How confident do you feel?

wellbeit
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby wellbeit » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:18 pm

eatthebarforlunch wrote:the call asked about what the nonbio fathers best argument for visitation agreement would be not a custody agreement. This best interest of child based on the facts was that nonbio father should have some visitation.


Troxel v. Granvillle held that states considering non-parent visitstion petitions must apply "a presumption that fit parents act in the best interests of their children."

In this situation, the court does not use the usual best interest of the child standard. There would need to be a compelling governmental interest to overcome a parent's decision.

The issue then I suppose is whether one qualifies as a parent.

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cnk1220
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby cnk1220 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:36 pm

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Last edited by cnk1220 on Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

babylonianprincess
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby babylonianprincess » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:38 pm

happyhour1122 wrote:
lawdeeedaw wrote:
cnk1220 wrote:
eatthebarforlunch wrote:licensed attorney here> non-bio father would get some form of visitation akin to grandparents. THe facts said the girl called him dad and that the bio father was not really involved. additionally he had been in her life since she was 2-3 and is now presumptive 12-13. It would not be in the best interest of the child to cut all contact since she has a father daughter relationship. Court would ask child if she wants contact and will likely order some form of visitation even if it is just dinner once a month.



I respectfully disagree- 3P visitation defers to a bio parent's determination of what is in the best interests of the child provided bio parent is fit, mom was fit here. Court is not going to override what a bio mom sees is in the best interests of her child re: visitation. That goes to the whole constitutuonal right to privacy for parents to decide issues concerning control of children. I think the child's age issue comes more into play when the father is actually the paternal father and he has DP rights to his child too when the court is making a custody/visitation issue and the child is both biologically theirs.

The fact she called him dad doesn't matter, people call their boyfriend's kids dad all the time, that wouldn't establish a legal relationship either...I don't remember him taking steps to legally adopt her.



I agree that it would be a violation of the parents constitutional rights if it was a custody agreement. Here we are discussing visitation, which does not hinder a natural parents rights to parent or make decisions for the child.

When a nonparent asks a court for visitation rights, they must show that visitation is in the best interests of the child. When determining if visitation rights are appropriate, courts consider a number of factors, including:

The child's relationship with the nonparent;
The relationship between the nonparent and the child's parent or guardian;
The last time the child had contact with the nonparent;
The effect the visitation will have on the relationship between child and legal guardian;
How visitation will impact the time the child has to visit with his or her biological parents or other family members;
Any history of physical, sexual, or emotional abuse or neglect by the nonparent; and
Any other factor that the court thinks is relevant to granting or denying nonparent visitation rights.

As well as taking into consideration the child's wishes, which are not determinative, but considered. You are correct Troxel, did state that visitation statute violated due process, but many states still have visitation statutes on the books that remain intact.

I think what they wanted was the discussion that yes, it violates the due process rights of the parent to award custody to a non-parent, but the totality of the circumstances and the best interest of the child could be considered. Especially when bio father was absent and not financially or emotionally supporting the child. Physiological parents/relatives are just important to a child as biological. Just my two cents.



omg I think we just all passed the bar


LOL same

ChocolateMilk
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby ChocolateMilk » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:41 pm

I keep on berating you guys and mumble to myself that discussion of bar exam questions is useless, but I keep on coming back and a checking...my relationship with this forum is toxic!

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:53 pm

I'm traumatized I'll fail again.

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:53 pm

ChocolateMilk wrote:I keep on berating you guys and mumble to myself that discussion of bar exam questions is useless, but I keep on coming back and a checking...my relationship with this forum is toxic!



The fact that I'm not the only one suffering makes me feel better :( so sad

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cnk1220
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby cnk1220 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:05 pm

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Last edited by cnk1220 on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:20 pm

cnk1220 wrote:I sounded like an CIRAC/IRAC robot in my essays- so monotone. Hoping that doesnt count against me.


