Questions from a First Time Failure

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desperate4lawschool

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Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby desperate4lawschool » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Failed the bar and am trying to get back on the horse. I did read the thread about "Advice for a Third Time Failure" from which I will definitely take notes from. However, I also had the following questions:

(1) Is it worth spending the money to get a copy of your questions/answers from the bar exam?

(2) Best advice for retaining the black letter law. I did Themis to prep for the bar exam and honestly think that I wasn't ready. Granted, I did not do all of it, but I think the quizzes after each lecture gives you a false sense of reassurance. I struggle with retaining/learning the black letter law, so am considering doing Adaptibar to supplement Themis (which I get to retake for free). I am only counting on using Themis for the essay grading/practice. I hear great things about Adaptibar, but its spiel (lots of NCBE licensed questions, adjust to your weak points) sounds a lot like Themis. Good or bad idea?

(3) What is the best way to retain black letter law?

(4) My friend recommends that I not bother with learning the law, just do a bunch of practice questions/exams and you'll learn the law in the process. Good or bad idea? I feel like it's a waste of time to do practice questions/exams when you don't even know the law. It seems more logical to me to learn the law first, then reinforce that knowledge with practice questions, rather than the other way around.

(5) Winter UBE is harder than summer. True or false?

I graduated law school four years ago and work full-time, so haven't really had the time to study.

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tfer2222

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby tfer2222 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:19 pm

Took the bar several years ago, but how one memorizes BLL varies greatly from person to person, so don't listen to your friend unless you know that has worked for you in the past. How did you do it in law school? For me, its flashcards - making them myself (by hand) and then drilling them over and over and over and over and over until I know everything cold. Probably not the most efficient method of memorizing but it never failed me during law school/bar prep.

I-Dislike-Prosciutto

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby I-Dislike-Prosciutto » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:34 pm

desperate4lawschool wrote:(2) Best advice for retaining the black letter law. I did Themis to prep for the bar exam and honestly think that I wasn't ready. Granted, I did not do all of it, but I think the quizzes after each lecture gives you a false sense of reassurance. I struggle with retaining/learning the black letter law, so am considering doing Adaptibar to supplement Themis (which I get to retake for free). I am only counting on using Themis for the essay grading/practice. I hear great things about Adaptibar, but its spiel (lots of NCBE licensed questions, adjust to your weak points) sounds a lot like Themis. Good or bad idea?

(3) What is the best way to retain black letter law?

(4) My friend recommends that I not bother with learning the law, just do a bunch of practice questions/exams and you'll learn the law in the process. Good or bad idea? I feel like it's a waste of time to do practice questions/exams when you don't even know the law. It seems more logical to me to learn the law first, then reinforce that knowledge with practice questions, rather than the other way around.

(5) Winter UBE is harder than summer. True or false?

I graduated law school four years ago and work full-time, so haven't really had the time to study.


(2) Themis is great, I completed something like 35% and passed. The post-lecture quizzes are AWFUL though - way too easy, and not reflective of what you'll see on the exam. Do practice question sessions (usually 50 questions) every day for the last few weeks.

(3) How'd you retain material in college and law school? You got this far with your old methods, so don't change your methods to something new and unfamiliar now.

(4) TERRIBLE idea. You NEED to learn the black letter law. You won't learn shit if you just do a bunch of Adaptibar questions. The questions don't teach you the law - they just teach you one very, very particular application of the law. Way too narrow to be useful on the actual exam.

(5) False, although more people fail in the winter because most of the winter people are retakers (i.e. they're not as good at test-taking as the people who take the test for the first time in July and pass).

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Prana-9

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby Prana-9 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:39 pm

Most of above poster is good advice, but a combo of Adaptibar questions and learning black letter law with outlines/flashcards/etc. is the way to go.

And Adaptibar questions, although deal with narrow issues, are very helpful, because the issues repeat themselves throughout the exams, and are good to gauge difficulty of actual bar exam questions.

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SilvermanBarPrep

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby SilvermanBarPrep » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:03 pm

I think the learning of black letter law should come from a combination of studying your subject-matter outlines and doing practice questions. Every time you answer a question incorrectly note very carefully the one issue that the question was designed to test. This is so important for preparing for the MBE. You'll then learn a specific legal issue and the rule needed to address that issue and by doing enough questions you will have built up a huge knowledge base only based on the number of issues tested within those questions. Where the outlines come in is to fill in the gaps of knowledge not covered by the practice questions. Reading outlines alone, however, is far less helpful; you need to see how these concepts are actually tested and that will only be gained by doing practice questions.

--Sean

overthis89

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby overthis89 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:45 pm

desperate4lawschool wrote:Failed the bar and am trying to get back on the horse. I did read the thread about "Advice for a Third Time Failure" from which I will definitely take notes from. However, I also had the following questions:

(1) Is it worth spending the money to get a copy of your questions/answers from the bar exam?

