2017 July California Bar

Bartaker2017
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Bartaker2017 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:19 pm

thisisxael wrote:
whats an updog wrote:
Bartaker2017 wrote:I have a civil pro question. In a diversity case in federal court must the federal court allow an additur if it is allowed in state court or must the federal court refuse a parties request for an additur since they are not allowed in federal court because it would violate the 7th amendment?


I don't think that's resolved, but Emanuel's Strategies & Tactics for the MBE says that because of analogous SCOTUS precedent, federal courts should apply additur if that's the state law.


the case saying no additur in fed ct was from before erie, so that's why it's unclear. i would just say that if it came up on an essay ("it is unclear whether additur is considered substantive or state law"), and if it comes up on the MBE ill throw the book at the proctor and prob start to cry or something



The issue is I have done the MBE questions one from Adaptibar and one from the Strategies and Tactics book and both claim to a different conclusion.

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whats an updog
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby whats an updog » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:03 pm

Bartaker2017 wrote:
thisisxael wrote:
whats an updog wrote:
Bartaker2017 wrote:I have a civil pro question. In a diversity case in federal court must the federal court allow an additur if it is allowed in state court or must the federal court refuse a parties request for an additur since they are not allowed in federal court because it would violate the 7th amendment?


I don't think that's resolved, but Emanuel's Strategies & Tactics for the MBE says that because of analogous SCOTUS precedent, federal courts should apply additur if that's the state law.


the case saying no additur in fed ct was from before erie, so that's why it's unclear. i would just say that if it came up on an essay ("it is unclear whether additur is considered substantive or state law"), and if it comes up on the MBE ill throw the book at the proctor and prob start to cry or something



The issue is I have done the MBE questions one from Adaptibar and one from the Strategies and Tactics book and both claim to a different conclusion.


Well, that's a bummer. I guess it'd just come down to trying to eliminate bad answers. :(

thisisxael
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby thisisxael » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:44 pm


thisisxael
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby thisisxael » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:45 pm

this could be cool and all, but i've heard that ca sc justices require scotus grades for clerking so idk if i trust them to set the standards for lawyering i feel like they'll be like "you just CANT be a lawyer if you can't get a 170 on the mbe!!!"

LockBox
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:04 pm

thisisxael wrote:this could be cool and all, but i've heard that ca sc justices require scotus grades for clerking so idk if i trust them to set the standards for lawyering i feel like they'll be like "you just CANT be a lawyer if you can't get a 170 on the mbe!!!"


Well, regardless of what they require from their clerks, they will likely apply a different standard as to setting the bar to practice law in CA. Secondly, it is apparent that the cut score is not going to go UP, so it seems this can only help y'all who are taking this exam in a week or so. Lastly, it will likely be applied retroactively, as I believe the article states.

Nonetheless, I also wouldn't be surprised if the cut score doesn't change at all. That is the attitude you need to take into the exam with you - crush it and leave the details to others to figure out.

barjamie8
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby barjamie8 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:13 pm

LockBox wrote:
thisisxael wrote:this could be cool and all, but i've heard that ca sc justices require scotus grades for clerking so idk if i trust them to set the standards for lawyering i feel like they'll be like "you just CANT be a lawyer if you can't get a 170 on the mbe!!!"


Well, regardless of what they require from their clerks, they will likely apply a different standard as to setting the bar to practice law in CA. Secondly, it is apparent that the cut score is not going to go UP, so it seems this can only help y'all who are taking this exam in a week or so. Lastly, it will likely be applied retroactively, as I believe the article states.

Nonetheless, I also wouldn't be surprised if the cut score doesn't change at all. That is the attitude you need to take into the exam with you - crush it and leave the details to others to figure out.


I'm guessing it goes down but not dramatically. The pass rate might go up a few percentage points.

dlrbfl
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby dlrbfl » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:18 am

Are we allowed to bring a mouse pad with wrist support? The CBX website just says solid color mouse pads are allowed.

SurfLaw
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby SurfLaw » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:07 am

So what raw score on the MBE do you really need to make sure you're hitting a 144 scaled?

And then are 65s on essays pretty much needed for a scaled 144 on the essay portion?