That's what we had to I believe....

Bluem_11
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby Bluem_11 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:13 am

ChocolateMilk wrote:I keep on berating you guys and mumble to myself that discussion of bar exam questions is useless, but I keep on coming back and a checking...my relationship with this forum is toxic!


And farther away from the exam, the fuzzier your memory of the questions likely is, so even more useless discussing the exam!

Props to people who do remember MBE questions though. I think of MBE's I've taken, I remember maybe 5 questions walking out. Helps on the stress level haha!

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cnk1220
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby cnk1220 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:45 am

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Last edited by cnk1220 on Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:51 am

cnk1220 wrote:Pre-exam- everyone: why do you look so sad and stressed? me: i'm studying for the bar.
Post-exam- everyone: why do you still look sad and stressed? me: i'm waiting for the results.

:(



I hope we all pass....

Hokies2011
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby Hokies2011 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:33 am

Member of the Bar in Kentucky.

Taking VA for the first time.

Definitely thought the MBE was harder than I remembered. In VA essays weighted 60% and MBE 40%. Felt really positive about the essays. But the MBE was rough particularly the AM session.

Of the 200 questions, I can remember about 120ish or so. And of those 120ish, I felt pretty "confident" in my answers for 90ish. Rest I can't remember/have no clue.

With VA weighting the MBE at 40%, what is a good MBE Raw Score? 130?

Thanks, good luck to everyone!

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:30 pm

eatthebarforlunch wrote:on the contracts question I argues that because he had a 1/2 acre plot of tomatoes and that because he was introducing the tomatoes into the marketplace that the court would likely find him a merchant for the purpose of the transaction and that the firm offer rule would apply. I also stated the opposite that the firm offer rule would not apply if he was not considered a merchant by the court. But in the end I argued that he would be considered a merchant for purposes of the transaction and that because the option was signed no consideration was necessary because both are merchants. FYI, I am a licensed attorney who works as in house counsel and I deal with contracts every day.



§ 2-104. Definitions: "Merchant"
(1) "Merchant" means a person who deals in goods of the kind or otherwise by his occupation holds himself out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to the practices or goods involved in the transaction or to whom such knowledge or skill may be attributed by his employment of an agent or broker or other intermediary who by his occupation holds himself out as having such knowledge or skill.

All of the facts indicated that the tomato growing was a hobby and that he was unskilled. I said he wasn't a merchant. Labeling someone as a merchant for making a single transaction that they have never made before is contrary to the UCC caselaw/comments. They wanted you to show that all the requirements were met, except for the merchant requirement. Since it wasn't a merchant firm offer, it should have been analyzed as an option contract. There wasn't any consideration, so the option contract was never created. As such, the tomato grower was not bound. Further, since it was merely an offer, he revoked the offer before the cook gave his acceptance over the phone (sub issue).

ProspectiveStudent69
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby ProspectiveStudent69 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:44 pm

wellbeit wrote:
eatthebarforlunch wrote:the call asked about what the nonbio fathers best argument for visitation agreement would be not a custody agreement. This best interest of child based on the facts was that nonbio father should have some visitation.


Troxel v. Granvillle held that states considering non-parent visitstion petitions must apply "a presumption that fit parents act in the best interests of their children."

In this situation, the court does not use the usual best interest of the child standard. There would need to be a compelling governmental interest to overcome a parent's decision.

The issue then I suppose is whether one qualifies as a parent.



I agree with your analysis.

Biological parents have a Due Process right to visitation. Non-biological parents do not. Plus, the facts only said she called him dad and that they were close. These facts were supposed to give examinees a warm fuzzy feeling and distract them from the MEE law. Do some states give more rights to non-biological parents? Sure, but that's not what is tested on the MEE. The law taught in the Barbri MEE outlines basically says that non-biological parents need to adopt or sign the birth certificate to receive visitation rights. Could you have included the best interest analysis? Sure, but the father who is still fit to be a parent can object which automatically negates the best interest analysis (Troxel). The existence of two fit biological parents is given special weight under best interest analysis as well. Input from children under 8 is given little weight. Upon reflection, you could have analyzed using best interests, but the facts weighed heavily in favor of finding no visitation rights.

