2017 July California Bar

justanotheruser
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby justanotheruser » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:54 pm

maxmartin wrote:Graders might tighten the grades in anticipation of the lower passing score. Now the passing score is upheld, let's see if we are fu..ed. It is so unfair to see the first time NY pass rate is around 86% for ABA schools. LOL


I'd think they'd be a little more generous with the grading, if anything.

maxmartin
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby maxmartin » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:06 pm

justanotheruser wrote:
maxmartin wrote:Graders might tighten the grades in anticipation of the lower passing score. Now the passing score is upheld, let's see if we are fu..ed. It is so unfair to see the first time NY pass rate is around 86% for ABA schools. LOL


I'd think they'd be a little more generous with the grading, if anything.


No, because grading was mostly done before the court announcement.

DportIA
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby DportIA » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:28 pm

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but even if the essay graders tightened their scores (i.e., each Joe Q. Grader gives an average score of 58 this year rather than 60 last year), aren't final essay scores still derived from plotting all test takers' raw essay scores on the distribution from the national MBE percentiles? In that case, increasing nation-wide MBE scores greatly help CA bar essay scores.

So if the graders go low on everyone, the curve (and everyone's final essay score) is still set by their rank with the other co-test takers plotted on the nationwide MBE curve.

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Alt123
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Alt123 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:46 pm

yeslekkkk wrote:22 days friends.


Way too fucking long.

My days go by so slow at this point. I am sick and tired of laying in bed trying to sleep and instead envisioning myself failing this fucking exam.

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:22 pm

DportIA wrote:Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but even if the essay graders tightened their scores (i.e., each Joe Q. Grader gives an average score of 58 this year rather than 60 last year), aren't final essay scores still derived from plotting all test takers' raw essay scores on the distribution from the national MBE percentiles? In that case, increasing nation-wide MBE scores greatly help CA bar essay scores.

So if the graders go low on everyone, the curve (and everyone's final essay score) is still set by their rank with the other co-test takers plotted on the nationwide MBE curve.

My take is that you're on the right track: The raw score is eventually converted into a scaled score. The exact statistical methodology is beyond my knowledge. I'm not sure if it's based on a curve (against other applicants). Personally, I don't believe there's a set curve; otherwise, they would either say so or we'd see a fairly consistent pass rate.

Ultimately, they come up with a scaling formula that converts raw to scaled that is unique to each exam (they stopped publishing this for a while). That's the entire point of scaling -- to try to make each exam equivalent to the others. If there was grader bias in either direction, that will be baked into the scaling (theoretically).

I'm not sure whether the MBE is relevant whatsoever in determining the written portion of the exam. AFAIK, they're graded separately. What matters is that your scaled MBE score + scaled written score >= 1440. Incidentally, this means you don't "pass" the essays or the MBE separately. 65 is not a "passing" score. You either pass the whole exam or you don't.

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yeslekkkk
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby yeslekkkk » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:48 pm

Alt123 wrote:
yeslekkkk wrote:22 days friends.


Way too fucking long.

My days go by so slow at this point. I am sick and tired of laying in bed trying to sleep and instead envisioning myself failing this fucking exam.


I've been pretty chill about it and haven't thought about it much... maybe a thought here and there. BUT as of this past week, I keep thinking about it. I WANT TO KNOW NOW.

InterAlia1961
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:22 pm

I'm in a foul one tonight. Just got nixed on a loan for an investment property because of my student loan debt. Dude told me to come back once I was licensed. Who the hell knows when that will be? I haven't even applied for admission yet. Don't want to if I can't pass the exam. Why cough up more money to the State of California?

mcmand
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:38 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:I'm in a foul one tonight. Just got nixed on a loan for an investment property because of my student loan debt. Dude told me to come back once I was licensed. Who the hell knows when that will be? I haven't even applied for admission yet. Don't want to if I can't pass the exam. Why cough up more money to the State of California?


Silver lining: you have the cash for a down payment on a loan for an investment property.

