Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Lottic
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Lottic » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:43 pm

Hi all,

Is there a recommended bar program for non-US law graduates?

I am a lawyer from Australia so English is not a problem and we are a common law jurisdiction.

I know there's an international Barbri course (£4500!!) and maybe another one or two out there but would there be any difference if i take non international programs like Themis, Adaptibar etc?

Would there be anything in the exams that the local bar programs don't cover but may be included in the international programs?

I am looking to take the NY bar exam in July 2017.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!

dollarsighs
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:49 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby dollarsighs » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:17 am

I know a former Barbri student (passed first time) and a Barbri course facilitator. The latter passed his bar using Themis (before becoming a Barbri facilitator) and recommended Themis to me, a South African law grad, as being perfectly adequate. He advised me that Barbri is content overkill and too time-consuming, whereas Themis is a fraction of the cost, its lectures are on demand and repeatable and it's more streamlined overall. The progress tracking tool is also pretty handy for keeping you on track.

I am writing in Feb 2017. So long as you feel you can dedicate the hours to self-study, then I think a program like Themis should be sufficient. You may want to supplement with AdaptiBar for practice MBE questions but I haven't gone this route as yet as it's an extra $360. Other popular option is Kaplan which I can't speak to. Best of luck for July! 8)

reasonable_man_03
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby reasonable_man_03 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:43 am

I am a foreign applicant. Passed the Ny Bar in Feb 2016. I took themis and adaptibar course. I can vouch for themis and adaptibar as a foreign applicant. You may not need to take adaptibar as it is only for MBE portion of the exam but i found it very useful. Got a lot of practice done begore the gameday.

I also had heard great things about barbri but I decided yo go for Themis as it was a much cheaper option.

just_me
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:34 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby just_me » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:25 pm

I'm just copying my post below (originally posted on another thread) in case it's helpful to you:

A bit of background: I am already a lawyer in the UK. So, I’m foreign-educated, but english-speaking.

There were many topics on the bar exam that I was already familiar with due to my studies/ experience in my home jurisdiction. However, there were also areas where the law diverges, and so I had to essentially “unlearn” certain facts and accept the opposite thing as true. Furthermore, there were areas of law about which I knew absolutely nothing (my knowledge of the U.S. constitution, for example, essentially amounted to seeing tv characters cite the fifth amendment).

I took Themis, and passed in New York in July 2016 with room to spare.

I feel as though the fact that I was able to pass - even with the added impediment of being foreign-educated - reflects well on the program. I’m pleased that I picked it, and didn’t spend thousands more dollars unnecessarily. I don’t think many people walk out of the bar exam feeling like they absolutely nailed it, but I felt as okay-ish as I think is possible. I remember feeling that, even if I’d failed, I couldn’t blame Themis - they’d pretty much covered all the bases.

Just one more point: throughout the process of studying, I saw references on TLS to various ways people were supplementing their bar prep program. Adaptibar, Emmanuel, Lean Sheets… to be honest, I didn’t fully know what any of these things were or how to go about getting them, and still don’t. I guess that’s the result of not going through this process with a cohort of others from law school - I did the whole thing independently, and just put my faith in Themis. From my experience, if you just follow their program, you’ll likely have enough on your plate, and there is no need to add other things into the mix!

Lottic
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Lottic » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:21 am

Thanks for the responses @dollarsighs @reasonable_man_03 @just_me they were all very helpful and i feel more confident about using Themis and Adaptibar (if required).

Just a few more questions for foreign applicants:

How early did you start studying for the exam? And did you travel a lot earlier to NY to take the exam?

I am in the process of applying for foreign legal education evaluation at BOLE (just sent all my supporting documents in). Do you remember how long it took before you received approval to register for the exam? Judging by the estimated time frame (6 months - 1 year), i don't think i will make the April application deadline for the July exam :(

Thanks!

UKATTORNEYUSA
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:38 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby UKATTORNEYUSA » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:44 am

Hello, I am a foreign NY bar taker and I have signed up to Themis for the July 2017 exam. I like the idea that you can start the program in March just as long as you pay $500. I live in London, UK and if you are interested in forming a study group using whatsapp/skype, email, then please let me know. I have taken the NY bar using Kaplan course and failed. I have also used barbri resources. I am hoping Themis would be able to help me pass in July. I took NY38 UBE in July 2016 and got a score of 238. I know my weakest subjects are contacts, real property and civil procedure.. My strongest subjects are criminal law, criminal procedure and evidence. Torts is my second strongest subject.

elleyo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:09 am

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby elleyo » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:40 am

Also UK educated, but US based. I'm planning on taking the July 2017 exam, and leaning towards Themis. I had my BOLE evaluation done a few years ago (I have obviously been procrastinating a lot!) and it took OVER a year before I got the final OK from the New York Board of Examiners, so plan accordingly.

Lottic
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Lottic » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:09 pm

For foreign applicants who have used Themis (or equivalent),

did you enrol in the standard bar program or the LLM bar program (starts earlier and includes US foundation subjects)?