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lolabear727
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby lolabear727 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:09 pm

reasonableperson wrote:MEE UBE Corporations Question - Were we suppose to argue for the SH or against them. I initially started pro SH, but then saw that we were supposed to be writing from the corporation counsel's prospective, which made me figure we were to defend the corporation's actions. I quickly reversed my opinion on all counts.

Wasn't till after the exam that I realized that corporation counsel could have been pro-SH, especially in light of the serious charges. Did some reading and it seems to be the justified. Don't know, seems like going pro SH was much easier to write about, especially with the "highly reputable newspaper article, etc."



Agreed. I wrote pro-SH and harped on the "reputable newspaper article." :D Either we are both right, or both wrong...

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lolabear727
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby lolabear727 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:36 pm

yankeeman86 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:
yankeeman86 wrote:generally does the media have a right to view a state prison execution? i think no, thus no compelling reason needed from a state actor.


I know I chose A for that. Don't remeber the question....fully tho


hypothetically, if someone drops a vase onto someone's foot and injures that person and says "it's my fault, don't worry i'll pay for it" - is that a party admission or statement against interest. assume we don't know if he is or isn't at court.


I think I said "party admission." And the paying for it part won't come in. Unless there was an actual dispute at the time. (or is no dispute... :? )

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:36 pm

lolabear727 wrote:
yankeeman86 wrote:
happyhour1122 wrote:
yankeeman86 wrote:generally does the media have a right to view a state prison execution? i think no, thus no compelling reason needed from a state actor.


I know I chose A for that. Don't remeber the question....fully tho


hypothetically, if someone drops a vase onto someone's foot and injures that person and says "it's my fault, don't worry i'll pay for it" - is that a party admission or statement against interest. assume we don't know if he is or isn't at court.


I think I said "party admission." And the paying for it part won't come in. Unless there was an actual dispute at the time. (or is no dispute... :? )


In order for it to be against interest, the declaration must be unavailable. I don't know if the declaration was available or not. But I think i said party admission. But,the question was to test you whether you know "disputed" issue. There was no dispute so most likely party admission.

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:18 pm

I just realized I didn't define ratification in agent question

I should have said ratification is when "principal has knowledge of all material facts or contract tersm AND approves the same through words or conduct..." I just said he ratified by taking the benefits and should still pay despite agent's failure to disclose to the third party. OMG why am I even thinking about this...help....

I think i failed

eatthebarforlunch
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby eatthebarforlunch » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:16 pm

ProspectiveStudent69 wrote:
wellbeit wrote:
eatthebarforlunch wrote:the call asked about what the nonbio fathers best argument for visitation agreement would be not a custody agreement. This best interest of child based on the facts was that nonbio father should have some visitation.


Troxel v. Granvillle held that states considering non-parent visitstion petitions must apply "a presumption that fit parents act in the best interests of their children."

In this situation, the court does not use the usual best interest of the child standard. There would need to be a compelling governmental interest to overcome a parent's decision.

The issue then I suppose is whether one qualifies as a parent.



I agree with your analysis.

Biological parents have a Due Process right to visitation. Non-biological parents do not. Plus, the facts only said she called him dad and that they were close. These facts were supposed to give examinees a warm fuzzy feeling and distract them from the MEE law. Do some states give more rights to non-biological parents? Sure, but that's not what is tested on the MEE. The law taught in the Barbri MEE outlines basically says that non-biological parents need to adopt or sign the birth certificate to receive visitation rights. Could you have included the best interest analysis? Sure, but the father who is still fit to be a parent can object which automatically negates the best interest analysis (Troxel). The existence of two fit biological parents is given special weight under best interest analysis as well. Input from children under 8 is given little weight. Upon reflection, you could have analyzed using best interests, but the facts weighed heavily in favor of finding no visitation rights.



