2017 July California Bar

barjamie8
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:56 am

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby barjamie8 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:26 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:
Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP


I would recommend putting more prep into PR than the other essays. It's almost a guarantee to be tested at least partially, and if there's a whole essay on it, you could gain a lot of points that would buffer the rest of your essays. An 80 would basically allow you to pull three 60 scores up to 65.

CP also has a good chance of being tested. If you can nail CP and PR, you should be in decent shape.

Get at least familiar with the PT's so you can at least pull at 65 on it. They don't take a ton of prep time, and knowing how to format them will get you points off the bat.

Good luck! You can do this!


Evidence is the second most tested subject after PR.

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Alt123
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Alt123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:38 pm

K so... CA community property notes were a bit misleading for Barbri. Lecturer has the headline "business owned before marriage greatly increases in value during marriage" and goes into how to use Van Camp and Pereira to divide the increase but never has a hypo discussing separate property used during marriage.

But as I have just found out, after much anger on my part, the following (i think this is right, someone correct me):

1 - if the business was started BEFORE marriage use Van Camp and Pereira

2 - if the business was started DURING marriage with community funds, DON'T use Van Camp and Pereira but rather divide the business equally including goodwill adding to its value.

3 - If the business is started DURING marriage but with SEPARATE property then you need to use Van Camp and Pereira


Am I correct?

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whats an updog
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby whats an updog » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Alt123 wrote:K so... CA community property notes were a bit misleading for Barbri. Lecturer has the headline "business owned before marriage greatly increases in value during marriage" and goes into how to use Van Camp and Pereira to divide the increase but never has a hypo discussing separate property used during marriage.

But as I have just found out, after much anger on my part, the following (i think this is right, someone correct me):

1 - if the business was started BEFORE marriage use Van Camp and Pereira

2 - if the business was started DURING marriage with community funds, DON'T use Van Camp and Pereira but rather divide the business equally including goodwill adding to its value.

3 - If the business is started DURING marriage but with SEPARATE property then you need to use Van Camp and Pereira


Am I correct?


Yes, and according to Themis, use "Reverse" Pereira and "Reverse" Van Camp if it was a CP business started during marriage which increased in value post-separation but pre-divorce.

"Reverse" Pereira:

CP = Fair market value at time of separation + (fair rate of return on FMV (10%) * # years of separation)
SP = FMV of business at divorce - CP

"Reverse" Van Camp:

SP = Reasonable value of spouse's services during separation - family expenses paid during separation
CP = FMV at time of divorce - SP

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Alt123
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Alt123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:54 pm

whats an updog wrote:
Alt123 wrote:K so... CA community property notes were a bit misleading for Barbri. Lecturer has the headline "business owned before marriage greatly increases in value during marriage" and goes into how to use Van Camp and Pereira to divide the increase but never has a hypo discussing separate property used during marriage.

But as I have just found out, after much anger on my part, the following (i think this is right, someone correct me):

1 - if the business was started BEFORE marriage use Van Camp and Pereira

2 - if the business was started DURING marriage with community funds, DON'T use Van Camp and Pereira but rather divide the business equally including goodwill adding to its value.

3 - If the business is started DURING marriage but with SEPARATE property then you need to use Van Camp and Pereira


Am I correct?


Yes, and according to Themis, use "Reverse" Pereira and "Reverse" Van Camp if it was a CP business started during marriage which increased in value post-separation but pre-divorce.

"Reverse" Pereira:

CP = Fair market value at time of separation + (fair rate of return on FMV (10%) * # years of separation)
SP = FMV of business at divorce - CP

"Reverse" Van Camp:

SP = Reasonable value of spouse's services during separation - family expenses paid during separation
CP = FMV at time of divorce - SP


Ok, thanks. Barbri doesn't mention reverse in their answers at all. Interesting.

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goldenflash19
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby goldenflash19 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:55 pm

barjamie8 wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:
Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP


I would recommend putting more prep into PR than the other essays. It's almost a guarantee to be tested at least partially, and if there's a whole essay on it, you could gain a lot of points that would buffer the rest of your essays. An 80 would basically allow you to pull three 60 scores up to 65.

CP also has a good chance of being tested. If you can nail CP and PR, you should be in decent shape.

