New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:18 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
joeyc328 wrote:
You act as if, once again, higher tier schools have some "special sauce" no one else has. That simply is not true


Couldn't you argue that the "special sauce" is harder working students who got better LSAT score, a better GPA, and are more likely to pass the bar?



I think its just as possible this occurs..

Student X goes to Moderately ranked "easy" undergrad with a major in Poli Sci gets a 3.98 GPA studys for 6 months on how to take the LSAT gets a 160 goes to top tier school.

Me: Undegrad in Biology and Chemistry GPA 2.75, took the lSAT with 1 month notice did not study at all got a 148 and that got me into 3 low tier schools. I'm not going to toot my own horn but... harder working I doubt it. By the way student X is one of my best friends, I wish I followed his example. That doesn't make him a better student or smarter, guess which one of us has a patent.


Srinivasa Ramanujan was one of the most brilliant mathematicians of all time, in spite of having little or no formal education. Therefore there's no reason to have universities teach math.



No by your reasoning 2+2 at Harvard is not 2+2 any where else.....and everyone else is to stupid to get that



Look I agree with you but people always use this argument Harvard MIT etc... and granted there are brilliant people there but you cant tell me contracts at Notre Dame is better than contracts at UNM, or the rule against perpetuities is somehow easier at Florida than at Oklahoma.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:21 pm

andythefir wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:To be fair, I don't think it's unusual that a school does a write-on-only law review (mine technically considered grades in that people in the top 10% got a very small advantage, but it had little effect). But my sense of NM is that it's very very insular (not necessarily in a bad way), so that all rings pretty true otherwise.


I'm aware that this thread was originally supposed to be about the July 2016 bar, but I really think the issues are all bound up. New Mexico is certainly insular generally, and it is not necessarily bad, but the legal market in ABQ turns it into pathology. I had one of maybe 10 summer associate spots for 50+ attorney firms in the whole state, and I was relentlessly and ruthlessly grilled about being a phony in my interest in coming to NM. I was born maybe 5 blocks from the firm, I had 4 generations of family in ABQ, and so on, but not going to UNM=not being from NM. Meanwhile one of the other summers that was from Arkansas but went to UNM law on the GI bill after being stationed in NM had no questions the whole summer.

Other data points: Justice Daniels hired his first non-UNM clerk maybe 3 years ago, Judge Bustamante used to say on the clerkship site that he only accepted UNM clerks, and a state COA judge told me you have to "kick people in the nuts" to hire non-UNM students. When I was sworn into the bar all 5 justices moved the admission of their clerks, so we had to listen to 10 motions. Yesterday I'd say there were more like 3-4, which supports the rumor is that the majority of state clerks failed the bar. Sure some clerks may have not taken the bar seriously, but an inference that the justices are not rigorously searching for legal ability is just as fair an inference.

You're right that 100% write-on law review isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as it manifests at UNM, so few people complete the write-on that it's a completely different credential than other schools. Taking all these trends together you get state supreme court clerks failing the bar, law review members failing the bar, and random folks from other schools passing it without incident.

Coming from a regional state school, I guess I don't think local judges hiring clerks only from the local school is that much of an issue, and it doesn't mean they're not searching for legal ability - you can't tell me the top students at UNM are somehow less capable than their competition (I tend to think the top students at regional schools would be great students anywhere - and that's not talking about me, but the top students I knew at my school). Which I think doesn't necessarily counter your overall point, of course.

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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby LockBox » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:24 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
joeyc328 wrote:
You act as if, once again, higher tier schools have some "special sauce" no one else has. That simply is not true


Couldn't you argue that the "special sauce" is harder working students who got better LSAT score, a better GPA, and are more likely to pass the bar?



I think its just as possible this occurs..

Student X goes to Moderately ranked "easy" undergrad with a major in Poli Sci gets a 3.98 GPA studys for 6 months on how to take the LSAT gets a 160 goes to top tier school.

Me: Undegrad in Biology and Chemistry GPA 2.75, took the lSAT with 1 month notice did not study at all got a 148 and that got me into 3 low tier schools. I'm not going to toot my own horn but... harder working I doubt it. By the way student X is one of my best friends, I wish I followed his example. That doesn't make him a better student or smarter, guess which one of us has a patent.


Srinivasa Ramanujan was one of the most brilliant mathematicians of all time, in spite of having little or no formal education. Therefore there's no reason to have universities teach math.



No by your reasoning 2+2 at Harvard is not 2+2 any where else.....and everyone else is to stupid to get that



Look I agree with you but people always use this argument Harvard MIT etc... and granted there are brilliant people there but you cant tell me contracts at Notre Dame is better than contracts at UNM, or the rule against perpetuities is somehow easier at Florida than at Oklahoma.