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t-14orbust
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:55 am

SurfLaw wrote:So what raw score on the MBE do you really need to make sure you're hitting a 144 scaled?

And then are 65s on essays pretty much needed for a scaled 144 on the essay portion?


About 119/175 (68%) for a 144 MBE but this varies of course. And yes, around 65s on each essay (if you get a 144 MBE)

omar.comin
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby omar.comin » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:46 am

If baressays.com published an essay, is it safe to assume that the person who wrote it failed? There are some 80+ scores on there, which makes me wonder what happened to the people who wrote them

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:09 am

omar.comin wrote:If baressays.com published an essay, is it safe to assume that the person who wrote it failed? There are some 80+ scores on there, which makes me wonder what happened to the people who wrote them

Yes, you only get essays back if you didn't pass.

Annihilist
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Annihilist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:12 pm

Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:30 pm

Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP

Untouched? Boy, am I reading this right? Are you sure your username isn't "Annihilated"?

Don't even think about lectures at this point. They will tire you out, and you won't remember jack. That's 3-4 extra hours you could spend on practice and learning:

Reserve two days for each of the untouched MBE subjects (~10 hrs each day)
- first day for doing a bunch of MBE problems and reviewing them and redoing them (open + closed book)
- second day for doing and reviewing a broad range of essays -- some full, mostly outlined (issues and rules only), some closed book -- redo until you can do them all closed book

MBE is the most heavily weighted section starting July, which is why there's a full day for each MBE subject.

For each of the remaining five days, split the day into a subject you've already looked at (there should be 5) and a state subject you haven't reviewed (another 5). These state subjects are relatively less of a priority, so we're giving them half day. Do a handful of MBE questions at night to keep yourself going there.

And put PR last because its appearance is virtually assured, and you want it to be the freshest in your mind.

So in sum:
Days 1-6: 3 MBE subjects
Days 7-11: Review of previous subjects + learning the 5 state subjects you didn't touch

Day 12?
Try to get some sleep on Monday. Hope that the adrenaline and bullshit bubbling within you will carry you through. Also, consider answering the essays in an order that makes you feel comfortable. For example, do the ones you know better first (put your answers in the right screen in Softest!).

Review MBE on Tuesday night. It's only two days long now, so it shouldn't even be THAT bad in terms of endurance (why, back in MY days... ...)

Honestly this is the biggest hail mary I've seen and I can't guarantee anything. This is just what I would do if I were in your situation. What even happened to get into this situation in the first place? What have you gone through? :(

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BulletTooth
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby BulletTooth » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:42 pm

LockBox wrote:
thisisxael wrote:this could be cool and all, but i've heard that ca sc justices require scotus grades for clerking so idk if i trust them to set the standards for lawyering i feel like they'll be like "you just CANT be a lawyer if you can't get a 170 on the mbe!!!"


Well, regardless of what they require from their clerks, they will likely apply a different standard as to setting the bar to practice law in CA. Secondly, it is apparent that the cut score is not going to go UP, so it seems this can only help y'all who are taking this exam in a week or so. Lastly, it will likely be applied retroactively, as I believe the article states.

Nonetheless, I also wouldn't be surprised if the cut score doesn't change at all. That is the attitude you need to take into the exam with you - crush it and leave the details to others to figure out.


Agreed. I highly doubt that they plan on holding every attorney who wants to practice in CA to the same standard that they use for hiring their clerks. The whole reason this happened is because the pass rate is low--the CA Supreme Court is definitely not going to raise the score to push the pass rate even lower.

Annihilist
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Annihilist » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:44 pm

a male human wrote:
Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP

Untouched? Boy, am I reading this right? Are you sure your username isn't "Annihilated"?

Don't even think about lectures at this point. They will tire you out, and you won't remember jack. That's 3-4 extra hours you could spend on practice and learning:

Reserve two days for each of the untouched MBE subjects (~10 hrs each day)
- first day for doing a bunch of MBE problems and reviewing them and redoing them (open + closed book)
- second day for doing and reviewing a broad range of essays -- some full, mostly outlined (issues and rules only), some closed book -- redo until you can do them all closed book

MBE is the most heavily weighted section starting July, which is why there's a full day for each MBE subject.

