Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:46 pm

This might vary from state to state, but at least in my state, Kaplan is insisting that we have a clear rule statement at the beginning, and a repeat of the conclusion at the end for each issue. Even if we analyze it perfectly, missing these things will lose you like half the possible points.

I don't think you have to literally memorize the rule statement word-for-word from your outline, but you do have to get an accurate and clear statement of the general idea of the rule. This is hard for me to remember to do because most of my law school profs emphasized that'd we'd get zero credit for this -- it was referred to as "copying off your outline" -- and credit only for the analysis and argument.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:08 pm

despina wrote:This might vary from state to state, but at least in my state, Kaplan is insisting that we have a clear rule statement at the beginning, and a repeat of the conclusion at the end for each issue. Even if we analyze it perfectly, missing these things will lose you like half the possible points.

I don't think you have to literally memorize the rule statement word-for-word from your outline, but you do have to get an accurate and clear statement of the general idea of the rule. This is hard for me to remember to do because most of my law school profs emphasized that'd we'd get zero credit for this -- it was referred to as "copying off your outline" -- and credit only for the analysis and argument.


Just the way it is...It'll be the same for brief/memo writing in practice. You almost always state your issue as a conclusion (it's the most powerful and shows your position immediately) and then state the law (usually a short paragraph as your rule(s)) and then jump into the analysis and finish by restating your conclusion.

It can be foreign at first, but if you practice enough essays it'll start to make sense.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:29 pm

This Will and Estate lecturer's whole "I'm going to just mention this topic and move on because you should read all about it in your outline" is obnoxious. It's one thing if he doesn't go point by point on Kaplan's outline, but making us go to the book to learn all about various topics is silly. It defeats the whole point of the lecture.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:32 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:This Will and Estate lecturer's whole "I'm going to just mention this topic and move on because you should read all about it in your outline" is obnoxious. It's one thing if he doesn't go point by point on Kaplan's outline, but making us go to the book to learn all about various topics is silly. It defeats the whole point of the lecture.


Wait? You're doing wills and estates today? WTF? You're in CA, right? I have Agency and Partnerships today and Wills/Trusts on 7/9 & 7/10...Are you working ahead or are the schedules different

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:31 pm

On a tangent, the Agency and Partnership lecturer is pretty annoying too. He uses examples and hypos first, and then provides the rule. WTF, guy?! I didn't know the cart went before the horse...

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:53 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:This Will and Estate lecturer's whole "I'm going to just mention this topic and move on because you should read all about it in your outline" is obnoxious. It's one thing if he doesn't go point by point on Kaplan's outline, but making us go to the book to learn all about various topics is silly. It defeats the whole point of the lecture.


Wait? You're doing wills and estates today? WTF? You're in CA, right? I have Agency and Partnerships today and Wills/Trusts on 7/9 & 7/10...Are you working ahead or are the schedules different


Nope, I'm in Iowa! I have Agency and Partnerships on 7/9.

I have noticed that many of our schedules differ slightly, which I find odd. I panicked at first thinking I was behind a lot of you guys (which, to be fair, I almost certainly am anyways) until I realized the classes in each state must not align exactly.

But have fun with Wills/Estates. While the lectures are short and the content is pretty straightforward, he frequently just refers you to the outline instead of giving you the information himself (and when I say outline, I mean the actual Kaplan book). I don't even dislike the professor--it's just an annoying approach when he does it.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:55 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:On a tangent, the Agency and Partnership lecturer is pretty annoying too. He uses examples and hypos first, and then provides the rule. WTF, guy?! I didn't know the cart went before the horse...


I hate this! Maybe there is some pedagogical advantage to the approach (as I've seen others do it), but it is of no help to me.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:00 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:This Will and Estate lecturer's whole "I'm going to just mention this topic and move on because you should read all about it in your outline" is obnoxious. It's one thing if he doesn't go point by point on Kaplan's outline, but making us go to the book to learn all about various topics is silly. It defeats the whole point of the lecture.


