New Mexico is out and I did NOT pass Forum

[udonisandtrinity]

Good luck to everyone else...

When I didn't pass the CBX on my first try, my dad told me "its a disappointment, not a disgrace," and I'll never forget that, because its true even though its a little cliche.

And, when I finally DID pass the second time around -- I damn near had a heart attack of joy.

Failing the first time made me appreciate passing so much more.

I know it sucks, and it sounds like you really put in the effort. But, it sounds like you may have self studied, which is awesome, however I think you will have a much better idea of what and how to study now that you've actually taken the exam.

The first time, I knew I didn't pass the exam, but I knew the exam was PASSABLE, and it gave me an idea of how to study for the next time.

If you want to buy updated books, people should be selling them on the cheap now that results are out. When I passed, I gave all my books away.

Focus on February....its right around the corner.

This life is an unmitigated and repeated series of horrors...a constant example of misery and disappointment guaranteed to frustrate and beat down even the staunchest of spirit. It is a constant reminder that it is often useless to try, effort is not rewarded and preparation and hope are misguided attempts to force order on a chaotic existence of pain and disappointment.
It doesn't matter what you do, good results are a matter of chance and luck not desire and skill.
What is really pissing me off is people have mentioned they didn't even answer some questions....I answered everything, I was actually ready for the secured transaction question. I cant wait to see my score to actually see where I failed.

What? am I suppose to learn something from this shitshow and be happy and a better person because I failed....no. I'm not going to say the right thing or be grateful for just being in the show. None of us are happy for the person that wins the lottery... we are all envious that it wasn't us. I'm gonna pout for a while. I wouldn't have any room to bitch if I didn't take it seriously or didn't study...but I put in the work, I studied for months straight for nothing. Apparently 64-70% of New Mexico test takers are better than me (even skipping some questions)..so be it. I take no solace in the fact that this was New Mexico's lowest scores in years The fact remains I failed. Not the first time, I can honestly say I have failed at other things before but this one....hurts a little more.

Are you a minority? There is a conspiracy theory that the NCBE takes into account your NCBE profile such as Race/LSAT Score/Undergrad when grading your exam.

NEVERMIND MY QUESTION. Didn't scroll down and read your MBE score before posting the above. You can't pass with a 117 dude. Good news is there is hope for improvement. I scored a 117 in July of 2015 and then scored a 138 in Feb of 2016. You can do it.

[Chaucer1343]

Good luck to everyone else...

When I didn't pass the CBX on my first try, my dad told me "its a disappointment, not a disgrace," and I'll never forget that, because its true even though its a little cliche.

And, when I finally DID pass the second time around -- I damn near had a heart attack of joy.

Failing the first time made me appreciate passing so much more.

I know it sucks, and it sounds like you really put in the effort. But, it sounds like you may have self studied, which is awesome, however I think you will have a much better idea of what and how to study now that you've actually taken the exam.

The first time, I knew I didn't pass the exam, but I knew the exam was PASSABLE, and it gave me an idea of how to study for the next time.

If you want to buy updated books, people should be selling them on the cheap now that results are out. When I passed, I gave all my books away.

Focus on February....its right around the corner.

This life is an unmitigated and repeated series of horrors...a constant example of misery and disappointment guaranteed to frustrate and beat down even the staunchest of spirit. It is a constant reminder that it is often useless to try, effort is not rewarded and preparation and hope are misguided attempts to force order on a chaotic existence of pain and disappointment.
It doesn't matter what you do, good results are a matter of chance and luck not desire and skill.
What is really pissing me off is people have mentioned they didn't even answer some questions....I answered everything, I was actually ready for the secured transaction question. I cant wait to see my score to actually see where I failed.

What? am I suppose to learn something from this shitshow and be happy and a better person because I failed....no. I'm not going to say the right thing or be grateful for just being in the show. None of us are happy for the person that wins the lottery... we are all envious that it wasn't us. I'm gonna pout for a while. I wouldn't have any room to bitch if I didn't take it seriously or didn't study...but I put in the work, I studied for months straight for nothing. Apparently 64-70% of New Mexico test takers are better than me (even skipping some questions)..so be it. I take no solace in the fact that this was New Mexico's lowest scores in years The fact remains I failed. Not the first time, I can honestly say I have failed at other things before but this one....hurts a little more.

Are you a minority? There is a conspiracy theory that the NCBE takes into account your NCBE profile such as Race/LSAT Score/Undergrad when grading your exam.

NEVERMIND MY QUESTION. Didn't scroll down and read your MBE score before posting the above. You can't pass with a 117 dude. Good news is there is hope for improvement. I scored a 117 in July of 2015 and then scored a 138 in Feb of 2016. You can do it.

He could have passed if he received a 143 on the combined score for essays/mpt, right?

[udonisandtrinity]

Not true. The NCBE takes into account race, undergrad and LSAT score. If OP is a non-white male, that comes from an unranked school, and he has LSAT scores that are below 160, he will fail every single time unless you score 140+ on your MBE.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not true. The NCBE takes into account race, undergrad and LSAT score. If OP is a non-white male, that comes from an unranked school, and he has LSAT scores that are below 160, he will fail every single time unless you score 140+ on your MBE.