Get at least familiar with the PT's so you can at least pull at 65 on it. They don't take a ton of prep time, and knowing how to format them will get you points off the bat.

Good luck! You can do this!


Evidence is the second most tested subject after PR.


Evidence would also be a good one to target if I had limited time. It's tough, though, with the CA/FRE distinctions.

I wonder if there is going to be more of a focus on CA subjects with the MBE now making up 50% of the score?

I found a blog of a guy who predicts CA bar topics. He was 5/6 for Feb. I know it's nothing to bank on, but he predicted: Ca Civ Pro, PR, CP, CA Evidence, and K's/Remedies.

barjamie8
Posts: 35
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby barjamie8 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:49 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:
Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP


I would recommend putting more prep into PR than the other essays. It's almost a guarantee to be tested at least partially, and if there's a whole essay on it, you could gain a lot of points that would buffer the rest of your essays. An 80 would basically allow you to pull three 60 scores up to 65.

CP also has a good chance of being tested. If you can nail CP and PR, you should be in decent shape.

Get at least familiar with the PT's so you can at least pull at 65 on it. They don't take a ton of prep time, and knowing how to format them will get you points off the bat.

Good luck! You can do this!


Evidence is the second most tested subject after PR.


Evidence would also be a good one to target if I had limited time. It's tough, though, with the CA/FRE distinctions.

I wonder if there is going to be more of a focus on CA subjects with the MBE now making up 50% of the score?

I found a blog of a guy who predicts CA bar topics. He was 5/6 for Feb. I know it's nothing to bank on, but he predicted: Ca Civ Pro, PR, CP, CA Evidence, and K's/Remedies.


Predictions are frauds.

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goldenflash19
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby goldenflash19 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:34 pm

Not saying they're not. But reading through the essay approach on a subject, which patterns/trends suggest could be more likely to be tested, one last time before the exam isn't the worst idea on earth.

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:49 pm

Personally, PR and Remedies seem to be trending in the last few years. I'd look out for those.

Don't listen to me, though. If you overlapped everyone's predictions, it would cover all subjects, which is all fair game.

varcom24
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby varcom24 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:11 am

Anyone thinking of doing the PT first, then going back to the essays in the afternoon session?

LockBox
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:10 pm

varcom24 wrote:Anyone thinking of doing the PT first, then going back to the essays in the afternoon session?


First, is this possible (i'm not familiar with the new format)? Second, why would you tax yourself mentally on something you don't need recollection for, only to have the essays, where you do need to recall rules, spot issues etc? Just because it is easier doesn't mean you should do it first. I guess the only way I would think this strategy works is if you feel sluggish earlier in the day and recall better later. Still, I would say tackle the essays first if you have the choice.

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CAnow
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:22 pm

goldenflash19 wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:
Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP


I would recommend putting more prep into PR than the other essays. It's almost a guarantee to be tested at least partially, and if there's a whole essay on it, you could gain a lot of points that would buffer the rest of your essays. An 80 would basically allow you to pull three 60 scores up to 65.

CP also has a good chance of being tested. If you can nail CP and PR, you should be in decent shape.

Get at least familiar with the PT's so you can at least pull at 65 on it. They don't take a ton of prep time, and knowing how to format them will get you points off the bat.

Good luck! You can do this!


Evidence is the second most tested subject after PR.


Evidence would also be a good one to target if I had limited time. It's tough, though, with the CA/FRE distinctions.

I wonder if there is going to be more of a focus on CA subjects with the MBE now making up 50% of the score?

I found a blog of a guy who predicts CA bar topics. He was 5/6 for Feb. I know it's nothing to bank on, but he predicted: Ca Civ Pro, PR, CP, CA Evidence, and K's/Remedies.


4.5 out of 5 essays on state law? Gawd I hope not!

mimim8
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mimim8 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:22 pm

varcom24 wrote:Anyone thinking of doing the PT first, then going back to the essays in the afternoon session?



I thought about it. My plan is to do a timed practice 2 essay 1 MPT session one of these days and see how that works out. So I definitely want to try it out first.

