Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Discussions related to the bar exam are found in this forum
NY_Sea

Bronze
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:25 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby NY_Sea » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:32 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:I'm posting this here because I came across this issue in a sample Civ Pro MBE question. AFAIK my Barbri notes does not cover this issue.

Is there diversity jurisdiction with these facts?

Plaintiff citizen of State B
Defendant corporation's second largest plant in State A, largest plant in State B, incorporated in State C, Board of Dir. in State D.
Amount in controversy excess of $75K

I initially thought there was no diversity jurisdiction because the P and D share a citizenship state (State B). But the answer explanation said there is diversity jurisdiction on these facts. So does that mean a D corporation can choose its citizenship state in order to satisfy diversity?

A person resides where they live (State B for P in your example)... A corporation resides where it is incorporated (State C in your example) or their principal place of business. In this example, I would say the principle place of business is state D, since the Board of Directors are there and that's where all the big decisions are being made. Having manufacturing plants wouldn't be considered the principle place of business, so the corp doesn't reside in either A or B.

There's diversity because P resides in State B (because he's a citizen of state B) and the corp resides in either State C or D and that the amount in controversy is OVER $75k... Be sure to remember it has to exceed $75k, because I'm sure there will be a Q where the amount in controversy is EXACTLY $75k, which would not be good enough.

FinallyPassedTheBar

Bronze
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:27 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:44 pm

NY_Sea wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:I'm posting this here because I came across this issue in a sample Civ Pro MBE question. AFAIK my Barbri notes does not cover this issue.

Is there diversity jurisdiction with these facts?

Plaintiff citizen of State B
Defendant corporation's second largest plant in State A, largest plant in State B, incorporated in State C, Board of Dir. in State D.
Amount in controversy excess of $75K

I initially thought there was no diversity jurisdiction because the P and D share a citizenship state (State B). But the answer explanation said there is diversity jurisdiction on these facts. So does that mean a D corporation can choose its citizenship state in order to satisfy diversity?

A person resides where they live (State B for P in your example)... A corporation resides where it is incorporated (State C in your example) or their principal place of business. In this example, I would say the principle place of business is state D, since the Board of Directors are there and that's where all the big decisions are being made. Having manufacturing plants wouldn't be considered the principle place of business, so the corp doesn't reside in either A or B.

There's diversity because P resides in State B (because he's a citizen of state B) and the corp resides in either State C or D and that the amount in controversy is OVER $75k... Be sure to remember it has to exceed $75k, because I'm sure there will be a Q where the amount in controversy is EXACTLY $75k, which would not be good enough.



Ah I see...so "primary place of business" is HQ, not manufacturing plants. Ok thanks.

Wondering though, let's say P is resident of State D. Can the defendant still remove to fed court claiming diversity jurisdiction by choosing State C (incorporation state) as its citizenship state? Or is the corporation a citizen of State C & D at the same time, and thus no diversity with state D Plaintiff?

FinallyPassedTheBar

Bronze
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:27 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:51 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:
Ah I see...so "primary place of business" is HQ, not manufacturing plants. Ok thanks.

Wondering though, let's say P is resident of State D. Can the defendant still remove to fed court claiming diversity jurisdiction by choosing State C (incorporation state) as its citizenship state? Or is the corporation a citizen of State C & D at the same time, and thus no diversity with state D Plaintiff?



Nevermind, I think I got it from some other notes...no diversity in the 2nd scenario. The primary place of business through me off on the first scenario. Thanks for clearing that up NY_Sea.

FinallyPassedTheBar

Bronze
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:27 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:25 pm

After reviewing more notes, apparently manufacturing location is sufficient for "principle place of business" (PPB), when evaluating CA state court general personal jurisdiction. But manufacturing location is not sufficient for PPB when evaluating fed court diversity jurisdiction. Anyone disagree?

FinallyPassedTheBar

Bronze
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:27 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:58 pm

Pretty pissed right now...I just finished reviewing one of my bar essays that scored a 55. Then I compared it to a 70 essay or Baressays.com. The 70 essay covered the exact same issues as mine, and also missed the exact same issues as mine. And we both irac'd!!! So pissed right now at the large point discrepancy!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

User avatar
KatieSpades

New
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:52 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby KatieSpades » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:04 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:Pretty pissed right now...I just finished reviewing one of my bar essays that scored a 55. Then I compared it to a 70 essay or Baressays.com. The 70 essay covered the exact same issues as mine, and also missed the exact same issues as mine. And we both irac'd!!! So pissed right now at the large point discrepancy!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


That is really infuriating. I'm convinced that I've had some essays where the grader only looked at the headings before giving me a score. Did the 70 essay use different headings or organize it any differently at all? It's all so arbitrary, really.