No, contracts is contracts wherever you take it. And I agree that your professors at your school are likely just as good at teaching the law as professors at other universities. But this is not what separates Harvard et al from all the other schools - it's the students. Your competition varies. So in a sense, yes, contracts is harder somewhere where more students "get it" and compete with you for a higher grade.

That being said, there is little point to this conversation other than to detract from your goal - passing the bar. My recommendation is drink the kool-aid, do whatever you need to do to pass and then think about how things should change and/or if there is problem with the status quo.

ClubberLang
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby ClubberLang » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:25 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:Most of the data suggests a correlation between LSAT and bar passage. That could be because higher LSAT = smarter, or higher LSAT = getting in to a school that does a better job teaching the law. Either way, there's no point in refusing to believe a correlation exists when real data suggests otherwise.

My suggestion is stop being mad, forget about conspiracy theories, and try again. There's no point in trying to pin a failure on someone else because ultimately it is your career. The test is passable, you proved you are capable with a decent MEE score. Just work hard on the MBE for February.

I am curious to know what you feel is a better predictor of bar success than GPA/LSAT. If you have this wisdom, you should have no problem passing next time.


I think your over simplifying the situation. You act as if, once again, higher tier schools have some "special sauce" no one else has. That simply is not true. I will gladly put the professors I had against any in the country. I learned zoning and land use from a Partner in one of Lansings biggest firms, oil & gas from a 20 year practitioner and partner in his firm, professional responsibility from a State Bar Disciplinary board member. Blindly believing the Bar and law school rank means something is an antiquated misnomer. You completely ignored the evidence that people have taken and passed the bar WITHOUT GOING TO LAW SCHOOL. How do you explain that? They are just smarter right? How blind are you to just say "stop being mad" "pin blame on someone else" you sheep, If you could read you would see I CLEARLY stated I blame no one but myself for my failure and I fully expect to pass this game of a test. You on the other hand need to wake up, there is a glitch in the matrix. Obviously the board feels the same since they want to study what is going on. According to you stupid in stupid out...what a joke.


I legitimately believe schools like Harvard offer a better legal education than schools like Cooley. It really isn't that big a deal that a State Bar Disciplinary member taught you PR or that you learned land use from a partner.

You have not provided any evidence that people have passed the bar without going to law school. Maybe someone has. In my jurisdiction you have to have graduated from a law school to sit for the bar. I bet that a person who passes the bar without going to law school would have dominated the LSAT though. I legitimately believe that anyone who passes the bar without going to law school is smarter than just about anyone who fails the bar after having gone to law school.

If you can't get on board with 1) Harvard providing better education than Cooley, and 2) non law school bar passer being smarter than law school failer, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:26 pm

LockBox wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
joeyc328 wrote:
You act as if, once again, higher tier schools have some "special sauce" no one else has. That simply is not true


Couldn't you argue that the "special sauce" is harder working students who got better LSAT score, a better GPA, and are more likely to pass the bar?



I think its just as possible this occurs..

Student X goes to Moderately ranked "easy" undergrad with a major in Poli Sci gets a 3.98 GPA studys for 6 months on how to take the LSAT gets a 160 goes to top tier school.

Me: Undegrad in Biology and Chemistry GPA 2.75, took the lSAT with 1 month notice did not study at all got a 148 and that got me into 3 low tier schools. I'm not going to toot my own horn but... harder working I doubt it. By the way student X is one of my best friends, I wish I followed his example. That doesn't make him a better student or smarter, guess which one of us has a patent.


Srinivasa Ramanujan was one of the most brilliant mathematicians of all time, in spite of having little or no formal education. Therefore there's no reason to have universities teach math.



No by your reasoning 2+2 at Harvard is not 2+2 any where else.....and everyone else is to stupid to get that



Look I agree with you but people always use this argument Harvard MIT etc... and granted there are brilliant people there but you cant tell me contracts at Notre Dame is better than contracts at UNM, or the rule against perpetuities is somehow easier at Florida than at Oklahoma.


No, contracts is contracts wherever you take it. And I agree that your professors at your school are likely just as good at teaching the law as professors at other universities. But this is not what separates Harvard et al from all the other schools - it's the students. Your competition varies. So in a sense, yes, contracts is harder somewhere where more students "get it" and compete with you for a higher grade.

That being said, there is little point to this conversation other than to detract from your goal - passing the bar. My recommendation is drink the kool-aid, do whatever you need to do to pass and then think about how things should change and/or if there is problem with the status quo.




