Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:55 pm

odoylerulez wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
odoylerulez wrote:
despina wrote:
odoylerulez wrote:Actually, I just seem to consistently have my own version of what "reasonable" means in any context, and, any time an answer hinges on it, it's a crapshoot. Any advice for these types of questions?


I was just saying this to someone yesterday. Apparently I got through law school by being able to argue my own definition of reasonable, and analogizing to cases we had read together. On the MBE, I just have to read people's minds? I'm finding it especially challenging with crim pro with respect to reasonable suspicion, reasonable expectation of privacy, etc.

My rule of thumb for "reasonable escape" is -- do I have to put my physical safety at risk (jump out a third story window) or greatly embarrass myself (run outside naked)? If not, it's probably reasonable. Has worked so far.


I just answered one where a lawyer woman was effectively trapped in her apartment because a group of guys was harrassing her when she came home from work, and one of the guys told her something like "she better not come back out." She was very frightened and she felt she couldn't leave her apartment and stayed there for several hours.

Her only two means of escape were the front door and an old, rusted ladder (fire escape, basically) that went to the ground from the second-floor window. She also felt it would be embarrassing if her neighbors saw her climbing down the window while she was dressed up. Without anything more, I assumed she wasn't falsely imprisoned. I assumed there would be more facts if the author wanted us to assume it was unreasonable -- but, I guess that's what the authors were going for when they mentioned the ladder was old. I didn't think that made it automatically unsafe or anything without more facts. I thought the embarrassment was irrelevant because that wasn't objectively reasonable (not exactly being asked to leave naked or anything -- and, she's in her apartment, so why can't she just change clothes?). I was wrong. Meh.


I had this same question today. Just remember embarrassment can be enough...Don't look outside the 4 corners of these questions. (for example, she could have reasonably changed her clothes, etc.). They just wanted to see that you saw the exception.

Dumb? Yes. But that's what you gotta do...


The embarrassment has to be reasonable though, right? For example, if it were in the facts that the woman had a back door to her apartment, which was in working order and was safe, but she refused to use it because she subjectively believed that if she walked through the back door of the apartment, it would bring her ten years of bad luck, that surely wouldn't be false imprisonment.

It seems to me that you almost have to look outside of the four corners of the question on some of these to figure out whether something is reasonable or unreasonable. Maybe not quite as much on this one, but it seems to be a recurring thing. I always assume that every fact can matter -- here, I thought it was relevant that the writer of the question chose to say that she was locked in her apartment as opposed to, say, a second-story restroom with a window.


I believe being subjected to embarrassment/ridicule is constitutes unreasonable means as a matter of law if it's undue. Reasonable means of escape is better defined as: Not likely to cause harm, injury, or "undue embarrassment." Thus, if it causes harm, injury, or undue embarrassment, it's automatically unreasonable (Which could be subjective). Kind of a misnomer, I suppose.

Does that help?

Anyway, I think another poster said this, but if you can narrow it down to 2 based on a known exception/wrinkle/issue, then my rule of thumb is to ultimately side on the 'affirmative' if I think it's a reasonableness issue.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:59 am

robinhoodOO wrote:I believe being subjected to embarrassment/ridicule is constitutes unreasonable means as a matter of law if it's undue. Reasonable means of escape is better defined as: Not likely to cause harm, injury, or "undue embarrassment." Thus, if it causes harm, injury, or undue embarrassment, it's automatically unreasonable (Which could be subjective). Kind of a misnomer, I suppose.

Does that help?


Maybe we've gone too far down the rabbit hole with this... but doesn't "undue" just mean "unreasonable" and we're back to where we started? With the question of "how much embarrassment are we expected to put up with to escape" and the answer is "who knows, so hopefully the actual MBE will give us a more clear fact pattern than this stupid one?"

odoylerulez
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby odoylerulez » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:16 am

I think the embarrassment issue in that fact pattern might have been less significant than the ladder, anyway. I'm thinking the author threw the embarrassment stuff in there to help push the reader toward concluding that false imprisonment existed -- taking the entire situation as a collective whole.

I don't know. Weird question to me.

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SiRR
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby SiRR » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:50 am

It's gotten to the point where I literally don't even understand how you can format a Word document this way...

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SiRR
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby SiRR » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:06 pm

I'd also like to add that from time to time, the CA PR lecturer sounds exactly like Pam Poovey.

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:40 pm

"A car salesman bought a new house for he and his family to live in..."

Come on. Their proofreader isn't even trying.

Geaux12
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Geaux12 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:12 pm

How is everyone using the post-MBE videos? Are you taking notes? Updating flash cards?

fadedsunrise
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby fadedsunrise » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:18 pm

Post MBE videos? o.O

Been making flashcards for the subjects that lend themselves to flashcards, like evidence, civ pro, professional responsibility. Been reading and re-reading the outline for the rest, probably not going to actually make outlines because there's just too many.

