Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

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rcharter1978

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby rcharter1978 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:56 am

6TimeFailure wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:what's the endgame here, friend?


Employment as a lawyer is a long shot for me given my graduation date (2001). So I am not trying to pass the bar in hopes of finding employment as a lawyer. The two main reasons I am still taking the Feb bar:

1. Validate my education and prove to my self I can pass it.
2. My mom. She is a senior citizen. Even though she has repeatedly said she is fine with whatever I do, bar passage or not, I know that deep down she wants me to officially be a lawyer. I want to pass this before she passes away. I have recurring dreams of being by her deathbed apologizing to her for never passing the bar. I do not want that to become a reality.


I've debated back and forth between sharing, and this story will likely do nothing for you, but still.....

My father is in a profession that had an exam somewhat like the bar exam. He had his reasons, but he could not pass that exam for years. He took it quite a few times, and just couldn't pass. It was sort of something we never talked about as I grew up, we just knew it was like his personal Moby Dick and no one said a thing. My father still made money and had a rewarding career, even without having passed the exam.

He passed it about 8 years before he retired. He never made a big deal about it. It just meant that much to him to have finally accomplished that goal, even if it made no practical difference in his life. I think it made a world of difference to him, and he just seemed a little more at peace with himself having slain the beast.

I think if reason #1 was your only reason, it would be enough. I think when you finally get that passage notification, it will mean so much to you. I know its going to mean a hell of a lot to me when I pass.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby criduchat » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:20 am

I feel for you. If I were to suggest anything, I would subscribe to Baressays.com and look at the essays. Begin with reading them and just issue-spotting, without really having to draft one. And then see if you've hit the issues by comparing it to the model answers. Keep a running list of the issues you missed. Keep doing this and you will get a sense of how passing answers read. Eventually, try drafting your essays.

And for the MBE, just keep doing practice questions.

I second what people here have said- don't give up. And if this really means that much to you (and you're afraid that not passing would be your biggest regret), I would set aside as much time as I can to prepare.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby MBAtoJD » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:01 am

You need a private tutor; one-on-one help.

I'm a person who doesn't really recommend tutoring because I've always felt you can self-study and pass no matter who you are. However, in your case, I'll make an exception for the following reasons:

1. You've been out of law school since 2001
2. You've already tried self studying 6 times
3. You need a new game plan; something you've never done before
4. You may need some hand-holding and emotional support that self-study cannot give you
5. You need someone to grade your practice essays and teach you HOW to write one-on-one. Just reading and complaring essays on Baressays.com won't be enough. I mean, you can watch videos and read books on How to Swim, but until you get into the water yourself, you are not really learning how to swim.

You keep taking that exam until you pass. It's your personal goal and you can do it! Stop counting how many times you've taken it. When you study, look at it as if it is your first time.

Also, it's your decision but if I were you I won't tell your mom you are taking it again. It would put too much pressure on you. There's really no need to tell her...I bet she's worried for you. You don't need to mentally take her with you to the exam room even though you are doing this for her too.

I passed after my third attempt in Feb 2015. A lot of it had to do with not telling anyone especially my dad I was taking it. I stressed out because he paid for school - I have no student loans (undergrad, grad and law school) so I felt I owed him passing; it was my thank you. I mentally took him with me to the exam hall; it was a burden. It felt like I was stabbing him every time I called him to say I failed. It was horrible. So I told him I was taking some time off. Just studying without him knowing felt like freedom. You learn more and faster when you have a clear mind. Heck, if I failed again, he won't have known so I won't have to stab him again. :cry:

YOU CAN; YOU WILL! End of story.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby comet_halley » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:02 pm

Yes, like Don Quixote, sometimes people do things just for the peace of mind.

It might mean nothing in reality, but means much for personal reasons.



rcharter1978 wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:what's the endgame here, friend?


