Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

redblueyellow
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby redblueyellow » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:12 am

robinhoodOO wrote:Scenario 2: It completely depends on the basis the claim is brought as to whether (1) it should be denied because the third-party defendant is improperly bringing a claim or (2) Whether diversity is destroyed.

Under Rule 14, the third-party defendant MAY only assert (1) Defenses he would have against the original D (now also the third-party plaintiff) and (2) claims arising out of the same transaction or occurrence as P's original claim.

If the 3rd party D does this, it would invoke compulsory claims of P, which requires diversity only--no supplemental jurisdiction for these types of claims.


Thanks!

Follow up for clarification:

Prong 2 lets third party plaintiff sue the plaintiff for any claim arising out of the same transaction or occurrence. If it's an unrelated matter, third party plaintiff cannot assert anything against plaintiff.

Otherwise, against the original defendant, the third party plaintiff can only make claims for defenses?

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:30 am

redblueyellow wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Scenario 2: It completely depends on the basis the claim is brought as to whether (1) it should be denied because the third-party defendant is improperly bringing a claim or (2) Whether diversity is destroyed.

Under Rule 14, the third-party defendant MAY only assert (1) Defenses he would have against the original D (now also the third-party plaintiff) and (2) claims arising out of the same transaction or occurrence as P's original claim.

If the 3rd party D does this, it would invoke compulsory claims of P, which requires diversity only--no supplemental jurisdiction for these types of claims.


Thanks!

Follow up for clarification:

Prong 2 lets third party plaintiff sue the plaintiff for any claim arising out of the same transaction or occurrence. If it's an unrelated matter, third party plaintiff cannot assert anything against plaintiff.

Otherwise, against the original defendant, the third party plaintiff can only make claims for defenses?


Correct; 3rd party defendant may not assert anything outside of that.

And, also corrected on the second point. The 3rd party defendant is adverse to the third-party plaintiff (aka original defendant). He may bring permissive and must bring compulsory claims. Note, the permissive claims require independent SMJ (FQ or Diversity). In your original fact pattern, diversity would exist.

fadedsunrise
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby fadedsunrise » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:17 pm

redblueyellow wrote:Why is Kaplan testing us on pendant vs ancillary jurisdiction when all throughout law school (and Wikipedia!) it was taught that those no longer have any special distinction anymore and just to use the supplemental JX moniker?


Sort of related: why does Kaplan's outline conflict with Critical Pass in places? Its driving me insane :|
Kaplan calls malicious prosecution (from the Torts Bar Points) "the institution of criminal proceedings by a defendant, done for an improper purpose." The flashcards say it can be criminal or civil. :lol:

orangecup
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby orangecup » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:21 pm

fadedsunrise wrote:
redblueyellow wrote:Why is Kaplan testing us on pendant vs ancillary jurisdiction when all throughout law school (and Wikipedia!) it was taught that those no longer have any special distinction anymore and just to use the supplemental JX moniker?


Sort of related: why does Kaplan's outline conflict with Critical Pass in places? Its driving me insane :|
Kaplan calls malicious prosecution (from the Torts Bar Points) "the institution of criminal proceedings by a defendant, done for an improper purpose." The flashcards say it can be criminal or civil. :lol:


Yeah, it can be both criminal or civil. They covered it in the Torts fill-in the blank outline / lecture. Make sure you have down that the proceedings must go in P's favor (i.e., the one suing for malicious prosecution)

fadedsunrise
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby fadedsunrise » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:38 pm

orangecup wrote:
fadedsunrise wrote:
redblueyellow wrote:Why is Kaplan testing us on pendant vs ancillary jurisdiction when all throughout law school (and Wikipedia!) it was taught that those no longer have any special distinction anymore and just to use the supplemental JX moniker?


Sort of related: why does Kaplan's outline conflict with Critical Pass in places? Its driving me insane :|
Kaplan calls malicious prosecution (from the Torts Bar Points) "the institution of criminal proceedings by a defendant, done for an improper purpose." The flashcards say it can be criminal or civil. :lol:


Yeah, it can be both criminal or civil. They covered it in the Torts fill-in the blank outline / lecture. Make sure you have down that the proceedings must go in P's favor (i.e., the one suing for malicious prosecution)


Ah ok! Screw me for turning Levine off at halfway then. :x

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:36 pm

This Kaplan final MBE feels so much harder than the midterm. Christ. I'm only 100 questions in, 100 to go, so I don't know my score so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's under 60%. Frustrating considering I've been hovering around 80% on QBank questions for the past week.

