Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:16 pm

a male human wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.

Doesn't make me laugh because that "joke" got old the first time.


Speaking of, what do you call 100 lawyers on the bottom of the ocean? :lol:

I suppose I should've said "shake my head" instead of "laugh."

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:21 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
a male human wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.

Doesn't make me laugh because that "joke" got old the first time.


Speaking of, what do you call 100 lawyers on the bottom of the ocean? :lol:

I suppose I should've said "shake my head" instead of "laugh."

A solution?

astorian
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby astorian » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:27 pm

This might be already discussed... but adjusted to Kaplan's questions (as they say they are more difficult than the bar) what is the approximate passing percentage for the Qbank stuff?

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:35 pm

astorian wrote:This might be already discussed... but adjusted to Kaplan's questions (as they say they are more difficult than the bar) what is the approximate passing percentage for the Qbank stuff?


They said the national average for the Midterm was 117 which is 58.5%. They estimated above 120 was where you really want to be, which is 60%. They said they wouldn't speculate beyond that in terms of extrapolating their scores as predictions for the bar

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:39 pm

My understanding of the "120 is where you want to be" is that they mean "120 means as of today you're on track to pass if you continue to work hard." I don't think they specifically said "120 is a good score if you were to take the actual test today." I ranted about this a few pages back... basically nobody seems to know what percentage I should actually be aiming for on the MBE and this makes me insane.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:52 am

a male human wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
a male human wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.

Doesn't make me laugh because that "joke" got old the first time.


Speaking of, what do you call 100 lawyers on the bottom of the ocean? :lol:

I suppose I should've said "shake my head" instead of "laugh."

A solution?


Haha the answer is always some variation of "a good start." It's the "joke" I hear all the time when I tell people what I'm studying.

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:35 am

Am I the only one starting to struggle right about now (or, struggling more than before, at least)? I was mostly keeping up with things, but I felt like I hit a brick wall yesterday. Didn't even finish Conflict of Laws stuff, probably won't. Moving on.
Last edited by odoylerulez on Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby a male human » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:35 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:
a male human wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
a male human wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.

Doesn't make me laugh because that "joke" got old the first time.


Speaking of, what do you call 100 lawyers on the bottom of the ocean? :lol:

I suppose I should've said "shake my head" instead of "laugh."

A solution?


Haha the answer is always some variation of "a good start." It's the "joke" I hear all the time when I tell people what I'm studying.

I like that one better! Gonna tell people this one :)

pike08706
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby pike08706 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:09 pm

Anyone else having regular lecture freezing problems? I didn't have any up until today but my Agency lecture keeps freezing and not starting back up. My connection is fine and my computer is new. It is something with the Kaplan video player software. Really frustrating.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:29 pm

pike08706 wrote:Anyone else having regular lecture freezing problems? I didn't have any up until today but my Agency lecture keeps freezing and not starting back up. My connection is fine and my computer is new. It is something with the Kaplan video player software. Really frustrating.


I've had this occur with several lectures. Rebooting my computer and starting over has helped. Or, simply pause for a few minutes and let it load up some.

But, ya, very annoying...

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:51 pm

odoylerulez wrote:Am I the only one starting to struggle right about now (or, struggling more than before, at least)? I was mostly keeping up with things, but I felt like I hit a brick wall yesterday. Didn't even finish Conflict of Laws stuff, probably won't. Moving on.


I've been struggling for the entirety, but this week has been the worst. I think it's a combination of being overwhelmed by all the stuff we've gone over already, realization of how quickly the exam is approaching, and this being a very heavy week. I saw yesterday's syllabus of having to watch and study two separate lectures about two different topics in addition to taking a checkpoint quiz for each and knew it wasn't all happening. Maybe I'll go back and give Conflicts some more attention at some point, but for now, fuck it.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:55 pm

Content question if anyone can help me out:

Are trusts typically modifiable/revocable by a settlor? In my outline from the lecture, it says they are typically irrevocable absent trust provisions to the contrary. However, in the checkpoint quiz, it stated "Generally, unless the trust instrument specifically provides that a trust is irrevocable and/or cannot be modified, an inter vivos trust may be modified or revoked by the settlor." Considering these two things say exactly the opposite thing, which is right? I'm not aware of the choice of law provisions for Kaplan Bar Review :lol:

Edit: I must have heard the lecturer wrong. The Kaplan book says a trust is revocable/amendable by the settlor absent trust provisions to the contrary. I'm leaving this comment though in the event the lecturer misspoke (which is possible considering 70% of people guessed the same contradicting, incorrect answer as me).

Edit 2: Turns out the difference varies based on whether the trust was created before or after the adoption of the UTC (the common law approach is to presume irrevocability).