Wtf???

[rcharter1978]

Not true. The NCBE takes into account race, undergrad and LSAT score. If OP is a non-white male, that comes from an unranked school, and he has LSAT scores that are below 160, he will fail every single time unless you score 140+ on your MBE.

Wtf???

Yeah, I think race figures into a lot of things, but I'd like to see some evidence for any of this.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, and I fully get that the bar has historically been used to keep "undesirables" (dare I say "deplorables"?) out of the profession and there are still long-term effects of that. But I have no idea how a grader is going to know the undergrad, LSAT, and race of the essays before them.

[symphony07]

Not true. The NCBE takes into account race, undergrad and LSAT score. If OP is a non-white male, that comes from an unranked school, and he has LSAT scores that are below 160, he will fail every single time unless you score 140+ on your MBE.

How is this even allowed? What the hell?

[passx3]

Not true. The NCBE takes into account race, undergrad and LSAT score. If OP is a non-white male, that comes from an unranked school, and he has LSAT scores that are below 160, he will fail every single time unless you score 140+ on your MBE.

How is this even allowed? What the hell?

It's not. There's no evidence that NCBE uses race in assigning MBE scores.

[kellyfrost]

Yeah, and I fully get that the bar has historically been used to keep "undesirables" (dare I say "deplorables"?) out of the profession and there are still long-term effects of that. But I have no idea how a grader is going to know the undergrad, LSAT, and race of the essays before them.

#liberal

[udonisandtrinity]

Yeah, and I fully get that the bar has historically been used to keep "undesirables" (dare I say "deplorables"?) out of the profession and there are still long-term effects of that. But I have no idea how a grader is going to know the undergrad, LSAT, and race of the essays before them.

Go into your NCBE profile account. They use this.

And they set the MBE curve based on a special pool of examiners (white males and maybe white females, IVY undergrads or top under institutions, high LSAT scores). They also use their experimental questions on this special pool. Thus, if there is a question that has two right answers, they will use the answer that is selected the most by their special pool to count towards the final grade for that specific exam or for future exams.

The NCBE wants to preserve the integrity of the legal profession. They want certain "types" to pass and represent the legal profession. However, these "types" still need strong MBE scores.

The MEE is a joke. They don't even grade all your essays. Out of 5 essays, 1-2 will be easy, 1-2 will be difficult and 1-2 will be of medium difficulty. Your MEE score is based on 2 essays, 3 maximum. They will disregard the easy essays and select 1 that is difficult and 1 that is of medium difficulty to grade and come up with your final score - all provided that you reached the minimum MBE score.

It's all MBE. If you want to pass, regardless of gender/race/educational background, score a 140+ and you have a good shot.

[filibuster]

Yeah, and I fully get that the bar has historically been used to keep "undesirables" (dare I say "deplorables"?) out of the profession and there are still long-term effects of that. But I have no idea how a grader is going to know the undergrad, LSAT, and race of the essays before them.

Go into your NCBE profile account. They use this.

And they set the MBE curve based on a special pool of examiners (white males and maybe white females, IVY undergrads or top under institutions, high LSAT scores). They also use their experimental questions on this special pool. Thus, if there is a question that has two right answers, they will use the answer that is selected the most by their special pool to count towards the final grade for that specific exam or for future exams.

The NCBE wants to preserve the integrity of the legal profession. They want certain "types" to pass and represent the legal profession. However, these "types" still need strong MBE scores.

The MEE is a joke. They don't even grade all your essays. Out of 5 essays, 1-2 will be easy, 1-2 will be difficult and 1-2 will be of medium difficulty. Your MEE score is based on 2 essays, 3 maximum. They will disregard the easy essays and select 1 that is difficult and 1 that is of medium difficulty to grade and come up with your final score - all provided that you reached the minimum MBE score.

It's all MBE. If you want to pass, regardless of gender/race/educational background, score a 140+ and you have a good shot.

Proof? Sounds like pure conjecture to me.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yeah, and I fully get that the bar has historically been used to keep "undesirables" (dare I say "deplorables"?) out of the profession and there are still long-term effects of that. But I have no idea how a grader is going to know the undergrad, LSAT, and race of the essays before them.

Go into your NCBE profile account. They use this.

And they set the MBE curve based on a special pool of examiners (white males and maybe white females, IVY undergrads or top under institutions, high LSAT scores). They also use their experimental questions on this special pool. Thus, if there is a question that has two right answers, they will use the answer that is selected the most by their special pool to count towards the final grade for that specific exam or for future exams.

The NCBE wants to preserve the integrity of the legal profession. They want certain "types" to pass and represent the legal profession. However, these "types" still need strong MBE scores.

The MEE is a joke. They don't even grade all your essays. Out of 5 essays, 1-2 will be easy, 1-2 will be difficult and 1-2 will be of medium difficulty. Your MEE score is based on 2 essays, 3 maximum. They will disregard the easy essays and select 1 that is difficult and 1 that is of medium difficulty to grade and come up with your final score - all provided that you reached the minimum MBE score.