Has anyone gotten supplemental materials beyond what Kaplan gives us? I'm seriously considering getting Emanuels Strategies and Tactics for the MBE because the questions seem to be asking for leaps that my brain doesn't always follow. Any idea if that's good? Or if Kaplan's making the questions harder than they actually are?

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:51 pm

fadedsunrise wrote:Post MBE videos? o.O

Been making flashcards for the subjects that lend themselves to flashcards, like evidence, civ pro, professional responsibility. Been reading and re-reading the outline for the rest, probably not going to actually make outlines because there's just too many.

Has anyone gotten supplemental materials beyond what Kaplan gives us? I'm seriously considering getting Emanuels Strategies and Tactics for the MBE because the questions seem to be asking for leaps that my brain doesn't always follow. Any idea if that's good? Or if Kaplan's making the questions harder than they actually are?


I believe Geaux means the post-midterm videos. And ya I am going to just update my flashcards with rules I didn't know.

Also, for other supplements, I bough Barbri's "Florida Testing" book from this year because I've heard Barbri does a good job with Florida stuff. Other than that, I bought adaptibar. Adaptibar always makes me feel better after struggling through Kaplan's wordy MBE questions.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:01 pm

despina wrote:"A car salesman bought a new house for he and his family to live in..."

Come on. Their proofreader isn't even trying.


Part of me thinks they're trying too hard to make them more difficult, which comes across as "wordy," which results in errors.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:02 pm

LAW813FL wrote:Adaptibar always makes me feel better after struggling through Kaplan's wordy MBE questions.


^ Basically this. Oh, and, this again.

Florence Night
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Florence Night » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:43 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
LAW813FL wrote:Adaptibar always makes me feel better after struggling through Kaplan's wordy MBE questions.


^ Basically this. Oh, and, this again.


Speaking of which, anyone know if the questions from the mid term MBE are Kaplan's or real? I assume Kaplan's? So maybe *slightly* harder than the real thing..?

Also, Kaplan says to add 15 to your raw score as their rule of thumb for getting a scaled score. Wondering if they mean 15 added to your percent correct x 190 (as it is for the real deal), or if they mean your number correct out of 200, perhaps to account for their slightly more difficult questions.

It's not even July so I feel dumb for even wotrying about this yet, but...

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:46 pm

robinhoodOO wrote:
LAW813FL wrote:Adaptibar always makes me feel better after struggling through Kaplan's wordy MBE questions.


^ Basically this. Oh, and, this again.


Fill me in. Are the real Qs dramatically easier? Less ambiguous?

Those of you doing adaptibar, do you think it's worth it? Are you doing those questions instead of / in addition to Qbank? Do you use the flashcards? I'm thinking of buying just the flashcards because Kaplan's are such crap (half the time the prompt on the card doesn't make clear what it's asking... urgh) and making my own seems like not a great use of time at this point.

Florence Night
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Florence Night » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:53 pm

despina wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
LAW813FL wrote:Adaptibar always makes me feel better after struggling through Kaplan's wordy MBE questions.


^ Basically this. Oh, and, this again.


Fill me in. Are the real Qs dramatically easier? Less ambiguous?

Those of you doing adaptibar, do you think it's worth it? Are you doing those questions instead of / in addition to Qbank? Do you use the flashcards? I'm thinking of buying just the flashcards because Kaplan's are such crap (half the time the prompt on the card doesn't make clear what it's asking... urgh) and making my own seems like not a great use of time at this point.


I can recommend the critical pass flashcards. I've used them quite a bit. I feel weird because I have the whole kaplan course but I really only use them for watching the lectures and using the q bank.

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robinhoodOO
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby robinhoodOO » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:17 am

despina wrote:
robinhoodOO wrote:
LAW813FL wrote:Adaptibar always makes me feel better after struggling through Kaplan's wordy MBE questions.


^ Basically this. Oh, and, this again.


Fill me in. Are the real Qs dramatically easier? Less ambiguous?

Those of you doing adaptibar, do you think it's worth it? Are you doing those questions instead of / in addition to Qbank? Do you use the flashcards? I'm thinking of buying just the flashcards because Kaplan's are such crap (half the time the prompt on the card doesn't make clear what it's asking... urgh) and making my own seems like not a great use of time at this point.


I wouldn't say they're easier in the same way I wouldn't say Kaplan MBE's are harder. They are, however...Er, more clear. They still test your knowledge in a very similar way, just without the added wordiness and red herrings. Example: I've read numerous Kaplan Q's and I tend to spot more than one issue in many of them (often 2 or 3), but then that issue isn't what the Q is asking about. You don't get the same fluff issues and wordiness in most non-simulated Q's (from my experience, at least).

Simply put, the National Conferences knows what it's doing, other simulated Q writers? Not so much. I'm doing roughly 30-50 Kap questions a day, but mostly because that's what they have as the "assignments." I'm definitely shifting away from this in July.