Well said...Kool-Aid it is then

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:26 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
Look I agree with you but people always use this argument Harvard MIT etc... and granted there are brilliant people there but you cant tell me contracts at Notre Dame is better than contracts at UNM, or the rule against perpetuities is somehow easier at Florida than at Oklahoma.


Yes and no...

As a general rule, people who score 170 on the LSAT are going to be brighter and better at this shit than people who score 145. Are there exceptions? Of course. But we're not talking about those. We're talking about statistics. So with regard to the bar exam, the cream of the crop is likely to have an easier time of it than the people at the other end of the scale. And as far as the classes being harder or easier goes: The material may be the same, but law school is graded on a curve, so your grades are going to reflect your competition.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:33 pm

ClubberLang wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:Most of the data suggests a correlation between LSAT and bar passage. That could be because higher LSAT = smarter, or higher LSAT = getting in to a school that does a better job teaching the law. Either way, there's no point in refusing to believe a correlation exists when real data suggests otherwise.

My suggestion is stop being mad, forget about conspiracy theories, and try again. There's no point in trying to pin a failure on someone else because ultimately it is your career. The test is passable, you proved you are capable with a decent MEE score. Just work hard on the MBE for February.

I am curious to know what you feel is a better predictor of bar success than GPA/LSAT. If you have this wisdom, you should have no problem passing next time.


I think your over simplifying the situation. You act as if, once again, higher tier schools have some "special sauce" no one else has. That simply is not true. I will gladly put the professors I had against any in the country. I learned zoning and land use from a Partner in one of Lansings biggest firms, oil & gas from a 20 year practitioner and partner in his firm, professional responsibility from a State Bar Disciplinary board member. Blindly believing the Bar and law school rank means something is an antiquated misnomer. You completely ignored the evidence that people have taken and passed the bar WITHOUT GOING TO LAW SCHOOL. How do you explain that? They are just smarter right? How blind are you to just say "stop being mad" "pin blame on someone else" you sheep, If you could read you would see I CLEARLY stated I blame no one but myself for my failure and I fully expect to pass this game of a test. You on the other hand need to wake up, there is a glitch in the matrix. Obviously the board feels the same since they want to study what is going on. According to you stupid in stupid out...what a joke.


I legitimately believe schools like Harvard offer a better legal education than schools like Cooley. It really isn't that big a deal that a State Bar Disciplinary member taught you PR or that you learned land use from a partner.

You have not provided any evidence that people have passed the bar without going to law school. Maybe someone has. In my jurisdiction you have to have graduated from a law school to sit for the bar. I bet that a person who passes the bar without going to law school would have dominated the LSAT though. I legitimately believe that anyone who passes the bar without going to law school is smarter than just about anyone who fails the bar after having gone to law school.

If you can't get on board with 1) Harvard providing better education than Cooley, and 2) non law school bar passer being smarter than law school failer, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.



Heres you evidence: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-b ... ool-2014-7


I fully agree Harvard is WAY better than Cooley and most other schools...but you need to read this article. Your dedication to the "almighty" law school is misplaced. The point I made earlier is still valid. I respect my instructors not only for their positions in the practice of law but also for the knowledge they represent and imparted to a lowly worm like me, if you don't seem to care what they have done I couldn't care less you are just like the rest of the community disregarding others that don't fit the mold( or the tier).

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:37 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
Look I agree with you but people always use this argument Harvard MIT etc... and granted there are brilliant people there but you cant tell me contracts at Notre Dame is better than contracts at UNM, or the rule against perpetuities is somehow easier at Florida than at Oklahoma.


Yes and no...

As a general rule, people who score 170 on the LSAT are going to be brighter and better at this shit than people who score 145. Are there exceptions? Of course. But we're not talking about those. We're talking about statistics. So with regard to the bar exam, the cream of the crop is likely to have an easier time of it than the people at the other end of the scale. And as far as the classes being harder or easier goes: The material may be the same, but law school is graded on a curve, so your grades are going to reflect your competition.


Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT

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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:39 pm

blaze1306 wrote:

Heres you evidence: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-b ... ool-2014-7


I fully agree Harvard is WAY better than Cooley and most other schools...but you need to read this article. Your dedication to the "almighty" law school is misplaced. The point I made earlier is still valid. I respect my instructors not only for their positions in the practice of law but also for the knowledge they represent and imparted to a lowly worm like me, if you don't seem to care what they have done I couldn't care less you are just like the rest of the community disregarding others that don't fit the mold( or the tier).