Thanks

TXforeignlawyer
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:33 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby TXforeignlawyer » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:16 pm

Hello, I am a UK lawyer studying for the Texas bar next month. I'm using Barbri. I posted the same question as you in advance of choosing a course and there were mixed reviews so ultimately I chose Barbri as it seemed the most commonly used plus my colleagues had taken it so I got some feedback on it.

It is a lot more intense than I imagined. I think perhaps it would be okay ish if you have a full 8-10 weeks to dedicate to it. I'm working full-time so my time is mainly spent watch a lecture per day (3-3.5 hours) and then trying to do some practice questions assigned.

Any advice from those who have taken a bar prep course and found it overwhelming would be appreciated. I guess I feel that I need to now strategically plan my time - decide whether to watch the full lecture or get by on some topics reading/digesting then testing on them myself.

thanks

Lottic
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Lottic » Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:04 pm

TXforeignlawyer wrote:Hello, I am a UK lawyer studying for the Texas bar next month. I'm using Barbri. I posted the same question as you in advance of choosing a course and there were mixed reviews so ultimately I chose Barbri as it seemed the most commonly used plus my colleagues had taken it so I got some feedback on it.

It is a lot more intense than I imagined. I think perhaps it would be okay ish if you have a full 8-10 weeks to dedicate to it. I'm working full-time so my time is mainly spent watch a lecture per day (3-3.5 hours) and then trying to do some practice questions assigned.

Any advice from those who have taken a bar prep course and found it overwhelming would be appreciated. I guess I feel that I need to now strategically plan my time - decide whether to watch the full lecture or get by on some topics reading/digesting then testing on them myself.

thanks


Hi TXforeignlawyer, just out of interest, are you using the Barbri international programme? I got quoted US $5995 for it (or £4500).

I'm also working full time so would really like to hear from more foreign applicants on how much time is actually required to dedicate to studying.

On a side note, do you find it hard to switch from UK english spelling to US? :)

Thanks!

Bass
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:16 am

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Bass » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:20 am

Lottic wrote:For foreign applicants who have used Themis (or equivalent),

did you enrol in the standard bar program or the LLM bar program (starts earlier and includes US foundation subjects)?

Thanks


I'm using Themis LLM. Aiming to sit for the July 2017 New York Bar Exam.

Themis LLM comes with unformatted outlines, video lectures, lecture handouts, and loads of practice questions. The outlines appears shorter and more manageable than the outlines for Barbri I have seen.

Having said that, it remains to be seen whether I will be exam-ready by July. I started in mid-January and I spend about 3 hours daily working on Themis tasks.

just_me
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:34 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby just_me » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:06 pm

TXforeignlawyer wrote:Hello, I am a UK lawyer studying for the Texas bar next month. I'm using Barbri. I posted the same question as you in advance of choosing a course and there were mixed reviews so ultimately I chose Barbri as it seemed the most commonly used plus my colleagues had taken it so I got some feedback on it.

It is a lot more intense than I imagined. I think perhaps it would be okay ish if you have a full 8-10 weeks to dedicate to it. I'm working full-time so my time is mainly spent watch a lecture per day (3-3.5 hours) and then trying to do some practice questions assigned.

Any advice from those who have taken a bar prep course and found it overwhelming would be appreciated. I guess I feel that I need to now strategically plan my time - decide whether to watch the full lecture or get by on some topics reading/digesting then testing on them myself.

thanks


To be honest, the best piece of advice I could give you is to book some annual leave (if you possibly can). Studying for the bar exam is really hard work, and juggling it with a full time job just makes it even harder. If you could get even a fortnight to concentrate solely on studying, I'm sure you'd feel better.

Also, if your current employer has an interest in your passing the bar exam (for example, if they're sponsoring you so that you'll be able to handle U.S. work for them or whatnot) then I don't think it's at all unreasonable to ask for study leave.

zara12
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby zara12 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:46 am

hi i am a foreign student
just finished with my LLM
very confused about choosing a bar review
themis, barbri or pieper
i wil be taking a llm couse whichever bar review i choose
plz share ur expierence with ur bar reviews
thanks

coffee11
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:24 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby coffee11 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:35 pm

Lottic wrote:Hi all,

Is there a recommended bar program for non-US law graduates?

I am a lawyer from Australia so English is not a problem and we are a common law jurisdiction.

I know there's an international Barbri course (£4500!!) and maybe another one or two out there but would there be any difference if i take non international programs like Themis, Adaptibar etc?

Would there be anything in the exams that the local bar programs don't cover but may be included in the international programs?

I am looking to take the NY bar exam in July 2017.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!


Caveat: I haven't got my results yet.

I'm also Australian and just took the bar. Did Barbri (non-international version) and found it great because it really babies you, much like a personal trainer - they do all the planning/instructing, you just have to do the heavy lifting. I also liked their early start content. I don't think it's necessary to take the international version of the course. Either way, my advice is to start casually reading Const and Fed Civ Pro before the course commencement date, as those are the subjects that are completely alien.

With regard to the foreign credentials approval, mine was really quick - about 6 weeks. I noticed though that you used the pound sign in your post, are you coming from/did you get your degree from England? If so I've heard it takes a little longer.