Employment as a lawyer is a long shot for me given my graduation date (2001). So I am not trying to pass the bar in hopes of finding employment as a lawyer. The two main reasons I am still taking the Feb bar:

1. Validate my education and prove to my self I can pass it.
2. My mom. She is a senior citizen. Even though she has repeatedly said she is fine with whatever I do, bar passage or not, I know that deep down she wants me to officially be a lawyer. I want to pass this before she passes away. I have recurring dreams of being by her deathbed apologizing to her for never passing the bar. I do not want that to become a reality.


I've debated back and forth between sharing, and this story will likely do nothing for you, but still.....

My father is in a profession that had an exam somewhat like the bar exam. He had his reasons, but he could not pass that exam for years. He took it quite a few times, and just couldn't pass. It was sort of something we never talked about as I grew up, we just knew it was like his personal Moby Dick and no one said a thing. My father still made money and had a rewarding career, even without having passed the exam.

He passed it about 8 years before he retired. He never made a big deal about it. It just meant that much to him to have finally accomplished that goal, even if it made no practical difference in his life. I think it made a world of difference to him, and he just seemed a little more at peace with himself having slain the beast.

I think if reason #1 was your only reason, it would be enough. I think when you finally get that passage notification, it will mean so much to you. I know its going to mean a hell of a lot to me when I pass.

crossingforHYS

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby crossingforHYS » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:05 pm

Honestly, I did not know what I was doing wrong when I first took the exam, and I have to say I worked with Stephani Sexton (the tutor I had) and she is AMAZING. Everyone I know loved her.

She does not focus on the information---that you already know! You studied a shit ton. She will help with information but she really breaks down HOW you have to approach the question and what you need to do to be able to really understand the bar.

PM me and I can give you her number. If anyone else is interested please let me know too.

She is a lifesaver and I could not have EVER done it without her.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby comet_halley » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:12 pm

I agree with your approach to essays, the model answers are actually the best study materials. Just try to memorize the issues they brought up, the way they were written. I believe that more than 80% of issues had been shown up in the past exams. For the same topics, almost the same issues you need to bring up in every exam.

For MBE, after practicing questions, I think you need to understand why you made the wrong choices. Even if you make the right choices, you still need to know the reason why. If you use wrong theories to get the right answers, you need to remember the right rules.



criduchat wrote:I feel for you. If I were to suggest anything, I would subscribe to Baressays.com and look at the essays. Begin with reading them and just issue-spotting, without really having to draft one. And then see if you've hit the issues by comparing it to the model answers. Keep a running list of the issues you missed. Keep doing this and you will get a sense of how passing answers read. Eventually, try drafting your essays.

And for the MBE, just keep doing practice questions.

I second what people here have said- don't give up. And if this really means that much to you (and you're afraid that not passing would be your biggest regret), I would set aside as much time as I can to prepare.

FinallyPassedTheBar

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:27 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
I've debated back and forth between sharing, and this story will likely do nothing for you, but still.....

My father is in a profession that had an exam somewhat like the bar exam. He had his reasons, but he could not pass that exam for years. He took it quite a few times, and just couldn't pass. It was sort of something we never talked about as I grew up, we just knew it was like his personal Moby Dick and no one said a thing. My father still made money and had a rewarding career, even without having passed the exam.

He passed it about 8 years before he retired. He never made a big deal about it. It just meant that much to him to have finally accomplished that goal, even if it made no practical difference in his life. I think it made a world of difference to him, and he just seemed a little more at peace with himself having slain the beast.

I think if reason #1 was your only reason, it would be enough. I think when you finally get that passage notification, it will mean so much to you. I know its going to mean a hell of a lot to me when I pass.



Thanks for this post rcharter1978. It certainly is uplifting. And thanks for all the other kind words of encouragement everybody, I appreciate it very much.

I think one of the major errors I made after my Feb 2015 attempt is not reviewing my answers with the model answers.