I really wish the lecturers would just give us all the information we need to know upfront, even if it made the lectures twice as long.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:05 pm

Maybe it varies by state, but my bar notes also say, under "modification of the trust by the settlor" : "Once a valid trust has been created, the settlor may: modify the trust only to the extent that he has reserved the right to do so (though if trust was result of mistake / fraud etc, it can be rescinded or reformed)."

My bar points book is consistent and also says: "Once a valid trust has been created, the settlor may modify the trust only to the extent allowed by the terms of the trust." And: "traditionally, and in [state], once a valid trust has been created, it terminates according to its own terms and generally cannot be terminated before that by the settlor, unless the power to revoke was expressly retained."

In other words, my understanding is that the default rule is that the settlor can't modify or revoke the trust.

Maybe time to do the "ask an expert" thing?

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:31 pm

I've been consistently around 70-80% on MBE questions since the midterm, and I went like 26/50 today. A lot of the missed questions were due to reading comprehension problems/falling for traps. Maybe I should force myself to take a 24 or 48 hour break. My brain is failing me.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:27 pm

despina wrote:Maybe it varies by state, but my bar notes also say, under "modification of the trust by the settlor" : "Once a valid trust has been created, the settlor may: modify the trust only to the extent that he has reserved the right to do so (though if trust was result of mistake / fraud etc, it can be rescinded or reformed)."

My bar points book is consistent and also says: "Once a valid trust has been created, the settlor may modify the trust only to the extent allowed by the terms of the trust." And: "traditionally, and in [state], once a valid trust has been created, it terminates according to its own terms and generally cannot be terminated before that by the settlor, unless the power to revoke was expressly retained."

In other words, my understanding is that the default rule is that the settlor can't modify or revoke the trust.

Maybe time to do the "ask an expert" thing?


That's really odd. Under the exact same sections of both my Outline Materials and Bar Points, it says "Unless the terms of a trust expressly provide that the trust is irrevocable, the settlor may revoke or amend a trust created after the effective date of the adoption of the UTC" (and then adds "Under common law, the irrevocability of a trust is presumed unless right of revocation is reserved)."

So we have "revocable unless expressly restricted" stated as the rule in (1) my (IA) Bar Points book; (2) my Outline Materials; (3) and as the stated Qbank answer (for two separate questions on my checkpoint quiz) and conversely stated as "irrevocable unless expressly stated" in (1) your Bar Points book; (2) your Outline materials; (3) the lecture.

Differing books by jurisdiction would make sense--but it's odd to me that the lecture and Qbank wouldn't match up even. Do you think the Qbank varies by jurisdiction too? Do you remember if you had any questions speaking to the revocability in the Checkpoint Quiz?

I'll let you know if I find anything out about it.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:32 pm

My understanding is that Qbank refers just to the MBE Q's, and the checkpoint quizzes should line up with the law specific to the jurisdiction. Mine are based on old state essay questions. So maybe there was a mistake in your checkpoint quiz? My checkpoint quiz didn't have a question directly on point for this.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby pike08706 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:41 pm

I've been primarily doing QBank MBE questions and not using the MBE book and am scoring around 50-60% with regularity on the online MBE questions. I really hope people are right the the MBE purple book questions are easier to score a higher proficiency on, I plan on using them as catch up and review on the subjects already covered. Getting 50-60% on the actually MBE isn't gonna cut it. Ugh, my brain hurts.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:53 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
despina wrote:Maybe it varies by state, but my bar notes also say, under "modification of the trust by the settlor" : "Once a valid trust has been created, the settlor may: modify the trust only to the extent that he has reserved the right to do so (though if trust was result of mistake / fraud etc, it can be rescinded or reformed)."

My bar points book is consistent and also says: "Once a valid trust has been created, the settlor may modify the trust only to the extent allowed by the terms of the trust." And: "traditionally, and in [state], once a valid trust has been created, it terminates according to its own terms and generally cannot be terminated before that by the settlor, unless the power to revoke was expressly retained."

In other words, my understanding is that the default rule is that the settlor can't modify or revoke the trust.

Maybe time to do the "ask an expert" thing?


That's really odd. Under the exact same sections of both my Outline Materials and Bar Points, it says "Unless the terms of a trust expressly provide that the trust is irrevocable, the settlor may revoke or amend a trust created after the effective date of the adoption of the UTC" (and then adds "Under common law, the irrevocability of a trust is presumed unless right of revocation is reserved)."

So we have "revocable unless expressly restricted" stated as the rule in (1) my (IA) Bar Points book; (2) my Outline Materials; (3) and as the stated Qbank answer (for two separate questions on my checkpoint quiz) and conversely stated as "irrevocable unless expressly stated" in (1) your Bar Points book; (2) your Outline materials; (3) the lecture.