Blackhawks_Fan
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:34 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Blackhawks_Fan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:55 pm

coffee11 wrote:
Lottic wrote:Hi all,

Is there a recommended bar program for non-US law graduates?

I am a lawyer from Australia so English is not a problem and we are a common law jurisdiction.

I know there's an international Barbri course (£4500!!) and maybe another one or two out there but would there be any difference if i take non international programs like Themis, Adaptibar etc?

Would there be anything in the exams that the local bar programs don't cover but may be included in the international programs?

I am looking to take the NY bar exam in July 2017.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!


Caveat: I haven't got my results yet.

I'm also Australian and just took the bar. Did Barbri (non-international version) and found it great because it really babies you, much like a personal trainer - they do all the planning/instructing, you just have to do the heavy lifting. I also liked their early start content. I don't think it's necessary to take the international version of the course. Either way, my advice is to start casually reading Const and Fed Civ Pro before the course commencement date, as those are the subjects that are completely alien.

With regard to the foreign credentials approval, mine was really quick - about 6 weeks. I noticed though that you used the pound sign in your post, are you coming from/did you get your degree from England? If so I've heard it takes a little longer.


Out of curiosity, have you heard and / or do you have any idea how much longer or why even? Seems strange to me it takes longer if degree from England, as a lot of US law was originally from across the pond. I think you're right though... I submitted everything in November, not a peep since. I phoned up BOLE, trying to sound all friendly and casual, but got very gruff response back.

coffee11
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:24 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby coffee11 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:00 pm

Blackhawks_Fan wrote:
coffee11 wrote:
Lottic wrote:Hi all,

Is there a recommended bar program for non-US law graduates?

I am a lawyer from Australia so English is not a problem and we are a common law jurisdiction.

I know there's an international Barbri course (£4500!!) and maybe another one or two out there but would there be any difference if i take non international programs like Themis, Adaptibar etc?

Would there be anything in the exams that the local bar programs don't cover but may be included in the international programs?

I am looking to take the NY bar exam in July 2017.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!


Caveat: I haven't got my results yet.

I'm also Australian and just took the bar. Did Barbri (non-international version) and found it great because it really babies you, much like a personal trainer - they do all the planning/instructing, you just have to do the heavy lifting. I also liked their early start content. I don't think it's necessary to take the international version of the course. Either way, my advice is to start casually reading Const and Fed Civ Pro before the course commencement date, as those are the subjects that are completely alien.

With regard to the foreign credentials approval, mine was really quick - about 6 weeks. I noticed though that you used the pound sign in your post, are you coming from/did you get your degree from England? If so I've heard it takes a little longer.


Out of curiosity, have you heard and / or do you have any idea how much longer or why even? Seems strange to me it takes longer if degree from England, as a lot of US law was originally from across the pond. I think you're right though... I submitted everything in November, not a peep since. I phoned up BOLE, trying to sound all friendly and casual, but got very gruff response back.


I think because (and forgive me if this is incorrect) I've heard the English law degree is somewhat different in structure than the US one, which is pretty similar to the Aus law degree. I didn't have to do an LLM because my degree is from a recognized university so maybe the auto-equivalency helps with the foreign assessment.

Blackhawks_Fan
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:34 pm

Re: Bar program for foreign lawyer - NY Bar Exam

Postby Blackhawks_Fan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:05 pm

coffee11 wrote:
Blackhawks_Fan wrote:
coffee11 wrote:
Lottic wrote:Hi all,

Is there a recommended bar program for non-US law graduates?

I am a lawyer from Australia so English is not a problem and we are a common law jurisdiction.

I know there's an international Barbri course (£4500!!) and maybe another one or two out there but would there be any difference if i take non international programs like Themis, Adaptibar etc?

Would there be anything in the exams that the local bar programs don't cover but may be included in the international programs?

I am looking to take the NY bar exam in July 2017.

Any help appreciated! Thanks!


Caveat: I haven't got my results yet.

I'm also Australian and just took the bar. Did Barbri (non-international version) and found it great because it really babies you, much like a personal trainer - they do all the planning/instructing, you just have to do the heavy lifting. I also liked their early start content. I don't think it's necessary to take the international version of the course. Either way, my advice is to start casually reading Const and Fed Civ Pro before the course commencement date, as those are the subjects that are completely alien.

With regard to the foreign credentials approval, mine was really quick - about 6 weeks. I noticed though that you used the pound sign in your post, are you coming from/did you get your degree from England? If so I've heard it takes a little longer.


Out of curiosity, have you heard and / or do you have any idea how much longer or why even? Seems strange to me it takes longer if degree from England, as a lot of US law was originally from across the pond. I think you're right though... I submitted everything in November, not a peep since. I phoned up BOLE, trying to sound all friendly and casual, but got very gruff response back.


I think because (and forgive me if this is incorrect) I've heard the English law degree is somewhat different in structure than the US one, which is pretty similar to the Aus law degree. I didn't have to do an LLM because my degree is from a recognized university so maybe the auto-equivalency helps with the foreign assessment.


Got it, thank you!!! Although you'd think they'd know the gig more by now, as in, whether they qualify or not.




Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: logical seasoning and 14 guests