Anyhow, I just started reviewing my Feb 2015 answers, and I am quite shocked at what I wrote (or didn't write). It seems like I totally omitted the main issues staring me in the face, and instead directly jumped into the sub-issue. For example, omitting any discussion of contract formation, and instead immediately discussing UCC.

I am using Baressays.com, and I find it very useful.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:43 pm

My scores:

q1: 55
q2: 55
q3: 60
q4: 55
q5: 50
q6: 50
pt a: 50
pt b: 55

scaled MBE: 1302

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:08 pm

Well I am 45 minutes into my bar review, and I am kicking myself. After reviewing my Feb 2015 answers, it seems that I failed to discuss major issues...not because I did not spot those issues or was unaware of the rule. It's because the fact pattern said that the issue was already "properly" decided. For example, if the fact pattern said that the plaintiff "properly" alleged diversity jurisdiction, I never discussed why that the court had subject matter jurisdiction based on diversity of citizenship. I just assumed that it was already a settled matter because the fact pattern included the word "properly". Imagine not discussing jurisdiction for a Civ Pro question!

This is really the first time I am directly comparing my answers with model answers. Yes I know I probably failed the bar more times than anyone here, so just take my advice with a grain of salt. But I think it is crucial to go over your answers with a fine tooth comb. (Yes it sucks to have to wait almost 4 weeks for the bar to mail your answers back).

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:39 am

Anyone have an Adaptibar coupon code they can share? All the results from google searches are expired.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby n900mixalot » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:49 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:Well I am 45 minutes into my bar review, and I am kicking myself. After reviewing my Feb 2015 answers, it seems that I failed to discuss major issues...not because I did not spot those issues or was unaware of the rule. It's because the fact pattern said that the issue was already "properly" decided. For example, if the fact pattern said that the plaintiff "properly" alleged diversity jurisdiction, I never discussed why that the court had subject matter jurisdiction based on diversity of citizenship. I just assumed that it was already a settled matter because the fact pattern included the word "properly". Imagine not discussing jurisdiction for a Civ Pro question!

This is really the first time I am directly comparing my answers with model answers. Yes I know I probably failed the bar more times than anyone here, so just take my advice with a grain of salt. But I think it is crucial to go over your answers with a fine tooth comb. (Yes it sucks to have to wait almost 4 weeks for the bar to mail your answers back).


Interesting.

I've failed an "easier" bar three times. Someone above called failing the bar a "Moby Dick," and boy are they right. Failing haunts me ... and I can't stand it when people say, "Awww but you didn't fail, at least you tried," or some other hippie bullsheh' like that.

Anyway, I can tell by your writing that it isn't your intelligence that is holding you back, it's something else.

I'm in a UBE jurisdiction, and I compared my written answers to the model answers provided and this last time I absolutely cannot figure out where I went wrong. I spotted the same issues, had the same analysis, etc. I fell an annoying eight points short. The first time I was more than double that, and the second time I was less than the first--which should NOT happen if the exam writers truly wrote exams that were equivalent as far as difficulty is concerned. I truly believe that is a flat-out lie. Oops, a little bitterness ...

I'm not sure I want to deal with taking the exam again because I don't want to be an attorney. I'm happy with what I do now, but unfortunately what I do now pays absolute garbage. And there is no "opportunity" out here in these boondocks. Plus that Moby Dick thing ...

You sound far more determined to take and pass the bar than I am--I've become bitter and that's not a good state of mind to be in to give it my all--so add another person to the list of people who are rooting for you and do what you need to do. If you are seeing ways you can progress and improve, there's really no reason why you can't get there. If you're not, and you're spinning your wheels, then maybe it's time to work on some more healing.

I'm happy to see that there is someone out there who really wants it. That's motivational, and you've got motivation for sure.

Git R done!

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby rcharter1978 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:38 pm

6TimeFailure wrote:Anyone have an Adaptibar coupon code they can share? All the results from google searches are expired.