One last thing: If you're doing selecting specific subject areas within a subject to do their recommended Q's, keep in mind you're often doing 33 Q's in an area which might only have 2-5 MBE questions on the Bar. Remember which subjects are the 'points' areas, and be prepared to divide your attention appropriately down the stretch. That's my plan, anyway :)

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:19 am

I don't know about the Kaplan mid term, but I assume they were Kaplans, and not real, because they seemed like Kaplan. I think Fromm said that on a scale of 1 - 10, Kaplan test tons of 8's and 9's, where on the bar we will see more 5's and 6's. that is how I feel adaptibar and Kaplan compare, at least. I hope the mid-term was Kaplans, maybe ill do 200 Adaptibar MC and see if I score higher.

Geaux12
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Geaux12 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:36 am

I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

And I'd love to hear more about the BarBri book, while we're at it.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ilovetheatre » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:07 am

Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.

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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Geaux12 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:22 am

ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


What advantages do you see in the Emanuel's book?

despina
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby despina » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:31 am

ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


Too easy compared to the real thing? Do you think the exam questions have actually gotten harder lately? Or did you just wish you had practiced with harder questions to increase your confidence?

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:40 am

Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

And I'd love to hear more about the BarBri book, while we're at it.


The book is just Florida subjects. I managed to find the Summer'15/Winter 16 Florida Testing book which has over 100 Florida MC questions for each Florida subject and some essays and a couple Florida practice tests. I probably didn't need it, but I got it for $150 so I thought it was a pretty good deal.

ilovetheatre
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby ilovetheatre » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:17 am

Geaux12 wrote:
ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


What advantages do you see in the Emanuel's book?

The questions in the book are all available with Adaptibar, but I don't think Adaptibar is worth the price. If you want to see retired MBE Qs, you can get the book for cheap (older editions are fine).

despina wrote:
ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


Too easy compared to the real thing? Do you think the exam questions have actually gotten harder lately? Or did you just wish you had practiced with harder questions to increase your confidence?

I had Kaplan when I passed my exam and found the Kaplan MBE Qs to be most like the actual exam questions. I think using retired questions gives people a false since of confidence. Easy and straightforward MBE Qs might make bar study less stressful, but I think you're hurting yourself if you abandon Kaplan MBE Qs because they're confusing or too long or take too long to answer.

Florence Night
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby Florence Night » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:58 am

ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:
ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


What advantages do you see in the Emanuel's book?

The questions in the book are all available with Adaptibar, but I don't think Adaptibar is worth the price. If you want to see retired MBE Qs, you can get the book for cheap (older editions are fine).

despina wrote:
ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


Too easy compared to the real thing? Do you think the exam questions have actually gotten harder lately? Or did you just wish you had practiced with harder questions to increase your confidence?

I had Kaplan when I passed my exam and found the Kaplan MBE Qs to be most like the actual exam questions. I think using retired questions gives people a false since of confidence. Easy and straightforward MBE Qs might make bar study less stressful, but I think you're hurting yourself if you abandon Kaplan MBE Qs because they're confusing or too long or take too long to answer.


Well that doesn't really make sense unless the questions have gotten harder or adaptibar is only using the relatively easy ones.

FWIW, I haven't used adaptibar but I've used Emanuel and those questions are a little easier than Kaplan's, for sure.

LAW813FL
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby LAW813FL » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:32 pm

ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:
ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


What advantages do you see in the Emanuel's book?

The questions in the book are all available with Adaptibar, but I don't think Adaptibar is worth the price. If you want to see retired MBE Qs, you can get the book for cheap (older editions are fine).

despina wrote:
ilovetheatre wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've heard of Adaptibar in the past, but never really looked into it. I gather it's a collection of realistic, reasonable-in-length questions that an actual human being can complete in the time allotted on the Bar exam?

I found the retired MBE Qs far too easy compared to the real thing. They're fine if you want some extra questions, but I'd suggest getting Strategies and Tactics for the MBE instead of Adaptibar.


Too easy compared to the real thing? Do you think the exam questions have actually gotten harder lately? Or did you just wish you had practiced with harder questions to increase your confidence?

I had Kaplan when I passed my exam and found the Kaplan MBE Qs to be most like the actual exam questions. I think using retired questions gives people a false since of confidence. Easy and straightforward MBE Qs might make bar study less stressful, but I think you're hurting yourself if you abandon Kaplan MBE Qs because they're confusing or too long or take too long to answer.

Ya I think it would be a good idea to supplement with adaptibar, but not to abandon the Kaplan MBE Q's. They both still test your knowledge of the law in multiple choice format so they are bound to be helpful. Maybe just make sure to use Kaplan when you are doing some sort of testing conditions like 33 per hour or practice tests and just use Adaptibar to mess around with.

Thats what I've been doing, anyway.

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SiRR
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Re: Kaplan Bar Review Hangout - July 2015 Exam

Postby SiRR » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:57 pm

Hey, all. Need your thoughts/advice. How necessary/urgent are the hardcopy books? I'm moving across country tomorrow and would rather not bring an extra bag just for all the Kaplan books. Do you think they are critical, or can I easily get away without them at all? Thanks very much, I appreciate it.




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