It's all MBE. If you want to pass, regardless of gender/race/educational background, score a 140+ and you have a good shot.

Like filibuster said, proof of this? I know people who grade bar essays and I'm pretty sure they don't get any information about the author. And the grading is all done by states, not by the NCBE, so that's an awful lot of collusion to be alleging (not saying it wouldn't happen because states are good, but because coordinating this would never work). There's been lots of speculation over the years about "if you score this on your MBE they don't even look at your essays" but no one has ever been able to confirm that (especially since it varies by state and the UBE has only been around a few years). I agree that mathematically, on a UBE exam, once you get above a certain score on your MBE, the essays won't keep you from passing - but that doesn't mean the essays aren't graded (my state gives out both MBE score and essay score, FWIW).

Also, to the extent the bolded occurs, I suspect you have correlation not causation - that is, *if* there is a high-performing group whose scores they use to set the curve (or to scale the exam, I think), they probably *are* mostly white, male, top undergrads and high LSATs, because those groups are overrepresented in high-performing students.

[udonisandtrinity]

If you want some evidence, PM me.

I will leave you with this thought: There are plenty of really smart law grads who fail. They graduated from top law schools. Of those who I know (5 to be exact) the one common denominator was their mediocre MBE score (think 127-135). These are pretty smart people. Yes their MBE scores were sub-par, but it should not be an auto fail. The MBE used to be 40% of the final grade for the previous NY Bar Exam. You would think that these really smart people can score high enough on their MPT and Essays to compensate for their lackluster MBE score. That didn't happen to these five individuals. And they all said they thought they did okay on their essays.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Wait, are you saying that 5 smart people who failed who had mediocre MBE scores are evidence of a conspiracy about bar grading? That's not evidence at all. Why isn't it just that 5 people who didn't study enough/didn't click with the exam enough to do well on the MBE also didn't study enough/click with the exam enough to do well on the essays/MPT? After all the essays test MBE subjects (so if you're struggling with those your essays will suffer) as well as a whole bunch of other topics (that you don't reinforce through your MBE study).

[rcharter1978]

If you want some evidence, PM me.

I will leave you with this thought: There are plenty of really smart law grads who fail. They graduated from top law schools. Of those who I know (5 to be exact) the one common denominator was their mediocre MBE score (think 127-135). These are pretty smart people. Yes their MBE scores were sub-par, but it should not be an auto fail. The MBE used to be 40% of the final grade for the previous NY Bar Exam. You would think that these really smart people can score high enough on their MPT and Essays to compensate for their lackluster MBE score. That didn't happen to these five individuals. And they all said they thought they did okay on their essays.

1) maybe I'm not understanding -- but I thought your argument was that grades were given to keep certain "undesirables" from getting barred. But wouldn't your five friends from top law schools be the sort of people that the state would want to encourage into practice?

2) at best, I think essay grading is somewhat subjective. But it seems more likely that a person who didn't do well on the MBE also doesn't know enough law to really do well on the essays.

3) Since essay grading is subjective, there were likely people with high MBE scores and low essay scores too, but because they had the high MBE score they passed. It might make sense that 5 people, along with hundreds of others just got a tough/rough grader....but that hundreds of others had a high enough MBE score to overcome low essay scores.

[jess]

.

[SpringWater]

Sorry, confused. I know each jurisdiction grades the written portion of the exams taken in their jurisdictions and that the curve is based on only the performance of their test takers. Do the final written grades also take jnto account the MBE when coming up with their graded score?

If that is the case then what's up with the MBE? Is the "graded score" for the MBE different from state to state?

[encore1101]

jet fuel can't melt steel beams

[LockBox]

I saw alien ships near Area 51 when I was headed to Vegas last year. RELEASE THE FILES, OBAMA

[zot1]

If you can somehow swing it, I highly recommend using Themis. That is the program I used for a UBE jurisdiction, and I was able to pass with some room to spare. Giving away the money sucked (I probably am still paying for it since I put it on my credit card), but it made it worth it for me since I am a practicing attorney now.

If you have some questions or want to chat some more, feel free to PM me.

[philepistemer]

Not true. The NCBE takes into account race, undergrad and LSAT score. If OP is a non-white male, that comes from an unranked school, and he has LSAT scores that are below 160, he will fail every single time unless you score 140+ on your MBE.

I bet that if you hold undergrad and LSAT constant, you will find that race is irrelevant in determining pass rates.

[zot1]

It makes sense race is a factor because of privileges and systemic challenges and all that crap. If you want to pretend this isn't happening, good for you that you can afford to. But this is definitely an issue. I RAed for a professor whose scholarship is precisely on this and the data is definitely there.

[rcharter1978]

It makes sense race is a factor because of privileges and systemic challenges and all that crap. If you want to pretend this isn't happening, good for you that you can afford to. But this is definitely an issue. I RAed for a professor whose scholarship is precisely on this and the data is definitely there.

That makes sense. The other theory did not.