Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

orangecup
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby orangecup » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:35 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
orangecup wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:It really depends, but I generally still include sub-elements (to be clear, some of my sheets are not necessarily only "one" page). My approach is based on how I best recall large amounts of data.


Thx for the tips!

Ugh, I feel utterly incompetent at the essays. Like, even for subjects I've "memorized". I open up a family law essay, and the topics feel like they're side-issues we barely even covered. If I'm presented with this in the exam, how am I supposed to even proceed?


Can you provide an example of which essay and what issues you missed? Maybe we can provide a bit of guidance on tackling a CP essay...


It was NY 2010, Q4.

The first issue, for instance, was on permanent neglect of a parent. I knew the general rule, but I had no idea what standard applied (it turns out it was clear and convincing evidence). When in doubt, I have no idea what kind of rule I should be spitting out.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:10 pm

orangecup wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
orangecup wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:It really depends, but I generally still include sub-elements (to be clear, some of my sheets are not necessarily only "one" page). My approach is based on how I best recall large amounts of data.


Thx for the tips!

Ugh, I feel utterly incompetent at the essays. Like, even for subjects I've "memorized". I open up a family law essay, and the topics feel like they're side-issues we barely even covered. If I'm presented with this in the exam, how am I supposed to even proceed?


Can you provide an example of which essay and what issues you missed? Maybe we can provide a bit of guidance on tackling a CP essay...


It was NY 2010, Q4.

The first issue, for instance, was on permanent neglect of a parent. I knew the general rule, but I had no idea what standard applied (it turns out it was clear and convincing evidence). When in doubt, I have no idea what kind of rule I should be spitting out.


Oh; hell. I thought you were referring to a community property question from a CA Q. Sorry, man, I'm not help there :(

theramblinman
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby theramblinman » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:15 pm

despina wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
despina wrote:I have the same problem, and have started doing the 1-2 page thing as well. I've found it helpful.

My state's essays are 36 minutes, and so far even when I spot all the issues, I have trouble thoroughly writing them all out in that time frame. What I've done for a few is focus my time on the couple of issues that I am most confident on -- I figure better to get a solid 4-5 than to try to half-ass my way to a 7 and end up with a 2/3? Then if I have extra time at the end I quickly try to capture the other few issues.

...and sometimes I juuust don't spot the issues. Did a practice contracts / agency essay where I talked all about why the modification was valid and why the employees had the authority to bind their companies to the modification. Kicked ass on that, but totally forgot to talk about why the original contract was valid, what it required, and how it had been breached. Wound up with a Kaplan score of 3. Oops.

[ETA my state's essays are graded out of 7, I guess this isn't universal]


36 minutes? That seems bizarre...How can you review and write something of substance in 36 minutes...Which state?


MA, and yeah, it's bananas. Five essays in the morning (3 hours) and five in the afternoon (another 3 hours). Kaplan's recommendation is to spend 12 minutes sloooowly reading the question and picking out issues, and 24 minutes keyboard mashing. Supposedly most of the questions only have like 5-8 key issues, but a lot of times they're mixed (a contracts problem that has an agency issue and a professional responsibility issue, or a domestic relations question with a property issue and a torts issue, etc). I really need to speed up my recall of rules in order to race through these efficiently.


In Ohio, our essays are only 30 minutes. But the essays usually have multiple prompts which sets up the analysis for us.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:21 pm

theramblinman wrote:In Ohio, our essays are only 30 minutes. But the essays usually have multiple prompts which sets up the analysis for us.


Oooh that's nice. Ours are usually "what are the rights, liabilities, and defenses of the parties" or "what crimes have been committed" etc and you just have to figure out which topic(s) are afoot and which issues they want. Occasionally for evidence or civ pro it's "how should the court rule on the following motions" which is at least a nicer hint.

integralx2
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby integralx2 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:44 am

Does anyone know how close you have to be to the model answers on essays? Sometimes I feel like an idiot with Kaplan's model answers.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:22 am

integralx2 wrote:Does anyone know how close you have to be to the model answers on essays? Sometimes I feel like an idiot with Kaplan's model answers.