At least two questions dealt with issues I had never seen. A few others dealt with things that were only mentioned once in passing in a lecture or an outline, so I've forgotten the rule. Tough practice exam.

orangecup
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby orangecup » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:41 pm

odoylerulez wrote:This Kaplan final MBE feels so much harder than the midterm. Christ. I'm only 100 questions in, 100 to go, so I don't know my score so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's under 60%. Frustrating considering I've been hovering around 80% on QBank questions for the past week.

At least two questions dealt with issues I had never seen. A few others dealt with things that were only mentioned once in passing in a lecture or an outline, so I've forgotten the rule. Tough practice exam.


Yeah, I felt the EXACT same way (was averaging 75-80% on the QBank) and ended up with 78%. So you may very well end up with a good score still.

FWIW, I felt that the second 100 questions were easier. Although I haven't checked what my score is in each half to determine whether that's true.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:50 pm

orangecup wrote:
odoylerulez wrote:This Kaplan final MBE feels so much harder than the midterm. Christ. I'm only 100 questions in, 100 to go, so I don't know my score so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's under 60%. Frustrating considering I've been hovering around 80% on QBank questions for the past week.

At least two questions dealt with issues I had never seen. A few others dealt with things that were only mentioned once in passing in a lecture or an outline, so I've forgotten the rule. Tough practice exam.


Yeah, I felt the EXACT same way (was averaging 75-80% on the QBank) and ended up with 78%. So you may very well end up with a good score still.

FWIW, I felt that the second 100 questions were easier. Although I haven't checked what my score is in each half to determine whether that's true.


Agreed with both of you guys. Brutal first 100 set so far. See how the latter goes, but I was floating around 72-76% in QBanks. No way I feel like I'll be anywhere near that...I just want an accurate representation of what we'll see on the Bar.

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:57 pm

There were two spots where I almost just started laughing because I got 3-4 questions in a row where I couldn't get it past 50/50.

Oh well, second set starting in 5 minutes. Here we go -- good luck to anyone else taking this beast today.

orangecup
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby orangecup » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:01 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:Agreed with both of you guys. Brutal first 100 set so far. See how the latter goes, but I was floating around 72-76% in QBanks. No way I feel like I'll be anywhere near that...I just want an accurate representation of what we'll see on the Bar.


Absolutely. I understand the rationale behind providing us with questions more difficult than the actual bar, but I don't think it's really a useful exercise in a "final review."

redblueyellow
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby redblueyellow » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:39 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
redblueyellow wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:Scenario 2: It completely depends on the basis the claim is brought as to whether (1) it should be denied because the third-party defendant is improperly bringing a claim or (2) Whether diversity is destroyed.

Under Rule 14, the third-party defendant MAY only assert (1) Defenses he would have against the original D (now also the third-party plaintiff) and (2) claims arising out of the same transaction or occurrence as P's original claim.

If the 3rd party D does this, it would invoke compulsory claims of P, which requires diversity only--no supplemental jurisdiction for these types of claims.


Thanks!

Follow up for clarification:

Prong 2 lets third party plaintiff sue the plaintiff for any claim arising out of the same transaction or occurrence. If it's an unrelated matter, third party plaintiff cannot assert anything against plaintiff.

Otherwise, against the original defendant, the third party plaintiff can only make claims for defenses?


Correct; 3rd party defendant may not assert anything outside of that.

And, also corrected on the second point. The 3rd party defendant is adverse to the third-party plaintiff (aka original defendant). He may bring permissive and must bring compulsory claims. Note, the permissive claims require independent SMJ (FQ or Diversity). In your original fact pattern, diversity would exist.


Crap, I used the wrong terminology. I meant to say

"Prong 2 lets third party plaintiff sue the plaintiff for any claim arising out of the same transaction or occurrence. If it's an unrelated matter, third party defendant cannot assert anything against plaintiff."

But regardless, I think the rule still applies. The new party (TPD) can only allege claims that are in the trans/occurrence against the plaintiff.

cmartin5970
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby cmartin5970 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:34 pm

Anyone else just take the Kaplan Final MBE? Just scored 137/200, I think that is good but I was wondering what that means as far as the essays. Can I just coast by with 5s on the essays if I get this score on the finals, or should I still be aiming for 6 and 7 on essays?

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:38 pm

cmartin5970 wrote:Anyone else just take the Kaplan Final MBE? Just scored 137/200, I think that is good but I was wondering what that means as far as the essays. Can I just coast by with 5s on the essays if I get this score on the finals, or should I still be aiming for 6 and 7 on essays?