Wait? You're doing wills and estates today? WTF? You're in CA, right? I have Agency and Partnerships today and Wills/Trusts on 7/9 & 7/10...Are you working ahead or are the schedules different


Nope, I'm in Iowa! I have Agency and Partnerships on 7/9.

I have noticed that many of our schedules differ slightly, which I find odd. I panicked at first thinking I was behind a lot of you guys (which, to be fair, I almost certainly am anyways) until I realized the classes in each state must not align exactly.

But have fun with Wills/Estates. While the lectures are short and the content is pretty straightforward, he frequently just refers you to the outline instead of giving you the information himself (and when I say outline, I mean the actual Kaplan book). I don't even dislike the professor--it's just an annoying approach when he does it.


haha; I grew up in Iowa. Did you go to Drake for LS? Did my undergrad at Simpson College before moving out to CA. I'm telling you, we're long-lost half-brothers or something...My dad apparently got around, so don't try convincing me otherwise

Anyway, I don't dislike him either...Just annoying as shit that he starts with hypos and then gives the rule. This isn't a law class...I don't understand the point of his approach

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:48 pm

Wills and Estates here today as well. We have a checkpoint quiz scheduled for today. WTF? Is anyone actually bothering with this? Wills and Estates is only an essay subject ... not understanding the point of this, at least as opposed to doing practice essays or something else more productive.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:51 pm

Hmm, in my state we have checkpoint quizzes for all the essay-only subjects. I do think it's helpful at least for having an idea of how much of the info I've retained (usually, not much) and seeing several issues put together in a more elaborate hypo.

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anjmissy
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby anjmissy » Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:30 pm

Sometimes these essay graders are just inconsistent..did a con law essay..one question was due process..I lay out the elements and apply it to the facts..grader comments and states I don't say what the purpose of due process is ..seriously...they grade way too harsh

Ok..I'm done with my rant..in other news I finally scored in the green for the pa performance test..it only took me going over time by 15 mins to do it ..when I stick to the time I always score in the yellow

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:53 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:This Will and Estate lecturer's whole "I'm going to just mention this topic and move on because you should read all about it in your outline" is obnoxious. It's one thing if he doesn't go point by point on Kaplan's outline, but making us go to the book to learn all about various topics is silly. It defeats the whole point of the lecture.


Wait? You're doing wills and estates today? WTF? You're in CA, right? I have Agency and Partnerships today and Wills/Trusts on 7/9 & 7/10...Are you working ahead or are the schedules different


Nope, I'm in Iowa! I have Agency and Partnerships on 7/9.

I have noticed that many of our schedules differ slightly, which I find odd. I panicked at first thinking I was behind a lot of you guys (which, to be fair, I almost certainly am anyways) until I realized the classes in each state must not align exactly.

But have fun with Wills/Estates. While the lectures are short and the content is pretty straightforward, he frequently just refers you to the outline instead of giving you the information himself (and when I say outline, I mean the actual Kaplan book). I don't even dislike the professor--it's just an annoying approach when he does it.


haha; I grew up in Iowa. Did you go to Drake for LS? Did my undergrad at Simpson College before moving out to CA. I'm telling you, we're long-lost half-brothers or something...My dad apparently got around, so don't try convincing me otherwise

Anyway, I don't dislike him either...Just annoying as shit that he starts with hypos and then gives the rule. This isn't a law class...I don't understand the point of his approach


Haha that's crazy! Who knows...maybe I'll have to grill my mother about it.

And yep, graduated from Drake!

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:59 pm

Am I doing something wrong if every QBank quiz I take is not at all random? For instance, I just set up a 33 Question quiz with just Con Law and Civ Pro questions and the first 15 questions have been all Con Law (in the order of the outline no less). This happens (to some extent) with virtually every quiz I take. Considering I doubt the bar examiners will be so kind as to arrange questions in order of bar prep coverage, is there any advice for making it more random (short of just including more topics)?