Timing is an issue for me with the MPTs I'm concerned that having to flash read 20+ pages after plowing through 2 essays is going to take more time than it would otherwise if I'm fresh and not still thinking about the 2 prior questions. On the other hand, since I know time for me in an issue here, I don't want to do it first and feel like I have SO much time left for the essays and steal essay time.

varcom24
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby varcom24 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:32 pm

mimim8 wrote:
varcom24 wrote:Anyone thinking of doing the PT first, then going back to the essays in the afternoon session?



I thought about it. My plan is to do a timed practice 2 essay 1 MPT session one of these days and see how that works out. So I definitely want to try it out first.

Timing is an issue for me with the MPTs I'm concerned that having to flash read 20+ pages after plowing through 2 essays is going to take more time than it would otherwise if I'm fresh and not still thinking about the 2 prior questions. On the other hand, since I know time for me in an issue here, I don't want to do it first and feel like I have SO much time left for the essays and steal essay time.


Yeah, my thought process is similar. PTs are easy as far as not requiring any legal knowledge to do well. But it's a time crunch. digesting the library/file, figuring out the right way to format the final product (and it seems like there usually is pretty much one right way to do it), and then actually writing enough to cover all important facts is difficult and leaves little room for error. I'm thinking it makes sense to do that first while fresh, because once you hit the essays you're in much more familiar territory and only have to focus on recalling and applying the rules we've been studying for months now

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goldenflash19
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby goldenflash19 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:38 pm

varcom24 wrote:Anyone thinking of doing the PT first, then going back to the essays in the afternoon session?


I'm planning on doing the essays first. If I'm comfortable with a topic, I've found I can wrap up an essay in 50-55 minutes. I'd rather start a PT with 5-10 more minutes than have an extra 5-10 minutes to spare if I did the PT's first and wrapped up an essay a little early.

yost
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby yost » Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:16 pm

varcom24 wrote:Anyone thinking of doing the PT first, then going back to the essays in the afternoon session?


I'm planning on doing this. I can write a decent essay in less than an hour if necessary, but if I leave myself any less than 90 minutes for the PT, I will be totally screwed. I'd rather be rushed on an essay at the end than the PT.

mcmand
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:46 pm

Can we start talking about relaxation/anxiety-reducing techniques? All I've come up with for myself so far is a hot bath before bed the night before.

I only raise this because I used to work for a state bar authority (not CA), and helped with bar exam administration, and even though it's actually quite chill as a staff person, the sheer level of stress of the examinees actually caused me to be stressed (and sometimes would make me ill). It must be pheromones or something.

Worried that now I'll be at a bar exam again, as someone taking it, my body will just flip out. I want to put myself in full zen mode by Tuesday morning.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby SmokeytheBear » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:49 pm

mcmand wrote:Can we start talking about relaxation/anxiety-reducing techniques? All I've come up with for myself so far is a hot bath before bed the night before.

I only raise this because I used to work for a state bar authority (not CA), and helped with bar exam administration, and even though it's actually quite chill as a staff person, the sheer level of stress of the examinees actually caused me to be stressed (and sometimes would make me ill). It must be pheromones or something.

Worried that now I'll be at a bar exam again, as someone taking it, my body will just flip out. I want to put myself in full zen mode by Tuesday morning.


Work out. Physical exhaustion. Yoga if it's your thing, or go for a run. Definitely no booze for a few days before he exam. A light dinner (fish, greens, etc--don't house a pizza and a burger).

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t-14orbust
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby t-14orbust » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:49 pm

mcmand wrote:Can we start talking about relaxation/anxiety-reducing techniques? All I've come up with for myself so far is a hot bath before bed the night before.

I only raise this because I used to work for a state bar authority (not CA), and helped with bar exam administration, and even though it's actually quite chill as a staff person, the sheer level of stress of the examinees actually caused me to be stressed (and sometimes would make me ill). It must be pheromones or something.

Worried that now I'll be at a bar exam again, as someone taking it, my body will just flip out. I want to put myself in full zen mode by Tuesday morning.


Exercise, yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, visualization

mcmand
Posts: 247
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:52 pm

t-14orbust wrote:
mcmand wrote:Can we start talking about relaxation/anxiety-reducing techniques? All I've come up with for myself so far is a hot bath before bed the night before.