Only 28% of the tiny minority of law office readers passed their bar exams last year, compared to 78% of students who attended American Bar Association-approved law schools, reports The Times.


Nope. Nothing to see here folks. As long as some tiny minority can pass the bar Indiana Tech style, law school is a scam that has nothing to do with the bar exam.

Also I'm pretty sure no one is trash talking your instructors.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:42 pm

blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:43 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?



Probably a pretty good grasp given my background...but actually I don't want to argue with you it wont change anything tier discrimination will not end today....back to the article I shared....Interesting.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:48 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?



Probably a pretty good grasp given my background...but actually I don't want to argue with you it wont change anything tier discrimination will not end today....back to the article I shared....Interesting.


Everybody gets the same exam and it's blind graded. There's no discrimination happening here.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:54 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?



Probably a pretty good grasp given my background...but actually I don't want to argue with you it wont change anything tier discrimination will not end today....back to the article I shared....Interesting.


Everybody gets the same exam and it's blind graded. There's no discrimination happening here.



Yessa massa

andythefir
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby andythefir » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:54 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Coming from a regional state school, I guess I don't think local judges hiring clerks only from the local school is that much of an issue, and it doesn't mean they're not searching for legal ability - you can't tell me the top students at UNM are somehow less capable than their competition (I tend to think the top students at regional schools would be great students anywhere - and that's not talking about me, but the top students I knew at my school). Which I think doesn't necessarily counter your overall point, of course.


First, I think it's interesting that we are having a totally parallel exchange that seems to be both more helpful and more collegial than the rest of the post. Speaking for myself, I have searched lots of things on this site, so I'm hopeful that at some point this content is helpful to someone.

I agree that state judges hiring a lot of regional school grads is totally normal, but my objection is when "I usually hire X school grads" becomes "if you don't go to X school don't apply." I also completely agree that top students from any school can be brilliant, but my concerns are that (1) it's harder than usual to spot top students at UNM because the credentialing mechanisms are weird and (2) employers depart from even the credentials they have available. Judges don't require top grades or law review for clerkships, and from the people I've talked to, people known to be weak writers get clerkships regularly. It's part of the decision to forego face time with big players when you leave the market for any school. In the other markets I've seen up close top 5-10% of a regional school on law review will box out top 15-30% of a good school outside the market. But I personally was turned down for jobs that ended up going to people somewhere around the middle of the UNM class when I was top 10% at a top 25 school.

And now that middle of the class at UNM is no longer a sure thing to pass the bar, employers will almost have to change their frameworks.

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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby grades?? » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:55 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?



Probably a pretty good grasp given my background...but actually I don't want to argue with you it wont change anything tier discrimination will not end today....back to the article I shared....Interesting.


Everybody gets the same exam and it's blind graded. There's no discrimination happening here.



Yessa massa


You are just a giant troll. Go away.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:58 pm

grades?? wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?



Probably a pretty good grasp given my background...but actually I don't want to argue with you it wont change anything tier discrimination will not end today....back to the article I shared....Interesting.


Everybody gets the same exam and it's blind graded. There's no discrimination happening here.



Yessa massa


You are just a giant troll. Go away.

Wait.... who?

grades??
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby grades?? » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:05 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
grades?? wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:Your crazy!!! Exceptional because they passed one test? You really believe one test (and you have agreed we studied the same material post LSAT) a similar education makes a 170 on the LSAT exceptional? That is the craziest thing....if that were the case why not anoint them a bar license after the LSAT


You don't really get how aptitude testing works, do you?



Probably a pretty good grasp given my background...but actually I don't want to argue with you it wont change anything tier discrimination will not end today....back to the article I shared....Interesting.


Everybody gets the same exam and it's blind graded. There's no discrimination happening here.



Yessa massa


You are just a giant troll. Go away.

Wait.... who?


You. I can see why you didn't do well on the Lsat.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:08 pm

Yessa massa[/quote]

You are just a giant troll. Go away.[/quote]
Wait.... who?[/quote]

You. I can see why you didn't do well on the Lsat.[/quote]


Fuck you dickhead...I posted this thread you can suck a dick. I did poorly on the LSAT cause I was with your mom.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:10 pm

Stop it people. Argue about school stuff but keep the personal sniping out of it.

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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby BillCooper » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:10 pm

I hate to sound like a jerk, but cutting a 260 on the UBE is not that difficult. I studied for a month, was a complete idiot in law school, had a low LSAT, and still cut a 266 to pass.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:13 pm

BillCooper wrote:I hate to sound like a jerk, but cutting a 260 on the UBE is not that difficult. I studied for a month, was a complete idiot in law school, had a low LSAT, and still cut a 266 to pass.