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:46 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:Am I doing something wrong if every QBank quiz I take is not at all random? For instance, I just set up a 33 Question quiz with just Con Law and Civ Pro questions and the first 15 questions have been all Con Law (in the order of the outline no less). This happens (to some extent) with virtually every quiz I take. Considering I doubt the bar examiners will be so kind as to arrange questions in order of bar prep coverage, is there any advice for making it more random (short of just including more topics)?


Ya everytime I do a set of 33 mixed, there are usually 15 or 16 of one certain subject. On my last one, I had like 15 Property questions in a row.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:52 am

Weird. This has never happened to me.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:06 pm

Aaaand it's time for despina's Kaplan rant of the day: apparently I'm supposed to just know that "the growing of olives and making of olive oil is the type of performance that can be considered unique (such as the services of a doctor, lawyer, or other professional whose own individual skill is bargained for)." Nothing to indicate that in the question. What? Sorry I didn't spend my 2L summer interning at my local olive grove acquiring all this random specialized knowledge...

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:55 pm

Trusts and Conflict of Laws today, Agency and Partnership tomorrow. I want to die. Several of my weakest areas back to back to back.

It's tempting to just skip Conflict of Laws because it hasn't shown up in several cycles. But, with my luck ...

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:14 pm

odoylerulez wrote:Trusts and Conflict of Laws today, Agency and Partnership tomorrow. I want to die. Several of my weakest areas back to back to back.

It's tempting to just skip Conflict of Laws because it hasn't shown up in several cycles. But, with my luck ...


Oh; you're in for a treat w/Partnerships & Agency. The guy's Bar Notes are annoying. He gives hypos first, then the rule (which is to be filled in within the hypo)...Constantly directs you to the outline (Kaplan book) too.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:19 pm

When discussing a Bar Application question:

"The Bar Examiners wouldn't give you something that would be so hard to figure out--it would be more specific."

On the provided outline: From the July 2004 Multistate Essay Exam

Now I don't know what to believe!

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:23 pm

Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:37 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.


Yes, for real.

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:42 pm

despina wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.


Yes, for real.


Idk, one time in Torts, out professor put up two fractions on the board and asked us to multiply them together and I'll admit, I forgot what to do there lol

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:09 pm

LAW813FL wrote:
despina wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.


Yes, for real.


Idk, one time in Torts, out professor put up two fractions on the board and asked us to multiply them together and I'll admit, I forgot what to do there lol


I was forced to give a 10 minute presentation on reducing future damages to to their present value...Had to actually calculate the total future damages, analyzing the various facts/consideration, and then use multiple interest rates based on 3 different hypos, etc., etc. Most math I had done in years and it pretty much fucking sucked.

I don't think the prof liked me, but I still got the fucking Witkin Award...Eat my shorts, Remedies

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a male human
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby a male human » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:11 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.

Doesn't make me laugh because that "joke" got old the first time.

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shredderrrrrr
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby shredderrrrrr » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:11 pm

LAW813FL wrote:
despina wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Also, I love how much they reassure us we won't have to do math. As if having to subtract $20,000 from $50,000 to determine how much is left in an estate or dividing $30,000 three ways is going to make me freak out come test day.

I mean, I know this field isn't necessarily the most mathematically driven, but come on--anyone who has graduated from fucking law school knows at least a passing amount of math. The whole "we're lawyers--we don't know how to do math!" always makes me laugh.


Yes, for real.


Idk, one time in Torts, out professor put up two fractions on the board and asked us to multiply them together and I'll admit, I forgot what to do there lol


Haha fair enough. I'll admit that when it comes to fractions, I'm pretty slow as well. If the question had an answer of 1/3 an estate needing to be divided equally amongst, say, four people, I can see why bar examiners wouldn't want to have the option choices as fractions--I imagine quite a few of us fucking up even something so simple. But if the question had the actual dollar amount of said remaining estate at, say, $100,000, I think the people who guess any number other than $25,000 deserve to lose the points.

I only brought this up because the lecturer reassured us not to worry about having to do math after a problem that required us to subtract $25,000 from $50,000. All I could think was "THANK GOD."




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