(2) Best advice for retaining the black letter law. I did Themis to prep for the bar exam and honestly think that I wasn't ready. Granted, I did not do all of it, but I think the quizzes after each lecture gives you a false sense of reassurance. I struggle with retaining/learning the black letter law, so am considering doing Adaptibar to supplement Themis (which I get to retake for free). I am only counting on using Themis for the essay grading/practice. I hear great things about Adaptibar, but its spiel (lots of NCBE licensed questions, adjust to your weak points) sounds a lot like Themis. Good or bad idea?

(3) What is the best way to retain black letter law?

(4) My friend recommends that I not bother with learning the law, just do a bunch of practice questions/exams and you'll learn the law in the process. Good or bad idea? I feel like it's a waste of time to do practice questions/exams when you don't even know the law. It seems more logical to me to learn the law first, then reinforce that knowledge with practice questions, rather than the other way around.

(5) Winter UBE is harder than summer. True or false?

I graduated law school four years ago and work full-time, so haven't really had the time to study.



I failed the bar exam four times by 1 POINT and finally passed on the 5th time. Here's my take on this:

1. You honestly don't need to. I did order them the first time I failed and it wasn't all that helpful. The overall scores helped me out a lot rather than the full results.

2. I did Themis too and it's just a good way for how I think. I took Kaplan the first time and I really enjoyed it but I felt like Themis was more up my alley. What Kaplan did do that was wonderful was something called One-Sheeters - essentially, with each lecture for Themis I would outline it myself then after each topic I would turn around and create a one-sheet that's essentially EVERYTHING on each topic on double sided page.

3. Everyone is so different so I can't help you there. I just used the one-sheeters and kept reviewing them & rewriting.

I can't speak on the other topics - it's all individual. Practice helps for sure. Just keep your head up and try again - time management works the best!

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rcharter1978

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby rcharter1978 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:04 pm

2) I think the one thing, maybe the ONLY thing Barbri does well is BLL. You should see if you can pick up a cheap copy of the CMR and big barbri book. See how you like them. The second time I took the exam I kind of focused in on using barbri for BLL.

I would try to take each subject in 3-5 days.

Day 1-2: review BLL*
Day 3: MBE questions on the subject through AdaptiBar
Day 4: Essays
Day 5: MBE + Essay

* -- for me (just for me) the best way to review BLL was to write it, so I couldn't just review the material, I had to either write it or put it in an outline. But that is also how I learned the material in law school....writing it really cemented it in my mind.

AspiringCALawyer

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Re: Questions from a First Time Failure

Postby AspiringCALawyer » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:26 pm

desperate4lawschool wrote:Failed the bar and am trying to get back on the horse. I did read the thread about "Advice for a Third Time Failure" from which I will definitely take notes from. However, I also had the following questions:

(1) Is it worth spending the money to get a copy of your questions/answers from the bar exam?

(2) Best advice for retaining the black letter law. I did Themis to prep for the bar exam and honestly think that I wasn't ready. Granted, I did not do all of it, but I think the quizzes after each lecture gives you a false sense of reassurance. I struggle with retaining/learning the black letter law, so am considering doing Adaptibar to supplement Themis (which I get to retake for free). I am only counting on using Themis for the essay grading/practice. I hear great things about Adaptibar, but its spiel (lots of NCBE licensed questions, adjust to your weak points) sounds a lot like Themis. Good or bad idea?

(3) What is the best way to retain black letter law?

(4) My friend recommends that I not bother with learning the law, just do a bunch of practice questions/exams and you'll learn the law in the process. Good or bad idea? I feel like it's a waste of time to do practice questions/exams when you don't even know the law. It seems more logical to me to learn the law first, then reinforce that knowledge with practice questions, rather than the other way around.

(5) Winter UBE is harder than summer. True or false?

I graduated law school four years ago and work full-time, so haven't really had the time to study.


(1) Don't know about your state; however, CA sends the essays to you for free and publishes two sample answers per question. It was helpful to see my poor answers (shockingly I got a 75 on first essay, though; however, it went downhill from there) and compare them to the sample answers. I was able to see what issues I missed and hopefully improve my performance on essays and PT (results come out in 3 weeks).

(2)/(3) I used Barbri (including free repeat course for July 2016 exam). Also, I subscribed to BarEssays for the repeat (you can also get their outlines). I'm a written learner; therefore, it's easier for me to retain material that I outline myself. I had prepared flashcards for my first attempt (Feb 2016) and just reused them for the July exam. In addition, I recorded the rules in small bits (iPhone) I had the most trouble with and listened to the recordings during downtime (e.g., driving and flying out to CA, etc). I had used that technique successfully when I had to memorize a pseudo Ted talk I had give. After so much repetition, the words just automatically flowed in my head.

(4) I also disagree, given that you'll need BLL for the essays.

(5) Didn't apply to me. Didn't have to do MBE.



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