I'm going to PM it to you. Its for $65 off

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby BrokenMouse » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:32 am

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby comet_halley » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:59 pm

I don't think it is a matter of understanding the black letter law. I feel what the OP lacks is understanding how to take the exam.
Although unlike law school, professors give out grades according to their tastes. Bar exam has its style.
If you don't get it, you are unable to score a high grades.

Just do more practice exams, compare them to model answers. You will hone your skills.






BrokenMouse wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:My scores:

q1: 55
q2: 55
q3: 60
q4: 55
q5: 50
q6: 50
pt a: 50
pt b: 55

scaled MBE: 1302


I'm gonna be straight up with you. Judging based on your scaled MBE alone, you have a fundamental lack of understanding in black letter law. This is the most glaring deficiency I see in your report. You really need to sit down and look over a rule in a cluster for each issue. You need to be able to recite the rule without looking at your notes for each issue that comes up.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby KatieSpades » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:22 am

I think it's hard for people who aren't repeaters of the CA bar to understand. As a multiple repeater myself, "just take another bar" or "move on and do something else" is much easier said than done (at least for me) and it's not something I'm considering at this point. Hell, I may never even actually practice law at all and I don't even live in CA right now but I WILL pass the CA bar exam because it's a personal goal of mine and it would mean a lot to me, even just for peace of mind at this point.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby grand inquisitor » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:29 am

op, I don't think the effort is worth the candle at this point if you are really just doing this for self- and mum-validation. there are lot's of goals worth striving for in life, but continuing to undertake this sisyphean task for a marginal reason is a waste of your time. walk away.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby BrokenMouse » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:47 pm

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Last edited by BrokenMouse on Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby rcharter1978 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:55 pm

To OP. Personally, I don't think you should give up. I think sometimes its easy for those who have passed or aren't in your shoes to say its not worth it. And logically...it probably isn't, but I think when you do pass it, it will mean the world to you and it will do things for your life that you couldn't imagine without that monkey on your back. My dad once told me "sometimes its not about the destination, its about the journey, its about setting a goal and knowing you can achieve it." And I think its true.

It may be a matter of black letter law. If it is, then perhaps you're a good writer and all you need to do is work on black letter law. Its been a long time since you've first taken the test and I don't know if you were able to devote all your time and attention to studying on past bar exams. So, go balls to the wall. You have adaptibar....I vaguely remember you saying you did Barbri. I was told by at least one person to study the CMR and forget the lecture book. In retrospect, I think its good to pay attention to both, but I can see the value of the CMR.

If you're gonna go balls to the wall this time, maybe you should consider a tutor. Someone that can really assess where your strengths and weaknesses are and come up with a study plan suited for you. Tutors can also help with those self-esteem issues as they see your improvement and you see your improvement. Tutors are expensive, but it could be the right move for you. If you really don't have that money, maybe a study group.

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby KTnKT » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:43 pm

OP, have you read this story?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it2EDnPRrcI
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/band ... m-law.html A lady passed the exam on her 14th try. She seemed to think it was worth it.

End of the day, what we think doesn't matter. It if a short life and you should spend it how you want to spend it. So go for it.

But, just try something new. Sounds like adaptibar and bar essays will be different. A tutor might help.

Also, how have your scores been trending? Getting better, all over the place or stagnant? What were you averaging on practice tests prior to taking the exam (i.e. could it just be test anxiety dragging you down where a medication might help where extra studying isn't needed)?

Good luck!

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby duskfall » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:07 am

6TimeFailure wrote:Here's the study program I did for each attempt:

July 2001 (full Barbri live lecture program)
Feb 2002 (self-study from Barbri notes)
July 2002 (full Barbri live lecture program)
July 2003 (self-study from Barbri notes + Essay Advantage)
Feb 2015 (self-study from 2013 Barbri materials + Barbri Lectures on DVD + Bar Breaker book by Jeff Adachi)
July 2015 (self-study from 2013 Barbri materials + Barbri Lectures on DVD + Bar Breaker book by Jeff Adachi)

I am thinking of using Baressay.com this time around.