Here's the deal. Trox is not absolute. The biggest issue here was the bond between the child and the nonbio because he did act as a parent for a period of time (10) years. The best interest of the child would be considered here because although there were 2 fit parents the bio dad had so little contact that it is arguable that he had abandon the child. The answers on the exam are not absolute and it is truthfully the better you can use the facts and argue a point the more likely you will do well.

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lolabear727
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby lolabear727 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:56 pm

happyhour1122 wrote:I just realized I didn't define ratification in agent question

I should have said ratification is when "principal has knowledge of all material facts or contract tersm AND approves the same through words or conduct..." I just said he ratified by taking the benefits and should still pay despite agent's failure to disclose to the third party. OMG why am I even thinking about this...help....

I think i failed


Well.. instead of putting "ratification" I called it "assent" because my mind went blank. I went through the meaning and stuff but still did not mention the correct term. I of course later checked a thesaurus online and they are the same word. However, that made me feel like a complete idiot.

I'm sure you did fine! This is my second bar. FL - 2015. So I felt somewhat confident about the essays. But the MBE this time really threw me for a loop. Please sweet baby jesus let me pass. I have no more vacation days left for July prep!

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lolabear727
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby lolabear727 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:58 pm

Did anyone not finish all of the MPT or MEEs this go round? Or do you know anyone who didn't?

My friend who took July 2016 said that she knew someone that did not finish 2 of the MEEs and still passed. Just curious.. :wink:

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:12 pm

lolabear727 wrote:Did anyone not finish all of the MPT or MEEs this go round? Or do you know anyone who didn't?

My friend who took July 2016 said that she knew someone that did not finish 2 of the MEEs and still passed. Just curious.. :wink:



not sure about two....i know my friend didn't finish 1... MEE (LLC). he passed.

eatthebarforlunch
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby eatthebarforlunch » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:17 pm

lolabear727 wrote:Did anyone not finish all of the MPT or MEEs this go round? Or do you know anyone who didn't?

My friend who took July 2016 said that she knew someone that did not finish 2 of the MEEs and still passed. Just curious.. :wink:


on MPT 1 I ran out of time. I felt the meat of the points were in issue 1 and 3. I spent the majority of the time on Q1 gave good facts on Q2 and outlined Q3 and said their best option was to wait until the case was over to hire her.

happyhour1122
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby happyhour1122 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:21 pm

eatthebarforlunch wrote:
lolabear727 wrote:Did anyone not finish all of the MPT or MEEs this go round? Or do you know anyone who didn't?

My friend who took July 2016 said that she knew someone that did not finish 2 of the MEEs and still passed. Just curious.. :wink:


on MPT 1 I ran out of time. I felt the meat of the points were in issue 1 and 3. I spent the majority of the time on Q1 gave good facts on Q2 and outlined Q3 and said their best option was to wait until the case was over to hire her.



I don't know what I said in MPT 1 and didn't even follow instructions for MPT 2 (I added discussion section because only adding "facts" and "law" didn't seem right..... if I pass, MPT is not big a deal.

I

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lolabear727
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Re: How confident do you feel?

Postby lolabear727 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:36 am

eatthebarforlunch wrote:
lolabear727 wrote:Did anyone not finish all of the MPT or MEEs this go round? Or do you know anyone who didn't?

My friend who took July 2016 said that she knew someone that did not finish 2 of the MEEs and still passed. Just curious.. :wink:


on MPT 1 I ran out of time. I felt the meat of the points were in issue 1 and 3. I spent the majority of the time on Q1 gave good facts on Q2 and outlined Q3 and said their best option was to wait until the case was over to hire her.



That's almost exactly what I did. I came to the same conclusion.




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