For each of the remaining five days, split the day into a subject you've already looked at (there should be 5) and a state subject you haven't reviewed (another 5). These state subjects are relatively less of a priority, so we're giving them half day. Do a handful of MBE questions at night to keep yourself going there.

And put PR last because its appearance is virtually assured, and you want it to be the freshest in your mind.

So in sum:
Days 1-6: 3 MBE subjects
Days 7-11: Review of previous subjects + learning the 5 state subjects you didn't touch

Day 12?
Try to get some sleep on Monday. Hope that the adrenaline and bullshit bubbling within you will carry you through. Also, consider answering the essays in an order that makes you feel comfortable. For example, do the ones you know better first (put your answers in the right screen in Softest!).

Review MBE on Tuesday night. It's only two days long now, so it shouldn't even be THAT bad in terms of endurance (why, back in MY days... ...)

Honestly this is the biggest hail mary I've seen and I can't guarantee anything. This is just what I would do if I were in your situation. What even happened to get into this situation in the first place? What have you gone through? :(


Family Issues, Hubris, Procrastination Snowball, False Comfort of that Tech Genius who studied for 100 hours and passed.

Wish me luck (read: stamina).

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NYC2012
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby NYC2012 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:46 pm

P sure OP was joking when he said the CA Supreme Court would raise the cut score. They are going to lower it for sure. By how much is the real question. And, will it apply to us???

varcom24
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby varcom24 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:59 pm

around what MBE score do ppl think will get you in essentially auto-pass zone? I scored in 70th percentile on Barbri simulated MBE, but feeling shaky on essays (have only done a handful of practice essays, focused on the subject predictions from that Dr. guy and pretty much ignoring the rest of the essays). Wondering if I'm better off just hammering MBE to get that as high as possible, rather than allocating more time for essays at this point?

Hope everyone is feeling good in the homestretch

barjamie8
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby barjamie8 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:30 pm

varcom24 wrote:around what MBE score do ppl think will get you in essentially auto-pass zone? I scored in 70th percentile on Barbri simulated MBE, but feeling shaky on essays (have only done a handful of practice essays, focused on the subject predictions from that Dr. guy and pretty much ignoring the rest of the essays). Wondering if I'm better off just hammering MBE to get that as high as possible, rather than allocating more time for essays at this point?

Hope everyone is feeling good in the homestretch


Pointless to think about "auto-pass" because you cannot assure a super high score on the MBE. Would be a crazy dangerous gamble to bet only on the MBE. If you totally tank a few essays and/or the PT, the MBE will not save you. There's two weeks left, practice as many essays as possible. Even if you can't write out full essays every day, review a ton of essays for issue spotting.

CRKay91
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CRKay91 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:09 pm

barjamie8 wrote:
varcom24 wrote:around what MBE score do ppl think will get you in essentially auto-pass zone? I scored in 70th percentile on Barbri simulated MBE, but feeling shaky on essays (have only done a handful of practice essays, focused on the subject predictions from that Dr. guy and pretty much ignoring the rest of the essays). Wondering if I'm better off just hammering MBE to get that as high as possible, rather than allocating more time for essays at this point?

Hope everyone is feeling good in the homestretch


Pointless to think about "auto-pass" because you cannot assure a super high score on the MBE. Would be a crazy dangerous gamble to bet only on the MBE. If you totally tank a few essays and/or the PT, the MBE will not save you. There's two weeks left, practice as many essays as possible. Even if you can't write out full essays every day, review a ton of essays for issue spotting.


Good advice regardless, but I'm not sure that it follows from accurate analysis. The One-Timers Calculator suggests that a 150/200 raw score would allow you to pass with 50s on all 5 essays and a 50 on the PT. With a 140/200 raw, it shows you could pass with 55s on essays and PT.