FinallyPassedTheBar

Bronze
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:27 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:22 pm

KatieSpades wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:Pretty pissed right now...I just finished reviewing one of my bar essays that scored a 55. Then I compared it to a 70 essay or Baressays.com. The 70 essay covered the exact same issues as mine, and also missed the exact same issues as mine. And we both irac'd!!! So pissed right now at the large point discrepancy!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


That is really infuriating. I'm convinced that I've had some essays where the grader only looked at the headings before giving me a score. Did the 70 essay use different headings or organize it any differently at all? It's all so arbitrary, really.



Yea my heading closely matched-up with the 70 essay too. And the organization was the same too (BTW it was Q3 from Feb 2015). Just to make myself feel better, I am treating this as if the 70 essay got was the wrong grade, and mine got the correct grade...because if is the other way around, I'd be still be upset for days.

BrokenMouse

Silver
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby BrokenMouse » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:08 pm

.
Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

needaday

New
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:15 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby needaday » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:44 pm

BrokenMouse wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:
KatieSpades wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:Pretty pissed right now...I just finished reviewing one of my bar essays that scored a 55. Then I compared it to a 70 essay or Baressays.com. The 70 essay covered the exact same issues as mine, and also missed the exact same issues as mine. And we both irac'd!!! So pissed right now at the large point discrepancy!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


That is really infuriating. I'm convinced that I've had some essays where the grader only looked at the headings before giving me a score. Did the 70 essay use different headings or organize it any differently at all? It's all so arbitrary, really.



Yea my heading closely matched-up with the 70 essay too. And the organization was the same too (BTW it was Q3 from Feb 2015). Just to make myself feel better, I am treating this as if the 70 essay got was the wrong grade, and mine got the correct grade...because if is the other way around, I'd be still be upset for days.


I'm a firm believer that bar graders are straight up incompetent assholes who don't fully do their jobs. So little is at stake for them (a few bucks per essays?) but so much for us. There are multiple essays I felt deserved 70+ but ended up getting a 60.


i volunteer robinhood to review your essays and see if he agrees that they deserved higher scores. i'm simply curious (and likely dont have the skill to do a proper analysis myself), though the results could be very eye-opening for you guys. Either you are correct and can take comfort in the fact that you prepared for and wrote the essays the "right" way or you are incorrect and the exercise will help you properly assess your weaknesses in order to kill the exam in Feb. i admit that i am skeptical when ppl claim their essays should've gotten higher scores (probably b/c it makes me feel better). at the same time, i'm a firm believer that the essay grading can at times be completely arbitrary. go figure.

FinallyPassedTheBar

Bronze
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:27 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:17 pm

needaday wrote:i volunteer robinhood to review your essays and see if he agrees that they deserved higher scores. i'm simply curious (and likely dont have the skill to do a proper analysis myself), though the results could be very eye-opening for you guys. Either you are correct and can take comfort in the fact that you prepared for and wrote the essays the "right" way or you are incorrect and the exercise will help you properly assess your weaknesses in order to kill the exam in Feb. i admit that i am skeptical when ppl claim their essays should've gotten higher scores (probably b/c it makes me feel better). at the same time, i'm a firm believer that the essay grading can at times be completely arbitrary. go figure.



I am not necessarily disputing that my 55 grade was justified...just shocked that a very similar essay got a 70 grade. That large point discrepancy makes me suspicious regarding the fairness of essay grading overall. I would be up for someone to compare my 55 against the 70...but not entirely sure it is kosher to redistribute essays from Baressays.com (probably not)

BrokenMouse

Silver
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby BrokenMouse » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:09 am

.
Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

narfkarta

Bronze
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby narfkarta » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:52 am


BrokenMouse

Silver
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby BrokenMouse » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:49 pm

.
Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starryski

Bronze
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:04 am

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby starryski » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:18 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:...never have I been so depressed.

Failed attempts:
July 2001
Feb 2002
July 2002
July 2003
Feb 2015
July 2015

(graduated from an ABA school that straddles the 3rd/4th tier)


i feel for you. what were your MBE scores? i would recommend a tutor. i dont know much else to say i failed NY July 2015 by 5 points :(

Icametowin

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:55 pm

Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby Icametowin » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:12 pm

Any Oakland California hotel recommendations? $100 or less.



Return to “Bar Exam Prep and Discussion Forum�

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JakeTappers and 31 guests