Advice? I think I concentrated to much on the essay and not enough on the MBE suggestions?

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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby BillCooper » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:17 pm

blaze1306 wrote:
BillCooper wrote:I hate to sound like a jerk, but cutting a 260 on the UBE is not that difficult. I studied for a month, was a complete idiot in law school, had a low LSAT, and still cut a 266 to pass.


Advice? I think I concentrated to much on the essay and not enough on the MBE suggestions?


I scored a 144 on the MBE. I basically wrote my essays with a crayon. Once you learn the tricks and snares of the MBE, you can spot the issues in the questions and see where they are trying to screw you up. Know the elements and twists of every silly rule, (i.e. arson, charing v. smoke damage).

I am taking it again in a jurisdiction that requires a 270. I only studied for a month. Again, I was a complete moron in law school that finished at the bottom of my class at at a lower ranked T1. You can pass.

blaze1306
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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby blaze1306 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:19 pm

BillCooper wrote:
blaze1306 wrote:
BillCooper wrote:I hate to sound like a jerk, but cutting a 260 on the UBE is not that difficult. I studied for a month, was a complete idiot in law school, had a low LSAT, and still cut a 266 to pass.


Advice? I think I concentrated to much on the essay and not enough on the MBE suggestions?


I scored a 144 on the MBE. I basically wrote my essays with a crayon. Once you learn the tricks and snares of the MBE, you can spot the issues in the questions and see where they are trying to screw you up. Know the elements and twists of every silly rule, (i.e. arson, charing v. smoke damage).

I am taking it again in a jurisdiction that requires a 270. I only studied for a month. Again, I was a complete moron in law school that finished at the bottom of my class at at a lower ranked T1. You can pass.


Appreciate it

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Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:47 pm

To me, you're underestimating the idea that gaming a standardized test is a skill that someone who gets a 170 on the LSAT understands. Someone who got a sub 150 score probably doesn't understand.

Blaze -- by your own account you didn't really study on how to game the LSAT and you didn't take a bar review course. So you never really have studied the strategies associated with law school standardized testing. The fact that you bombed the MBE portion bolsters that point.

The same, IMO could be said for students who couldn't get a 150 on the LSAT. Since students raise their LSAT scores through studying/tutoring/prep classes, there is no particular reason to think they are smarter -- because on diagnostic testing they may have scored in the sub 150's before tutoring. But they learned the tips, tricks, strategies, study methods that raised their score to a real 160-170.

I don't think there is any conspiracy other than that. If the UBE was looking to screw minority students I think they would do it with the essay portion, which you did well on.

I do think GPA matters because if you're constantly at the bottom of your class at a lower ranked law school it probably means you didn't learn anything or retain any of the information that you'll need for the bar exam. Bottom of class students at Harvard are going to be different than bottom of the class students at a lower ranked school. We can discuss why if you disagree.

You simply need to learn the MBE and you'll be fine.

BillCooper
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:54 am

Re: New Mexico low passage rate is causing panic

Postby BillCooper » Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:50 am

rcharter1978 wrote:To me, you're underestimating the idea that gaming a standardized test is a skill that someone who gets a 170 on the LSAT understands. Someone who got a sub 150 score probably doesn't understand.

Blaze -- by your own account you didn't really study on how to game the LSAT and you didn't take a bar review course. So you never really have studied the strategies associated with law school standardized testing. The fact that you bombed the MBE portion bolsters that point.

The same, IMO could be said for students who couldn't get a 150 on the LSAT. Since students raise their LSAT scores through studying/tutoring/prep classes, there is no particular reason to think they are smarter -- because on diagnostic testing they may have scored in the sub 150's before tutoring. But they learned the tips, tricks, strategies, study methods that raised their score to a real 160-170.

I don't think there is any conspiracy other than that. If the UBE was looking to screw minority students I think they would do it with the essay portion, which you did well on.

I do think GPA matters because if you're constantly at the bottom of your class at a lower ranked law school it probably means you didn't learn anything or retain any of the information that you'll need for the bar exam. Bottom of class students at Harvard are going to be different than bottom of the class students at a lower ranked school. We can discuss why if you disagree.

You simply need to learn the MBE and you'll be fine.


Can't agree more. I was a complete moron, borderline mentally retarded idiot in law school that finished at the bottom of my class. After a month of studying, I cut a 144 on the MBE. It's simply (a) learning the elements of the law, and (b) learning the tricks and snares of the MBE.




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