Obviously not suggesting that anyone rely on this, but with court taking control of scores (and almost certain to lower the passing threshold), seems like a 140-150/200 raw MBE score will put you in a decent place to pass with weak (55-60) essays, especially if you can also do ok on the PT.

barjamie8
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby barjamie8 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:51 pm

CRKay91 wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
varcom24 wrote:around what MBE score do ppl think will get you in essentially auto-pass zone? I scored in 70th percentile on Barbri simulated MBE, but feeling shaky on essays (have only done a handful of practice essays, focused on the subject predictions from that Dr. guy and pretty much ignoring the rest of the essays). Wondering if I'm better off just hammering MBE to get that as high as possible, rather than allocating more time for essays at this point?

Hope everyone is feeling good in the homestretch


Pointless to think about "auto-pass" because you cannot assure a super high score on the MBE. Would be a crazy dangerous gamble to bet only on the MBE. If you totally tank a few essays and/or the PT, the MBE will not save you. There's two weeks left, practice as many essays as possible. Even if you can't write out full essays every day, review a ton of essays for issue spotting.


Good advice regardless, but I'm not sure that it follows from accurate analysis. The One-Timers Calculator suggests that a 150/200 raw score would allow you to pass with 50s on all 5 essays and a 50 on the PT. With a 140/200 raw, it shows you could pass with 55s on essays and PT.

Obviously not suggesting that anyone rely on this, but with court taking control of scores (and almost certain to lower the passing threshold), seems like a 140-150/200 raw MBE score will put you in a decent place to pass with weak (55-60) essays, especially if you can also do ok on the PT.


What happens if you miss a few more MBEs than expected and get a 135? Or what if you get a few essays below 55 or 50 on the PT? There are a ton of PT and essays that scored 50s on baressays.com, and it's possible many of these people bet on the MBE as well and failed. There's really no point thinking about tanking the essays. You have 2 weeks which is a ton of time to practice essays and assure you do well on at least some of them. Do the work on the essays from here on out and you'll be fine.

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t-14orbust
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby t-14orbust » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:58 pm

CRKay91 wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
varcom24 wrote:around what MBE score do ppl think will get you in essentially auto-pass zone? I scored in 70th percentile on Barbri simulated MBE, but feeling shaky on essays (have only done a handful of practice essays, focused on the subject predictions from that Dr. guy and pretty much ignoring the rest of the essays). Wondering if I'm better off just hammering MBE to get that as high as possible, rather than allocating more time for essays at this point?

Hope everyone is feeling good in the homestretch


Pointless to think about "auto-pass" because you cannot assure a super high score on the MBE. Would be a crazy dangerous gamble to bet only on the MBE. If you totally tank a few essays and/or the PT, the MBE will not save you. There's two weeks left, practice as many essays as possible. Even if you can't write out full essays every day, review a ton of essays for issue spotting.


Good advice regardless, but I'm not sure that it follows from accurate analysis. The One-Timers Calculator suggests that a 150/200 raw score would allow you to pass with 50s on all 5 essays and a 50 on the PT. With a 140/200 raw, it shows you could pass with 55s on essays and PT.

Obviously not suggesting that anyone rely on this, but with court taking control of scores (and almost certain to lower the passing threshold), seems like a 140-150/200 raw MBE score will put you in a decent place to pass with weak (55-60) essays, especially if you can also do ok on the PT.


Except that the raw score is out of 175 not 200. 150/175 means getting ~86% of the scored questions correct, which highly unlikely. 140/175 raw would mean 80% correct and place you around the 80th%ile of test takers. Don't count on it

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CAnow
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:13 pm

Annihilist wrote:
a male human wrote:
Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP

Untouched? Boy, am I reading this right? Are you sure your username isn't "Annihilated"?

Don't even think about lectures at this point. They will tire you out, and you won't remember jack. That's 3-4 extra hours you could spend on practice and learning:

Reserve two days for each of the untouched MBE subjects (~10 hrs each day)
- first day for doing a bunch of MBE problems and reviewing them and redoing them (open + closed book)
- second day for doing and reviewing a broad range of essays -- some full, mostly outlined (issues and rules only), some closed book -- redo until you can do them all closed book

MBE is the most heavily weighted section starting July, which is why there's a full day for each MBE subject.

