amount of time?

Are the damages foreseeable? Is it foreseeable that an employer would pull a job offer (if that's your loss) before results are released, due to a delay from the State Bar, outside of applicants control?

Just some thoughts. I must really be bored. :?


Dude, you're going to be an awesome lawyer. I get you about the boredom. It's especially frustrating because if I knew that I passed, I could be doing things and making plans. Instead, I wait. But if they don't release the scores on time, it will cause great wailing and gnashing of teeth throughout Cali, and beyond. I'll be vein-popping pissed if that happens.


Yeah, I'm staying positive and already planning as if I passed. I feel pretty good about how I performed on the exam. If they lower the cut score its like icing on the cake, I hope. I don't want any delay with the results, but, I guess all will be forgiven if I passed.

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Alt123
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Alt123 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:44 pm

Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:46 pm

shiiit sorry guys

justanotheruser
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:07 pm

Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Fuck.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:09 pm

a male human wrote:shiiit sorry guys


yeah super sorry amigos.

sk1130
Posts: 37
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby sk1130 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:10 pm

Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Damn. Can't believe I was semi-optimistic for a second :|

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fear_no_evil
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:27 pm

sk1130 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Damn. Can't believe I was semi-optimistic for a second :|


Me too... but I still hope to see an increase in the pass rate. I think the new 2 day format and the increase in MBE weighting(50%) will help a lot of people.

justanotheruser
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:34 pm

fear_no_evil wrote:
sk1130 wrote:
Alt123 wrote:Court declines to lower the score for the time being.

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/sup ... a-bar-exam

ANXIETY AT MAX


Damn. Can't believe I was semi-optimistic for a second :|


Me too... but I still hope to see an increase in the pass rate. I think the new 2 day format and the increase in MBE weighting(50%) will help a lot of people.


Any chance the grading criteria/rubric for the essays will be a little more lenient too? (I know, grasping at straws here)

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ManoftheHour
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby ManoftheHour » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:36 pm

Damn it. S@#$!!!

jman77
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby jman77 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:42 pm

I'm surprised the court didn't at least go down to 1414. I am almost 100% sure the pass rates will go up by a non-negligible rate with the new 2-day, 50/50 format and there will be less fervor to push for a lower cut score moving forward. This matter is probably as good as dead.

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fear_no_evil
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:48 pm

jman77 wrote:I'm surprised the court didn't at least go down to 1414. I am almost 100% sure the pass rates will go up by a non-negligible rate with the new 2-day, 50/50 format and there will be less fervor to push for a lower cut score moving forward. This matter is probably as good as dead.


Unfortunately, you may be right.

Jay.T17
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Jay.T17 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm

Ahhh not lowering the cut score hurts. Ca will probably have a overall pass rate of 50% and first time take pass rate of 60%. Similiar to July 2014 when the National MBE average was about the same as this year.

mcmand
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:40 pm

Disappointing that the Court couldn't be a leader on this.

justanotheruser
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Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:36 pm

mcmand wrote:Disappointing that the Court couldn't be a leader on this.


Really surprised given that the State Bar was ready to lower the score




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