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CAnow
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:58 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:I'm in a foul one tonight. Just got nixed on a loan for an investment property because of my student loan debt. Dude told me to come back once I was licensed. Who the hell knows when that will be? I haven't even applied for admission yet. Don't want to if I can't pass the exam. Why cough up more money to the State of California?


Try a different lender.

And then when you do get licensed, write this first lender a nice letter, addressed directly to the dork who said come back when your licensed, telling him that you are now licensed and oh by the way a different lender approved my loan so I won't be needing your services anymore - you snooze, you lose.

I-object
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby I-object » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:43 pm

What a strange predicament.

Was grading during the cut score hearing favorable or damaging?

How did the graders grade during the cut score hearing? Were they stricter ?, scrutinizing every detail in anticipation of change and need to provide balanced grading?

How did they score immediately thereafter ? were they merciful knowing the cut score remained the same. ?

And if they are still grading How are they grading now?

A cautious wait indeed , different than the past.

I, like many, dread the results. Ive been through it enough times to know, for many. there is no mercy and many will fall. I know that pain. I know the work that follows.

We don't know. And the results will be as they are.

All I can do is have faith that we did well enough to pass this strange session. If not, then seek to master where we failed.

Perhaps we can also hope and pray.

I Hope that essays 4 and 5 will be graded fairly. Those were my best essays.

I Pray that essay 2 was less scrutinized. It created the most controversy.

So we wait.

Thanks to all for the insight, opinions , ideas , explanations during the cut score hearings.

I wish everyone here the best.

Good Luck my friends, companions, princes and princesses of this lonely yet splendid domain

JoeSeperac
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby JoeSeperac » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:56 pm

When NY released its results, I was surprised that the pass rates went up even though the pool of domestic applicants was considered less-able. For example, 75th Percentile LSAT was 159.3 in 2012, 158.9 in 2013, 158.7 in 2014, 158.4 in 2015 and 157.2 in 2016. For 25th Percentile LSAT, it was 153.2 in 2012, 152.8 in 2013, 152.5 in 2014, 152.4 in 2015 and 151.2 in 2016. This should had led to a reduction in pass rates but it didn't and I have a theory as to why. The amount of examinees sitting for the exam has been steadily dropping while the pass rates have also been dropping. This has led to a significant reduction in the amount of annual barred attorneys. For example, in 2016, only 42,641 examinees passed the bar exam nationwide. It was at least over 20 years ago that the bar examiners produced such a low number of barred attorneys (my data only goes back to 1996). For example, in 1996, 73,944 examinees took the exam while 51,974 passed, resulting in a pass rate of 70%. Currently the overall pass rate is at 58%. I think the bar examiners have no choice but to let some examinees pass that normally wouldn't pave passed to prop up the 2017 supply of attorneys. Accordingly, I think CA pass rates will be up for the July 2017 exam simply because there will be too few barred attorneys if they don't have more examinees pass.

Year Taking Passing %pass
2016 74,092 42,641 58%
2015 77,437 45,993 59%
2014 80,913 51,808 64%
2013 83,986 57,026 68%
2012 82,920 55,253 67%
2011 80,261 55,387 69%
2010 79,953 54,448 68%
2009 79,125 54,027 68%
2008 80,319 56,915 71%
2007 81,451 54,800 67%
2006 83,271 55,394 67%
2005 80,557 51,958 64%
2004 77,246 49,136 64%
2003 75,058 47,868 64%
2002 73,065 45,883 63%
2001 72,838 48,114 66%
2000 72,704 47,160 65%
1999 73,970 48,556 66%
1998 73,836 48,622 66%
1997 73,944 51,974 70%
1996 74,094 51,723 70%

Fiddlesticks
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby Fiddlesticks » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:18 pm

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Last edited by Fiddlesticks on Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CAnow
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:33 am

Fiddlesticks wrote:Hi all, Hope you all passed. I had a question for those of you who just went through this.

The moral character online application asks...List all "current and previous employment since age 18 that were law related and current and previous employment, not law related, that lasted longer than 6 months with ... "

My question is what about year-to-year seasonal employment? Specifically, working from May to August only, but on a yearly basis.