Differing books by jurisdiction would make sense--but it's odd to me that the lecture and Qbank wouldn't match up even. Do you think the Qbank varies by jurisdiction too? Do you remember if you had any questions speaking to the revocability in the Checkpoint Quiz?

I'll let you know if I find anything out about it.


QBanks only tests National MBE specific stuff, so it would apply those standards. Your subject specific Quiz's should be specific to your jurisdiction. On an essay, I believe you'll apply whatever is in your outline NOT QBANKS, for state specific essay subjects.

Make sense?

pike08706
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby pike08706 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:57 pm

BTW, I think that robinhoodOO is secretly Chris Fromm. Providing help and secretly gauging how the course is going.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:12 pm

pike08706 wrote:BTW, I think that robinhoodOO is secretly Chris Fromm. Providing help and secretly gauging how the course is going.


Nah, I've complained too much about Kaplan in this forum. They'd can me...However, I've been told by my boss I would make a good prosecutor (and Fromm was a prosecutor) :wink:

I prefer family law and bankruptcy law, though :?

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:12 pm

despina wrote:My understanding is that Qbank refers just to the MBE Q's, and the checkpoint quizzes should line up with the law specific to the jurisdiction. Mine are based on old state essay questions. So maybe there was a mistake in your checkpoint quiz? My checkpoint quiz didn't have a question directly on point for this.


robinhoodOO wrote:
QBanks only tests National MBE specific stuff, so it would apply those standards. Your subject specific Quiz's should be specific to your jurisdiction. On an essay, I believe you'll apply whatever is in your outline NOT QBANKS, for state specific essay subjects.

Make sense?


Alright, thanks! That makes sense since my books and my Checkpoint Quiz each aligned. Now I'm just concerned the lectures do not always accord with my state (since that is all I'm really relying on with regards to what content to study).

Are you guys studying all of the content covered in the books or just focusing on what is presented in the lecture? I am really only looking to to the books when I need clarification of something. I recognize there is a lot of extra stuff in there, but I'm already overwhelmed trying to memorize what is covered in my lecture outlines--I think it would be futile to try to add any more information to remember.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:16 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
despina wrote:My understanding is that Qbank refers just to the MBE Q's, and the checkpoint quizzes should line up with the law specific to the jurisdiction. Mine are based on old state essay questions. So maybe there was a mistake in your checkpoint quiz? My checkpoint quiz didn't have a question directly on point for this.


robinhoodOO wrote:
QBanks only tests National MBE specific stuff, so it would apply those standards. Your subject specific Quiz's should be specific to your jurisdiction. On an essay, I believe you'll apply whatever is in your outline NOT QBANKS, for state specific essay subjects.

Make sense?



Are you guys studying all of the content covered in the books or just focusing on what is presented in the lecture? I am really only looking to to the books when I need clarification of something. I recognize there is a lot of extra stuff in there, but I'm already overwhelmed trying to memorize what is covered in my lecture outlines--I think it would be futile to try to add any more information to remember.


It depends on the subject, but mostly the lecture stuff (I'd say 80-85%). I've had to supplement with the outlines when I see MBE questions on issues not discussed in the lectures (i.e. Double Jeopardy).

In CA, I've only found a single essay that had significant issues which weren't covered in the lecture, and it was a strange separation of powers issue regarding an executive order. Praying to god I don't see an essay like that...

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:33 pm

What's really killing me is that we still have areas that aren't covered going into next Wednesday. I've talked to all my buddies doing Barbri and they're done with lectures and have been for a bit...WTF?!

dat209
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby dat209 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:37 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:What's really killing me is that we still have areas that aren't covered going into next Wednesday. I've talked to all my buddies doing Barbri and they're done with lectures and have been for a bit...WTF?!

I noticed this too and worked to get all the lectures done this week, and will focus on essays and review next week.

Speaking of which.... one of my last lectures, which I did today was secured transactions. I thought it was pretty straight forward and simple until it came time for the checkpoint quiz.... and then I got a 35% on it because basically none of the questions had anything to do with the lecture. Looks like other people bombed it too based on the results.

Also did poorly (~60%) on the NY Professional Responsibility Checkpoint Quiz for similar reasons.... really really really frustrated.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:51 pm

dat209 wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:What's really killing me is that we still have areas that aren't covered going into next Wednesday. I've talked to all my buddies doing Barbri and they're done with lectures and have been for a bit...WTF?!

I noticed this too and worked to get all the lectures done this week, and will focus on essays and review next week.

Speaking of which.... one of my last lectures, which I did today was secured transactions. I thought it was pretty straight forward and simple until it came time for the checkpoint quiz.... and then I got a 35% on it because basically none of the questions had anything to do with the lecture. Looks like other people bombed it too based on the results.


I've had that happen to me various times--hence why I panicked that the lectures weren't covering everything! I just supplement my outline whenever I see questions I don't know, but it is still pretty stressful.




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