For each of the remaining five days, split the day into a subject you've already looked at (there should be 5) and a state subject you haven't reviewed (another 5). These state subjects are relatively less of a priority, so we're giving them half day. Do a handful of MBE questions at night to keep yourself going there.

And put PR last because its appearance is virtually assured, and you want it to be the freshest in your mind.

So in sum:
Days 1-6: 3 MBE subjects
Days 7-11: Review of previous subjects + learning the 5 state subjects you didn't touch

Day 12?
Try to get some sleep on Monday. Hope that the adrenaline and bullshit bubbling within you will carry you through. Also, consider answering the essays in an order that makes you feel comfortable. For example, do the ones you know better first (put your answers in the right screen in Softest!).

Review MBE on Tuesday night. It's only two days long now, so it shouldn't even be THAT bad in terms of endurance (why, back in MY days... ...)

Honestly this is the biggest hail mary I've seen and I can't guarantee anything. This is just what I would do if I were in your situation. What even happened to get into this situation in the first place? What have you gone through? :(


Family Issues, Hubris, Procrastination Snowball, False Comfort of that Tech Genius who studied for 100 hours and passed.

Wish me luck (read: stamina).


If you are an audio learner like I am, it would be useful to have lectures playing during times that you are not doing practice questions, such as while you are eating, brushing your teeth, or going to bed waiting to fall asleep. In addition, whenever you need a "break" from studying (which you undoubtedly will by studying 10 hours per day), play a lecture and get up, stretch, and walk around while the audio is playing. Don't bother with the accompanying handouts, as that will just put pressure on you to fill in the blanks, which is time & effort better spent on doing practice questions.

Also try to focus on reviewing areas within your untouched subjects that you are unfamiliar with. For example, if Contracts is an untouched subject, surely you still remember how to form a contract, but maybe you are rusty on assignment & delegation - go straight to the back and start reviewing assignment & delegation. Start with a condensed outline (I use magicsheets - thank you kind sir), and go to a bigger outline only when you need a more detailed explanation on a particular topic.

maxmartin
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby maxmartin » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:02 pm

NYC2012 wrote:P sure OP was joking when he said the CA Supreme Court would raise the cut score. They are going to lower it for sure. By how much is the real question. And, will it apply to us???


All the articles I read said the new cut score will be released in Sep and it will apply to July exam. I hope it will apply to July 2016, LOL, I got 1430 in that one.

DportIA
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby DportIA » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:18 pm

t-14orbust wrote:
CRKay91 wrote:
barjamie8 wrote:
varcom24 wrote:
Except that the raw score is out of 175 not 200. 150/175 means getting ~86% of the scored questions correct, which highly unlikely. 140/175 raw would mean 80% correct and place you around the 80th%ile of test takers. Don't count on it


I think the One-Timers calculator is actually out of 190; they refer to people taking the attorneys' essay-only exam to put 128 in the MBE slot. As CA generally requires a 68% on the MBE to be on track (generally yielding the 144 scaled), 128/175=73% and 128/190=67.4%.

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goldenflash19
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby goldenflash19 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:11 pm

Annihilist wrote:Situation: You have 11 days left to study. You have 8 subjects left completely untouched (3 MBE / 5 State). First half of topics were studied thoroughly - 40-50 MBE questions and a practice essay or two. Have done some sample PTs and are satisfied.

How do you rush these last 8 subjects? How do you allocate last 11 days? E.g., Read hyper-condensed outlines for them and just muscle through practice Q's/essays (think: Magicsheets).

Do you continue with Barbri lectures/CMR continuing 1 topic per day with 25-40 MBEs and an essay per topic, finishing the topics with only a couple days before the exam to circle back for any review?

HALLLLLLLLP


I would recommend putting more prep into PR than the other essays. It's almost a guarantee to be tested at least partially, and if there's a whole essay on it, you could gain a lot of points that would buffer the rest of your essays. An 80 would basically allow you to pull three 60 scores up to 65.

CP also has a good chance of being tested. If you can nail CP and PR, you should be in decent shape.

Get at least familiar with the PT's so you can at least pull at 65 on it. They don't take a ton of prep time, and knowing how to format them will get you points off the bat.

Good luck! You can do this!




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