Not sure what the state's take is, but I would say that if the time you worked there added up to six months or more (e.g. 3 months the first summer + 3 months the second summer), go ahead and include it.

Besides, if that employer invited you back for a second season, it must be because they think you are a good worker. Employers with good things to say about you are employers you WANT included in your character application.

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:48 am

Fun ways to spook your friends who took the CA bar this Halloween:

- Write them a fake letter saying they failed the bar or passed the bar (they'll be disappointed either way)
- Remind them that they'll know results by the time the next holiday comes around
- Ask them about their six-figure student loans with interest billowing up by the day

Too much?

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fear_no_evil
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby fear_no_evil » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:31 am

I-object wrote:What a strange predicament.

Was grading during the cut score hearing favorable or damaging?

How did the graders grade during the cut score hearing? Were they stricter ?, scrutinizing every detail in anticipation of change and need to provide balanced grading?

How did they score immediately thereafter ? were they merciful knowing the cut score remained the same. ?

And if they are still grading How are they grading now? ...



I think it's very likely grading was done before Supreme Ct issued the decision Oct 18th. If that is true, did the Ct confer with the State Bar about projected pass rate before issuing decision? A decision not to adjust cut score makes a lot of since if the Bar revealed a projection that the pass rate will be significantly higher based on the grading completed thus far.

mcmand
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:32 am

a male human wrote:Fun ways to spook your friends who took the CA bar this Halloween:

- Write them a fake letter saying they failed the bar or passed the bar (they'll be disappointed either way)
- Remind them that they'll know results by the time the next holiday comes around
- Ask them about their six-figure student loans with interest billowing up by the day

Too much?


Excellent gallows humor. Would laugh again . A+.

InterAlia1961
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:06 pm

a male human wrote:Fun ways to spook your friends who took the CA bar this Halloween:

- Write them a fake letter saying they failed the bar or passed the bar (they'll be disappointed either way)
- Remind them that they'll know results by the time the next holiday comes around
- Ask them about their six-figure student loans with interest billowing up by the day

Too much?


Not sure you fully appreciate the meaning of "friend." 8)

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:29 pm

InterAlia1961 wrote:
a male human wrote:Fun ways to spook your friends who took the CA bar this Halloween:

- Write them a fake letter saying they failed the bar or passed the bar (they'll be disappointed either way)
- Remind them that they'll know results by the time the next holiday comes around
- Ask them about their six-figure student loans with interest billowing up by the day

Too much?


Not sure you fully appreciate the meaning of "friend." 8)

At this point, I need to take what I can get.

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yeslekkkk
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby yeslekkkk » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:23 pm

Thanks California Bar for sending me an email informing of the date and time of the release of results. I HAD COMPLETELY FORGOT... jk. *sitting here anxiously

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CAnow
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby CAnow » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:15 pm

yeslekkkk wrote:Thanks California Bar for sending me an email informing of the date and time of the release of results. I HAD COMPLETELY FORGOT... jk. *sitting here anxiously


I was freaking out when I saw this on my phone:

admissions_correspondence@ca...
July 2017 California Bar Examination
Results from the July 2017 administration
of the California Bar Examination are...

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a male human
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby a male human » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:25 pm

Nice spook by the State Bar

andme
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby andme » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:39 pm

Checking in!

LockBox
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby LockBox » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:57 pm

I know it's easier said than done, but life goes on after the bar whether you pass or fail. I'm not sure this helps at all. I know, for me, the wait in the days and weeks leading up to results were by far the hardest. My suggestion would be to formulate a plan for the worst and be ready to implement when it's time.

mcmand
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby mcmand » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:56 pm

I had a horrible and vivid nightmare that I failed the exam last night. Slept like garbage as a result. Woke up with a headache to that stupid email.
Fuck the CA bar exam.

InterAlia1961
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Re: 2017 July California Bar

Postby InterAlia1961 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:31 am

mcmand wrote:I had a horrible and vivid nightmare that I failed the exam last night. Slept like garbage as a result. Woke up with a headache to that stupid email.
Fuck the CA bar exam.


I hear you. I'm expending a lot of mental energy trying NOT to think about it.




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