I wouldn't know, but sometimes they're blatantly wrong (the one's Kaplan prepares and even the one's the Bar examiners choose). There was a services contract where a guy said the plaintiff could recover lost profits as a lost volume seller under the UCC.

Anyway, I would focus more on hitting the issues in the outlines or the issues more or less hit in the Bar's selected answers. Do the essay and then review the outlines and Bar's answers. Figure out why you might have missed something, connect the dots, and move on to the next one. Don't spend your time trying to mimic Kap's essays...

gregfootball2001
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gregfootball2001 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:44 am

Doesn't seem to be many Kaplan replies in the "how far ahead or behind are you" thread - are you guys doing everything Kaplan says? Skipping stuff? Doing extra?

I'm about 3 days behind now, so I'm skipping some of the essays and checkpoint quizzes. I'm trying to do some extra mixed-Qbank quizzes, though. I'm in a 20-30-50 (MPT-essay-MBE) state, so MBE is king. Should take the final on Wed or Thurs.

integralx2
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby integralx2 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:53 am

gregfootball2001 wrote:Doesn't seem to be many Kaplan replies in the "how far ahead or behind are you" thread - are you guys doing everything Kaplan says? Skipping stuff? Doing extra?

I'm about 3 days behind now, so I'm skipping some of the essays and checkpoint quizzes. I'm trying to do some extra mixed-Qbank quizzes, though. I'm in a 20-30-50 (MPT-essay-MBE) state, so MBE is king. Should take the final on Wed or Thurs.


I usually do the checkpoint quizes cause Kaplan bases them of previous essays if it's a non-MBE subject.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:43 pm

gregfootball2001 wrote:Doesn't seem to be many Kaplan replies in the "how far ahead or behind are you" thread - are you guys doing everything Kaplan says? Skipping stuff? Doing extra?

I'm about 3 days behind now, so I'm skipping some of the essays and checkpoint quizzes. I'm trying to do some extra mixed-Qbank quizzes, though. I'm in a 20-30-50 (MPT-essay-MBE) state, so MBE is king. Should take the final on Wed or Thurs.


I'm technically current on the syllabus (as in I'll be doing what I'm supposed to do tomorrow--Securities), but I have skipped a lot of shit throughout. The only things I have done with absolute consistency are watching the lectures, filling in and formatting my outline, and the checkpoint quizzes. For about half the days, I haven't gotten to one thing or another (whether it be the additional 33 ?s or the essay. I plan to do those as part of my review in the coming week or two.

Florence Night
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Florence Night » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:41 pm

Maybe this has been discussed earlier in the thread, I don't know.

When Kaplan says to take your raw score on the mid term or final practice MBE and add about 15 to get your scaled score, based on their experience with their tests and actual scoring, are they saying add 15 to your number correct out of 200, (so if you got 125/200, it correlates to 140 scaled on real thing. OR, do they mean add 15 to the number you'd get right out of 190 based on your percentage correct (so if you got 125/200, that's 62.5% = 118/190 = 133 scaled score)? Maybe it doesn't matter, just a practice test, etc., I know...but #nerves

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:46 pm

It's quite annoying that my weakest subjects are Contracts, Evidence, and Real Property while my strengths are BA, Wills/Estates, and Trusts.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:04 pm

Florence Night wrote:Maybe this has been discussed earlier in the thread, I don't know.

When Kaplan says to take your raw score on the mid term or final practice MBE and add about 15 to get your scaled score, based on their experience with their tests and actual scoring, are they saying add 15 to your number correct out of 200, (so if you got 125/200, it correlates to 140 scaled on real thing. OR, do they mean add 15 to the number you'd get right out of 190 based on your percentage correct (so if you got 125/200, that's 62.5% = 118/190 = 133 scaled score)? Maybe it doesn't matter, just a practice test, etc., I know...but #nerves


My understanding is that you add 15 to the number you got right, so if you got 125/200, your approximate scaled score is 140. If it were the latter, they would have to spell that out.

The missing info is... what the hell is a scaled score of 140 and where does it get me on my state's exam? Mysteryyyyy...

redblueyellow
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby redblueyellow » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:13 am

Does anyone know if there's any way to print the MBE question/answers from the QBank? I'd rather have them on paper than to do them all online. The books have distinct questions in some cases, so I'd prefer the online ones at this time.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:30 pm

redblueyellow wrote:Does anyone know if there's any way to print the MBE question/answers from the QBank? I'd rather have them on paper than to do them all online. The books have distinct questions in some cases, so I'd prefer the online ones at this time.