Depends how much everything is weighted in your state.

cmartin5970
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby cmartin5970 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:40 pm

LAW813FL wrote:
cmartin5970 wrote:Anyone else just take the Kaplan Final MBE? Just scored 137/200, I think that is good but I was wondering what that means as far as the essays. Can I just coast by with 5s on the essays if I get this score on the finals, or should I still be aiming for 6 and 7 on essays?


Depends how much everything is weighted in your state.


60% Essay and 40% MBE

Taking in North Carolina, FWIW

wakeJD15
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby wakeJD15 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:09 pm

cmartin5970 wrote:
LAW813FL wrote:
cmartin5970 wrote:Anyone else just take the Kaplan Final MBE? Just scored 137/200, I think that is good but I was wondering what that means as far as the essays. Can I just coast by with 5s on the essays if I get this score on the finals, or should I still be aiming for 6 and 7 on essays?


Depends how much everything is weighted in your state.


60% Essay and 40% MBE

Taking in North Carolina, FWIW


I'm NC too and scored about the same. I hope that a raw score around 140 is good enough that we don't have to worry about the essays too much. Its just tough because the grading scale seems like such a black box

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:12 pm

...I just did worse on the final than on the midterm. Ugh. Still a relatively solid score overall but not where I wanted to be right now.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:24 pm

Ok, is the Kaplan site running super slowly / not loading at all for anyone else? I have zero patience for this right now...

orangecup
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby orangecup » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:35 pm

despina wrote:Ok, is the Kaplan site running super slowly / not loading at all for anyone else? I have zero patience for this right now...


Yep it's slow for me as well. Their servers are terrible, especially at night.

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:07 pm

Raw of 132 on the final. Sure didn't feel like it. +8 improvement from the midterm.

Evidence carried me. Went 27/29 on Evidence for a 93%. I did feel confident in those but felt awful in about everything else. Pooped the bed on Contracts once again, which is disappointing because I had been doing much better on Contracts in my QBank questions lately.

And, seriously WTF was the deal with all of the mortgage questions. There were 10 of them. Killed my Property score.

theramblinman
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby theramblinman » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:39 pm

Jumped over 25 points from midterm (111) to final (137). Certainly pleased in that regard, but I felt like there was a lot I did not know and going through the exam I thought I bombed. Also was surprised that contracts, my worst Qbank area, was my 2nd best topic today and torts, my best area, was my worst. Unsure what to make of all this.

redblueyellow
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby redblueyellow » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:22 pm

So I'm answering approximately 90% of the Civ Pro question from Kaplan correctly, but maybe 60-70% of the adaptibar questions (not including Civ Pro).

Yet if you put a keyboard in front of me and tell me to bang out an essay, I'm at a loss for words.

Florence Night
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Florence Night » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:40 pm

redblueyellow wrote:So I'm answering approximately 90% of the Civ Pro question from Kaplan correctly, but maybe 60-70% of the adaptibar questions (not including Civ Pro).

Yet if you put a keyboard in front of me and tell me to bang out an essay, I'm at a loss for words.


90?! Wow. Are the adaptibar questions that much tougher?

This has me wondering/worried now: anyone know how representative kaplan's civ pro questions are of the mbe civ pro question difficulty? I'm at around 72 and thought I was doing alright with them. Are they too easy?

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:53 pm

Isn't the point of Adaptibar that they keep showing your weakest subtopics? So your score with them is going to be lower, and less representative of the overall distribution of question types.

redblueyellow
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby redblueyellow » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:22 am

Florence Night wrote:
redblueyellow wrote:So I'm answering approximately 90% of the Civ Pro question from Kaplan correctly, but maybe 60-70% of the adaptibar questions (not including Civ Pro).

Yet if you put a keyboard in front of me and tell me to bang out an essay, I'm at a loss for words.


90?! Wow. Are the adaptibar questions that much tougher?

This has me wondering/worried now: anyone know how representative kaplan's civ pro questions are of the mbe civ pro question difficulty? I'm at around 72 and thought I was doing alright with them. Are they too easy?


To be fair, I've only done around 100 civ pro questions from kaplan, so it's not that large of a sample size. I could've gotten the easy ones, but I don't think I've missed many.

Missing questions left and right on adaptibar, though, for all subjects.

gregfootball2001
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gregfootball2001 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:25 pm

Are our essays/MPTs from the final going to be graded? Or just self-grading?




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