I only raise this because I used to work for a state bar authority (not CA), and helped with bar exam administration, and even though it's actually quite chill as a staff person, the sheer level of stress of the examinees actually caused me to be stressed (and sometimes would make me ill). It must be pheromones or something.

Worried that now I'll be at a bar exam again, as someone taking it, my body will just flip out. I want to put myself in full zen mode by Tuesday morning.


Exercise, yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, visualization


I have done yoga all of once from a YouTube video. Is there a recommended channel I should check out? I liked it when I did it but didn't invest more time in it.

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t-14orbust
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby t-14orbust » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:00 pm

mcmand wrote:
t-14orbust wrote:
mcmand wrote:Can we start talking about relaxation/anxiety-reducing techniques? All I've come up with for myself so far is a hot bath before bed the night before.

I only raise this because I used to work for a state bar authority (not CA), and helped with bar exam administration, and even though it's actually quite chill as a staff person, the sheer level of stress of the examinees actually caused me to be stressed (and sometimes would make me ill). It must be pheromones or something.

Worried that now I'll be at a bar exam again, as someone taking it, my body will just flip out. I want to put myself in full zen mode by Tuesday morning.


Exercise, yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, visualization


I have done yoga all of once from a YouTube video. Is there a recommended channel I should check out? I liked it when I did it but didn't invest more time in it.


30 days of Yoga with Adrienne is pretty great for beginners.

I personally like to do Yoga for posture with Antranik.
You can find both on youtube

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:17 pm

I like sleep. Not sure what it is about sleep -- but visualization and meditation and exercise don't work for me. Nothing better than listening to your body and going the fuck to sleep and turning your brain off.

Get good sleep every day for a multiple of 90 minutes (REM cycle), roughly. I prefer 5 cycles (7.5 hours) with as little light as possible. Natural light like moon and stars and sunrise are OK.

To block out any extra light, I bought a sleep mask that's still going strong (arguably).

Other things that might help:

- Earplugs
- Keep relatively cool (open window, lighter clothing, etc.)
- Alarm to remind you to GO to sleep
- Install https://justgetflux.com/ on your computer (PC, Mac) or mobile device (Android, iOS) to lower blue light at night
- Write down any worries or thoughts as they pop up in bed or before bedtime to clear your head and delegate them to future you

kaytraco1
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby kaytraco1 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:48 pm

Having a lot of trouble nailing rule statements on these essays. I'm spotting the issues and employing the facts in creative ways, but I'm doing so by only giving a vague a rule statement. How are you all learning these rule statements? Forcing yourself to write them out over and over again?

barjamie8
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby barjamie8 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:42 pm

kaytraco1 wrote:Having a lot of trouble nailing rule statements on these essays. I'm spotting the issues and employing the facts in creative ways, but I'm doing so by only giving a vague a rule statement. How are you all learning these rule statements? Forcing yourself to write them out over and over again?


Copy the rule statements from model answers or sample high scoring essays and put them down on flashcards to memorize.

yost
Posts: 142
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby yost » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:03 pm

kaytraco1 wrote:Having a lot of trouble nailing rule statements on these essays. I'm spotting the issues and employing the facts in creative ways, but I'm doing so by only giving a vague a rule statement. How are you all learning these rule statements? Forcing yourself to write them out over and over again?


Yeah, pretty much. I use flashcards, and instead of recalling a rule statement orally, I write out as much of the rule as I can. If I was particularly bad, I'll shuffle the card back into the deck and hit it again later.

unitball
Posts: 80
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby unitball » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:51 pm

I'm confused about the difference between land-possessor duties to anticipated trespassers vs. invitees.

Regarding anticipated trespassers, my materials say a land possessor has a duty to "warn of or make safe,..." but also that the land possessor does NOT have a duty to inspect or repair. I always thought make safe meant repair in this context though.

Regarding invitees, it says the landowner has the same duties as for anticipated trespassers PLUS a duty to "make reasonable inspections to discover non-obvious dangerous conditions and, thereafter, make them safe (a warning may suffice)."

I'm not exactly sure what "make safe" means in these two different rules. Is "make safe" supposed to be distinct from a warning or is it the same thing?




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