Yes, you can. Start the 'quiz' how'd you normally start it (selecting the Q's and number, etc.). Then, next to where you can change font size is a print button. Click the print button and print the entire set you just organized.

Hope this helps :)

fadedsunrise
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby fadedsunrise » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:56 pm

I don't know if I'm getting lost in the trees again, but I have another law question:

In Crim Pro; Double Jeopardy, the Bar Points book says that an exception to double jeopardy is "when at the time jeopardy attaches for the first offense all the elements of the second offense have not occurred, a later trial for the greater offense is permitted."

Given the above, if D commits, say, burglary, and injures the victim, but the victim dies only after D is acquitted of burglary, would D be subject to punishment for felony murder? One of the California MBE midterm questions turned on this and the right answer was no, D couldn't be tried for felony murder even though the victim did not die before acquittal, because D was acquitted of the underlying burglary and thus double jeopardy attached. (I'd type out the question but it was a monstrous novel of a question).

Does death of the victim not count as a missing "element of the second offense?"

wakeJD15
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby wakeJD15 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:47 pm

fadedsunrise wrote:I don't know if I'm getting lost in the trees again, but I have another law question:

In Crim Pro; Double Jeopardy, the Bar Points book says that an exception to double jeopardy is "when at the time jeopardy attaches for the first offense all the elements of the second offense have not occurred, a later trial for the greater offense is permitted."

Given the above, if D commits, say, burglary, and injures the victim, but the victim dies only after D is acquitted of burglary, would D be subject to punishment for felony murder? One of the California MBE midterm questions turned on this and the right answer was no, D couldn't be tried for felony murder even though the victim did not die before acquittal, because D was acquitted of the underlying burglary and thus double jeopardy attached. (I'd type out the question but it was a monstrous novel of a question).

Does death of the victim not count as a missing "element of the second offense?"



He can't be convicted of felony murder because he was acquitted of the underlying felony already. Kind of like issue preclusion in Civ Pro.

Conversely, if he was convicted of burglary and then the victim died, D could then be convicted of felony murder because of the missing element.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:16 pm

wakeJD15 wrote:
fadedsunrise wrote:I don't know if I'm getting lost in the trees again, but I have another law question:

In Crim Pro; Double Jeopardy, the Bar Points book says that an exception to double jeopardy is "when at the time jeopardy attaches for the first offense all the elements of the second offense have not occurred, a later trial for the greater offense is permitted."

Given the above, if D commits, say, burglary, and injures the victim, but the victim dies only after D is acquitted of burglary, would D be subject to punishment for felony murder? One of the California MBE midterm questions turned on this and the right answer was no, D couldn't be tried for felony murder even though the victim did not die before acquittal, because D was acquitted of the underlying burglary and thus double jeopardy attached. (I'd type out the question but it was a monstrous novel of a question).

Does death of the victim not count as a missing "element of the second offense?"



He can't be convicted of felony murder because he was acquitted of the underlying felony already. Kind of like issue preclusion in Civ Pro.

Conversely, if he was convicted of burglary and then the victim died, D could then be convicted of felony murder because of the missing element.


This is correct. This is more of a double jeopardy red herring and Collateral Estoppel issue.

But, I'd add that he could still potentially be tried/charged on an alternate theory w/no DJ and no issue preclusion. For example, say D broke into the house to steal and changed his mind to rape/kill Victoria once inside. Nothing to stop Pros from charging rape or 1st degree murder even if D acquitted of burglary prior to. Just no relitigating burglary (because DJ) or felony murder (because CE).

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:56 pm

How often is everybody using the "Ask an Expert" service and how are you finding it? In June I was only using it a few times a week but now I'm using it multiple times a day as I delve deeper and discover inconsistencies between the various materials, or try to apply rules on essays and find myself stumped. So far it's been very helpful, especially for state distinctions.

