Cal Bar --> might lower passing score

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cnk1220

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Re: Cal Bar --> might lower passing score

Postby cnk1220 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:42 am

Good. The pass rate is ridic in CA. No exam should be bordering less than 50%. It's clearly a for profit tactic just like the baby bar... especially when some states have an 80% pass rate- also I'm not in CA nor have I taken the CA bar-- just my opinion b/c it's seemingly unfair to students piling on debt + app fees + costs of taking the bar several times when they could just hop on board with every other state who's hovering around mid 60%.

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TFALAWL

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Re: Cal Bar --> might lower passing score

Postby TFALAWL » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:30 am

cnk1220 wrote:Good. The pass rate is ridic in CA. No exam should be bordering less than 50%. It's clearly a for profit tactic just like the baby bar... especially when some states have an 80% pass rate- also I'm not in CA nor have I taken the CA bar-- just my opinion b/c it's seemingly unfair to students piling on debt + app fees + costs of taking the bar several times when they could just hop on board with every other state who's hovering around mid 60%.



Well said. I failed CalBar by a smidgeon (143 --> need 144 to pass) -- would've passed UBE easily -- ridiculous.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Cal Bar --> might lower passing score

Postby rcharter1978 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:41 am

Meh, I wonder how many passers are in favor of the CBX being easier to pass. The test is a bear, but it does mean something when you say you've passed the CBX. Also, California has too many people in law school and not enough jobs for JDs, so I'm not sure what the upside is. People who don't pass the bar can still get JD advantage jobs but right now, there isn't a great need for more attorneys

Sadly, I think the answer is going to be trimming the number of law schools.

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TFALAWL

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Re: Cal Bar --> might lower passing score

Postby TFALAWL » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:37 am

rcharter1978 wrote:Meh, I wonder how many passers are in favor of the CBX being easier to pass. The test is a bear, but it does mean something when you say you've passed the CBX. Also, California has too many people in law school and not enough jobs for JDs, so I'm not sure what the upside is. People who don't pass the bar can still get JD advantage jobs but right now, there isn't a great need for more attorneys

Sadly, I think the answer is going to be trimming the number of law schools.


Respectfully, any decent person would realize that the burden one incurs by failing the bar (up to 10k in total costs) is shittier than the petty pride one gets in saying "hooray, I passed the California Bar on my first attempt."

Also, you're second point has a false premise: plenty of people who fail the bar did well at some of the best schools -- it's not a perfect metric of who is ready to become an attorney.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Cal Bar --> might lower passing score

Postby rcharter1978 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:28 am

TFALAWL wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:Meh, I wonder how many passers are in favor of the CBX being easier to pass. The test is a bear, but it does mean something when you say you've passed the CBX. Also, California has too many people in law school and not enough jobs for JDs, so I'm not sure what the upside is. People who don't pass the bar can still get JD advantage jobs but right now, there isn't a great need for more attorneys

Sadly, I think the answer is going to be trimming the number of law schools.


Respectfully, any decent person would realize that the burden one incurs by failing the bar (up to 10k in total costs) is shittier than the petty pride one gets in saying "hooray, I passed the California Bar on my first attempt."

Also, you're second point has a false premise: plenty of people who fail the bar did well at some of the best schools -- it's not a perfect metric of who is ready to become an attorney.


LOL @ the idea that because you spent a lot of money you "deserve" to pass a bar exam. Huh? Or that because you spent money the test should be made easier so you can pass. Money buys you nothing but the education, and you don't deserve to pass because of it. However, you "deserve" a sense of pride for passing one of the most difficult bar exams in the country.

And I say this as someone who failed the first time I took the CBX. Never, ever did I think "why don't they just make the test easier so I can pass!" I thought "you know what, I have to work smarter and harder, because this test is a beast."

But when I found out I passed the second time, I had an overwhelming sense of pride because I knew how hard it was to pass the exam. If someone had made it easy, I wouldn't have felt the same.

There aren't "plenty" of people who went to the best law schools and fail. There is, at best, a substantial minority. But if you look at the top schools in CA, they all have first time pass rates close to the 90's. Which is fine. What you also fail to consider is that many of those that fail, take it a second, or third time and pass....without the need to make the exam any easier. Which underlies that the exam is passable, its just difficult.

As to my first point, I don't think its indecent to say that the pride you can carry in passing a difficult test is worth something significant. Anyone who spends the money and gives up on the CBX after one failure is behaving in a ridiculous manner. The vast majority of people who have even done okay in law school will be able to pass by their third attempt. There are some anomalies -- people who don't test well, people who get in their own head, people who just have a series of bad days whenever the exam rolls around....but those people exist in any jurisdiction. So again, no need to make the exam easier, and pretty good arguments to keep it as difficult.



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