Why don't you try to get licensed in another state? Sometimes getting licensed else where will give u confidence to pass CBX

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:56 am

Thanks for all the comments everyone! I am so determined than ever before to pass this thing. I hope to post here with good news by next May.

On a side note, is anyone here using Adaptibar right now? Have you gotten to the Civ Pro questions? That's the toughest subject for me...I am only getting 40% correct on them with many sheer guesses. The other subjects I am in the 60 to high 70 percent range ( 78% on Con Law yay!)

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby rcharter1978 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:58 am

6TimeFailure wrote:Thanks for all the comments everyone! I am so determined than ever before to pass this thing. I hope to post here with good news by next May.

On a side note, is anyone here using Adaptibar right now? Have you gotten to the Civ Pro questions? That's the toughest subject for me...I am only getting 40% correct on them with many sheer guesses. The other subjects I am in the 60 to high 70 percent range ( 78% on Con Law yay!)


I haven't gotten the adaptibar civ pro portion, and I don't know how many real questions they could have since civ pro was recently introduced.

I CAN say that I thought the Barbri lecturer on CivPro was actually really good so that might help!

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:04 am

rcharter1978 wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:Thanks for all the comments everyone! I am so determined than ever before to pass this thing. I hope to post here with good news by next May.

On a side note, is anyone here using Adaptibar right now? Have you gotten to the Civ Pro questions? That's the toughest subject for me...I am only getting 40% correct on them with many sheer guesses. The other subjects I am in the 60 to high 70 percent range ( 78% on Con Law yay!)


I haven't gotten the adaptibar civ pro portion, and I don't know how many real questions they could have since civ pro was recently introduced.

I CAN say that I thought the Barbri lecturer on CivPro was actually really good so that might help!



Are you referring to the Civ Pro lecture by the prof from Emory Law School? (I forgot his name). I am studying from his Barbri outline...might watch his lecture again, but not sure if re-watching lectures is time efficient.

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rcharter1978

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby rcharter1978 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:12 am

6TimeFailure wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
6TimeFailure wrote:Thanks for all the comments everyone! I am so determined than ever before to pass this thing. I hope to post here with good news by next May.

On a side note, is anyone here using Adaptibar right now? Have you gotten to the Civ Pro questions? That's the toughest subject for me...I am only getting 40% correct on them with many sheer guesses. The other subjects I am in the 60 to high 70 percent range ( 78% on Con Law yay!)


I haven't gotten the adaptibar civ pro portion, and I don't know how many real questions they could have since civ pro was recently introduced.

I CAN say that I thought the Barbri lecturer on CivPro was actually really good so that might help!



Are you referring to the Civ Pro lecture by the prof from Emory Law School? (I forgot his name). I am studying from his Barbri outline...might watch his lecture again, but not sure if re-watching lectures is time efficient.


Yeah, Richard Freer. I liked his lecture and I thought it was pretty clear. If you already watched his lecture don't do it again. I guess you learn more from the questions you get wrong than from the right answers! Keep it up girl or guy!

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Re: Just Failed CA Bar for the 6th Time...

Postby FinallyPassedTheBar » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:41 pm

I'm posting this here because I came across this issue in a sample Civ Pro MBE question. AFAIK my Barbri notes does not cover this issue.

Is there diversity jurisdiction with these facts?

Plaintiff citizen of State B
Defendant corporation's second largest plant in State A, largest plant in State B, incorporated in State C, Board of Dir. in State D.
Amount in controversy excess of $75K

I initially thought there was no diversity jurisdiction because the P and D share a citizenship state (State B). But the answer explanation said there is diversity jurisdiction on these facts. So does that mean a D corporation can choose its citizenship state in order to satisfy diversity?



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