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anjmissy
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anjmissy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:04 pm

despina wrote:How often is everybody using the "Ask an Expert" service and how are you finding it? In June I was only using it a few times a week but now I'm using it multiple times a day as I delve deeper and discover inconsistencies between the various materials, or try to apply rules on essays and find myself stumped. So far it's been very helpful, especially for state distinctions.


I definitely use it multiple times a day..even from the beginning..I even use it to complain about essay graders..one gave me 6/20 and I was sure this guy just didn't even read..I complained, someone else reviewed and my score was 13/20, over double what the original grader gave me.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:50 pm

This just in lads and ladies (MBE info that is actually sort of a helpful indicator):

MBE Scoring: Your Midterm and Final

The national raw score average for the Midterm MBE was around 115. On the actual exam, your raw score will be scaled, a statistical method that usually adds between 10 and 20 points to the raw score.

The national raw score average for the Final MBE Practice Exam was 120. Again, on the actual exam, your raw score will be scaled, adding between 10 and 20 points to the raw score.

For the MBE exam, we usually recommend that you aim to get about two-thirds (67%) of the questions correct. This gives you a cushion; in case you fall a little short of that goal, you will still likely be in passing range, given adequate performance on other sections of your bar exam.
Your Final MBE score is a status report of where you are in terms of your ultimate goal and a tool for improving your Exam-day performance. As Professor Chris Fromm points out in his Final Review videos, a purposeful review of the Final Practice Exam's questions should itself add several points to your Exam-day performance. Indeed, learning to avoid some common pitfalls or gaining insight into a 'Big Ticket Item' can translate into significant improvement. So, even if you are below the 120 average, you are on track to succeed if you can hone in on those extra 10 to 20 points that every one of you can find by working through the Final Review sessions, using your Final Study Plan (which will appear after you complete the Final Review) and staying focused over this last week of study. Good luck! The entire Kaplan Bar Review team is looking forward to celebrating your success!

JenOkie
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby JenOkie » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:02 am

What is the time allocation that we should your for the CA Bar Essay at PT's. I know for the PT's we need 90mins to right but i forget how Kaplan distinguished the time allocations for the read read read, write and weave etc as well as reading the library then returning to the file?

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3|ink
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby 3|ink » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:43 am

You know what would be more helpful on these essays? Wrong answers. Show the essay that didn't quite make it so I can get a better idea of just how much I can slack.

gabewatch
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby gabewatch » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:45 am

They saved the worst for last. This securities lecture with wayne barnes is unbearable.

dat209
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby dat209 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:33 pm

gabewatch wrote:They saved the worst for last. This securities lecture with wayne barnes is unbearable.

100% agree. Went too fast, didn't line up with the outline. Great way to go out.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:36 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:This just in lads and ladies (MBE info that is actually sort of a helpful indicator):

MBE Scoring: Your Midterm and Final

The national raw score average for the Midterm MBE was around 115. On the actual exam, your raw score will be scaled, a statistical method that usually adds between 10 and 20 points to the raw score.

The national raw score average for the Final MBE Practice Exam was 120. Again, on the actual exam, your raw score will be scaled, adding between 10 and 20 points to the raw score.

For the MBE exam, we usually recommend that you aim to get about two-thirds (67%) of the questions correct. This gives you a cushion; in case you fall a little short of that goal, you will still likely be in passing range, given adequate performance on other sections of your bar exam.
Your Final MBE score is a status report of where you are in terms of your ultimate goal and a tool for improving your Exam-day performance. As Professor Chris Fromm points out in his Final Review videos, a purposeful review of the Final Practice Exam's questions should itself add several points to your Exam-day performance. Indeed, learning to avoid some common pitfalls or gaining insight into a 'Big Ticket Item' can translate into significant improvement. So, even if you are below the 120 average, you are on track to succeed if you can hone in on those extra 10 to 20 points that every one of you can find by working through the Final Review sessions, using your Final Study Plan (which will appear after you complete the Final Review) and staying focused over this last week of study. Good luck! The entire Kaplan Bar Review team is looking forward to celebrating your success!


Wait, when the hell was the Final Practice exam? I still have lectures (and only an optional "Practice Exam" scheduled for next week)! Did I miss something? Or is everyone else just on a much different schedule?




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